immigration for dummies

[D22369 0]

Recently large demonstrations have taken place across the country
protesting the fact that Congress is finally addressing the issue of illegal
immigration. Certain people are angry that the U.S. might protect its
own borders, might make it harder to sneak into this country and, once
here, to stay indefinitely. Let me see if I correctly understand the thinking
behind these protests.

Let's say I break into your house. Let's say that when you discover me
in your house, you insist that I leave. But I say, "I've made all the beds
and washed the dishes and did the laundry and swept the floors. I've done
all the things you don't like to do. I'm hard working and honest (except
for when I broke into your house).

"According to the protesters, not only must you let me stay, you must
add me to your family's insurance plan and provide other benefits to me and to
my family (my husband will do your yard work because he too is hard
working and honest, except for that breaking in part).

If you try to call the police or force me out, I will call my friends
who will picket your house carrying signs that proclaim my right to be
there. "It's only fair, after all, because you have a nicer house than I do,
and I'm just trying to better myself. I'm hard working and honest . um,
except for ... well, you know.

"And what a deal it is for me!! I live in your house, contributing
only a fraction of the cost of my keep, and there is nothing you can do about
it without being accused of selfishness, prejudice and being a racist.


"Oh yeah, you need to learn my language so you can communicate
with me."

Why can't people see how ridiculous this is?! Only in America ..


Roy

They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.

[skydyvr 0]

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Why can't people see how ridiculous this is?! Only in America .

Just another land dispute, only the Mexicans are using more peaceful (and therefore smarter) means than those on other continents.

. . =(_8^(1)

[nathaniel 0]

The analogy between private property and citizenship is without merit. Citizenship is not something you can rent or transfer to someone, or that you as an individual have a right to deny of others.

Citizenship is connoted by the state, for such reasons as the state decides. There's a lot of facts that suggest allowing more immigrants is overwhelmingly good for the country...not to mention a tradition spanning more than half of our nation's history that in large part brought it to where it is today.

My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski?

[Gravitymaster 0]

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There's a lot of facts that suggest allowing more immigrants is overwhelmingly good for the country.

Then perhaps you could provide us with them.

[kallend 2,070]

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There's a lot of facts that suggest allowing more immigrants is overwhelmingly good for the country.

Then perhaps you could provide us with them.

Are you a full blood Native American (as opposed to a native American)?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rickjump1 0]

Over-loaded landfills, gang warfare, shortages of fuel, clean air, and water; yep, we need two open borders with unrestricted ILLEGAL immigration. It makes us more rich and vibrant.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[nathaniel 0]

http://books.nap.edu/books/0309059984/html/381.html

This book has a fairly detailed economic analysis. Unfortunately all of nap.edu seems to be offline at the moment...I've linked to it before when we talk about immigration but apparently you've not yet read it. Thought I had a copy of the full PDF locally, but I can't find it...

Basically the main groups harmed economically by immigration are
1- the states in which immigrants immediately arrive
2- workers who cannot or do not wish to compete in an expanded free market

The first case is easy to solve with federal subsidy, should our leadership ever get its wits. The national economic benefit vastly exceeds the drain on the initial immigration states.

The second case is people who would drain our economy for their own personal benefit, hiding behind immigration as a trade barriers to artificially hold up their wages. Not much more than welfare leeches, in economic terms. Drawing from economic inefficiency rather than from the tax rolls... They deserve no sympathy or subsidy from the state.

My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski?

[Gravitymaster 0]

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There's a lot of facts that suggest allowing more immigrants is overwhelmingly good for the country.

Then perhaps you could provide us with them.

Are you a full blood Native American (as opposed to a native American)?

Are you even an American?

[kallend 2,070]

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There's a lot of facts that suggest allowing more immigrants is overwhelmingly good for the country.

Then perhaps you could provide us with them.

Are you a full blood Native American (as opposed to a native American)?

Are you even an American?

Trying to avoid the question. If you are NOT a full blooded Native American you have benefitted from immigration.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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There's a lot of facts that suggest allowing more immigrants is overwhelmingly good for the country.

Then perhaps you could provide us with them.

Are you a full blood Native American (as opposed to a native American)?

Are you even an American?

Trying to avoid the question. If you are NOT a full blooded Native American you have benefitted from immigration.

Your question is almost too laughable to respond to.

At some point immigration is not beneficial. It's my belief we have reached that level.

[Dolph 0]

I agree. Wealthy Saudis have benefitted enormously from immigration of second hand poor foreigners, for instance

[D22369 0]

The analogy between private property and citizenship is without merit. Citizenship is not something you can rent or transfer to someone, or that you as an individual have a right to deny of others.

***

what part of illegal do you people not understand?,

the analogy between private property and country is sound whether you think it is or not. I am not trying to withhold citizenship from anyone who arrives in this country LEGALLY.

the ILLEGAL immigration is a problem, has been a problem, and will probably continue to be one because of the tireless efforts people like you who think..."no big deal"...

Roy

They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.

[billvon 3,031]

>At some point immigration is not beneficial. It's my belief we have
>reached that level.

My great-grandparents were told that too, back around the turn of the (last) century. "Irish need not apply." All the stinking Micks were destroying the country. Heck, they were all lazy alcoholics who wanted to do nothing but sit in bars all day and drink! They expected a free ride. How is that helping america? (Sound familiar yet?)

