Home Flag Displays Can't be Restricted

[JohnRich 4]

News:

Bush signs bill barring condo, homeowner groups from restricting display of U.S. flags

President Bush on Monday signed a bill that would bar condominium and homeowner associations from restricting how the American flag can be displayed. The resolution would prohibit those groups from preventing residents from displaying an American flag on their own property. It was passed unanimously by both the House and the Senate.

Source: San Diego Union Tribune

Text of legislation: Bill H.R. 42

[AggieDave 6]

There's good taste and there's bad taste. Unfortunately bad homeowners groups have brought this upon themselves. Stand by for some bad-taste reactions due to the homeowner's groups initial actions.

However, I'm definately not a fan of the super-restrictive and power hungry homeowner's groups. So what if you want to paint your house red and have more then 1 tree in the front yard. With that said I can see the situations that drove people to form those groups in response to their own property's value going down due to neighbors.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Gawain 0]

Your title and poll are in conflict with the story.

A law barring private associations from preventing the display of the American flag, is in my opinion, a good law.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Andy9o8 2]

A good law. I'm not insensitive to concerns about property values, but my development doesn't have a homeowners association, and nobody's painted their house in purple polka dots yet. Homeowners associations go way overboard with this kind of control-freak crap - you can't put a political campaign sign in your yard, you can't fly a flagpole if you want, you can't have a plastic kiddie play-set in your yard, you can't have a basketball hoop, etc., etc. F**king Napoleon-complex control freaks, hiding behind the guise of "protecting property values".

I think the law doesn't go far enough - it should prohibit homeowners' associations from enacting bans (which contractually the individual is obligated to comply with) on any activity if that activity is otherwise protected by the First Amendment. (Heck, I might even be willing to include the Second Amendment in that, too!)

Welcome to Stepford. Bend over and cough.

[aftermid 0]

Part of paying the Homeowner Association fees is micromanaging your neighbors. If you want to live in such a place then you should be able to. Let the market not the government decide what is appropriate.

[Andy9o8 2]

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Part of paying the Homeowner Association fees is micromanaging your neighbors. If you want to live in such a place then you should be able to. Let the market not the government decide what is appropriate.

It IS ironic that a conservative Republican administration would promote governmental control over a private activity instead of letting the marketplace decide. But of course it's only about the Flag, not about any of the other (former) rights. Feels so good.
Remember, it's an election year.

[aftermid 0]

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Part of paying the Homeowner Association fees is micromanaging your neighbors. If you want to live in such a place then you should be able to. Let the market not the government decide what is appropriate.

It IS ironic that a conservative Republican administration would promote governmental control over a private activity instead of letting the marketplace decide. But of course it's only about the Flag, not about any of the other (former) rights. Feels so good.
Remember, it's an election year.

Unfortunatly it isn't ironic with this adminstration. Other than the Religous Right and Megabussiness, its hard to find many ways that this administration has advanced any classic conservative platforms:

-smaller government
-less spending
-domestic investment
-less government intrussion

At some point this adiminstration crossed the line from Republicans to Fascists.

[Stumpy 284]

I'm genuinely curious about these associations, we have neighbour groups and stuff but i have heard about the US version before and how difficult they can make life - if you buy a house in one of these areas do you have to join? can you tell them to stick it? what power do they have?

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[JohnRich 4]

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Your title and poll are in conflict with the story.

Um, yeah, that's a bit out of kilter. Good point. But there doesn't seem to be a way to change the poll title once it's created. I assumed that people would read the short excerpt before voting, to find out what the law is all about. I hope that doesn't skew the votes the wrong way.

[nanook 1]

You have to join if you want to live in that community. They will make you sell and get out if you don't comply. There's plusses and minuses of buying inside those neighborhoods (usually more negatives). My association is a little rabid, but they have taken care of a few eyesores, like those cheezy Direct TV dishes. If I can't put a pink flamingo lawn decorator on my lawn, they better not allow that ugly crap up front.

_____________________________

"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[Stumpy 284]

no pink flamingo things? The horror!!!

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[Nightingale 0]

...going outside to put up my flagpole.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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I'm genuinely curious about these associations, we have neighbour groups and stuff but i have heard about the US version before and how difficult they can make life - if you buy a house in one of these areas do you have to join? can you tell them to stick it? what power do they have?

An agreement to abide by the HOA's rules exist as an easement against the deed. When buying the property the seller must provide a copy and the buyer has a few days after that to cancel their contract and get their deposit back. As long as they don't do anything too illegal and get the required number of votes for changing it (2/3 of the owners at our HOA) you're stuck with it.

The HOA rule book tends to be bigger for condominums and town homes.

[JohnnyD 0]

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I think the law doesn't go far enough - it should prohibit homeowners' associations from enacting bans (which contractually the individual is obligated to comply with) on any activity if that activity is otherwise protected by the First Amendment. (Heck, I might even be willing to include the Second Amendment in that, too!)

Welcome to Stepford. Bend over and cough.

