Israeli soldiers kidnapped, and Isarael is now shelling

[Darius11 12]

no no Sunny would never do that.

He has no personal feelings at all just the facts that are made up to support his belief.


Trust me there is a reason i don't replay to him. Moses could come down and tell him the facts but he wouldn't agree.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[falxori 0]

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You are from Israel so I am sure you see the stolen land you live on as your rightful land even if as early as 58 years ago neither you nor your parents lived there. But guess who did?

oh, not again with the "who was here first"...
again you stop 60 years ago, why not go a thousand or two? who said 60 is the magic number when ownership of a land is set?

and btw, my family has been here for at least 200 years. they were kicked out around 70 years ago from their home in Hebron by (suprise) an angry arab mob...

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[SkyDekker 1,465]

So, when you stated this earlier in the thread:

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The history of the region is well documented, not so hard to find out what really started it, for those that care to take a little time to research.

The "research" you speak of is reading pro-Israel websites and letting that form your opinion because nobody else has posted a link to a pro-palastinian website?

[Darius11 12]

Someone already answered your questions in the other thread yesterday by going back even further to show how your argument is flawed.

Why go back 60 years? Simple that’s what this fight is about what happened 60 years ago not 3000.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[SpeedRacer 1]

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Someone already answered your questions in the other thread yesterday by going back even further to show how your argument is flawed.

Why go back 60 years? Simple that’s what this fight is about what happened 60 years ago not 3000.

except he just said his family had been there for 200 years & was only kicked out 70 years ago.

Speed Racer
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[sundevil777 102]

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So, when you stated this earlier in the thread:

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The history of the region is well documented, not so hard to find out what really started it, for those that care to take a little time to research.

The "research" you speak of is reading pro-Israel websites and letting that form your opinion because nobody else has posted a link to a pro-palastinian website?

You don't know what I've done to understand the history. My comment about the lack of Palestinian support group sites being offered is due to the lack of such info being offered by supporters of their position, they haven't tried to dispute the fact that the Arabs don't want peace, they want to undo what was done by the League of Nations and the UN. I started a thread specifically about how the Hamas charter makes it clear they don't want a negotiated peace.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[Darius11 12]

Why was your family kicked out?


Was it only because they were Jewish?

The reason I ask is in my years living among Muslims and in the Middle East I have never encountered anti-Semitism I know that might be hard to believe but I have heard more negative remarks about Jews in the United States then I have heard in Iran.

So thats why i am asking

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[falxori 0]

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Someone already answered your questions in the other thread yesterday by going back even further to show how your argument is flawed.

Why go back 60 years? Simple that’s what this fight is about what happened 60 years ago not 3000.

nothing in that post makes my argument flawed, unless the palestinians claim to be Cananites.
all i'm saying is that you can't go 60 years back just because at that time there was a muslim majority (what can you do when muslims decided to conquer everything from pakistan in the east to spain in the west...)
2000 years ago there was a war and a well established Israel was destroyed and its population sent all over the world. 60 years ago there was an attempt to divide this land between its rightful owners (and i do see the palestinians as having a claim in this land) but they chose war in which they've lost. it was not "stolen" from them because it was never theirs as a nation.
by your logic, if we wait a 1000 years, the palestinians will lose their right in this land, won't they?

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[Darius11 12]

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Someone already answered your questions in the other thread yesterday by going back even further to show how your argument is flawed.

Why go back 60 years? Simple that’s what this fight is about what happened 60 years ago not 3000.

except he just said his family had been there for 200 years & was only kicked out 70 years ago.

If he was then that’s the exception most were refugees from Europe.

I am looking at the majority when I make a comment just like most do. We can spend the rest of are lifes pointing to the exceptions.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Darius11 12]

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nothing in that post makes my argument flawed, unless the palestinians claim to be Cananites.

Actually it does make your argument flawed at least to me. Why go back to the time where it is convenient for the Israelis?

Do you not agree that the war and hostility between Israel and Palestine is because of what happened 60 years ago?

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[livendive 8]

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You are from Israel so I am sure you see the stolen land you live on as your rightful land even if as early as 58 years ago neither you nor your parents lived there. But guess who did? I know reality hurts

Oddly enough, I don't see the land you live on in Rhode Island as "stolen".

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[falxori 0]

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Why was your family kicked out?

why? i don't know. my Family had lived in Hebron for centuries and they were forced out in the 1929 riots (read about the 29 riots, or the 1936-1939 ones) and moved to Tel-Aviv.

