Israeli Tanks lined up and ready to roll

[idrankwhat 0]

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Like I said, I wasn't doubting him...just comparing the fact that the photo hadn't been researched or likewise commented on. I find all people who hand children guns abhorent, as well as all people who allow their children to sign bombs. It does nothing more than promulgate the mindset and viciousness that must be stopped before all the rest of it can be stopped.

Ciels-
Michele

I was reading Paul Rieckhoff's book "Chasing Ghosts" last night. During his time in Iraq he and his men really went out of their way to try to win over the children. From having his relatives send them school supplies to paying teachers out of their own pockets, giving the kids soccer balls, candy, sitting in their classrooms and answering their questions, he really put a lot of effort into helping the next generation of Iraqis. As he put it, before there will be peace in Iraq the adults are going to have to die of old age first. Their history of conflict and oppression seems to make the adults incapable of making a transition towards peace. Iraq's future is its children. The same concept could be applied to the Israeli/Arab issue. The problem is that by actively teaching your children to hate and devalue the life of another people you will do nothing but guarantee that this conflict will never come to a peaceful conclusion.

[idrankwhat 0]

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On a side note I was watching met the press and I was surprised and how easily the White House representative could lie. He actually said we are happy that Israel is only targeting the “Terrorist” and not civilian infrastructure.

Lots and lots of practice. The sad part is not that they lie but that the press is so lousy that they don't catch them and call them on those lies. It happens every once in a while but it's rare.

[Darius11 12]

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Darius, you're so filled with blind fury and hatred for the Israelis that you almost never seem to be a sensible part of the discussion. This is a 2-sided conflict, and as long as you paint it as a 1-sided conflict, you'll have little credibility.

You want peace over there? Start by talking peace, for God's sake. Saying (as you did in another thread) that the Israelis should all just clear out and move back to Europe is the problem, not the solution.

Of course Israel over-flies Lebanon's borders. It has to, to protect itself from an Iranian-created and sponsored Hezbollah hell-bent on its destruction. That part is incredibly obvious.

It's been said before, so I'll repeat it: this is not about the occupied territories. It's about whether all of Israel's neighbors are willing to let it simply exist in peace. If Israel's neighbors - all of them - would simply lay down their arms, there would be peace for everybody, and no occupied territories. If Israel simply lays down its arms, it would be destroyed. It's that simple.

If Israel's neighbors want Israel to stop taking all miltary action or occupying any non-Israeli territory, they only have to do one simple thing: leave them the hell alone. That's all - just leave them the hell alone. Everything after that would pretty much fall into place.

I am not blinded by any hate. I just don’t change my morals and views just because the murderer shares the same beliefs as me. I guess if we were all cops and dirty I would be the one who would not get involved and do my best to stop the dirty cops. I wouldn't just close my eyes because of a since of brother hood.


You see you keep on forgetting or ignoring one thing. Israel doesn’t and hasn’t ever left the Palestinians alone. If they ever did truly leave them alone maybe there would be a chance. Israel does nothing but antagonize the Palestinians. Why don’t they just stop?

I don’t see this as a one sided argument, but I do see this as a conflict that Israel started.


As for the Israelis going back to Europe where many came from. The question I was asked was what would be the right thing to do. The right thing would be to give back the land to the people who it was taken from. It doesn’t get any simpler then that does it? I mean you take my home to make that wrong right you have to give it back. Just because it is difficult to do or admit doesn’t make it any less right?
Doing the right thing is never easy.

Answer me this
Even before this conflict started how many civilians have the Israeli government killed?
What should the Palestinian reaction be when a Palestinian is killed or imprisoned by Israeli government?

Please take in to consideration what Israel is doing now for a few of its solders.

Why is it ok for Israel to kill over 300 civilians which a lot are children for a few soldiers? But when a Suicide bomber kills civilians they are Barbaric?

You see I am not blinded by hate, I just value ALL humane life the same. It is obvious many don’t.

I wonder what you would be posting if the countries and situation were reversed.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Trent 0]

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Having said that, I honestly cannot see any alternative solution for peace other than Palestine & Israel disbanding their parliaments & militaries and accepting third party mandate. Obviously the UN... But Which country(ies)?

My nomination would be South Africa (for it's experience) & Italy (for it's proximity).

What're yours? Bear in mind any nomination would have to be acceptable to both (all?) factions and all neighbouring countries. In the case of more than one country, they would have to work together as one.