Everyone wants to be the last one in, then suddenly it's time to close the door behind them. But if we had done that in the 1930's, when the anti-immigration forces were trying to keep my grandparents out, then Einstein would have been working for another country during the race for nuclear weapons.

The US has always been a country of immigrants. In a way it's a selection process - the people who are willing to drop everything and come to the US are the ones who AREN'T content to sit around and do nothing. I think we should simultaneously make it a lot easier for people to come in legally and a lot harder for them to make it in illegally. Legal immigration made this country what it is, and it is what will shape our future as well.

[nathaniel 0]

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what part of illegal do you people not understand?

What part of GDP do you not understand?

Immigrants drive up the GDP, massively. Any patriot should know that GDP wins wars, and besides that makes life better for (nearly) everybody.

My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski?

[skydyvr 0]

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I think we should simultaneously make it a lot easier for people to come in legally and a lot harder for them to make it in illegally.

That's it in a nutshell.

. . =(_8^(1)

[misaltas 0]

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If you are NOT a full blooded Native American you have benefitted from immigration.

Let's see. Anyone who's for illegal immigration is for:

a. Artificially below-market wages for a hard working and hence ripped-off illegal underclass.
b. Evaporation of higher-paying fair wages for the hard-working and increasingly unemployed legal americans.
c. Business owners who stuff more profits into their pockets off the backs of those in 'a' and 'b'.

America is what it is today based on a history and tradition of legal immigration. America's strength is currently being drained by uncontrolled illegal immigration.

Beware of debating anyone who doesn't know or acknowledge the difference.

Once the dems take back the Congress, if their money is where their mouth is, they'll recognize the need to up the quotas and labor categories for work visas and hence make more legal immigrants. But they won't. Because their motives on this issue are are warped as the republicans.

Those who work hard, pay taxes, and obey the law should earn a visa and enrich the melting pot of a multicultural America where everyone is equal. But those who wave the Mexican flag at rallies and yell about how the 'border crossed them' can go back and stay there if it's that much better. Sin fronteras, my ass.

Ohne Liebe sind wir nichts

[nathaniel 0]

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Over-loaded landfills

There is no shortage of landfill space, rather there's an overabundance.

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gang warfare

Can you provide anything besides xenophobic tripe to support this? Do immigrants and their offspring not also join the police?

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shortages of fuel

Immigrants till the fields that will provide us with alternate energy sources. Moving them from one place to another won't necessarily make them consume more or less fuel... or consume it more or less efficiently. It's not a question of growing them from scratch...

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clean air, and water

Immigrants are as clean as you and me. I bet you don't smell very good either.

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it makes us more rich

This much is true. In dollars, denominated with upwards of nine zeros.

My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski?

[D22369 0]

What part of GDP do you not understand?

***

is that truly the best you have?

ok, here is an exercise for you, go to websters online dictionary and pull up the definition of "illegal"...

you may gain some small understanding on why some of us are fuckin tired of the illegal immigration that is taking place.

why do we cater to the mexicans? why should we learn their language? why not the irish? the germans? hey...if the mexicans get special privliges then everyone has to have them right?...



*Any patriot should know that GDP wins wars***

I served my time in the marine corps, how bout you cupcake?

Roy

They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.

[Gravitymaster 0]

True, but using Kallend definition, we are all illegal immigrants. Are you now going to make the case that illegal immigration is good for the country?

[billvon 3,031]

>but using Kallend definition, we are all illegal immigrants. Are you now
>going to make the case that illegal immigration is good for the country?

If it's true that we are all illegal immigrants, then yes - illegal immigration is not only good for us, it's made us what we are. It's why you can sit there behind a computer and amuse yourself posting here. It's why we were able to go to the moon, and why we can fly anywhere in the world in under a day.

But that's a silly definition of "illegal."

[warpedskydiver 0]

Can I be deported to somewhere really nice please?

[D22369 0]

Can I be deported to somewhere really nice please?***

no matter what the faults of this country.... its still the best place to live.

Roy

They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.

[Gravitymaster 0]

I also think the difference for me is that when my Grandfather came here, he did so because he had a passion to be an American. He loved this country and wanted nothing better than to work hard and be sucessful. I don't get the same attitude from many of today's immigrants. Particularly those from S. America and Canada.

[nathaniel 0]

Imagine, if you can, that instead of China's or India's GDP that was growing by 6-10% over the last 10 years, it was ours. Then extend that back all the way to the 1920s when we foolishly clamped down on immigration.

Imagine we had 200%, or 2000% more people in our armed forces to send on errands in north korea or iraq or iran.

You don't actually understand what GDP is, do you.

My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski?

[misaltas 0]

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This much is true. In dollars, denominated with upwards of nine zeros.

Nope. See, if economic research could show that illegal immigrants put more into America's economy than they collectively pull out, those on the 'anti-illegal' side of the debate would have been checkmated long ago. The fact that no one can come up with a study that stands up to even moderate scrutiny probably means the opposite is true. I mean, how hard could it be to prove? It's just numbers, right?

If these 12 million illegals were really needed, Congress could solve this problem right now by granting them visas they could go back to their countries and apply for. But for some reason politicians on both sides of the aisle won't do that. Don't you ever wonder why that's so? Could it be the businesses who's pockets they're all in want to keep illegals an invisible underclass?


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Ohne Liebe sind wir nichts