Lucky... 0
Lucky... 0
QuoteActually, you want the dems to run Hillary as a candidate. That way the other candidate, whoever that might be, will be a shoe in.
The left is dead, we are seeing the last gasps of the slow and painful death of the dems.
And you're elated after the last 3 repub presidnets being repsonsible for like 70% of the total national debt? Are you proud of Bundy too?
Lucky... 0
QuoteQuoteWhat I would like to see is the BEST person for the job, not simply an ideologue.
Simply not an option. The days of moderates are over. Only the extremes are player in todays climate. Unless and until the current fad of religion driven politics fades ( an equally unlikely event), then the extremes, and only the extremes, will have a voice.
The reason the Right has won is that there are 2 groups that belong to the right: The religious zealots and the fiscal righties, the original GOPers. They are too great a force by numbers to overcome, but that doesn't mean they are the best or have the best ideas / ideologies, just that they votethe way they do for very linear reasons w/o looking at the global pictue, then wonder why the country is so fucked up.
Also, if you look at history you will find a trend of parties holding power and an event to swing the pendulum the other way. In the early 30's it was the GOP's fiscal irresponsibility that caused Hoover to get pasted. Then the Dems held power forever until LBJ signed minorities rights bills, which swung the Yellow Dog Dems to the right, as they were known as biggots.
Now we have this Republican mess of massive debt and runaway deficit and class separation, invasions of privacy, $3.00 gal for gas and wars with no purpose, .... I'm thinking these will turn the tide the other way. As you can see they are trying like hell to pull the religious nuts back into the picture with their morning after pill fight, stem cell veto and their homophobe bill attempt. Anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together can see that the GOP uses the religious nutjob vote as a tool.
Lucky... 0
QuoteOK, here's the deal: The dems should be able to beat the right with half their brain cells tied behind their back. BUT THEY CAN"T. They can't even win a school board election with a platform of actually teaching science in science class. They can't even win local seat in my home state of Maryland, one of the most democratic states in the northeast. When a party becomes THAT irrelevant, it's time to pack up and go home. The sooner the dems go the way of the Whigs, the better. Maybe we on the left can even save the constitution before the right gets done with trashing it completely.
All of the issues you stated would be, if the shoe was on the other foot, the death knell for the party in charge. But. for some reason, this never sticks to the right. Clinton never would have got away with starting a war of aggression based on false intel, and bankrupting the treasury in the process, but because it's Shurubya, no one says a word. No president on the left would have gotten away with illegal wire taps and outing CIA agents, but let the right do it, and it's totally OK.
All of this and the left is totally, completely paralyzed. Time to move on.
QuoteWhen a party becomes THAT irrelevant, it's time to pack up and go home. The sooner the dems go the way of the Whigs, the better.
Even if the left did go away, the right would then split and possibly become a group of religious nuts vs a party of GOP poor people haters. The thing with the right is that it divides, just as the Nazi Party did. Any time you have gross intollerance you will have division, and it shouldn't take a Great Depression to wake people up, but it does.
QuoteAll of the issues you stated would be, if the shoe was on the other foot, the death knell for the party in charge. But. for some reason, this never sticks to the right.
Not lately, but it did in 1932 when most Americans voted out Hoover by a landslide. Then retained FDR for 4 terms and then Truman for what, 2 more was it? Point is, this county lives in a denial until the wheels come off, then wake up.
QuoteClinton never would have got away with starting a war of aggression based on false intel, and bankrupting the treasury in the process, but because it's Shurubya, no one says a word.
Is that a proud point? The Dems aren't so pathetic they get a Ken Star to hound bogus charges and file them. I'm not so sure that Clinton couldn't have gotten away with starting a false war tho, name a president that was ever charged with starting or perpetuating a BS war? Hell knows we have a history of them, yet no charges.
QuoteNo president on the left would have gotten away with illegal wire taps and outing CIA agents, but let the right do it, and it's totally OK.
So are we glad the corrutpion comes from the right? Are we proud that these are never charged? Are you saying we should continue to elect repiublicans becuase they have figured out a way to scamthe system?
QuoteAll of this and the left is totally, completely paralyzed.
How so? I do believe the left will win the House, probably not the Senate but possibly. It's been 2 terms since the last Dem pres, so let's be patient.
Lucky... 0
QuoteI don't think the Dems are dead yet, but I do feel they are headed in that direction.
What was it, 6 terms in a row for the Dems during the FRD / Truman era? Were people throwing in the Repub towel then? Please........
Lucky... 0
QuoteQuote
All of the issues you stated would be, if the shoe was on the other foot, the death knell for the party in charge. But. for some reason, this never sticks to the right. Clinton never would have got away with starting a war of aggression based on false intel, and bankrupting the treasury in the process, but because it's Shurubya, no one says a word. No president on the left would have gotten away with illegal wire taps and outing CIA agents, but let the right do it, and it's totally OK.
All of this and the left is totally, completely paralyzed. Time to move on.
