rickjump1 0 #51 August 11, 2006 QuoteQuote Over-loaded landfills There is no shortage of landfill space, rather there's an overabundance. QuoteSure, but who wants to wake up to the smell of garbage in the morning and have their well polluted. It's called "quality of life". Quote gang warfare Can you provide anything besides xenophobic tripe to support this? Do immigrants and their offspring not also join the police? U.S. shuts consulate in chaotic Mexican border city Reuters ^ | 7-30-05 Posted on 07/30/2005 10:45:01 PM PDT by kingattax NUEVO LAREDO, Mexico (Reuters) - The United States is closing temporarily its consulate in this lawless Mexican border city after rival drug gangs clashed with bazookas, hand grenades and heavy machine-gun fire. "A violent battle involving unusually advanced weaponry took place between armed criminal factions last night in Nuevo Laredo," U.S. Ambassador to Mexico Tony Garza said on Friday. He said he was ordering the consulate in Nuevo Laredo closed for all of next week and would only reopen it if the security situation improved. Garza called on Mexico to swiftly bring the situation under control. Mexico reacted angrily to Garza's words, saying both countries shared a responsibility to fight drug crime. "Repeated public statements by the U.S. Embassy in Mexico about the border situation in no way help bilateral efforts to end border crime," the Mexican Foreign Ministry said in a statement. The latest battle erupted late on Thursday when about 30 masked gunmen opened fire on a suspected drug-cartel safe house in Nuevo Laredo, across the Rio Grande from Laredo, Texas, blasting off its doors and strafing the facade with bullets. ............. LEGAL IMMIGRANTS do get into law enforcement Quote shortages of fuel Immigrants till the fields that will provide us with alternate energy sources. Moving them from one place to another won't necessarily make them consume more or less fuel... or consume it more or less efficiently. It's not a question of growing them from scratch... Illegal immigrants take more than they give, and the taxpayers pay for this free ride. Wait for the economy to turn south. It gets worse. Quote clean air, and water Immigrants are as clean as you and me. I bet you don't smell very good either. Quote Of course, I'm referring to the water we drink and the air we breathe. Try out the air and water in Mexico City if you have doubts. It's still about quality of life. Quote it makes us more rich This much is true. In dollars, denominated with upwards of nine zeros. Please get out of the classroom and come visit the United States. You are welcome here, legally.Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #52 August 11, 2006 QuoteI see them using 'food stamps', every week, when I'm at the grocery store. If they've got food stamps, they're probably here legally. "A person must be a U.S. citizen or an eligible non-citizen to qualify for food stamps WHO CAN GET FOOD STAMPS? U.S. citizens and certain legal immigrants who have little or no income and very few assets are likely to be eligible for food stamps. This includes, but is not limited to, people who are: * Unemployed * Retired with no or low pension or Social Security income * Working, but earning low wages * On state cash assistance (TFA, SAGA, or State Supplement) * Homeless * Legal immigrants who are disabled and receiving disability benefits (SSI, or disability-related Medicaid) are eligible for federal food stamps without a waiting period. Sponsor deeming and sponsor liability apply to disabled immigrants who entered the U.S. after December 19, 1997 and have enforceable affidavits of support. * Students in post-secondary schools (college) can receive food stamps if: 1. Age under 18 or 60+ 2. Physically or mentally disabled 3. Receiving TFA 4. Responsible for more that 50% of the care of a dependent family member if under age 6 or age 6-12 if adequate care is not available 5. Enrolled less than half time 6. Enrolled half time or more and employed a minimum of 20 hrs/wk 7. Placed in higher education by the Workforce Investment Act (former JTPA) program. WORK REQUIREMENTS FOR FOOD STAMPS (Effective July 1, 2006) Federal law limits Able-Bodied Adults Without Dependents (ABAWDs) to 3 months of Food Stamps in 3 years, unless they are working, doing community service, or in an approved employment/training program for at least 80 hours a month. WHO CAN NOT GET FOOD STAMPS? The following CANNOT get food stamps, regardless of how low their income is: * Most strikers. * Most college and university students between the ages of 18-59, unless they meet one of the exceptions listed above * Illegal immigrants WHAT DOCUMENTS ARE NEEDED? * Identification * Proof of citizenship or refugee status. * Legal immigrants with permanent residence status ("green card") should call to ask what documentation is required. * Proof of earned and unearned income * Documentation of countable assets (bank account