steveorino 7 #251 August 9, 2006 What rules address origin? Any? steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,079 #252 August 9, 2006 QuoteWhat rules address origin? Any? Cosmologists and physicists have a pretty good idea what happened after the first trillionth of a trillionth of a second (10^-24 seconds). Before that, none that I know... That's the stuff that Stephen Hawking works on. So we have a pretty good handle on 15 billion years but are not sure about the first micro-nano-nano-second. Maybe some supernatural being induced creation of our universe, saw that it was running by the rules, and went off to create new universes elsewhere. Maybe it was just a quantum fluctuation. One thing is for sure: neolithic folks from 3,000 years ago did NOT have a better handle on things than we do.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,537 #253 August 9, 2006 Quote>There either is a being that can do impossible things or there isn't. There is no being that can do impossible things, by definition. If anyone (including someone we define as god) can do them they're not impossible. On the other hand, WE can do things that were formerly impossible. We can bring dead people back to life (sometimes.) We can copy animals, and will soon be able to copy people, without the need for a father. Today we can pull off "immaculate conceptions." Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic (or in this case, an act of God.) Does that mean that a future human, because he can (for example) create life, is a god? Nope. Thus the danger of definitions like "beings who can do impossible things." OK, bad wording on my part. However unless super advanced aliens or time travelling humans from the future instigated biblical events it becomes a bit of a moot point, no?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #254 August 9, 2006 QuoteQuoteWhat rules address origin? Any? Cosmologists and physicists have a pretty good idea what happened after the first trillionth of a trillionth of a second (10^-24 seconds). Before that, none that I know... That's the stuff that Stephen Hawking works on. So we have a pretty good handle on 15 billion years but are not sure about the first micro-nano-nano-second. Maybe some supernatural being induced creation of our universe, saw that it was running by the rules, and went off to create new universes elsewhere. Maybe it was just a quantum fluctuation. One thing is for sure: neolithic folks from 3,000 years ago did NOT have a better handle on things than we do. Do you think we should't ask about that first nano second? If so, who could answer it better, a professor of physics or a theologian? BTW, don't be so arrogant. Some of these neolithic people who wrote the Bible were contemporaries of those who built the seven ancient wonders of the world. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,038 #255 August 9, 2006 >Do you think we should't ask about that first nano second? If so, >who could answer it better, a professor of physics or a theologian? Well, until we had Galileo and Bruno, theologians were a good source for how the stars were stuck to the vault of the heavens. Nowadays we go to scientists instead. Likewise, nowadays theologians have some interesting theories about that first sub-attosecond of the universe's existence; nothing wrong with discussing it with them. I have a feeling that in the future we will go with what scientists discover about the origins of the universe, thougj. >Some of these neolithic people who wrote the Bible were > contemporaries of those who built the seven ancient wonders >of the world. Right, and for questions about stone-block construction they would probably be a great resource. As to the gravitational constant, though, or the early formation of the universe, a modern scientist might be a better person to ask. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #256 August 9, 2006 Quote> >Some of these neolithic people who wrote the Bible were > contemporaries of those who built the seven ancient wonders >of the world. Right, and for questions about stone-block construction they would probably be a great resource. As to the gravitational constant, though, or the early formation of the universe, a modern scientist might be a better person to ask. My bad, I thought we were talking about God. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,038 #257 August 9, 2006 >I thought we were talking about God. We were; that's what theologians talk about. They also write books that are sometimes misinterpreted as science texts, which is why it's important to make the distinction. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #258 August 9, 2006 I agree. My take on the Bible it is a reliable source for a man to discover how to be "whole" sometimes translated as "saved". I do not believe it to be a complete, unbiased source of history, science or even genealogy. Obviously, I am NOT a fundamental Christian. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #259 August 9, 2006 Quote>I thought we were talking about God. We were; that's what theologians talk about. They also write books that are sometimes misinterpreted as science texts, which is why it's important to make the distinction. Then why are these scientist butting in? steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,038 #260 August 9, 2006 >Then why are these scientist butting in? Stupid scientists. They should stick to making new food additives. And when are they going to come up with a razor with seven blades? I mean, how hard can that be? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,490 #261 August 9, 2006 QuoteThen why are these scientist butting in?Because, grasshopper, some scientists believe only in science just as strongly as some fundamentalists believe only in the Bible. To their credit, there is more evidence supporting science than a literal reading of the Bible Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,537 #262 August 9, 2006 QuoteBTW, don't be so arrogant. Some of these neolithic people who wrote the Bible were contemporaries of those who built the seven ancient wonders of the world. And illiterate jungle tribes of head hunters are contemporaries of us. Doesn't mean they know what we knowDo you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #263 August 9, 2006 Correct, so I wouldn't lump all people of this age with the mentality of those jungle tribes. Solomon's Temple was a great work that was performed by intelligent men. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #264 August 9, 2006 QuoteObviously, I am NOT a fundamental Christian. Stop saying that. We say you are, so you are. Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,079 #266 August 9, 2006 QuoteCorrect, so I wouldn't lump all people of this age with the mentality of those jungle tribes. Solomon's Temple was a great work that was performed by intelligent men. How do you know? No trace of it remains. And the biblical record says the most impressive part was made by folks from Tyre, not the Israelites. While Israel was still struggling out of the stone age, the Greeks were inventing theater, literature, symbolic mathematics and abstract logic, and the Chinese, Indians and Assyrians were developing metallurgy.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #267 August 9, 2006 QuoteQuoteCorrect, so I wouldn't lump all people of this age with the mentality of those jungle tribes. Solomon's Temple was a great work that was performed by intelligent men. How do you know? No trace of it remains. Yeah? What are the Jews praying beside? steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,079 #268 August 9, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteCorrect, so I wouldn't lump all people of this age with the mentality of those jungle tribes. Solomon's Temple was a great work that was performed by intelligent men. How do you know? No trace of it remains. Yeah? What are the Jews praying beside? The wall of Herod's temple. No trace of Solomon's remains.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #269 August 9, 2006 QuoteWhile Israel was still struggling out of the stone age, the Greeks were inventing theater, literature, symbolic mathematics and abstract logic, and the Chinese, Indians and Assyrians were developing metallurgy. They were busy writing the greatest theological books to this date. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #270 August 9, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteCorrect, so I wouldn't lump all people of this age with the mentality of those jungle tribes. Solomon's Temple was a great work that was performed by intelligent men. How do you know? No trace of it remains. Yeah? What are the Jews praying beside? The wall of Herod's temple. No trace of Solomon's remains. Doh! You're right. Herod built walls around the original Temples. Hey, my OT survey class was a long time ago! steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,079 #271 August 9, 2006 QuoteQuoteWhile Israel was still struggling out of the stone age, the Greeks were inventing theater, literature, symbolic mathematics and abstract logic, and the Chinese, Indians and Assyrians were developing metallurgy. They were busy writing the greatest theological books to this date. Try skydiving with a Bible for your parachute and a cross for your jump plane. Your entire lifestyle depends on science and engineering. Do you like the lights to go on when you turn the switch? Try praying them on tonight.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #272 August 9, 2006 I'm not sure why you're trying to poke at me, but I'll play. When people die, or go through a great trial in life, they call me (a minister) they don't call engineers or scientists. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevebabin 0 #273 August 9, 2006 QuoteWhen people die, or go through a great trial in life, they call me (a minister) they don't call engineers or scientists. Yes, people do strange things during times of great stress.... Most of the people I know who describe themselves as "born again" became "born again" during very stressful times in their lives. Makes me think it's a coping mechanism. Reality can be tough to deal with sometimes."Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings." "Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #274 August 9, 2006 A noted psychologist, (an agnostic) Irvin Yalom, said it is unwise to replace someone's death denial mechanism if you do not have something better to replace it with. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #275 August 9, 2006 QuoteMost of the people I know who describe themselves as "born again" became "born again" during very stressful times in their lives. . Most of the people I know that describe themselves as "born again" did so in their youth. In fact statistics say over 85% of "born againers" become that way before they are 15 years old. You must run with some hard luck born againers. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
