Israeli Tanks lined up and ready to roll

[billvon 3,009]

>How does one tell who is Hesbollah and who isn't? Do they have
>identifiable uniforms?

Some do, some don't. See below for an example of Hezbollah uniforms. Also see:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/733678.stm

If your question is really "how can the Israelis tell who Hezbollah is and who isn't" it's generally going to be the people shooting at them. Plus the Palestinians just plain defending their city from an invasion, which doesn't require a uniform.

[skydyvr 0]

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So the American Revolution was pulled off by a bunch of pussies?

I addressed that already. Guerilla fighters they were, which is a more acceptable form of "assymetric warfare" than firing missles into foreign lands from the roofs of a private apartment buildings.

Show me cases of like terrorism carried out by american rebels, and I'll feel the same about them.

Conducting warfare from behind women and children is worse than just giving it up.

. . =(_8^(1)

[Amazon 7]

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Or would you defend your house and family?

Would you defend them even harder if the basement was full of ammunition and rockets and RPG's???

How about the local church... heck yeah that is a great place to store thousands of pounds of munitions.

An even bigger place... all those separate school rooms... man what a storage facility...
Sadaam really liked that one. Each room you can segregate your munitions even better.

Hospital rooms work well also. Climate controlled... plenty of room.. and the Red Cross on the roof really makes it a safe place to store/park your mobile launchers.

Face it.... there are a heck of a lot of people on here who will go out of their way to vilify anything the jews do...and I will be the first one to admit I will not support all of the crap they are pulling.... BUT they are in a very tough situation.... a few million of them... against over a few hundred million people who want to see every last one of them dead.. because of who they are. When your enemy will give you no peace.. no matter HOW much time and effort you put into it... then you only have the option of WAR.

[Andy9o8 2]

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If a force invaded your neighborhood, would you run away from your family first thing to fight in an approved area? Or would you defend your house and family?

I would think that if I had fired a rocket from my back yard after it had been stored in my house, I wouldn't be so shocked that a force invaded my neighborhood.

[idrankwhat 0]

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Fox is rolling live cameras in Gaza right now. Now I know some people think even their cameras are biased, but what I see through the cameras are Israeli's coming down the street trying to discern between the not-so-innocent civilians and the militants.

Apparenly the skills at determining friend from foe are pretty lousy. Oh, and get a load of what the idiot on FOX New says. "If you're somebody and you're a long ways away and you just see something and you don't know who it is, sometimes you just start shooting". Moron.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ar0jRu5fDZw&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Felectronicintifada%2Enet%2Fv2%2Farticle4998%2Eshtml

[billvon 3,009]

>Guerilla fighters they were, which is a more acceptable form
> of "assymetric warfare" than firing missles into foreign lands from
> the roofs of a private apartment buildings.

Uh, they didn't have missiles, and they weren't fighting on foreign lands. If they had them they would have used them. And if you'd been fighting back then, you would have used them too. It's called war.

[kallend 2,034]

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If a force invaded your neighborhood, would you run away from your family first thing to fight in an approved area? Or would you defend your house and family?

I would think that if I had fired a rocket from my back yard after it had been stored in my house, I wouldn't be so shocked that a force invaded my neighborhood.

Well, pursuing Bill's analogy, where do you think the American patriots stored their weapons during the Revolutionary War?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 3,009]

>I would think that if I had fired a rocket from my back yard after
>it had been stored in my house, I wouldn't be so shocked that a
>force invaded my neighborhood.

Agreed. And one atrocity would follow another, and we'd have what we have now in the Middle East.

[skydyvr 0]

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They fought from their houses, where the women and children were! They didn't stand in lines like the British did, which is how gentlemen fought!

Amazon beat me to it. Add -- so the British troops marched their rigid lines past all the rebel's houses? I think not. I think in most cases, the rebel was hiding behind a tree when he fired at the gentlemen. Not his wife, a tree.

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If a force invaded your neighborhood, would you run away from your family first thing to fight in an approved area? Or would you defend your house and family?

I wouldn't draw the enemy in there in the first place. Hezbolla does so purposefully, depite how "surprised" they were at the "invasion" they worked so hard to provoke.

. . =(_8^(1)

[skydyvr 0]

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Uh, they didn't have missiles, and they weren't fighting on foreign lands. If they had them they would have used them. And if you'd been fighting back then, you would have used them too. It's called war.

Again, cite me some cases of american rebels firing at the enemy from directly behind women and kids, (and I'm sure you can), and I'll condemn the acts just the same. It's not ok for some, wrong for others.