statements, title of car, car loan information, stocks, bonds, CDs, etc. * Social Security numbers for everyone in the household. * Verification of your shelter expenses, such as rent receipt or lease and utility bills." Source: Conn. State Dept. of Social Services and the U.S. Dept. of Agriculture Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #53 August 11, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuote Over-loaded landfills There is no shortage of landfill space, rather there's an overabundance. QuoteSure, but who wants to wake up to the smell of garbage in the morning and have their well polluted. It's called "quality of life". He's right. There is no shortage of landfill space at all. "All of the garbage America produces in the next 1,000 years would fit in an area 44 miles on each side and about 120 feet deep. About 73 percent of all municipal solid waste in the United States ends up in landfills. And despite many potential landfill spaces, the number of landfills actually receiving trash is shrinking. Over the past 10 years, more than half of the 18,500 municipal solid waste landfills that existed in 1979 have closed. Further, once lined and covered, a landfill is not permanently unusable. Parks, golf courses and buildings cover the surface of some covered landfills. Properly sited and operated, landfills pose little threat either to human health or to the environment...A landfill containing the next 1,000 years' worth of U.S. garbage would occupy less than one-tenth of one percent of our land." Source: A. Clark Wiseman, U.S. Wastepaper Recycling Policies: Issues and Effects; Lynn Scarlett, A Consumer's Guide to Environmental Myths and Realities Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites masterrig 1 #54 August 11, 2006 In regard to the Nuevo Laredo 'incident', it doesn't have a whole bunch to do with illegal immigration but rather, control by 'fueding' drug-runners to gain control of the last stop before bringing dope into this country. In recent months, a police chief was appointed and was dead, the next day. The newspaper office was shot up as well as a radio station. Laredo, on this side of the border, is about 96% folks of Mexican descent. Generations of Mexicans have lived in Laredo since before Texas Independence. Therefore, your chances of having Mexican police officers in Laredo are really good. Mexico, wants us to do something about Nuevo Laredo because of 'the unquenchable thirst for drugs by the Americans' as stated by Vicente Fox, President of Mexico. Recently, in the Presidio Texas area, U.S. Border Patrol agents were shot at from the Mexican side of the border (gunfire was not returned). River rafters on the Rio Grande, on vacation, have been shot at from the Mexican side of the border. Cattle are rustled from this side and taken back across the border. We have a lot going-on, along our border besides illegal aliens. Mexico blames us for it. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites masterrig 1 #55 August 11, 2006 Have you ever seen some of the 'paperwork' available? For the right price, one can obtain a birth certificate, Social Security card, Driver's license, whatever. That paperwork isn't looked at very closely, either. 'Proving' citizenship isn't difficult, at all. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Nightingale 0 #56 August 11, 2006 Quote Illegal immigrants take more than they give, and the taxpayers pay for this free ride. Wait for the economy to turn south. It gets worse. Do you have any sources to back this up? Last I checked, we've been hearing the same thing since before the Irish showed up here in en masse in the early 1800s. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites masterrig 1 #57 August 11, 2006 QuoteQuote Illegal immigrants take more than they give, and the taxpayers pay for this free ride. Wait for the economy to turn south. It gets worse. Do you have any sources to back this up? Last I checked, we've been hearing the same thing since before the Irish showed up here in en masse in the early 1800s. ____________________________________ I think that is 'rabble-rouser' talk, about illegal aliens 'taking more than they give'. It's a generalization. I've seen a little bit of everything, come across the border. I've seen some damned hard working folks and I've seen the 'dregs'. I just think, we do need to be much more selective in regards to who comes into this country. I feel also, that if, a person cannot enter this country legally... they should stay the hell out. To me, an illegal alien, is 'stealing' citizenship. They are taking something that someone else had to go through the process and wait years for. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Nightingale 0 #58 August 11, 2006 QuoteHave you ever seen some of the 'paperwork' available? For the right price, one can obtain a birth certificate, Social Security card, Driver's license, whatever. That paperwork isn't looked at very closely, either. 