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The reason I ask is in my years living among Muslims and in the Middle East I have never encountered anti-Semitism

I'm very careful when pulling the Anti semitism card. its a serious matter and I don't call someone an anti semite when they don't like Israel.
the conflict here is about land, not about religion (although the religious difference is not helping). there are two nations with valid claims to the same small strip of land. they need to share it and settle for less than what is rightfully theirs. and yes, i'm willing to give up my family house in Hebron for that.

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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You don't know what I've done to understand the history.

You are right, that is why I am asking.

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My comment about the lack of Palestinian support group sites being offered is due to the lack of such info being offered by supporters of their position, they haven't tried to dispute the fact that the Arabs don't want peace

And this fact is stated by whom? The Jews? Israel? A splinter organization? Maybe there aren't any websites disputing it because your stated "fact" is so far in left field it really doesn't even deserve a response?

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I started a thread specifically about how the Hamas charter makes it clear they don't want a negotiated peace.

You do know that Hamas doesn't speak for all Arabs right? Or that not all Arabs support Hamas etc.....?

[falxori 0]

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Actually it does make your argument flawed at least to me. Why go back to the time where it is convenient for the Israelis?

exactly my point. you can't say "go back 60 years" and when I say "go back 2000" you reply with "its not valid"
if 2000 ago is not valid, then 60 years is not valid as well.

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Do you not agree that the war and hostility between Israel and Palestine is because of what happened 60 years ago?

no, it started before that. sure it became bigger when jews were starting to come back to their home land.
you say they have no right to come back, I say they have every right to come back.

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[Michele 1]

Not sure of the latest - maybe Ori can clear it up for me; but I've been hearing that Israel is dropping leaflets in Beirut advising civilians to leave the area, and that Iran has gotten involved somehow (I think by harboring the kidnapped soldiers; again, not sure).

I am wondering if the Lebanese gave up the one guy in the New York bombing bust *(two weeks ago? 10 days ago? Something like that) knowing what was coming down the pike, and realizing they might need to curry favor with the US (to encourage Israel to use "restraint", as Condi said a bit ago...).

And apparently, Iran has offered to harbor the kidnapped soldiers...and now there's some talk about Syria being involved some how.

If indeed Iran, Syria and Lebanon have gotten involved, this is going to go very big very quickly...my prayers and thoughts are with all the citizens in the entire region for they are those who will suffer the most.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[Darius11 12]

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Why was your family kicked out?

why? i don't know. my Family had lived in Hebron for centuries and they were forced out in the 1929 riots (read about the 29 riots, or the 1936-1939 ones) and moved to Tel-Aviv.

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The reason I ask is in my years living among Muslims and in the Middle East I have never encountered anti-Semitism

I'm very careful when pulling the Anti semitism card. its a serious matter and I don't call someone an anti semite when they don't like Israel.
the conflict here is about land, not about religion (although the religious difference is not helping). there are two nations with valid claims to the same small strip of land. they need to share it and settle for less than what is rightfully theirs. and yes, i'm willing to give up my family house in Hebron for that.

Thank for not pulling the Anti Semitism card. I appreciate that you don’t use it as an excuse to turn a blind eye to someone’s argument no matter how much you disagree with it.

The reason I was asking was if they were kicked out because they were Jewish then I truly feel bad for what your family must have been put threw.

I hate racism


If there were other reasons then it might be a private issue and I respect you not putting family history on the Internet.

I truly don’t know if there will ever be peace in that area. I am not a Palestinian I don’t have a single friend from there but obviously I do support them and there right to what I view as there land.

I wish they would just drop the borders and just make one nation. Jews, Muslims, Christians, and whoever else could just simply live together.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[falxori 0]

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The reason I was asking was if they were kicked out because they were Jewish

yes, it was riots of arabs against jews all over the country, they simply fled after several murders.

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I don’t have a single friend from there but obviously I do support them and there right to what I view as there land.

one question.
what do you see as "their land". I mean both Israelis and Palestinians see the whole land (and some even what is today's Jordan) as theirs historically, but would you settle for a palestinians state side by side Israel in the 67 borders or do you , like Hamas, say "all or nothing" ?

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wish they would just drop the borders and just make one nation

why? two seperated nations should have two seperated states.

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[falxori 0]

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And apparently, Iran has offered to harbor the kidnapped soldiers...and now there's some talk about Syria being involved some how

no one knows where they are.
Iran and Syria are accountable because they pretty much control Hezbollah (and Hamas) and have been arming it with the rockets currently falling on Israel.
Lebanon is accountable because Hezbollah is operating within Lebanon and Lebanon refuses to dismantle its military wing (hezbollah has PMs in the lebanese parliment) and deploy its own army along its border with Israel.

