Downhill mountain biker suspended for T-shirt mocking transgender rider

[Darius11 12]

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But altering your gender and then usung it as a way to propel yourself in a gender-specific sporting event, is bullshit. But it is also not surprising, coming from someone who would do that in the first place.

I highly doubt that anyone would go through the surgery just for sporting event reasons. Do some research on the psych testing required prior to surgery, then read up on the extent of work required for the surgery, plus the therapy required post op, including how painful it is. Then factor in the psychosocial aspects of going through sex change, being shunned and ridiculed by a very large percent of the population on a daily basis.

Although I have no interest in growing parts I wasn't born with and can't identify with the need/desire to do so, I have to respect the courage that the people who go that route show. It can't be easy, it takes more strength than I could ever have.

Gee, I wonder how long it will take for this thread to hop over to Speakers Corner?

I am sure that it is a very hard decision.

Let’s not lose focus of the thread. The question is not if it was a choice (which I don’t believe it is) or not.

What I think is being asked is it fair to all the other woman who work so hard to have to compete with someone who has a sexual advantage on them for the sake of being PC?


I don’t think it is fair to all the other woman. I also think if you know your were born a different sex and have much more muscle mass then the woman just for being born a male you should have enough decency not to take the rightful place of someone else.

I don’t blame the 2nd place winner for being pissed off. If I were her I would be pissed too.

Now if there is science that says once you go under hormone therapy, and get surgery you lose all of your male capabilities then I stand corrected.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[billvon 2,991]

>If you are going to compete in gender-specific competitions, you
>should have to stay in the gender you were born.

OK, question for you.

You are born, and you think you're a woman. Boobs, vagina, all that. You start seriously competing in track. You are a superstar, and may have a scholarship lined up based on your performance.

Then you find out you are genetically a man; you're XY. Would you have surgery to "stay the gender you were born?"

>But altering your gender and then usung it as a way to propel
>yourself in a gender-specific sporting event, is bullshit. But it is also
> not surprising, coming from someone who would do that in the first
> place.

If you really want to understand this, I'd suggest the book "She's not there" by Jennifer Boylan. Safe to say that she did not change her sex to compete in anything; she changed it so she could stay sane.

[jakee 1,489]

I'm going to go with Darius on this one. Fact is, men have the capacity to be faster and stranger than women and similar training regimes will produce greater effects in a shorter time in men, right?

Now unless the combinations of surgery and hormone therapy etc. wipe out that entire physiological advantage* then she should not be allowed to compete. Sure its unfair to her but it was her choice, and allowing her to compete is unfair to everyone else.

*If that is the case then consider this post null and void

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Steel 0]

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I agree with you 100%. The problem is, it is similar as if a white biker wore a shirt that said, "100 Percent White Power Biker." There would be people who would be up in arms about it because it is "racist" and is directed against blacks. But if a black biker wore a shirt that said "100 Percent Black Power Biker," they wouldn't have a problem with it because it is just "celebrating their race."

The transgendered biker can wear a shirt that says, "Transgender cyclist and proud of it." But the other cyclist can't wear a shirt that says, "100% Pure woman" because that is directed at the transgenered biker and not a pride thing.

It's fucked up.

There certainly would be no suspension if the roles were reversed.

I will say that this is the only post you have made in this thread that is 100% accurate. I agree that there would be no suspension if the roles were reversed.

However, there is a blatant reason for that, which you are ignoring. There are implied statements in both senarios which are or would be obvious. The 100% woman is suggesting that the transexual has an unfair advantage from being genetically male. The transexual would clearly be about pride in herself.

Although this does raise doubt, I am not so sure I agree. The transexual does not have testicles and has lowered her testoserone levels as low as a genetic female. Also she is on estrogen pills for the rest of her life. This often causes severe health complications and consequently a high percentage of these people live shorter lives. They are like on a permanent anti-steroid cycle for life.

Finally to state that somebody would undergo the pre-requisites and then this surgery specifically for a sports advantage is a laughable or ignorant statement at best.
,

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[goodnplentygirl 0]

This may be slightly off the subject, but since we are in the speakers corner....

If a man has a sex change and is now a "woman" (which I am absolutely ok with) and she can participate in events that other women can, like sporting events, then why cant she also participate in other things that naturally born women can, like marriage?

my body, my choice

[billvon 2,991]

>If a man has a sex change and is now a "woman" (which I am
> absolutely ok with) and she can participate in events that other
> women can, like sporting events, then why cant she also participate
> in other things that naturally born women can, like marriage?

In many cases, she can. This has resulted in some same-sex marriages in states that would otherwise outlaw them. No one has yet come up with legislation that would mandate a divorce if one person in a heterosexual marriage changes their sex.

[goodnplentygirl 0]

Oh, I guess I was just under the impression that it was outlawed as well.

my body, my choice

[Steel 0]

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>If a man has a sex change and is now a "woman" (which I am
> absolutely ok with) and she can participate in events that other
> women can, like sporting events, then why cant she also participate
> in other things that naturally born women can, like marriage?

In many cases, she can. This has resulted in some same-sex marriages in states that would otherwise outlaw them.

No one has yet come up with legislation that would mandate a divorce if one person in a heterosexual marriage changes their sex.

You know that is an interesting senario, and although its happened, I don't think its happened often enough that lawmakers find it worth making a law about. I think far more often than not, those marriages fall apart.
,

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[78RATS 0]

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i can promise that if ever decide to get a cock stitched onto the front of my vagina and have the hole sewn closed, i will not feel it necessary to play in the NFL or participate in any other manly sports.

That's some funny shit right there.

