Top Ten Signs You're a Fundamentalist Christian

[stevebabin 0]

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A noted psychologist, (an agnostic) Irvin Yalom, said it is unwise to replace someone's death denial mechanism if you do not have something better to replace it with.

Like I said, reality can be tough to deal with sometimes.

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You must run with some hard luck born againers.

I guess so. It's mostly just observation based on people I know that were "saved" as adults. Almost invariably, the "saving" happened during very difficult/trying/stressful times in thier life(times that wouldn't be conducive to making sound, rational decisions).
As a minister, obviously you are exposed to more of the "cradle-born" christians than I am.

"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."

[steveorino 7]

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I guess so. It's mostly just observation based on people I know that were "saved" as adults. Almost invariably, the "saving" happened during very difficult/trying/stressful times in thier life(times that wouldn't be conducive to making sound, rational decisions).

So, it is your assessment they are worse off finding comfort in God and a church?

steveOrino

[kallend 2,079]

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I'm not sure why you're trying to poke at me, but I'll play. When people die, or go through a great trial in life, they call me (a minister) they don't call engineers or scientists.

Dead people call you? Cool!

Sometimes people undergoing great trials in life call medical doctors, psychiatrists, etc. and other technically trained individuals.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[steveorino 7]

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I'm not sure why you're trying to poke at me, but I'll play. When people die, or go through a great trial in life, they call me (a minister) they don't call engineers or scientists.

Dead people call you? Cool!

Sometimes people undergoing great trials in life call medical doctors, psychiatrists, etc. and other technically trained individuals.

Been to a lot of funerals, but never seen a doctor or pyschiatrists or other "technically trained" people perform a funeral.

Of course my response was in your swipe that I should pray for the light to come on.

steveOrino

[kallend 2,079]

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Most of the people I know who describe themselves as "born again" became "born again" during very stressful times in their lives. .

Most of the people I know that describe themselves as "born again" did so in their youth. In fact statistics say over 85% of "born againers" become that way before they are 15 years old. You must run with some hard luck born againers.

Our society(along with almost every other first world nation) has long since concluded that people under 18 are not expected to have good judgment and cannot be held responsible for their poor decisons.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[steveorino 7]

You guys sound like the atheists version of the JWs that come to my door to tell me my faith is all wrong.

steveOrino

[pajarito 0]

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Our society(along with almost every other first world nation) has long since concluded that people under 18 are not expected to have good judgment and cannot be held responsible for their poor decisons.

I've heard that also holds true for most liberal college professors.

[stevebabin 0]

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So, it is your assessment they are worse off finding comfort in God and a church?

Not at all.
If it is an effective coping mechanism for them, great. There seems to be many benefits to choosing to believe, even if that choice is not based on anything that I find rational or logical.
For me, though, it is important that what I choose to believe is the truth. Despite the fact that there would be benefits to choosing to believe, the concept of a god, for me, has never even come close to passing for truth. For me, the benefits of choosing to believe do not outweigh accepting as truth something I know to be untrue.
Obviously, your mileage may vary, and if you've found something that brings you a measure of peace, I'm happy for you. Just don't try to convince me that it's the truth without bringing proof. Objective,rational, proof. That's all.

For what it's worth, of all the posters on the "believers" side of these discussions, I appreciate your civility and intent the most.

"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."

[steveorino 7]

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[Just don't try to convince me that it's the truth without bringing proof. Objective,rational, proof. That's all.

No problem. As I understand it, it isn't my job to convince you, but to offer my experience if you ask. Colossians 4:6

steveOrino

[stevebabin 0]

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No problem. As I understand it, it isn't my job to convince you, but to offer my experience if you ask

I think christianity would be better recieved if more followers had this attitude.

"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."

[kallend 2,079]

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Our society(along with almost every other first world nation) has long since concluded that people under 18 are not expected to have good judgment and cannot be held responsible for their poor decisons.

I've heard that also holds true for most liberal college professors.

Can you cite the specific part of the legal code that states that?

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,079]

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You guys sound like the atheists version of the JWs that come to my door to tell me my faith is all wrong.

