Educational level of US states

[kallend 2,106]

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>What if there are no parents, or the parents are incapable (heroin
> addicts.....)? What then?

Foster homes.

My "rock star" son's current GF grew up in orphanages because they could not find enough foster parents for all the kids. She ran away at age 15 because she couldn't stand it any more. Has an 8th grade education and no chance of supporting herself with anything except minimum wage jobs. Cannot afford even community college after paying for food and housing. I suppose she could get pregnant and go on welfare, but surely we as a society can do better than that.

AT some point the state HAS to step up and deliver.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 23]

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>Wow, I have never seen a better description of a liberal in my life!!

Now that was funny! And they say people have no sense of humor here . . .

I was very very bad. I am sorry

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Rookie120 0]

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AT some point the state HAS to step up and deliver.

Deliver what? A free college education? A $100,000 a year job? What does the state have to do for her?

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

[lawrocket 3]

Where is this gal working? Does she have the opportunity to advance through her work? Possibility for pay raises? Does she have a GED? How about work two jobs? Perhaps get a roommate? Pool some resources with another person? Get a college loan? Some grants? There are plenty of scholarships for people with her background? Military service? GI Bill?

Have you explained any of these options to her? Trust me, there are many more that the ones I just listed.

Or, have you told her, "You're screwed. The government needs to pick up the slack. I'm afraid that without government assistance, you are doomed to a life of poverty."

It's amazing what a person will do when he or she sets his or her mind to it. Maybe it's why I worked 30 hours a week at two jobs while taking a high course load in college. Oh, yeah, and I found a scholarship through ROTC that helped, too.

There are things out there for people to do. The fact that the government isn't there to pick up the slack merely means that a person whould say, "Damn. There's a lot of slackon this line. Nobody can pick it up. I guess I've got two choices: either tighten the slack and move forward or keep waiting for someone to pick it up for me."

To try to do something and fail is vastly better than to try to do nothing and succeed. Trust me - I know. I know because I've been there.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[billvon 3,064]

>At some point the state HAS to step up and deliver.

I've notices stories far worse than hers as a result of the state "standing up and delivering" what they need to survive without doing anything.

Like I said, I think the state should make education available if people want it. Around here, state colleges cost $26 a unit. That's about $120 a semester for part-timers - and they will often waive that if the student demonstrates hardship. Hard to imagine that being unaffordable.

[tri160 1]

That's just the tuition. My tuition for the upcoming semester is only $300 for 15 credit hours. My general education fee is $120 per credit hour. That does not include student activity fees another $120 or health insurance $800. Luckily I have my own health insurance so I don't have to pay that. Guess what no financial aid either. Zip Nada I made too much money last year. So yeah it's real affordable, but I found a way and will do it while still supporting my family. I don't need the governments help. It would be nice to have it but I will do it on my own.

[btwitche1975 0]

I think it's a curious tidbit to add that Bill Gates is without a college degree.

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[kallend 2,106]

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AT some point the state HAS to step up and deliver.

Deliver what? A free college education? A $100,000 a year job? What does the state have to do for her?

Right now she has a job, but what when she was 8, 12, 15 with no parents and living in an orphanage?

Do you think orphans should be cast out on the street with no education? As it is they get precious little compared to kids with loving parents.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Gawain 0]

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My "rock star" son's current GF grew up in orphanages because they could not find enough foster parents for all the kids. She ran away at age 15 because she couldn't stand it any more. Has an 8th grade education and no chance of supporting herself with anything except minimum wage jobs. Cannot afford even community college after paying for food and housing. I suppose she could get pregnant and go on welfare, but surely we as a society can do better than that.

AT some point the state HAS to step up and deliver.

AT SOME point, she has to earn her GED. Many states have programs that should allow her to do that at taxpayer's expense (no big deal, they already paid for it anyway).

With a GED, she can get a better job. In fact, her options expand 1000-fold by just doing that.

The state "owes" her nothing. It was her choice to run away. If she can't step up to the plate, why should anyone have pity?

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Rookie120 0]

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Right now she has a job, but what when she was 8, 12, 15 with no parents and living in an orphanage?

Do you think orphans should be cast out on the street with no education? As it is they get precious little compared to kids with loving parents.

