Israeli soldiers kidnapped, and Isarael is now shelling

[falxori 0]

Quote

Wow how soon we forget


Did you forget about the mysteries explosion that happened on a beach that killed yet more inocent Palestinians.

a. Israel's fault in that incident is very doubtful
b. what the hell does this has to do with Hezbollah's actions in northern Israel?
the attack from Lebanon WAS unprovoked.

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[livendive 8]

Quote

Don't forget the beads...

'ooh...Look at the pretty beads, tell you what Kimosabi, you give me Montana and I'll give you the pretty beads......Yes?'

'Umm Yes.'

'OK Soldier you can take the gun away from the childs head now, and give them some wiskey!'

I don't by any means condone the methods white people used to take the land, I'm just pointing out that peaceful negotiations between the cultures since then have produced far better results than violence would have.

The current conflict between "Palestinians" and "Israelis" doesn't make much sense to me. Who stole the land from whom and what are the evidentiary signs of such theft? Can the Palestinians show that a) they previously possessed the land and b) they no longer posses it? How so?

Why can't we just take the entire landmass in question and call it "Paljudahstine" and allow muslims and jews to live anywhere they want in the region as long as they remain peaceful? If the people over there (of all faiths) would quit trying to establish their own society founded in religious discrimination, peace would follow quickly after. Instead of having a Jewish government (Israel) and a Muslim government (PA), the Paljudahstinian government would be freely elected by the populus with a mandate to simultaneously maintain a secular stance yet respect the freedom of the governed to privately pursue their own faiths.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[tbrown 26]

I think the world right now is in a similar state to the 1930s, when the Second World War had in fact already begun in places like China and with Hitler's adventures in the Rhineland, Austria, and the Sudetenland.

The war's already started, the Muslims started it. Let's just acknowledge it and ge it over with by whatever means necessary. Like we did with Japan - saved a lot of lives, including japanese lives, though they'll never admit it.

That or go on believing in "peace in our time".

I'm not happy about this, not at all, it truly sucks. But it's already begun, so what else is there to do ??

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[falxori 0]

Quote

Instead of having a Jewish government (Israel) and a Muslim government (PA), the Paljudahstinian government would be freely elected by the populus with a mandate to simultaneously maintain a secular stance yet respect the freedom of the governed to privately pursue their own faiths

History has shown that putting two different nations (and these two are VERY different) in a forced joint government is not a good idea and it doesn't last long (in the good scenario of czeckoslovakia) or end up in a bloody civil war (Yugoslavia),
the only valid solution is two states for the two nations. when the palestinians accept that instead of wanting it all, there will be peace.

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[livendive 8]

Quote

History has shown that putting two different nations (and these two are VERY different) in a forced joint government is not a good idea and it doesn't last long (in the good scenario of czeckoslovakia) or end up in a bloody civil war (Yugoslavia),
the only valid solution is two states for the two nations. when the palestinians accept that instead of wanting it all, there will be peace.

Do you currently have any Muslim neighbors of Arab descent who live peacefully among Jews in Israel? Are there Jews who could live a similarly peaceful existence among followers of the other Semitic religions? If all were to discard the notion that a government needs to be theologically biased, perhaps peaceful cohabitation of the the disputed lands would be feasible.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[Richards 0]

Quote

Christianity is a religion of peace Get slapped turn the other cheek and all that. Islam says if someone wrongs you have to make sure they do not do that again.

Should you not try turning the cheek initially and resort to deterrence only as a last resort?

Richards

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[Bifidus 0]

In Reply To
Christianity and Islam are both religions of violent fervor. On the other hand, I don't know of any war or campaign ever fought in the name of Buddha.

The civil war in Sri Lanka

[falxori 0]

Quote

Do you currently have any Muslim neighbors of Arab descent who live peacefully among Jews in Israel?

Yes. arabs (and others) that were within Israel's border when it was established became Israeli citizens, and are generally peaceful. beside very few that sometimes help terrorism by driving suicide bombers and such, most of them run a normal life as part of the Israeli population.

your suggestion would be valid in an ideal world. ours is not so ideal...

the differences are more than religion, these are two completely different nations with almost nothing in common and I see no reason in having them share one state. there is a pretty clear demographic seperation and the two nations should have two different states.