Your faith is just fine as long as you acknowledge that faith IS belief in something without objective proof. However, once you start with the quotes from scripture attempting to prove that it's true by reference to itself, asking non-believers to prove a negative, and other violations of logic then I think you are completely misguided.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[steveorino 7]

By BIBLICAL definition; (Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see. Hebrews 11:1) faith is NOT objective. Those Christians who claim there is undisputed truth that needs no faith are making a wrong assumption IMHO

Some of us would do better to exercise our intelligence, and others would be better served if we exercised our faith.

steveOrino

[kallend 2,079]

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I'm not sure why you're trying to poke at me, but I'll play. When people die, or go through a great trial in life, they call me (a minister) they don't call engineers or scientists.

Dead people call you? Cool!

Sometimes people undergoing great trials in life call medical doctors, psychiatrists, etc. and other technically trained individuals.

Been to a lot of funerals, but never seen a doctor or pyschiatrists or other "technically trained" people perform a funeral.

Of course my response was in your swipe that I should pray for the light to come on.

It is perfectly possible to have a funeral without any religious mumbo-jumbo. However, you DO need a trained physician to sign the death certificate. Generally speaking our hospitals have more technicians than clergy in them for those who wish to get well instead of dying.

Our society would survive just fine if all the priests, rabbis, imams etc. disappeared tomorrow. I suspect we wouldn't last long if the fruits of science and engineering disappeared tomorrow.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[steveorino 7]

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Our society would survive just fine if all the priests, rabbis, imams etc. disappeared tomorrow. I suspect we wouldn't last long if the fruits of science and engineering disappeared tomorrow.

I can't help but think that is a very narrow minded view.

steveOrino

[kallend 2,079]

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Our society would survive just fine if all the priests, rabbis, imams etc. disappeared tomorrow. I suspect we wouldn't last long if the fruits of science and engineering disappeared tomorrow.

I can't help but think that is a very narrow minded view.

How will you get along without fresh water, sewers, electricity, oil and oil products, gas, engines and motors, vehicles, farm equipment, metals, polymers, fertilizers, food produced using all of the above, medicines, printing, guns, refrigeration, anything produced in a factory...

I get along just fine without priests and rabbis.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[steveorino 7]

Well we all know its all about you.

steveOrino

[kallend 2,079]

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Well we all know its all about you.

Can't answer the question so you resort to insult.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[steveorino 7]

Sorry, busy laughing -- I saw your statement, but what was the question?

Oh, I see. I don't remember saying we could do w/o any of those things. I thought it was you that said YOU could do fine w/o ministers, rabbis, etc. my bad.

steveOrino

[billvon 3,038]

>It is perfectly possible to have a funeral without any religious
> mumbo-jumbo. However, you DO need a trained physician to sign the
>death certificate. Generally speaking our hospitals have more technicians
>than clergy in them for those who wish to get well instead of dying.

Actually, given just one or the other, I think you'd be better served with a priest than a doctor after someone's death. One is pretty useless; the other can at least offer something to the living.

Funerals aren't about the dead. They're about the living.

>Our society would survive just fine if all the priests, rabbis, imams
>etc. disappeared tomorrow. I suspect we wouldn't last long if the fruits of
>science and engineering disappeared tomorrow.

Conversely, we'd all be in pretty bad shape if the works of every religious person disappeared tomorrow. (We'd lose a lot of our current science, math and medical technology.) If, on the other hand, every engineer and scientist went on strike tomorrow, we'd do OK for a while.

[Mockingbird 0]

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Quoting scripture is of no use when trying to defend why you beleive that scripture. All you're saying is "I beleive the bible because the bible tells me to believe it".

Cross-referencing scripture is a perfectly solid course for a student of it to follow. One author says This; and another author says This. They back each other up. Like I said, I always go to them for answers. Where do you expect me to go for answers to questions about God... and (more recently in our discussion) prayer? If I want objective truth about God, the bible is the place to go.

Where do you go for answers about God?

Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"

[br0k3n 0]

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God is never behind the evil works in the world.

Hmm interesting, in that case you must consider none of these to be "evil works?" is that correct...

God is incapable of being or doing evil. He is a God of justice and gives men and women multiple opportunities to repent of their sins and bring themselves into harmony with Him. When I get a chance to re-read these incidents you refer to, I imagine that I will find that God acted in justice. Have you checked them yourself to see if God was simply "on a killing spree" or if He had been sinned against but gave ample opportunity for repentance?

1. How many men did God kill because someone decided to peek into the ark of the Lord? – Answer 50,070, Samuel 6:19

2. How many men did Moses kill in one day because they failed to say they supported God? – Answer 3000, Exodus 32:26-28

3. How many people did God kill in a plague before someone pleased God by ending a mixed marriage with the murder of the couple? – Answer 24,000 Numbers 25:6-9

4. How many animals did Solomon kill in a sacrifice to please the Lord? – Answer 120,000 sheep and 22,000 oxen Kings 8:6

5. How many Israelites did God deliver to the people of Judah to slaughter? – Answer (this is a big one) Half a Million (500,000) Chronicles 13:15-1

6. Notwithstanding the above, how many people of Judah were once killed or enslaved because they didn’t give God his due? – Answer 120,000 valiant men were killed and 200,000 women and children were taken as slaves Chronicles 28:6-8

7. How many Ethiopians did God kill for His chosen people? –Answer 1 Million Chronicles 14:8-1

8. Speaking of God’s chosen people, how many kings were maimed in God’s name? – Answer 70 had their thumbs and big toes cut off Judges 1:5-7

9. How many soldiers did God burn to death with fire from Heaven because they confronted Elijah? Answer 150 (three sets of 50) Chronicles 1:10-14

10. By the time God gets through with his killing spree, how many dead will there be? – Answer Enough to cover the entire surface of the Earth Jeremiah 25:33

[JackC 0]

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If a scientist doesn't find thinking about the time before the big bang, or the possibility of a human spirit that transcends consciousness, to be fruitful, fine.

As a scientist, I'll just say that since time is thought to have started with the Big Bang, there was no before to think about. It's a meaningless question.

Sorry but I do not understand the statement "a human spirit that transcends consciousness". What does it mean?

[br0k3n 0]

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When I get a chance to re-read these incidents you refer to, I imagine that I will find that God acted in justice.

So that we all here can make up our minds as to whether “god” acted in justice, lets take a look at a couple..

And just so we are on the same page here is the Oxford English definition of Justice:-

jus•tice
n. The quality of being just; fairness.
1.
a. The principle of moral rightness; equity.
b. Conformity to moral rightness in action or attitude; righteousness.
2.
a. The upholding of what is just, especially fair treatment and due reward in accordance with honor, standards, or law.
So here is the first one……

Samual 6:19 And he smote the men of Bethshemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the LORD, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men: and the people lamented, because the LORD had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter.

So basically god kills 50,070 for looking into the ark, now that’s some tough ass justice in my book…

Exodus
32:25 And when Moses saw that the people were naked; (for Aaron had made them naked unto their shame among their enemies:)
32:26 Then Moses stood in the gate of the camp, and said, Who is on the LORD's side? let him come unto me. And all the sons of Levi gathered themselves together unto him.
32:27 And he said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour.
32:28 And the children of Levi did according to the word of Moses: and there fell of the people that day about three thousand men.

God has the people kill each other for dancing naked around Aaron's golden calf.
God tells the sons of Levi (Moses, Aaron, and the other members of their tribe that were "on the Lord's side") to kill their family and friends for dancing naked around Aaron's golden calf. "And there fell of the people that day about 3000 men." Hmmm is that justice??

Do you want me to continue MB????????

Or can well all please conclude that your god, the christian god is one bad ass evil mutha......

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--+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

[JackC 0]

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Cross-referencing scripture is a perfectly solid course for a student of it to follow. One author says This; and another author says This. They back each other up. Like I said, I always go to them for answers.

An example to illustrate my point. Many different authors are responsible for Star Trek episodes. They all agree to such an extent that Klingon is now a language, the federation has a bona fide history and we have schematics of the starship Enterprise. Ergo, Star Trek is the Truth (tm). See how rediculous this is?

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Where do you expect me to go for answers to questions about God... and (more recently in our discussion) prayer? If I want objective truth about God, the bible is the place to go.

The bible is not objective truth. It's hearsay and conjecture.

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Where do you go for answers about God?

My own internal bullshit-o-meter, logic, deductive reasoning, the laws of nature, and apply all that and more to the claims made by religious folk. That sort of thing.