It does baffle the mind. Personally, I'd love to see political parties done away with. They're counterproductive. But actually, now that I think about it, they HAVE been done away with. There's really not that much difference between the D's and the R's. They're both beholden to corporate lobbyists. Corporations decide who get's elected, then they actually write the legislation, they help form foreign policy and then to top it off, the same corporations use their own media entities to sell all of this to the American people. You get your news, entertainment, cars, clothes, food, fuel, legislation and foreign policy, and in some cases, opinion, all from the same people. It's quite a racket when you stand back to look at it.
Ypu've just defined Corporatism, an element of Fascism.
Lucky... 0
QuoteI'd say completely inept. They keep proving it over and over again. Republicans have abandoned fiscal conservatism and pissed off their base, but what the left offers is so unpalatable they motivate conservatives to the polls in droves to vote against them.
The current crises facing America, IMHO, are the budget deficit and our education system. The left has no credibility on either. I think a lot of moderate republicans agree with me on that (I'm libertarian for the most part) and will never vote for a candidate who proposes ideas that will increase mandatory spending and would be beholden to the NEA and seek to maintain the status quo of our nation's school systems by funneling $$ into them and not addressing the underlying issues that keep our schools dumbed down. Without moderates from the Right crossing over to the left, the Dems are doomed to defeat.
No, not inept, it's due to the religious nuts who would vote left but for the Jesus card. Furthermore, the fact that the Hispanic population is the fastets growing demographic in teh US, they are more often right.
QuoteThe current crises facing America, IMHO, are the budget deficit and our education system. The left has no credibility on either.
How can you leave out exclusive health care? Uh, and how is it that the left sucks when Clinton turn ed the debt horizontal after the 7th year and actually left with a 330B surplus his last year? He had the cookies to raise taxes on the rich with his 1993 Omnibus spending bill, which blossomed into later gains in debt reductions. Who else has the nuts to raise taxes on the rich?
As for Libertarian, they are worse than the right as far as social programs go. Libertarians hate rightwing inasions/controls, but hate leftwing social programs, which is inane.
Nevada just passed a law that you cannot feed the homeless, the Libertarian protocol applaiudes this..... sad.
Lucky... 0
QuoteQuote
The current crises facing America, IMHO, are the budget deficit and our education system.
If I remember correctly, the Dems had us a surplus until repubs came and shit it away.
(I'm libertarian for the most part)
And you are not a libertarian, I have met you a few times in Z-Hills
. Do you remember me? I am Shrek's wife. 
QuoteIf I remember correctly, the Dems had us a surplus until repubs came and shit it away.
I agree. Bush's horseshit was something about the gov not holding onto our money. Well, when we take of our little 8.5 Trillion $ debt then I agree, but until then we are holding onto the gov's money and need to raise taxes to get back even.
Lucky... 0
QuoteQuoteQuote
The current crises facing America, IMHO, are the budget deficit and our education system.
If I remember correctly, the Dems had us a surplus until repubs came and shit it away.
Uh no, we still had a trade imbalance and did not pay off our nations foreign debts.
I'm libertarian
But I have and will continue to vote for the candidate that scares me the least.
QuoteUh no, we still had a trade imbalance and did not pay off our nations foreign debts.
We've had a trade imbalance for at least 2 decades. WHat Clinton and the Congress did was to raise taxes for the rich to generate more tax revenue to pay down the debt. This worked and Bush reveresed that, which is the main reason we are 3 trillion more in debt than we were before Bush took office. When Clinton was in for 8, the debt rose only 1.5 T befoe he could turn it around and left office with it running horizontal.
There's much, much more to the debt than just trade imbalances.
Lucky... 0
Quote'tis the lack of anything new that's one of the main reason I think they're doomed. It's new ideas that are needed to resolve the financial crisis we're facing. Ditto for the nation's education problems, though I really believe they should be resolved at the state level for the most part.
A massive new NEA funding bill would be discretionary spending in all likelihood. One shudders to think about fed $$ funding a leftist union such as the NEA. One could put mandatory spending in there I suppose if it were worded correctly.
The war is mostly discretionary spending, though it will lead to more mandatory spending in the future with regards to benefits, etc.
The war only accounts for no more than 15% of the total national debt increase under Bush, but is convenient for the righties to misdirect onto as a cause for debt increase. The major reason for the debt increase is the tax breaks for the rich. The debt is 2-sided: tax receipts versus spending. Bush has done a fantastic job of cutting tax receipts and increasing spending, while not on social programs.
Lucky... 0
QuoteThe surplus was created under a conservative Congress...Congress appropriates.
I'm not a good libertarian, but I'd be a really horrid Republican. My support of drug legalization and refusal to support a total ban on abortion alone wouldn't win me many friends at an RNC convention. I'd certainly be better received there than at a DNC convention, however.
Your avatar is ingenious for being Shrek's wife. I remember you now...the campfire...
Well, they took control in 94, a couple years into Clintons term. Also, I guess it was those Republican Congressment who cut the military along with CLinton, right?
http://www.okimc.org/newswire.php?story_id=165&condense_comments=false
"Republicans are blaming Senator John Kerry, but it was a republican with the name of Dick Cheney who was in charge of cutting the military under the first President Bush, ..."