'Provong' citizenship isn't difficult, at all. Chuck "At the heart of this issue is differentiating between immigrants who are in the country legally and those who aren't. Only immigrants with lawful permanent resident, refugee or asylums status are authorized to receive public benefits. However, the public misconception often is that illegal immigrants also have access to the benefits, a notion propagated by some politicians said [Jonathan] Blazer [a policy attorney with teh National Immigration Law Center]. "This framing continues a campaign that has included Agriculture Committee Chairman Bob Goodlatte (R-Va.) and Rep. Todd Akin (R-Mo.) giving the impression that food stamp cuts have something to do with illegal immigration or illegal immigrants fraudulently obtaining food stamps, a claim that is erroneous," Blazer said, adding that the cuts hurt those immigrants who "pay taxes, have children in the military and contribute positively to society." "The response from our office is illegal immigration has never been a topic that has been broached at all," said Alise Kowalski, spokesperson for the Agriculture Committee. Goodlatte-an attorney with immigration law background-"would never confuse the legal with illegal non-citizens," she said. An earlier version of the House Republican Conference's summary of the deficit reduction bill, however, listed "restricting illegal immigrant access to food stamps and Medicaid" as a key provision. It has since been corrected, but it is an example of the confusion surrounding the issue. Blazer said that politicians "make a name for themselves for being tough on immigrants. But it has nothing to do with that." -BU.edu "Nationally, only 66 percent of people who are income-eligible for food stamps receive them4. In New York City, roughly 700,000 people are eligible to receive food stamps but don’t, costing NYC businesses roughly $1 billion in lost sales. Studies conclude that the main reason eligible people don’t participate is the complex bureaucracy involved in applying, which is frustrating and humiliating...Illegal immigrants are not eligible to receive food stamps, and never have been; there are stringent processes to determine citizenship in the program. Legal immigrants are also not allowed to receive food stamps until they have been in the country for five years (with the exception of asylum cases and some other situations). Immigrants generally are far less likely than other groups to apply for food stamps, both because they fear jeopardizing their immigration status, and because the complex application process is doubly hard for those who do not speak English well." sources: Across the U.S. Economy.” Economic Research Service (USDA). http://www.ers.usda.gov/publications/fanrr26/fanrr26-6/ 2004. “2004 Food Stamp Program Access Index (PAI) State-by-State.” Food Reseach and Action Center. http://www.frac.org/html/federal_food_programs/FSP/Participation_Rates_04.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Nightingale 0 #59 August 11, 2006 QuoteI just think, we do need to be much more selective in regards to who comes into this country. I feel also, that if, a person cannot enter this country legally... they should stay the hell out. To me, an illegal alien, is 'stealing' citizenship. They are taking something that someone else had to go through the process and wait years for. Chuck If there was actually a way for those people to immigrate legally, I would agree with you. However, if you check the INS website, you'll see that the US isn't, and hasn't for about the last fifteen years, accepting immigration applications from anyone from Mexico who doesn't have a family member here or something similar to a PhD or special talent of some kind. I wouldn't have a problem with employers going to Mexico, interviewing people there, and then sponsoring them for permission to come here, as long as they remain employed. Then, they could remain here as long as they are employed, and would be subject to deportation if they become unemployed or until they go through the process to become a citizen. Those processes should be made available to anyone who is able to immigrate legally. As long as there are jobs here, there will be illegal immigration unless we make it possible for those people to come here and work legally. We can drastically reduce the need for illegal labor by eliminating the minimum wage and charging heavy fines for hiring illegal immigrants, but we also need to give employers access to immigrants when they don't have enough applicants who want to do the job here. Example: If a farmer needs 25 strawberry pickers, he hires the guys who apply here, and pays them what they negotiate together. Then, if he got fewer people than he needed, he can go to mexico and sponsor some immigrants to come up here and work for him, and their green card would be valid as long as they are employed, and when they become citizens, they can bring their immediate family here to join them. Put the green card system on something like the DMV driver's license system to help keep track. If people can easily immigrate to the US and work here legally, there's no reason to do so illegally. Reduce/eliminate the demand for illegal labor, and you reduce/eliminate the incentives to immigrate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rickjump1 0 #60 August 11, 2006 QuoteIn regard to the Nuevo Laredo 'incident', it doesn't have a whole bunch to do with illegal immigration but rather, control by 'fueding' drug-runners to gain control of the last stop before bringing dope into this country. In recent months, a police chief was appointed and was dead, the next day. The newspaper office was shot up as well as a radio station. Laredo, on this side of the border, is about 96% folks of Mexican descent. Generations of Mexicans have lived in Laredo since before Texas Independence. Therefore, your chances of having Mexican police officers in Laredo are really good. Mexico, wants us to do something about Nuevo Laredo because of 'the unquenchable thirst for drugs by the Americans' as stated by Vicente Fox, President of Mexico. Recently, in the Presidio Texas area, U.S. Border Patrol agents were shot at from the Mexican side of the border (gunfire was not returned). River rafters on the Rio Grande, on vacation, have been shot at from the Mexican side of the border. Cattle are rustled from this side and taken back across the border. We have a lot going-on, along our border besides illegal aliens. Mexico blames us for it. Chuck Ok Chuck, it's a poor example for gangs on this side. A description of LA gangs would have been more appropriate. Maybe we should shoot back.Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites masterrig 1 #61 August 11, 2006 QuoteQuoteHave you ever seen some of the 'paperwork' available? For the right price, one can obtain a birth certificate, Social Security card, Driver's license, whatever. That paperwork isn't looked at very closely, either. 'Provong' citizenship isn't difficult, at all. Chuck "At the heart of this issue is differentiating between immigrants who are in the country legally and those who aren't. Only immigrants with lawful permanent resident, refugee or asylums status are authorized to receive public benefits. However, the public misconception often is that illegal immigrants also have access to the benefits, a notion propagated by some politicians said [Jonathan] Blazer [a policy attorney with teh National Immigration Law Center]. "This framing continues a campaign that has included Agriculture Committee Chairman Bob Goodlatte (R-Va.) and Rep. Todd Akin (R-Mo.) giving the impression that food stamp cuts have something to do with illegal immigration or illegal immigrants fraudulently obtaining food stamps, a claim that is erroneous," Blazer said, adding that the cuts hurt those immigrants who "pay taxes, have children in the military and contribute positively to society." "The response from our office is illegal immigration has never been a topic that has been broached at all," said Alise Kowalski, spokesperson for the Agriculture Committee. Goodlatte-an attorney with immigration law background-"would never confuse the legal with illegal non-citizens," she said. An earlier version of the House Republican Conference's summary of the deficit reduction bill, however, listed "restricting illegal immigrant access to food stamps and Medicaid" as a key provision. It has since been corrected, but it is an example of the confusion surrounding the issue. Blazer said that politicians "make a name for themselves for being tough on immigrants. But it has nothing to do with that." -BU.edu "Nationally, only 66 percent of people who are income-eligible for food stamps receive them4. In New York City, roughly 700,000 people are eligible to receive food stamps but don’t, costing NYC businesses roughly $1 billion in lost sales. Studies conclude that the main reason eligible people don’t participate is the complex bureaucracy involved in applying, which is frustrating and humiliating...Illegal immigrants are not eligible to receive food stamps, and never have been; there are stringent processes to determine citizenship in the program. Legal immigrants are also not allowed to receive food stamps until they have been in the country for five years (with the exception of asylum cases and some other situations). Immigrants generally are far less likely than other groups to apply for food stamps, both because they fear jeopardizing their immigration status, and because the complex application process is doubly hard for those who do not speak English well." sources: Across the U.S. Economy.” Economic Research Service (USDA). http://www.ers.usda.gov/publications/fanrr26/fanrr26-6/ 2004. “2004 Food Stamp Program Access Index (PAI) State-by-State.” Food Reseach and Action Center. http://www.frac.org/html/federal_food_programs/FSP/Participation_Rates_04.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites masterrig 1 #62 August 11, 2006 That's political rhetoric. Those folks writing that stuff can come here and live among 'em, like I do. They'd see, first-hand what the situation really is. I have actually seen, with my own eyes, false documentation that is very difficult to spot, except by the trained eye. Illegals buy it and use it to 'get what they want' and the out-come is, because of false documentation not being 'caught' by public officials, the statistics show that illegals are not getting food stamps and etc. That is one reason that documentation is being changed by our government. To get around the problem of false documents. Recently, in Kentucky, illegals were flocking to get Kentucky driver's licences because of 'wording' in the regulations pertaining to driver licenses there. The wording has since been changed. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites masterrig 1 #63 August 11, 2006 QuoteQuoteI just think, we do need to be much more selective in regards to who comes into this country. I feel also, that if, a person cannot enter this country legally... they should stay the hell out. To me, an illegal alien, is 'stealing' citizenship. They are taking something that someone else had to go through the process and wait years for. Chuck If there was actually a way for those people to immigrate legally, I would agree with you. However, if you check the INS website, you'll see that the US isn't, and hasn't for about the last fifteen years, accepting immigration applications from anyone from Mexico who doesn't have a family member here or something similar to a PhD or special talent of some kind. I wouldn't have a problem with employers going to Mexico, interviewing people there, and then sponsoring them for permission to come here, as long as they remain employed. Then, they could remain here as long as they are employed, and would be subject to deportation if they become unemployed or until they go through the process to become a citizen. Those processes should be made available to anyone who is able to immigrate legally. As long as there are jobs here, there will be illegal immigration unless we make it possible for those people to come here and work legally. We can drastically reduce the need for illegal labor by eliminating the minimum wage and charging heavy fines for hiring illegal immigrants, but we also need to give employers access to immigrants when they don't have enough applicants who want to do the job here. Example: If a farmer needs 25 strawberry pickers, he hires the guys who apply here, and pays them what they negotiate together. Then, if he got fewer people than he needed, he can go to mexico and sponsor some immigrants to come up here and work for him, and their green card would be valid as long as they are employed, and when they become citizens, they can bring their immediate family here to join them. Put the green card system on something like the DMV driver's license system to help keep track. If people can easily immigrate to the US and work here legally, there's no reason to do so illegally. Reduce/eliminate the demand for illegal labor, and you reduce/eliminate the incentives to immigrate. _______________________________________ that is the criteria set down by the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization folks then, too bad if, they can't meet the standards. There will be jobs for illegals as long as big business hires them at a 'dirt-cheap' price. Fine heavily, those who hire illegals. Are you aware of just who crosses our borders? We get all kinds! Good, bad and indifferent. We have the restrictions and the laws. The government has tied the hands of those meant to enforce Immigration and Naturalization law. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites masterrig 1 #64 August 11, 2006 Chuck Ok Chuck, it's a poor example for gangs on this side. A description of LA gangs would have been more appropriate. Maybe we should shoot back. ___________________________________ Yeah! ...and start an international incident! Though, I believe if, our Border Patrolmen or other law enforcement officer is shot at from across the border, they should be allowed to shoot back. I live in a town of a little over 110,000 people. We have folks from all over the world as well as a large percentage of 'Hispanics'. We also have over 60 recognized street gangs. Mostly Hispanic. We also, have a large rate of meth-amphetimine traffic/use. We've cracked-down on the meth so bad, it's now being produced in Mexico and brought here for sale. By some of the gangs. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #54 August 11, 2006 In regard to the Nuevo Laredo 'incident', it doesn't have a whole bunch to do with illegal immigration but rather, control by 'fueding' drug-runners to gain control of the last stop before bringing dope into this country. In recent months, a police chief was appointed and was dead, the next day. The newspaper office was shot up as well as a radio station. Laredo, on this side of the border, is about 96% folks of Mexican descent. Generations of Mexicans have lived in Laredo since before Texas Independence. Therefore, your chances of having Mexican police officers in Laredo are really good. Mexico, wants us to do something about Nuevo Laredo because of 'the unquenchable thirst for drugs by the Americans' as stated by Vicente Fox, President of Mexico. Recently, in the Presidio Texas area, U.S. Border Patrol agents were shot at from the Mexican side of the border (gunfire was not returned). River rafters on the Rio Grande, on vacation, have been shot at from the Mexican side of the border. Cattle are rustled from this side and taken back across the border. We have a lot going-on, along our border besides illegal aliens. Mexico blames us for it. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #55 August 11, 2006 Have you ever seen some of the 'paperwork' available? For the right price, one can obtain a birth certificate, Social Security card, Driver's license, whatever. That paperwork isn't looked at very closely, either. 'Proving' citizenship isn't difficult, at all. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #56 August 11, 2006 Quote Illegal immigrants take more than they give, and the taxpayers pay for this free ride. Wait for the economy to turn south. It gets worse. Do you have any sources to back this up? Last I checked, we've been hearing the same thing since before the Irish showed up here in en masse in the early 1800s. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #57 August 11, 2006 QuoteQuote Illegal immigrants take more than they give, and the taxpayers pay for this free ride. Wait for the economy to turn south. It gets worse. Do you have any sources to back this up? Last I checked, we've been hearing the same thing since before the Irish showed up here in en masse in the early 1800s. ____________________________________ I think that is 'rabble-rouser' talk, about illegal aliens 'taking more than they give'. It's a generalization. I've seen a little bit of everything, come across the border. I've seen some damned hard working folks and I've seen the 'dregs'. I just think, we do need to be much more selective in regards to who comes into this country. I feel also, that if, a person cannot enter this country legally... they should stay the hell out. To me, an illegal alien, is 'stealing' citizenship. They are taking something that someone else had to go through the process and wait years for. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #58 August 11, 2006 QuoteHave you ever seen some of the 'paperwork' available? For the right price, one can obtain a birth certificate, Social Security card, Driver's license, whatever. That paperwork isn't looked at very closely, either. 'Provong' citizenship isn't difficult, at all. Chuck "At the heart of this issue is differentiating between immigrants who are in the country legally and those who aren't. Only immigrants with lawful permanent resident, refugee or asylums status are authorized to receive public benefits. However, the public misconception often is that illegal immigrants also have access to the benefits, a notion propagated by some politicians said [Jonathan] Blazer [a policy attorney with teh National Immigration Law Center]. "This framing continues a campaign that has included Agriculture Committee Chairman Bob Goodlatte (R-Va.) and Rep. Todd Akin (R-Mo.) giving the impression that food stamp cuts have something to do with illegal immigration or illegal immigrants fraudulently obtaining food stamps, a claim that is erroneous," Blazer said, adding that the cuts hurt those immigrants who "pay taxes, have children in the military and contribute positively to society." "The response from our office is illegal immigration has never been a topic that has been broached at all," said Alise Kowalski, spokesperson for the Agriculture Committee. Goodlatte-an attorney with immigration law background-"would never confuse the legal with illegal non-citizens," she said. An earlier version of the House Republican Conference's summary of the deficit reduction bill, however, listed "restricting illegal immigrant access to food stamps and Medicaid" as a key provision. It has since been corrected, but it is an example of the confusion surrounding the issue. Blazer said that politicians "make a name for themselves for being tough on immigrants. But it has nothing to do with that." -BU.edu "Nationally, only 66 percent of people who are income-eligible for food stamps receive them4. In New York City, roughly 700,000 people are eligible to receive food stamps but don’t, costing NYC businesses roughly $1 billion in lost sales. Studies conclude that the main reason eligible people don’t participate is the complex bureaucracy