. . =(_8^(1)

[billvon 3,009]

>I wouldn't draw the enemy in there in the first place.

Where do you store your weapons?

In any case I don't think they were storing/launching weapons in the UN buildings, or in cars fleeing the city.

[skydyvr 0]

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Apparenly the skills at determining friend from foe are pretty lousy.

Or the skills of the pussies to hide and cower are refined to the point of making them difficult to distinguish.

. . =(_8^(1)

[skydyvr 0]

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Where do you store your weapons?

My nail clippers are usually on the desk, and my kitchen knives are in their wooden block on the counter as always.

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In any case I don't think they were storing/launching weapons in the UN buildings, or in cars fleeing the city.

No justification so far for the UN building, but how do you really know where they hide stuff? They seem immune to any principals whatsoever, except that which will get them "their" land back. Hiding missles in mosques is the poster child example of that.

. . =(_8^(1)

[Andy9o8 2]

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>I wouldn't draw the enemy in there in the first place.

Where do you store your weapons?

In any case I don't think they were storing/launching weapons in the UN buildings, or in cars fleeing the city.

Re: the cars fleeing the city, see post #276:

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By the way, I agree that vehicles marked with a red cross or white flag should be off limits to hostile fire. But anyone who thinks Hezbollah fighters do not sometimes utilize such vehicles to hide themselves or their weapons in - in clear violation of the laws of war (specifically because doing that makes such vehicles a target and places non-combatants in jeopardy) - is being naive.

Yes, it's horrible that the rules of engagement apparently bred in response to that have resulted in civilian casualties.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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By the way, I agree that vehicles marked with a red cross or white flag should be off limits to hostile fire. But anyone who thinks Hezbollah fighters do not sometimes utilize such vehicles to hide themselves or their weapons in - in clear violation of the laws of war (specifically because doing that makes such vehicles a target and places non-combatants in jeopardy) - is being naive.

As a frequent poster on this board like to say:

Do you have any actual proof of this happening?

[skydyvr 0]

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As a frequent poster on this board like to say:

Holy shit! I need to get a life.

How do you other frequent posters mange to post all day every day? Are you all retired or something?

. . =(_8^(1)

[billvon 3,009]

>but how do you really know where they hide stuff?

Same way you 'know' they hide behind women and children, I suppose.

This discussion is getting dumb. Hezbollah fighters hide behind women and children. So do Israeli fighters. Hezbollah fighters fire missiles into populated areas. Israeli fighters take out refugees, ambulances and UN peacekeeper sites. Neither side is "doing the right thing." That's because they are at war, and the only determinant of who is "right" in a war is who wins.

If Hezbollah wins (which has a snowball's chance in hell of actually happening) then the history books will record the brave fighters that pushed back the invaders. They'll talk about how they fought from their population centers, and how that saved tens of thousands of lives by letting them win the war and secure their borders.

Does that make what they did right? Not at all. It just makes them winners - and winners write the history books.

People will go to extremes to defend their homes. We are seeing those extremes now. The only way they will end is when BOTH sides stop the fighting.

[Jimbo 0]

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Isn't the US hiding behind UN resolutions as one of the justifications of invading Iraq?

I thought that the US invaded Iraq on the basis of supporting terrorism and possessing weapons of mass destruction.

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Sounds like you are trying to suck and blow at the same time....

No, I don't think so. The UN was ineffective in Iraq just as they are ineffective in Lebanon.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[skydyvr 0]

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People will go to extremes to defend their homes.

The good extreme in this case would be for Hebolla to cease inviting the enemy in. Israel can fight or move out of the area, just that simple.

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We are seeing those extremes now. The only way they will end is when BOTH sides stop the fighting.

Ever bothered to respond to the locally famous "if the Arabs layed down their arms, there would be peace; if Israel layed down their arms, they would be destroyed" quote? I'd like to see your view on that.

. . =(_8^(1)

[billvon 3,009]

>Ever bothered to respond to the locally famous "if the Arabs layed
> down their arms, there would be peace; if Israel layed down their
> arms, they would be destroyed" quote? I'd like to see your view on
> that.

If both sides laid down their arms, there would be peace. If Hezbollah laid down their arms right now and Israel didn't, they'd be rounded up, put in concentration camps and treated about how we treat "illegal combatants" or whatever we're calling them lately. If Israel laid down their arms right now, then the same thing would happen to them (although most of them would probably be shot right off.)

Up until about a month ago, the quote above had some truth to it. Israel was doing far more than Lebanon was in terms of the peace process. Now we have returned to two countries, both at each other's throats, doing whatever they think they have to to 'win.' If there was an easy solution they would have found it decades ago.

