Bombardment of the UN Lebanon post

[TheAnvil 0]

I'm not discussing murder in the streets of New York or San Francisco - I'm discussing foreign policy and war.

This line of discussion is yet another example of why the left is in serious trouble in this country. Any discussion on any issue - even the Israeli-Hezbollah fiasco in Lebanon - ultimately shifts back to either GWB or the war in Iraq.

In your example here, you go from the US defeat of Saddam Hussein's regime to the current fiasco insurgency. Two steps, vice the current one step type of logic I use in the Hezbollah/Israeli conflict. Why not go back several more steps to Hulegu's defeat of the Caliph in Baghdad several centuries ago and blame the current situation in Iraq on Hulegu? I hear that if Cornwallis had won at Yorktown history might have turned out differently as well.

The Hezbollah kidnapping of the soldiers is the current cause of the bombing in Lebanon. Telling the Israelis to sit back and do nothing is not going to do any good - and a flawed policy to pursue.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[StreetScooby 5]

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You mean, like THIS?

With all your skills, kallend, you could have set a better context for that type of reply in this debate, IMO, especially considering it's to a UK brethren.

shropshire, it only happened once, by a mayor who was deemed incompetent. FYI.

We are all engines of karma

[pop 0]

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When you live in an area where neighbours on all sides of you have been trying to eliminate you for dozens of years...what are you supposed do?

Move out.

bsbd!

Yuri.

and go where?

7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer

[StreetScooby 5]

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This line of discussion is yet another example of why the left is in serious trouble in this country.

This is a good, timely, read for this debate:
http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/is_it_really_opedcolumnists_john_podhoretz.htm

The opinionist asks the question:

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Is the impulse to fault America and Israel for failing to achieve a pristine standard of civilized conduct in war always rooted in deep humanitarian concerns? Or are many of those who do so actually seeking to blame America and Israel for choosing to use military means to defend themselves and defeat a conscienceless and evil enemy?

It's an interesting question. I'm afraid the answer is yes, and becoming more so. I do see fundamentalist Muslims as a threat to my/our future way of life. I'm sure we could be far more effective in our approach if not for the "rules of war", of which they don't abide.

We are all engines of karma

[outrager 6]

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and go where?

My jewish friends in New York do very well... that's where i'd go.

bsbd!

Yuri.

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and go where?

My jewish friends in New York do very well... that's where i'd go.

bsbd!

Yuri.

hmm...good idea!!

7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer

[Amazon 7]

Face it Darius.. if Hezbollah could kill a million jews.. they would.... and how would you feel about that????


You are supporting the side that are the real racists and you cant see it.

[shropshire 0]

That's a really strange argument.... Because some Arabs (Hezbollah) are killing, it's O.K for Israel to kill innocents... Not so? Then why are they doing so? They are and it;'s just plain wrong.

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(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Amazon 7]

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That's a really strange argument.... Because some Arabs (Hezbollah) are killing, it's O.K for Israel to kill innocents... Not so? Then why are they doing so? They are and it;'s just plain wrong.

They are killing far less than they could be...Those are typically called collateral damage.... those killed by mistake in the fog of war...
Perhaps the Israelis should just start killing them all as in the combat zone as some here claim they are "ethnic cleansing".( which you and they know is a specious arguement but will continue to make it because of their hatred of jews.)

[shropshire 0]

<> - Well that's O.K then. For a moment, I thought that dead or displaced suffering kids might actually stand for something - silly me.

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(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

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That's a really strange argument.... Because some Arabs (Hezbollah) are killing, it's O.K for Israel to kill innocents... Not so? Then why are they doing so? They are and it;'s just plain wrong.

.

Remeber, its the Arabs that strap bombs on themselves, and get on a bus, or walk into a coffe shop and kill innocent Israelis. Dont forget that.

7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer

[Amazon 7]

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Remeber, its the Arabs that strap bombs on themselves, and get on a bus, or walk into a coffe shop and kill innocent Israelis. Dont forget that.

That certainly does nto seem to count... hell they are jews.. so they MUST be guilty.. since all of them are combatants.

[kallend 2,027]

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You mean, like THIS?

With all your skills, kallend, you could have set a better context for that type of reply in this debate, IMO, especially considering it's to a UK brethren.

shropshire, it only happened once, by a mayor who was deemed incompetent. FYI.

What does his nationality have to do with it?

Only happened once? Wow, is that a good excuse for murder?
Seems to me that it illustrates a certain mindset of "the authorities", also seen in Waco and Ruby Ridge.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[jaaska 0]

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That's a really strange argument.... Because some Arabs (Hezbollah) are killing, it's O.K for Israel to kill innocents... Not so? Then why are they doing so? They are and it;'s just plain wrong.

They are killing far less than they could be...Those are typically called collateral damage.... those killed by mistake in the fog of war...
Perhaps the Israelis should just start killing them all as in the combat zone as some here claim they are "ethnic cleansing".( which you and they know is a specious arguement but will continue to make it because of their hatred of jews.)