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[Darius11 12]

Quote

Didn't seemt o me his intentionw as to use that as justification for what was going on. His problem (and in a way I agree with him) is that Israel gets painted as the innocent peaceful ones and the palistinians as the cold blooded murderers.

That is exactly my point

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Darius11 12]

Quote

Who did Israel steal it from? The Palestinians didn't have their own country before the Jewish moved in, why do they think the deserve one now? If native Americans organized a government that opposed the US right to exist, and were bombing US schools and buses and making other terrorist-type attacks against my people for stealing their land, you can bet your ass the response would be swift and brutal.

The questions are what is right and what is wrong.

Are you denying that we treated the Native Americans in a cruel way, that we stool what was there land?

Do you think we treated them in the way you would like to be treated?

If yes then I can see why you’re on Israelis side.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Darius11 12]

Quote

So why don't you declare war on the League of Nations/United Nations, as they were the ones that invited Jewish refugees to settle there, and later created Israel.

They’re not the ones killing people dropping bombs on residential areas with out care.
If you forgot Israel will not allow UN peace troops to enter god forbid they were able to come in and show what the Israelis do.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[sundevil777 102]

Quote

Didn't seemt o me his intentionw as to use that as justification for what was going on. His problem (and in a way I agree with him) is that Israel gets painted as the innocent peaceful ones and the palistinians as the cold blooded murderers. It really isn't that black and white. All sides are involved in a very bloody tit-for-tat game where nobody can remember what really started it.

When it comes to the mainstream liberal media, the palestinians are most often portrayed as the victims. Their leadership has openly bragged about how their friends in the media help them. Israel is much more often identified as the oppressor.

The history of the region is well documented, not so hard to find out what really started it, for those that care to take a little time to research.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[livendive 8]

Quote

In Reply To
Christianity and Islam are both religions of violent fervor. On the other hand, I don't know of any war or campaign ever fought in the name of Buddha.

The civil war in Sri Lanka

The one caused by the Hindu guerrillas? Obviously I was overstating things by implying that Buddhists are 100% non-violent, but I'll still maintain that neither christianity nor islam is a religion of peace and that Buddhism is the only religion I know of worthy of being so dubbed, albeit with exceptions that prove the rule.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[Darius11 12]

Quote

Quote

Christianity is a religion of peace Get slapped turn the other cheek and all that. Islam says if someone wrongs you have to make sure they do not do that again.

Should you not try turning the cheek initially and resort to deterrence only as a last resort?

Richards

Personally I believe no. If someone decided to brake the peace then they should be punished in such a way that they do not disturbs anyone else's peace. My response needs to be stronger then his so he understands what he did was wrong and makes him think twice before ever raising hand on someone else who has not provoked him.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[SpeedRacer 1]

Quote

Quote

In Reply To
Christianity and Islam are both religions of violent fervor. On the other hand, I don't know of any war or campaign ever fought in the name of Buddha.

The civil war in Sri Lanka

The one caused by the Hindu guerrillas? Obviously I was overstating things by implying that Buddhists are 100% non-violent, but I'll still maintain that neither christianity nor islam is a religion of peace and that Buddhism is the only religion I know of worthy of being so dubbed, albeit with exceptions that prove the rule.

Blues,
Dave

1) exceptions do not prove a rule. I'd like to find the guy who invented the phrase "It's the exception that PROVES THE RULE!" so I could kick him in the nuts for being such a moron.

2) take away religious wars & people just find other reasons to start a fight. Look at the last 3 centuries.

Speed Racer
--------------------------------------------------

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

The history of the region is well documented, not so hard to find out what really started it, for those that care to take a little time to research.

Then please do tell me who started it, since you claim it is so easy.

I think your statement about the liberal media is laughable and utterly false.

[okalb 104]

Quote

Personally I believe no. If someone decided to brake the peace then they should be punished in such a way that they do not disturbs anyone else's peace. My response needs to be stronger then his so he understands what he did was wrong and makes him think twice before ever raising hand on someone else who has not provoked him.

You mean like Irael blowing up a city because one of their soldiers was kidnapped

Time flies like an arrow....fruit flies like a banana

[GTAVercetti 0]

Quote

Quote

The history of the region is well documented, not so hard to find out what really started it, for those that care to take a little time to research.

Then please do tell me who started it, since you claim it is so easy.

I think your statement about the liberal media is laughable and utterly false.

but, but but....here in North America, the media always portrays the Palastinians are the poor, trodden upon good guys.

No wait. They don't.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[bch7773 0]

well at least the terrorists attacked the military this time. Its much better then their standard "blow up civilians" technique.


and you all have to remember, the muslim terrorists WANT to start a holy war. They want Israel to attack countries, so maybe a war will start.

MB 3528, RB 1182

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

but, but but....here in North America, the media always portrays the Palastinians are the poor, trodden upon good guys.

No wait. They don't.

This morning, one station portrayed them as slavering murdering maniacs. I switched to another station and saw the same video clips but "this" palestine was portrayed as wimpering cowering victims. Then I switched to our 3rd station (same vid clips) and "these" palestinians were portrayed as bravely (yet passively and non-violently) standing up under unfair attack.

I'm assuming the truth is in the middle there somewhere.

But the assumption that the media puts its spin on it? I think that's true - at least based on me flipping to 3 channels this morning in the space of about 3 minutes.

Edit: I believe the 4th station was commenting on the incidents of deer coming into suburban areas. They didn't comment on whether the deer were palestinians or not. I assume they were and were either in town to escape injury or, conversely, here to rough up the squirrels in the neighborhoods.

Edit: Edit: I was scared to flip to another station, so I shut off the TV and went to work.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[GTAVercetti 0]

Which is my point. The media does not ALWAYS spin them as poor victims as was stated. They spin them in the direction of whatever pulls the most heartstrings. Though, from what I have seen, the media here often bends more towards Israel than Palestine (I repeat, from what I have seen personally).

In addition, I heard the deer were actually Tamil tigers in disguise.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[falxori 0]

Quote

Personally I believe no. If someone decided to brake the peace then they should be punished in such a way that they do not disturbs anyone else's peace. My response needs to be stronger then his so he understands what he did was wrong and makes him think twice before ever raising hand on someone else who has not provoked him.

I think you are right, and that's what Israel is doing now in response to an unprovoked , peace braking attack by Hezbolla from Lebanon...

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

In addition, I heard the deer were actually Tamil tigers in disguise.

fine, but the deer were here first - the tigers will have to deal with that

(and I agreed with your point - people can call bias all they want, as long as they recognize that good revenue for a news station should target all the markets and thus will used whichever bias they think brings in the most $$$$$. But most only scream bias when the spin is against their personal grain

Or reporters are just naive and report the spin of whichever group they talked to last.......)

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Amazon 7]

Quote

they’re not the ones killing people dropping bombs on residential areas with out care.

Darius,

Why are you not getting on your soap box abou the daily firing of rockets by Hamas.. and Hezbollah INTO Israeli cities and settlements.. are the Palistinians not doing EXACTLY the same thing????

Hypocrisy dude.....each side is doing it.. and it appears the PEACE LOVING Palistinan ....uh.... innocent gunmen.... kicked the wrong hornets nest once again.

It is that whole eye for an eye thing.. and some people seem to be too blind to see it.... your friends can either make a lasting peace.... OR get the WAR that they certainly seem to want so desparately.

[falxori 0]

Quote

The media does not ALWAYS spin them as poor victims as was stated

no, not always, but most of the times and especially by european channels.
for example, in an interview i've seen earlier on BBC, the women in the studio asked their reporter in Israel whether it is true that there are rockets fired from lebanon into Israeli towns. his response was "I've heard such a rumor"

note that today, more than 100 Katyusha rockets (military grade soviet rockets) were fired into several Israeli towns (including the 3rd largest city of Haifa) , killing several and wounding more than 100 (until now)

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."