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[SpeedRacer 1]

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I mean both Israelis and Palestinians see the whole land (and some even what is today's Jordan) as theirs historically, but would you settle for a palestinians state side by side Israel in the 67 borders

actually I believe that there are many Palestinians who want the pre-6 day war borders back as well. Unfortunately there are also the extremists that want it all.

----

I say we should fly over the area & bathe it with cannabis smoke for a few weeks until everybody can just calm the fuck down.

when the Isrealis & Palestinians are thoroughly stoned, and they're lying on their couches munching on doritos & oreos, then maybe they'll be in a peaceful enough mood to talk.

somebody put on some Pink Floyd.

Speed Racer
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[Richards 0]

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Personally I believe no. If someone decided to brake the peace then they should be punished in such a way that they do not disturbs anyone else's peace. My response needs to be stronger then his so he understands what he did was wrong and makes him think twice before ever raising hand on someone else who has not provoked him.

[Andy9o8 2]

I think the two of you should jump together. The journey of peace starts with the first step.

[livendive 8]

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How do the Palestinians respond? What have they done with Gaza, the first Palestinian territory in history to be independent, something neither the Ottomans nor the British nor the Egyptians nor the Jordanians, all of whom ruled Palestinians before the Israelis, ever permitted? On the very day of Israel's final pullout, the Palestinians began firing rockets out of Gaza into Israeli towns on the other side of the border. And remember: those are attacks not on settlers but on civilians in Israel proper, the pre-1967 Israel that the international community recognizes as legitimately part of sovereign Israel, a member state of the U.N. A thousand rockets have fallen since.

For what possible reason? Before the withdrawal, attacks across the border could have been rationalized with the usual Palestinian mantra of occupation, settlements and so on. But what can one say after the withdrawal?

I think what they're saying is that Israel didn't withdraw as a sign of good faith, but rather that they were victorious in forcing Israel to retreat and are now pressing their battle forward.

This article from Iraq says essentially the same thing about the Lebanese border...that Israel didn't pull back to help the peace process, but rather that victorious Hezbollah forced their retreat.

I realize there are multiple ways of looking at anything, but one need only see the ass-kickings Israel has readily handed out to realize they were not forced back by the trash comprising Hamas and Hezbollah.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[skydyvr 0]

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So we deserved 9/11 because of our support of the Mujahideen?

Yes, among other reasons.

Disgusting.

. . =(_8^(1)

[kallend 2,026]

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Don't forget the beads...

'ooh...Look at the pretty beads, tell you what Kimosabi, you give me Montana and I'll give you the pretty beads......Yes?'

'Umm Yes.'

'OK Soldier you can take the gun away from the childs head now, and give them some wiskey!'

I don't by any means condone the methods white people used to take the land, I'm just pointing out that peaceful negotiations between the cultures since then have produced far better results than violence would have.

The current conflict between "Palestinians" and "Israelis" doesn't make much sense to me. Who stole the land from whom and what are the evidentiary signs of such theft? Can the Palestinians show that a) they previously possessed the land and b) they no longer posses it? How so?

Why can't we just take the entire landmass in question and call it "Paljudahstine" and allow muslims and jews to live anywhere they want in the region as long as they remain peaceful? If the people over there (of all faiths) would quit trying to establish their own society founded in religious discrimination, peace would follow quickly after. Instead of having a Jewish government (Israel) and a Muslim government (PA), the Paljudahstinian government would be freely elected by the populus with a mandate to simultaneously maintain a secular stance yet respect the freedom of the governed to privately pursue their own faiths.

Blues,
Dave

I have been on a number of reservations in AZ and NM and I suppose living on one is marginally better than the alternative of being dead. There's a good reason reservations have the highest rate of alcoholism in the US. I really don't think diplomacy did these folks a whole lot of good. Especially considering how many so-called "treaties" the US reneged on.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[livendive 8]

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I have been on a number of reservations in AZ and NM and I suppose living on one is marginally better than the alternative of being dead. There's a good reason reservations have the highest rate of alcoholism in the US. I really don't think diplomacy did these folks a whole lot of good. Especially considering how many so-called "treaties" the US reneged on.

It may just be anecdotal, but the reservations I've visited in Washington and Alaska have had their fair share of privileges. It may be regional, I mean you're talking about Arizona and New Mexico! Also, your alcoholism note might have a cause/effect flaw.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)