Rat for Life - Fly till I die
When them stupid ass bitches ask why

[billvon 2,991]

>I don't think its happened often enough that lawmakers find it worth
>making a law about.

I think you're right. Most people don't even consider these issues.

>I think far more often than not, those marriages fall apart.

Hmm. I only know of four, and three are still together. (One was ended by death.) Which is significantly better than the current US average, which is around a 47% divorce rate.

[GTAVercetti 0]

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Hmm. I only know of four, and three are still together. (One was ended by death.) Which is significantly better than the current US average, which is around a 47% divorce rate.

Bill, truth never trumps truthiness. How we THINK things are is far more accurate than how they actually are.

Geez man, get with it.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[freethefly 6]

Did a search to see just how big she is. No bigger than the majority of the women who compete. Some of the women are pretty damn big. This Michelle seems to be on the smaller side from what I found doing the search. That being said, I have never met (not to my knowledge) a transsexual person untill I used the AIDS clinic in St. Louis (being HIV+, one tends to come in contact with a wide spectrum of people whom one may not otherwise meet). One woman who volunteered there unless you knew, you would never guess it. I was, at first, uncomfortable being around gay people and transsexuals. I was very prejudgedice and openly hated them before HIV entered my life. Turned out that they are just like everyone else. Different lifestyle but, for the most part they are just people living their life the best they can. No different than anyone else once you shed your ignorance and get to know them.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[kelpdiver 2]

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Finally to state that somebody would undergo the pre-requisites and then this surgery specifically for a sports advantage is a laughable or ignorant statement at best.

Laughable? When we've seen what athletes will do? When we think of past 'women' like Stella Walsh?

It's far fetched, esp for a niche sport like downhill cycling. I think instead she has merely taken advantage of her physiology and should be required to compete in open or men's competition.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Best post of this whole damn thread.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[billvon 2,991]

> I was very prejudgedice and openly hated them before HIV entered
> my life. Turned out that they are just like everyone else. Different
> lifestyle but, for the most part they are just people living their life
> the best they can. No different than anyone else once you shed your
> ignorance and get to know them.

Yep. Indeed, once someone sheds their preconceptions, they may discover that some of the people they respect - even some leaders in our sport, for example - are gay. And other than that they're pretty much like everyone else.

[warpedskydiver 0]

I am still not gonna fuck her

[jakee 1,489]

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Yep. Indeed, once someone sheds their preconceptions, they may discover that some of the people they respect - even some leaders in our sport, for example - are gay. And other than that they're pretty much like everyone else.

I am firmly in the pro gay rights camp, have lived with gay housemates for the last two years and support anyones right to find a way to be comfortable with their sexuality. I say this to distinguish myself from people who might just think she's a godless unnatural weirdo.

I still see this as an issue of fairness. If despite the effects of surgery and hormones her physiology is still giving her an advantage over born females (and she is winning) then I feel it is unfair for her to continue to compete in that category.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Keith 0]

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Right back at ya big boy!

HEY? How did you know I have a "big boy?" Have you been peeping in my window again?

Keith

Don't Fuck with me Keith - J. Mandeville

[billvon 2,991]

>I still see this as an issue of fairness.

I don't, really. Whatever the rules state, that's what's fair. If the rules for a competition state that it's legal to use steroids - it's legal. Using them is fair. If the rules state you can't, then you can't. Using them and getting kicked out of a race is fair. People can decide up front if they like the rules. If they don't like them, they don't have to compete.

In some cases there may be disputes as new issues arise, like the (relatively) new ability to change gender. Then the rules get amended and the same thing happens.

[jakee 1,489]

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Whatever the rules state, that's what's fair. If the rules for a competition state that it's legal to use steroids - it's legal.

And then I'd stop watching that sport.

Rules always have loopholes, getting through them doesn't mean you're playing fair.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[billvon 2,991]

>And then I'd stop watching that sport.

Exactly. And if everyone did that, then that particular competition would cease to exist, and the remaining ones would not allow drug usage.

>Rules always have loopholes, getting through them doesn't
>mean you're playing fair.

I think by definition it does. Vertical moves and cheater grips - I don't think those were envisioned in the original IPC/FAI rules, but 4-way teams use em now and go faster because of them. But I agree that if someone uses them and you don't like it, or the rules explicitly allow it and you think that's unfair, then not participating/watching is a good solution.

[SpeedRacer 1]

I think we should all keep in mind that mountain biking is very dangerous:

clicky

and this woman isn't wearing an offensive T-shirt, and look what happens to her!

Speed Racer
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[CanuckInUSA 0]

I just watched the five minute preview of "100% Woman" a 60 minute documentary about Michelle and my view of the matter should be left to her peers and fellow competitors. If enough of these women think that Michelle shouldn't be racing, then she shouldn't be racing. But for the time being, she's having the time of her life competiting in a sport at the elite level and you can't fault her for that.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[SkyDekker 1,465]

A lttle drift:

In Canada your driver's license number in a somewhat conveluded way indicates if you are legally male or female. Is there such a thing in the US?

[Steel 0]

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Hmm. I only know of four, and three are still together. (One was ended by death.) Which is significantly better than the current US average, which is around a 47% divorce rate.

Bill, truth never trumps truthiness. How we THINK things are is far more accurate than how they actually are.

Geez man, get with it.

Bill took a best guess from the information he had available. I took a best guess from the information I had available, hence the preceeding words "I think".
On the other hand if you THINK that even though there are thousands of these case in the U.S. alone that Bill's assessment based on 4 specials that he saw on T.V. or whereever he saw them are the accurate "truth", then that says something about your reasoning and mathematical capabilities.

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.