So... Sending in fliers saying "This is a combat zone, leave your homes or you will be identified as terrorists" and then bombing the civilians as they flee, makes perfect sense to you? I mean, if you don't leave, you are a terrorist, if you do, you will die... Nice options. So, bombing of the refugee convoys or humanitarian aid convoys makes perfect sense to you?

BTW, H-bollah is as bad, hiding behind civilians and observes - I would only expect Israel to be less like "the terrorists" they are fighting and more like a civilized country...

PS. A funny joke I saw on TV last night:

What is the definition of an aggressive military action?

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A: An attack without an approval of the USA...


If any other country than Israel would be bombing it's neighbour as widely and with such a high count of "collateral damage", US might have a different view of the situation... "We must act at once, before we face a humanitarian disaster - we must force them to cease fire at once!

[shropshire 0]

<>>

Grrrrrr .100% WRONG - noone, certainly not me EVER said that. and puting words into other peoples mouth is an absurd SC tactic

Killing innocents (any innocents) is wrong, and counter-productive.


<jews Arabs.. so they MUST be guilty.. since all of them are combatants>>.


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(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[shropshire 0]

<>

If ALL Arabs did that you'd have a point, but as they dont the statement is false (at best).
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(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[miked10270 0]

Interestingly... As Israel is failing to either damage Hezb'Allah OR establish a security zone (quite the reverse)... Dubbie chooses this moment to now want an international peacekeeping force to move in.

Still no demands for a ceasefire though. And America's bombs just keep getting delivered.

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[jakee 1,500]

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That certainly does nto seem to count... hell they are jews.. so they MUST be guilty.. since all of them are combatants.

Don't be fucking stupid, no one on this site has said that all Jews are guilty. No one but you has even linked this to religion.

On the flip side several people have dismissed the possibility that any Lebanese civilians may have been killed. "Any one who is still in southern Lebanon must be a terrorist. And those guys we killed who were fleeing, and the ambulances, and the useless UN soldiers. Yeah they all must have had guns and stuff in their vehicles!"

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Amazon 7]

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If ALL Arabs did that you'd have a point, but as they dont the statement is false (at best).

They certainly do celebrate them as martyrs.. and put up thier posters along the roads.. on buildings etc.. as role models for their children. If the Israelis are killing the enemy in an area that gives overwhelming support for the terrorists.. then PERHAPS the Arabs have supported the wrong people to protect them... jsut as I heard some stupid woman telling the world how well Hezbollah has protected her... in her neighborhood that is being targeted BECAUSE Hezbollah is there... with their leadership... and arms caches.

[StreetScooby 5]

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Killing innocents (any innocents) is wrong, and counter-productive.

God is best discussed as a verb. Not as a noun.

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If ALL Arabs did that you'd have a point, but as they dont the statement is false (at best).

So, how do you tell the difference?
In the meantime, do we just let "them" keep killing us?
That's not a long term solution for our way of life.

We are all engines of karma

[StreetScooby 5]

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What does his nationality have to do with it?

Only happened once? Wow, is that a good excuse for murder?

Seems to me that it illustrates a certain mindset of "the authorities", also seen in Waco and Ruby Ridge.

kallend, I was referring to your mindset in these threads. Clearly, you didn't get that. It really disappoints me.

We are all engines of karma

[falxori 0]

although I didn't read the whole thread, let me get this straight.

first, you say that it was deliberate because Israel used precision weapons so if it hits something it means that it meant to hit it.
then you say that it was deliberate because there were several earlier tries that missed.

its war, and its a war which is faught in a small area. and it might shock you but some of Israel's casualties were a result of friendly fire (which happens in any war).
Israel has nothing to gain from hurting UN poeple beside bad publicity which it gets enough of as it is.

O

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[StreetScooby 5]

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That's a really strange argument.... Because some Arabs (Hezbollah) are killing, it's O.K for Israel to kill innocents... Not so? Then why are they doing so?

How do you tell them apart?

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They are and it;'s just plain wrong.

You're right. The Hiz's are wrong, at this point in time/history. The Israelis are attacking a 2 mile wide border area. the Hiz's are sending random f-k'ing missles all over Israel.

You're right, that's just wrong.

We are all engines of karma

[jakee 1,500]

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You're right. The Hiz's are wrong, at this point in time/history. The Israelis are attacking a 2 mile wide border area. the Hiz's are sending random f-k'ing missles all over Israel.

Israel has been bombing Lebanese facilities north of Beirut! In case you don't have a map handy thats a little more than 2 miles across the border.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[shropshire 0]

Hi "Street",

Please bear in mind that I've made every effort to turn fence sitting into an art form on this and other related threads. I have nowhere sided with the terrorists of either flavour. My primary concern in all of this nonsense, is for the innocents caught, through no particular fault of their own in the way of monsters and bully boys.

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(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome