New electoral system or keep what we have?

[Lefty 0]

Would anyone care to see our electoral system changed to a proportional representation system in the legislature? Personally, I'm sick of this two-party crap which is almost guaranteed when you have a first-past-the-post majority system for electing the legislature. I know in PR efficiency is sacrificed for representation. However, considering all the crap that's been shooting through congress lately which is taking the country in what I consider the wrong direction, I'd be happy to have the works muddied up a bit. Hell, maybe we could even get some real libertarians elected and really mess them up. Thoughts?

Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful.
-Calvin

[pop 0]

I would like to see the electoral college done away with. It's too outdated to work in today's environemnt. I think people should vote directly for political officals, such as president, rather than for representatives.

Doing away with the electoral college will create a true form of democracy

7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer

[SpeedRacer 1]

we should all live in a Speedracer-ship.


actually there was already a thread about getting rid of the electoral college a while back. you should read it for the pros & cons.

Speed Racer
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[Lefty 0]

Well, I'm really not concerned with the electoral college, just the system. SMDP (single-member district plurality) or PR (proportional representation)...that's the question.

Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful.
-Calvin

[rushmc 23]

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I would like to see the electoral college done away with. It's too outdated to work in today's environemnt. I think people should vote directly for political officals, such as president, rather than for representatives.

Doing away with the electoral college will create a true form of democracy

The US is not a democracy. The founders did not want that. We are a representative republic. The founders were extreemly forward looking and the system they put in place is perfectly suited to today and thier intentions of what the system would become

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Lefty 0]

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Doing away with the electoral college will create a true form of democracy

True democracies scare me. Actually, they should scare everyone.

Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful.
-Calvin

[Lucky... 0]

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Doing away with the electoral college will create a true form of democracy

True democracies scare me. Actually, they should scare everyone.

REALLY? WOW, I would love to live in a true democracy. Voting in liars to decide for you is nuts. The issue with true democracies is that it can be arduous to collect votes all the time, so some sence of representation needs to be utilized at least for the shortrun.

[Gawain 0]

The problem with your proportional representation idea is that it would likely create a massive swelling in the size of Congress. Proportional representation also means creating districts to account for population growth (in theory, that should be happening now). Congress would grow to 2000 members, that's not an improvement in my view.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Lefty 0]

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REALLY? WOW, I would love to live in a true democracy. Voting in liars to decide for you is nuts. The issue with true democracies is that it can be arduous to collect votes all the time, so some sence of representation needs to be utilized at least for the shortrun.

A lynch mob is a true democracy. Does it still sound so good?

Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful.
-Calvin

[Lefty 0]

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Congress would grow to 2000 members, that's not an improvement in my view.

Touche.

Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful.
-Calvin

[GTAVercetti 0]

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The US is not a democracy. The founders did not want that. We are a representative republic. The founders were extreemly forward looking and the system they put in place is perfectly suited to today and thier intentions of what the system would become

A system of two parties, one entirely ineffectual that has no direction and the other overbearing, arrogant and definitely NOT small government, where what mostly gets acomplished is sniping, political maneuvering, and making sure you only vote with your party?

That is what they wanted? Well, bravo, cause that is what we got.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[rushmc 23]

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The US is not a democracy. The founders did not want that. We are a representative republic. The founders were extreemly forward looking and the system they put in place is perfectly suited to today and thier intentions of what the system would become

A system of two parties, one entirely ineffectual that has no direction and the other overbearing, arrogant and definitely NOT small government, where what mostly gets acomplished is sniping, political maneuvering, and making sure you only vote with your party?

That is what they wanted? Well, bravo, cause that is what we got.

I did not think this tread was about the two party system. Are you hijacking the thread?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[GTAVercetti 0]

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I did not think this tread was about the two party system. Are you hijacking the thread?

Not at all. You said that the system in use today is perfectly suited. The two parties are part of that system.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[SpeedRacer 1]

I'm not sure it's the electoral system that is wrong, or how it is being used.

There are other democracies similar to our own where they have more than just two parties dominating everything.

Speed Racer
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[Andy9o8 2]

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A lynch mob is a true democracy. Does it still sound so good?

Hey, that's a pretty good line. I'm going to plagiarize it some time.

Anyhow, I suggest everyone Google the term "tyranny of the majority" and read the warnings written about it by the likes of John Stuart Mill, James Madison and Alexis deTocqueville.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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A lynch mob is a true democracy.

uhmm, no it isn't.

It does make a snazy little soundbite, just not correct.....

[rushmc 23]

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I did not think this tread was about the two party system. Are you hijacking the thread?

Not at all. You said that the system in use today is perfectly suited. The two parties are part of that system.

Ok, I see your point. And some of your issues are valid. I do not think that eliminating the Electoral college with eliminate the issues you spoke of. I think it would make it worse.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[mnealtx 0]

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A lynch mob is a true democracy.

uhmm, no it isn't.

It does make a snazy little soundbite, just not correct.....

How is it not? Would it not demonstrate "the will of the majority"?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[billvon 3,058]

>Would it not demonstrate "the will of the majority"?

It demonstrates the will of the mob. Mob != majority.

[mnealtx 0]

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>Would it not demonstrate "the will of the majority"?

It demonstrates the will of the mob. Mob != majority.

Would be the majority of that group, wouldn't it?

*yes, I know it's splitting hairs, but so is half the argument on this thread*

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[GTAVercetti 0]

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>Would it not demonstrate "the will of the majority"?

It demonstrates the will of the mob. Mob != majority.

Would be the majority of that group, wouldn't it?

*yes, I know it's splitting hairs, but so is half the argument on this thread*

I think the dynamics of a mob are slightly different than an democratic vote. there is a reason why we have the phrase "mob mentality."

In a mob, there might very well be a few very strong willed individuals who coerce and threaten the rest to go along. Of course, then same thing happens in a democractic vote to an extent, but I think the process is MUCH more amplified when you are talking about something as explosive as a mob.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[billvon 3,058]

>Would be the majority of that group, wouldn't it?

No. Mobs are different. A mob that crushes ten people to death against a locked door does not vote to do that; the people involved didn't even want to do that. But the _mob_'s behavior can cause that outcome.

Mob behavior is not rational.

[kallend 2,103]

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>Would it not demonstrate "the will of the majority"?

It demonstrates the will of the mob. Mob != majority.

Would be the majority of that group, wouldn't it?

*yes, I know it's splitting hairs, but so is half the argument on this thread*

I think the dynamics of a mob are slightly different than an democratic vote. there is a reason why we have the phrase "mob mentality."

In a mob, there might very well be a few very strong willed individuals who coerce and threaten the rest to go along. Of course, then same thing happens in a democractic vote to an extent, but I think the process is MUCH more amplified when you are talking about something as explosive as a mob.

If I recall correctly, the founding fathers feared the lower classes to the extent that they set up the Electoral College specifically to limit the "mob" influence over presidential elections. The College would have "approved" members only.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[freeryde13 0]

A lynch mob is a true democracy. Does it still sound so good?


sounds good to me .bring the lynch mob on and there will be a mob coming for them eventually and the cycle goes on and on .so do you think people need a strong leader ? a ruler type person ? true democracy is like anarchism . who ever has the most guns takes the booty is what really governs the world up to this point . eventually , and I hope we're close to this now ,people realize that it didn't work for the mongols , romans ,germans ,etc...... and we just live ..... too simple right ?

the fire goes out when there's nothing left to burn .

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people see me as a challenge to their balance