I read an interesting book, don't remember which one now, that had the Swiss guard acting as protectorate of Israel/Palesinian territories. Yeah, the same dudes who guard the Vatican, but without the funny pants. They're very hard-ass and neutral.

On another note... the "if enemies of Israel lay down their weapons and there'd be peace but if Israel did the same, they'd be destroyed" comment got me thinking... how about the US back a plan like that. Stop all attacks on Israel, chill the fuck out. If Israel doesn't do the same in return, we withdraw all financial and military support. Of course, if the agreement was made in honesty, it'd work... but I REALLY doubt some fucker wouldn't fire a mortar just to keep the status quo.

Oh, hello again!

[warpedskydiver 0]

I read an interesting book, don't remember which one now, that had the Swiss guard acting as protectorate of Israel/Palesinian territories. Yeah, the same dudes who guard the Vatican, but without the funny pants. They're very hard-ass and neutral.

On another note... the "if enemies of Israel lay down their weapons and there'd be peace but if Israel did the same, they'd be destroyed" comment got me thinking... how about the US back a plan like that. Stop all attacks on Israel, chill the fuck out. If Israel doesn't do the same in return, we withdraw all financial and military support. Of course, if the agreement was made in honesty, it'd work... but I REALLY doubt some fucker wouldn't fire a mortar just to keep the status quo.

[Amazon 7]

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Israel Palistinian homicide bombers don’t and havn't ever left the [srtike]Israelis(Jew and Arab alike) alone. If they ever did truly leave them alone maybe there would be a chance. Israel Palistinian Homicide bomers do nothing but antagonize the Palestinian Israeli's. Why don’t they just stop?

There edited it for you since you seem to support this activity.... interesting how it REALLLY works huh Darius?????


Hezbollah and Hamas want to get the Israelis to let these murderers go... the ones who would then get another chance to blow themselves up and be good little martyrs... must be a bitch having to sit in jail.. and not get their dicks into those 72 fucking virgins.

Perhaps if MORE guys in the ME would think with the BIG head....instead of the little head... the world would finally have a chance at peace.

[miked10270 0]

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... Palestine & Israel disbanding their parliaments & militaries and accepting third party mandate. Obviously the UN... But Which country(ies)?

My nomination would be South Africa (for it's experience) & Italy (for it's proximity).

I read an interesting book, don't remember which one now, that had the Swiss guard acting as protectorate of Israel/Palesinian territories.... but I REALLY doubt some fucker wouldn't fire a mortar just to keep the status quo.

Tom Clancy. The Sum of All Fears.

If I remember rightly, that DID have "Some Fucker" firing rather more than a mortar to wreck the peace process.

I did bear in mind that some folk would object to being made redundant by a nasty outbreak of peace! And that any peacekeepers / governors would be a target for a minority on both sides.

That was part of the reason I thought of The South Africans. Not only do they posess the moral high ground and experience of a successful & peaceful unification of separated races BOTH sides of a guerilla war as ANC guerillas & SADF. In fact, I'd bet that some of their senior (former ANC) military trained to exactly the same doctrine & methods as Hamas & Hezb'Allah while I recall a degree of co-operation between IDF & SADF in the past.

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[warpedskydiver 0]

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... Palestine & Israel disbanding their parliaments & militaries and accepting third party mandate. Obviously the UN... But Which country(ies)?

My nomination would be South Africa (for it's experience) & Italy (for it's proximity).

I read an interesting book, don't remember which one now, that had the Swiss guard acting as protectorate of Israel/Palesinian territories.... but I REALLY doubt some fucker wouldn't fire a mortar just to keep the status quo.

Tom Clancy. The Sum of All Fears.

If I remember rightly, that DID have "Some Fucker" firing rather more than a mortar to wreck the peace process.

I did bear in mind that some folk would object to being made redundant by a nasty outbreak of peace! And that any peacekeepers / governors would be a target for a minority on both sides.

That was part of the reason I thought of The South Africans. Not only do they posess the moral high ground and experience of a successful & peaceful unification of separated races BOTH sides of a guerilla war as ANC guerillas & SADF. In fact, I'd bet that some of their senior (former ANC) military trained to exactly the same doctrine & methods as Hamas & Hezb'Allah while I recall a degree of co-operation between IDF & SADF in the past.

Mike.

Mike quit making sense otherwise those people from BF will never come in here to learn!

[Trent 0]

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If I remember rightly, that DID have "Some Fucker" firing rather more than a mortar to wreck the peace process.

That part of my post was unrelated to having neutral peacekeepers. It had to do with the US backing a plan that had the enemies of Israel laying down their arms and rhetoric, and having Israel do the same at penalty of losing all US support.

Oh, hello again!

[idrankwhat 0]

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On another note... the "if enemies of Israel lay down their weapons and there'd be peace but if Israel did the same, they'd be destroyed" comment got me thinking... how about the US back a plan like that. Stop all attacks on Israel, chill the fuck out. If Israel doesn't do the same in return, we withdraw all financial and military support.

You running for office? You've got my vote.

[idrankwhat 0]

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Hezbollah and Hamas want to get the Israelis to let these murderers go... the ones who would then get another chance to blow themselves up and be good little martyrs... must be a bitch having to sit in jail.. and not get their dicks into those 72 fucking virgins.

According to the Ramallah-based Mandela Institute for Human Rights, there are 9,600 Palestinian political prisoners in Israeli jails and detention centers, among them 130 Palestinian women. Defense for Children International puts the number of Palestinian children in Israeli custody at 388.

[Amazon 7]

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Defense for Children International puts the number of Palestinian children in Israeli custody at 388.

I refer you back to those cute little kids in the pictures with suicide vests on........ and havent there been a number of women doing that crap now too????

Is a 15 or 16 year old... who wants a fast track to martyrdom.. still a child???

Innocence in this game is out the window.

[livendive 8]

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Current civilian death toll from the Israeli / Hezb'Allah conflict (from the Beeb):

377 Lebanese.

34 Israeli.

Any idea how they decide which dead Lebanese should be reported as civilians and which as Hezbollah?

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[Amazon 7]

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Any idea how they decide which dead Lebanese should be reported as civilians and which as Hezbollah?

I especially loved the little girl who idolizes Hezbollah and wants to grow up to be a doctor for them.

[idrankwhat 0]

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Defense for Children International puts the number of Palestinian children in Israeli custody at 388.

I refer you back to those cute little kids in the pictures with suicide vests on........ and havent there been a number of women doing that crap now too????

Innocence in this game is out the window.

You're right. You're right. Man, that's a great idea. Let's lock up or kill all of the women and children. It's only genocide if you kill them right? This way it's called "extinction".

On a more serious note, I believe that Israel is in violation of the fourth GC over this prisoner issue. Many of the prisoners are held as "Administrative" detainees which means that they're held without charge or trial for up to 180 days at a time, at which point the detention is renewed for another six months, then another six months, then another.

[bch7773 0]

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Defense for Children International puts the number of Palestinian children in Israeli custody at 388.

i would like to see why these children were jailed... could it be because they were shooting at isrealis?


I can't stand how the terrorists/freedom fighters try to blend in with civilians, then get the world on their side because the civilians get killed!

if they all want to be matyrs so bad, why don't they line up and attack isreal as soldiers instead of being sneaky terrorists that get their family's killed and jailed.

MB 3528, RB 1182

[billvon 3,009]

>Because then, when Israel does what it needs to do and takes out
> the weapons storage areas (which are in schools, backyards,
> mosques, and so on), they are then accused of targeting innocent
> civilians. And of killing kids.

Just a note on this -

The reasoning you use may indeed be valid. However, they have lately been targeting cars with white flags on them, used by civilians who are fleeing the cities. (Indeed, they are fleeing the cities largely _because_ Israel dropped leaflets urging them to do so.) I think that has a lot more to do with the accusations of targeting innocent civilians.

And the launchers Hezbollah are using do not fit in cars. See some pictures below of Katyusha and Fajr-5 launchers.

[Amazon 7]

Kewl.. love the pretty white walls on the Katusha launcher... woo hoo... all pimped and shit.

[akarunway 1]

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Defense for Children International puts the number of Palestinian children in Israeli custody at 388.

I refer you back to those cute little kids in the pictures with suicide vests on........ and havent there been a number of women doing that crap now too????

Innocence in this game is out the window.

You're right. You're right. Man, that's a great idea. Let's lock up or kill all of the women and children. It's only genocide if you kill them right? This way it's called "extinction".

On a more serious note, I believe that Israel is in violation of the fourth GC over this prisoner issue. Many of the prisoners are held as "Administrative" detainees which means that they're held without charge or trial for up to 180 days at a time, at which point the detention is renewed for another six months, then another six months, then another.

Gee. Kinda sounds like another place th U.S. has.

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[Darius11 12]

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Defense for Children International puts the number of Palestinian children in Israeli custody at 388.

I refer you back to those cute little kids in the pictures with suicide vests on........ and havent there been a number of women doing that crap now too????

Innocence in this game is out the window.

You're right. You're right. Man, that's a great idea. Let's lock up or kill all of the women and children. It's only genocide if you kill them right? This way it's called "extinction".

On a more serious note, I believe that Israel is in violation of the fourth GC over this prisoner issue. Many of the prisoners are held as "Administrative" detainees which means that they're held without charge or trial for up to 180 days at a time, at which point the detention is renewed for another six months, then another six months, then another.

Yea I mean non-of us would get pissed if we were imprisoned indefinitely right? I mean those poor Israelis how do such angels piss of people so much that they are willing to kill them selves just to kill a few of them. All brown people are crazy THAT’S IT.

How does that song go “Every body knows the world is full of stupid people” Good song.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Amazon 7]

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I mean those poor Israelis how do such angels piss of people so much that they are willing to kill them selves just to kill a few of them.

More like a culture of DEATH... seeking to take a few innocents along with them rather than making a better life for themselves while they ARE alive.

[Darius11 12]

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Israel Palistinian homicide bombers don’t and havn't ever left the [srtike]Israelis(Jew and Arab alike) alone. If they ever did truly leave them alone maybe there would be a chance. Israel Palistinian Homicide bomers do nothing but antagonize the Palestinian Israeli's. Why don’t they just stop?

There edited it for you since you seem to support this activity.... interesting how it REALLLY works huh Darius?????


Hezbollah and Hamas want to get the Israelis to let these murderers go... the ones who would then get another chance to blow themselves up and be good little martyrs... must be a bitch having to sit in jail.. and not get their dicks into those 72 fucking virgins.

Perhaps if MORE guys in the ME would think with the BIG head....instead of the little head... the world would finally have a chance at peace.

Do you ever try to use facts or just your version of propaganda?

I mean in the past month I don’t think I have seen any of your posts that aren’t just full of BS.

If I am wrong point to where I am lying or making shit up. There is more to debating an issue then getting pissy or writing a cute reply.


Simple questions I asked that non-of the Pro-Israelis can answer without adding six tones of bullshit to there answer.

Who has killed more civilians? Hamas or the Israeli government?

Who has detained (kidnapped in a way) more people from the other side? Israelis or Palestinians.

Who has broken more international law?

The things I described above are they not how you would describe a terrorist organization? A group or country that kills civilians, Detains (kidnaps) people, brakes international law.

Does that description not match Israel?


So instead of making another “cute” replay how about you take a DEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP breath and answer those questions with out adding any BS. Maybe JUST maybe you might get the point.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Amazon 7]

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So instead of making another “cute” replay how about you take a DEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP breath and answer those questions with out adding any BS. Maybe JUST maybe you might get the point.

Gee I make the cute replys because the reality is yes.. Israel does some pretty screwed up things... IN RESPONSE to all the BULLSHIT crap YOUR side... perpetrates in the name of ALLAH....and that is even more fucked up that you will not even ACKNOWLEDGE it.


SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO take a deep breath.... and answer the simplistic answers you continueously evade.

[idrankwhat 0]

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[
Gee I make the cute replys because the reality is yes.. Israel does some pretty screwed up things... IN RESPONSE to all the BULLSHIT crap YOUR side... perpetrates in the name of ALLAH....and that is even more fucked up that you will not even ACKNOWLEDGE it.

Yea, Israel does nothing to provoke/oppress them right?
http://www.humanitarianinfo.org/opt/docs/UN/OCHA/ochaSR_Gaza120406.pdf

[Amazon 7]

Gee your report starts out right to the point.... they are two nations at WAR.... that is the reality... the Israeli's target the leadership who talk young people into strapping on bombs to go into civilian areas on the other side of the border... human bombs....to kill children. The Wonderful humane Palistinians also send over indiscriminate rockets... hoping to kill ANYONE on the other side...

The Israelis.... again target the launch sites( that the wonderful peace loving palistininians) that are placed in civilian areas to make propaganda by the inevitable collateral damage...

RIGHT .. gotta love these macho guys who hide behind their women and children to ensure they get killed when the Israelis strike back.

Very simple really....( Since Darius needs simple answers.) IF.. after withdrawing from GAZA.... the Peace loving Palistinians would just get on with building their contry instead of continueing to attack Israel.... and seeking to kill ALL of the Jews...perhaps.. finally the Jews would not have a reason to lob missles and tanks fire into such a peaceful place.