I have to disagree completely.
If you don't want to live in a HOA, don't. No one is forcing you to. It irritates the crap out of me when people do things of their own free will then complain about it. To me, its just like the morons in the military that get all bent when they get sent to war. Don't fucking join if you are not going to like the consequenses.
I live in an HOA because I want to. It _does_ protect my property values and there may be some houses in need of some repairs and some dead lawns and some driveways full of oil, but there are no Sanford & Son looking crack houses and that is how I like it.

[nanook 1]

Yeah, I have a place in my heart for plastic pink flamingos. My grandmother used to have them in her front lawn.

I've heard from friends about good HOA's. Not all of them are bad.

_____________________________

"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

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Part of paying the Homeowner Association fees is micromanaging your neighbors. If you want to live in such a place then you should be able to. Let the market not the government decide what is appropriate.

It IS ironic that a conservative Republican administration would promote governmental control over a private activity instead of letting the marketplace decide. But of course it's only about the Flag, not about any of the other (former) rights. Feels so good.
Remember, it's an election year.

If burning a flag is freedom of speach shouldn't flying one be the same?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Nightingale 0]

Try buying a new house in any California suburb. You're going to be stuck with an association.

to answer a question posted further up the thread, yes, when you buy a house in an area controlled by an association you agree to their standards and promise to abide by them. They can do all kinds of nasty things to you if you don't, like crazy fines, and even foreclosing on your home.

My parents live in a great association. The association dues go to maintenance on the clubhouse, pool, and gym, and architectural improvements and new paint must be approved by their committee and two of your neighbors. Beyond that, unless someone's yard has gone to weed, there's awful oil stains on the driveway, or there's a broken down car parked on your lawn, they pretty much leave you alone. They do things that keep property values high, and let you live your life otherwise.

Some of my friends live in awful associations. I've seen association inspectors trample through flower beds and gardens to make sure that overhead trees were no less than four feet from the roof, and writing up a citation when he didn't think they were far enough away. Amusingly, there wasn't anything at all in the association regulations about four feet distances between roofs and trees. These people walk around with clipboards twice a week writing people up for really stupid stuff. I guess they're a bunch of really bored people with nothing better to do, but they're damned annoying.

[rushmc 23]

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Part of paying the Homeowner Association fees is micromanaging your neighbors. If you want to live in such a place then you should be able to. Let the market not the government decide what is appropriate.

It IS ironic that a conservative Republican administration would promote governmental control over a private activity instead of letting the marketplace decide. But of course it's only about the Flag, not about any of the other (former) rights. Feels so good.
Remember, it's an election year.

Unfortunatly it isn't ironic with this adminstration. Other than the Religous Right and Megabussiness, its hard to find many ways that this administration has advanced any classic conservative platforms:

-smaller government
-less spending
-domestic investment
-less government intrussion

At some point this adiminstration crossed the line from Republicans to Fascists.

Again, do you support the burning of the flag?
If so, shouldn't you support someone wanting to fly one?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Nightingale 0]

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Again, do you support the burning of the flag?

I don't support the burning of the flag, but i support the right to do so. There is a difference.

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If so, shouldn't you support someone wanting to fly one?

I think so, as long as it's not done in an obnoxious way. A little apartment doesn't need a twenty foot flag that blocks the window of the guy upstairs. As long as it's a normal size flag, I think they should be able to fly/hang one.

[jakee 1,489]

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Again, do you support the burning of the flag?

Shouldn't the question be 'Do you support the right to homeowners associations to ban burning of the flag?'

Otherwise you're just confusing the issue.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Andy9o8 2]

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I have to disagree completely.

What can I say? I've raised this rant before, and there's usually a homeowner who feels the way you do who responds...the way you did. Not saying you're wrong, it's just different strokes for different folks.

FWIW, when we we home-shopping before we bought our current house some years ago, we did exactly what you said - made a point of avoiding the developments with homeowners' associations and restrictive covenants on the deeds. To each his own, I guess.

[rushmc 23]

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Again, do you support the burning of the flag?

Shouldn't the question be 'Do you support the right to homeowners associations to ban burning of the flag?'

Otherwise you're just confusing the issue.

OK, nice point!

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[akarunway 1]

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no pink flamingo things? The horror!!!

Try putting that little statue of the black jockey in your front yard. They had a shit fit over that one. LOL

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[akarunway 1]

Quote

Quote

Again, do you support the burning of the flag?

I don't support the burning of the flag, but i support the right to do so. There is a difference.

Quote

If so, shouldn't you support someone wanting to fly one?

An episode of Frazier comes to mind. That was a funny one
I think so, as long as it's not done in an obnoxious way. A little apartment doesn't need a twenty foot flag that blocks the window of the guy upstairs. As long as it's a normal size flag, I think they should be able to fly/hang one.

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[Shotgun 1]

Bad law.

If you don't like the rules of your HOA, either choose to live somewhere that has different rules or no HOA, or make the effort to get the bylaws changed.

Why is Congress even spending time and money on this sort of thing?