What orphanage was she at that denied her an education? Grants, scholarships, student loans? Was she denied all of those?

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

[rushmc 23]

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AT some point the state HAS to step up and deliver.

Deliver what? A free college education? A $100,000 a year job? What does the state have to do for her?

Right now she has a job, but what when she was 8, 12, 15 with no parents and living in an orphanage?

Do you think orphans should be cast out on the street with no education? As it is they get precious little compared to kids with loving parents.

I think you are extending this discussion farther than anyone else. I don't recall anybody saying she should not get a state sponsored education. What has been talked about is where the topic limit is at and (in the opinions of those posting) where that limit should be.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Lindsey 0]

Every person has to make decisions about what they're willing to invest into their own lives and futures. We don't all start out in the same place. There are some basic government supports in place, but they're not going to make anyone's way for them. Even a person who grew up in an orphanage and eventually ran away and quit school in the 8th grade has the opportunity to become whatever she wants to become in life....IF she's willing to put in the effort. Some people have that spark naturally and find a way to achieve. Some people have to dig a little deeper to muster the guts. Some sit on their hind ends for the rest of their lives complaining about what they weren't able to do because they weren't given the opportunity. The opportunity is there, but sometimes you have to work for it....

linz

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[kallend 2,106]

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My "rock star" son's current GF grew up in orphanages because they could not find enough foster parents for all the kids. She ran away at age 15 because she couldn't stand it any more. Has an 8th grade education and no chance of supporting herself with anything except minimum wage jobs. Cannot afford even community college after paying for food and housing. I suppose she could get pregnant and go on welfare, but surely we as a society can do better than that.

AT some point the state HAS to step up and deliver.

AT SOME point, she has to earn her GED. Many states have programs that should allow her to do that at taxpayer's expense (no big deal, they already paid for it anyway).

With a GED, she can get a better job. In fact, her options expand 1000-fold by just doing that.

The state "owes" her nothing. It was her choice to run away. If she can't step up to the plate, why should anyone have pity?

She is just an example and she is now doing as well as can be expected.

You ALL avoid the question of what obligation the state has towards children who have no effective parents or no parents at all.

Seems that some on the right would like a return to "Oliver Twist" type workhouses.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Lindsey 0]

The state has the obligation to provide a home, food, clothing, education to children until they reach the age of 18.

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[lawrocket 3]

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You ALL avoid the question of what obligation the state has towards children who have no effective parents or no parents at all.

Seems that some on the right would like a return to "Oliver Twist" type workhouses.

John - can't there be a middle ground? Back in the day there were private and religious orphanages. Plenty of kids were raised in them. The government didn't do it - it was left to others.

Now you've got government-sponsored foster care (Which I can represent is a shambles, at least here in Cali) and group homes, dependency courts, etc. It seems that most of the complaints about orphanages in the early part of the last century are just as valid against the government-run homes.

I dont' think anyone is suggesting that kids be put into workhouses. The choices are not either "government run" or "'Please sir, I want some some more' style workhouses around coal mines."

It's amazing how good and efficient private charity is, John. You're an example of it. In fact, you are an example of a belif that government doesn't do it because you volunteer. Hey, if the govt. did it, or did a good job, you wouldn/t HAVE to volunteer. But they don't, so you do.

The state should ensure that these kids get equal protection. Then the state should leave it up to the sincere to take care of it, and offer the sincere whatever help it can.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Gawain 0]

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AT SOME point, she has to earn her GED. Many states have programs that should allow her to do that at taxpayer's expense (no big deal, they already paid for it anyway).

With a GED, she can get a better job. In fact, her options expand 1000-fold by just doing that.

The state "owes" her nothing. It was her choice to run away. If she can't step up to the plate, why should anyone have pity?

She is just an example and she is now doing as well as can be expected.

You ALL avoid the question of what obligation the state has towards children who have no effective parents or no parents at all.

Seems that some on the right would like a return to "Oliver Twist" type workhouses.

I've avoided nothing. The state was providing food, shelter, clothing and schooling to her until her choice to run away at age 15.

She is NOT doing as well as can be expected.