[Darius11 12]

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BUT they are in a very tough situation.... a few million of them... against over a few hundred million people who want to see every last one of them dead.. because of who they are.

Just a reminder as once again you are posting BS.

The Jews were not kicked out of Europe by Muslims, but by your fellow Christians.

Do you really think if 58 years ago Palestinian land was not stolen there would be Hezboallah and Palestinians in Europe trying to kill Jews?

That is the most ignorant statement I have ever heard this hour.


I don’t think the Israelis Religion matters to the Lebanese or Palestinian people. What matters is what they have done and keep on doing. Pulling the "they just want to kill Jews card "is always a backup for when supporters of Israel run out of facts.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Amazon 7]

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Just a reminder as once again you are posting BS.

The Jews were not kicked out of Europe by Muslims, but by your fellow Christians.

Do you really think if 58 years ago Palestinian land was not stolen there would be Hezboallah and Palestinians in Europe trying to kill Jews?

That is the most ignorant statement I have ever heard this hour.

I will not retaliate about ignorance..
\ BUT here is the reality you seem to have missed.

The Jews were expelled from your countries...over a million of them. The European survivors of the Holocaust( do YOU believe this happened or do you follow the President of Irans claims??) were in camps and were escaping to the only place they felt would be safe. The British were TRYING to stop them...not expelling them as you claim.

http://www.meforum.org/article/263

Heykal Pasha's thinly veiled threats of "grave disorders," "massacre," "riots," and "war between two races" did not at the time go unnoticed by Jews;2 for them, it had the same ring as the proposition made six years earlier by the Palestinian leader Hajj Amin al-Husayni to Hitler of a "final solution" for the Jews of Arab countries, including Palestine. But the statement appears to have made no lasting impression, to the point that a historian of the Jews in Egypt has described Heykal Pasha as "a well-known liberal."3

Another indication that Arab rulers coordinated the expulsion of Jews from their terrorites comes from a Beirut meeting one and a half years later of senior diplomats from all the Arab States. By this time, March 1949, the Arab states had already lost the first Arab-Israeli war; they now used this defeat to justify an expulsion that had been officially proclaimed before the war even began. As reported in a Syrian newspaper, "If Israel should oppose the return of the Arab refugees to their homes, the Arab governments will expel the Jews living in their countries."7

[miked10270 0]

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Ever bothered to respond to the locally famous "if the Arabs layed down their arms, there would be peace; if Israel layed down their arms, they would be destroyed" quote? I'd like to see your view on that.

If the Lebanese & Palestinians laid down their arms, their homes & way of life would be crushed by Israel. If Israel laid down their arms, their homes & way of life would be crushed by "The Arabs".

Each side sees itself as defending their homes and way of life. each side goes about it in the ways that give them the best guarantee of victory.

Bear in mind that when Palestine was partitioned and the state of Israel created, Israel's FIRST action was to evict the non-Jews. No compensation. "Fuck-Off with what you can carry... NOW!!"

Then, when Israel invaded & occupied the West Bank, Gaza Strip, etc... Which became known as The Occupied Territories", they again evicted non-Jews. Again without compensation.

So... If "the Arabs" lay down their arms, what can they reasonably expect? Will Israel adhere to international pressure for justice? Israel has a history & tradition of doing exactly the opposite as long as Israel wins.

Hence the need for BOTH sides to lay down arms... by force if necessary. Israel & Palestine are ripe for "Regime-Change" & disarmament, with the formation of a new nation NOT based on religion. A "Palestinian Defence Force" capable of defense, not offense.

Of course, this means the "Annihilation of Israel". Not the people, the state.

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[idrankwhat 0]

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Apparenly the skills at determining friend from foe are pretty lousy.

Or the skills of the pussies to hide and cower are refined to the point of making them difficult to distinguish.

I can't believe that you're actually defending Israel shooting at FOX News.....even though I'd like to do it sometimes. This is a prefect example of why I post alternative viewpoints. Everyone gives Israel a pass. If it had been Arabs shooting at FOX I'm willing to bet you'd have a different view.

[idrankwhat 0]

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If the Lebanese & Palestinians laid down their arms, their homes & way of life would be crushed by Israel. If Israel laid down their arms, their homes & way of life would be crushed by "The Arabs".

My take on this is that if Israel laid down their arms then the US and an international force would come protect them. That would not happen if the Lebanese and Palestinians laid down their arms. Israel is not interested in that sort of help because it would necessitate the definition of their borders, which would mean that Israel would lose their ski resort and winery in Golan.