Tink1717 2
QuoteAnd you're elated after the last 3 repub presidnets being repsonsible for like 70% of the total national debt? Are you proud of Bundy too?
No. I'm not proud of any of that. I'm as left as the day is long and I and my fellow lefties have been abandoned by the dems. They are totally irrelevant to the process and are an impediment to the getting some real representation at any level for liberal causes. I wish the dems would evaporate so that a new party cold fill the void.
Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off.
-The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!)
AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717
-The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!)
AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717
Lucky... 0
QuoteQuoteAnd you're elated after the last 3 repub presidnets being repsonsible for like 70% of the total national debt? Are you proud of Bundy too?
No. I'm not proud of any of that. I'm as left as the day is long and I and my fellow lefties have been abandoned by the dems. They are totally irrelevant to the process and are an impediment to the getting some real representation at any level for liberal causes. I wish the dems would evaporate so that a new party cold fill the void.
What are the Dems doing to not make themselves left wing? They aren't winning, butthat has a lot to do with this flase stereotype that the Dems are tax-n-spenders, soft on military and all around weak. Hard to support that, but due to right wing fear-mongering and Christian fundies banging their fists on the pulpit of morality the right is absolved of having to actually argue anything rational or even on-topic. Look at the Grey Davis / Schwarzenegger debate; Arnold refused to even debate him once, just made some kind of open statement that he was unwilling to respond to. When you have a party of closed-minded robots unwilling to reason, you don't have to reasonable, just there. These are reasons why the left has lost...... if you look at results thee is no rational argument as to why the Repubs have been in power as long as they have.
TheAnvil 0
You really should read up a bit on the news - especially wth regards to the budget. If you were up on your facts you'd realize that tax revenues are actually pouring into the treasury in the wake of GWB's tax cuts - including tax cuts for the rich, who pay the majority of the taxes. The Economist had a nice article on that either last week or the week before. Stop by your local library and read it if you like. Your 'tax the rich' mantra holds little merit and asserting that such a tax increase would cure the deficit in light of CBO/OMB projections is quite humorous.
If you were familiar with the budget deficit, its structure, and CBO/OMB projections for its future status and structure, you would realize that health care spending is indeed a significant part of the budget deficit problem of which I spoke.
It's pretty easy to show the Dems have no credibility on deficit reduction. Look at their cries of anguish when GWB tried to eliminate DoEd programs that were shown to be ineffective. Or the recent call by Sen. Kerry for universal health coverage by 2012, with the gov't paying for those who can't afford it. Those who seek to increase mandatory spending or refuse to reduce discretionary spending that is ineffective have no credibility on deficit reduction. Period.
Those of us familiar with recent history realize the reason for Mr. Cheney seeking to cut the military during Bush Sr's term. Minor thing called the Cold War had just come to an end. You might have heard of it. Of course, if you'd like to tell us why we at the time should have kept up the same military stance as we had in the Cold War, I'm sure we'd all love to hear that.
The Republican Congress did pass legislation cutting the military at the request of the President. Both are culpable for cutting a bit too deeply in my opinion, but hindsight is bliss as the saying goes.
Do a bit of research. OMB and CBO have excellent websites and resources for you, as does the Bureau of the Public Debt. Good places to start, at any rate.
If you were familiar with the budget deficit, its structure, and CBO/OMB projections for its future status and structure, you would realize that health care spending is indeed a significant part of the budget deficit problem of which I spoke.
It's pretty easy to show the Dems have no credibility on deficit reduction. Look at their cries of anguish when GWB tried to eliminate DoEd programs that were shown to be ineffective. Or the recent call by Sen. Kerry for universal health coverage by 2012, with the gov't paying for those who can't afford it. Those who seek to increase mandatory spending or refuse to reduce discretionary spending that is ineffective have no credibility on deficit reduction. Period.
Those of us familiar with recent history realize the reason for Mr. Cheney seeking to cut the military during Bush Sr's term. Minor thing called the Cold War had just come to an end. You might have heard of it. Of course, if you'd like to tell us why we at the time should have kept up the same military stance as we had in the Cold War, I'm sure we'd all love to hear that.
The Republican Congress did pass legislation cutting the military at the request of the President. Both are culpable for cutting a bit too deeply in my opinion, but hindsight is bliss as the saying goes.
Do a bit of research. OMB and CBO have excellent websites and resources for you, as does the Bureau of the Public Debt. Good places to start, at any rate.
Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!
QuoteQuoteQuote
The current crises facing America, IMHO, are the budget deficit and our education system.
If I remember correctly, the Dems had us a surplus until repubs came and shit it away.
(I'm libertarian for the most part)
And you are not a libertarian, I have met you a few times in Z-Hills
. Do you remember me? I am Shrek's wife. Please don't use my name in a liberal context thank you
We caught a lurker!
-----------------
I love and Miss you so much Honey!
Orfun #3 ~ Darla
I love and Miss you so much Honey!
Orfun #3 ~ Darla
It was a general statement, not absolute, but as a majority I don't know if that is possible. As much as people hate the Repub Congress and White house, they are still too affraid to vote Dem due to all the rhetoric.
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