I've not seen anyone deny that the state should provide assistance to children under age 18. This thread was originally about your criticizm of "red" state apparently showing low percentages of college level degrees.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[kallend 2,106]

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The state has the obligation to provide a home, food, clothing, education to children until they reach the age of 18.

And then they are fully equipped to succeed in our society and can be cast adrift?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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The state has the obligation to provide a home, food, clothing, education to children until they reach the age of 18.

And then they are fully equipped to succeed in our society and can be cast adrift?

Cast adrift..bwahahahahah...

No, then they can go out and get a job like an adult and start supporting themselves. If they want to continue their education, there are many vehicles like grants and student loans and scholarships available. If they can't figure out how to finance a higher education, then perhaps they are a poor candidate.

Gotta wean them of the nipple at some point.

[Gawain 0]

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And then they are fully equipped to succeed in our society and can be cast adrift?

There are no absolutes in life. You must know this. Life is all about "baptism by fire". School does not prepare one for "life". It helps people "learn to learn" and "how to think". Those that are fortunate enough to have the fortitude to earn an advanced degree get a better dose of this, but otherwise, life is still going to throw curve balls that school can never prepare them for.

That is the way of things. To expect more, is indeed, naive (a paradox isn't it? ).

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Nightingale 0]

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No, then they can go out and get a job like an adult and start supporting themselves. If they want to continue their education, there are many vehicles like grants and student loans and scholarships available. If they can't figure out how to finance a higher education, then perhaps they are a poor candidate.

Gotta wean them of the nipple at some point.

How the heck are they supposed to go out and get grants and loans without any guidance at all as to how to to do that? The world of financial aid is not an easy world to navigate, and I've been dealing with it for ten years.

[kallend 2,106]

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No, then they can go out and get a job like an adult and start supporting themselves. If they want to continue their education, there are many vehicles like grants and student loans and scholarships available. If they can't figure out how to finance a higher education, then perhaps they are a poor candidate.

Gotta wean them of the nipple at some point.

How the heck are they supposed to go out and get grants and loans without any guidance at all as to how to to do that? The world of financial aid is not an easy world to navigate, and I've been dealing with it for ten years.

Isn't it funny that those who are loudest in criticism of state schools are most convinced that someone brought up entirely by the state is so well equipped for our society.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Gawain 0]

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How the heck are they supposed to go out and get grants and loans without any guidance at all as to how to to do that? The world of financial aid is not an easy world to navigate, and I've been dealing with it for ten years.

It is an extremely simple way to start (even if not an easy process): it's called a PHONECALL to the school of interest.

Most schools will have assistance systems to help people get started.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Gravitymaster 0]

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No, then they can go out and get a job like an adult and start supporting themselves. If they want to continue their education, there are many vehicles like grants and student loans and scholarships available. If they can't figure out how to finance a higher education, then perhaps they are a poor candidate.

Gotta wean them of the nipple at some point.

How the heck are they supposed to go out and get grants and loans without any guidance at all as to how to to do that? The world of financial aid is not an easy world to navigate, and I've been dealing with it for ten years.

And you seem to be doing very well as I recall.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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No, then they can go out and get a job like an adult and start supporting themselves. If they want to continue their education, there are many vehicles like grants and student loans and scholarships available. If they can't figure out how to finance a higher education, then perhaps they are a poor candidate.

Gotta wean them of the nipple at some point.

How the heck are they supposed to go out and get grants and loans without any guidance at all as to how to to do that? The world of financial aid is not an easy world to navigate, and I've been dealing with it for ten years.

Isn't it funny that those who are loudest in criticism of state schools are most convinced that someone brought up entirely by the state is so well equipped for our society.

Exactly. Privatize education and many of the problems with indiffrence disappear. Perhaps an adult who is getting paid a decent wage to teach will take the time to provde some guidance if it's needed.

[Nightingale 0]

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And you seem to be doing very well as I recall.

I started college at 17. There was no way in HELL I could've managed to deal with financial aid all on my own. My parents took care of it (and educated me about it along the way) until I finished my undergrad degree. They told me what to sign, and I read the forms and signed them. I didn't start navigating the financial aid system on my own until I started grad school, and it's a lot easier for grad students. They've usually got jobs, so they don't have to worry about additional loans to cover cost of living. Federal loans don't cover everything, and private loans take co-signers to get.