involved in applying, which is frustrating and humiliating...Illegal immigrants are not eligible to receive food stamps, and never have been; there are stringent processes to determine citizenship in the program. Legal immigrants are also not allowed to receive food stamps until they have been in the country for five years (with the exception of asylum cases and some other situations). Immigrants generally are far less likely than other groups to apply for food stamps, both because they fear jeopardizing their immigration status, and because the complex application process is doubly hard for those who do not speak English well." sources: Across the U.S. Economy.” Economic Research Service (USDA). http://www.ers.usda.gov/publications/fanrr26/fanrr26-6/ 2004. “2004 Food Stamp Program Access Index (PAI) State-by-State.” Food Reseach and Action Center. http://www.frac.org/html/federal_food_programs/FSP/Participation_Rates_04.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #59 August 11, 2006 QuoteI just think, we do need to be much more selective in regards to who comes into this country. I feel also, that if, a person cannot enter this country legally... they should stay the hell out. To me, an illegal alien, is 'stealing' citizenship. They are taking something that someone else had to go through the process and wait years for. Chuck If there was actually a way for those people to immigrate legally, I would agree with you. However, if you check the INS website, you'll see that the US isn't, and hasn't for about the last fifteen years, accepting immigration applications from anyone from Mexico who doesn't have a family member here or something similar to a PhD or special talent of some kind. I wouldn't have a problem with employers going to Mexico, interviewing people there, and then sponsoring them for permission to come here, as long as they remain employed. Then, they could remain here as long as they are employed, and would be subject to deportation if they become unemployed or until they go through the process to become a citizen. Those processes should be made available to anyone who is able to immigrate legally. As long as there are jobs here, there will be illegal immigration unless we make it possible for those people to come here and work legally. We can drastically reduce the need for illegal labor by eliminating the minimum wage and charging heavy fines for hiring illegal immigrants, but we also need to give employers access to immigrants when they don't have enough applicants who want to do the job here. Example: If a farmer needs 25 strawberry pickers, he hires the guys who apply here, and pays them what they negotiate together. Then, if he got fewer people than he needed, he can go to mexico and sponsor some immigrants to come up here and work for him, and their green card would be valid as long as they are employed, and when they become citizens, they can bring their immediate family here to join them. Put the green card system on something like the DMV driver's license system to help keep track. If people can easily immigrate to the US and work here legally, there's no reason to do so illegally. Reduce/eliminate the demand for illegal labor, and you reduce/eliminate the incentives to immigrate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rickjump1 0 #60 August 11, 2006 QuoteIn regard to the Nuevo Laredo 'incident', it doesn't have a whole bunch to do with illegal immigration but rather, control by 'fueding' drug-runners to gain control of the last stop before bringing dope into this country. In recent months, a police chief was appointed and was dead, the next day. The newspaper office was shot up as well as a radio station. Laredo, on this side of the border, is about 96% folks of Mexican descent. Generations of Mexicans have lived in Laredo since before Texas Independence. Therefore, your chances of having Mexican police officers in Laredo are really good. Mexico, wants us to do something about Nuevo Laredo because of 'the unquenchable thirst for drugs by the Americans' as stated by Vicente Fox, President of Mexico. Recently, in the Presidio Texas area, U.S. Border Patrol agents were shot at from the Mexican side of the border (gunfire was not returned). River rafters on the Rio Grande, on vacation, have been shot at from the Mexican side of the border. Cattle are rustled from this side and taken back across the border. We have a lot going-on, along our border besides illegal aliens. Mexico blames us for it. Chuck Ok Chuck, it's a poor example for gangs on this side. A description of LA gangs would have been more appropriate. Maybe we should shoot back.Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #61 August 11, 2006 QuoteQuoteHave you ever seen some of the 'paperwork' available? For the right price, one can obtain a birth certificate, Social Security card, Driver's license, whatever. That paperwork isn't looked at very closely, either. 'Provong' citizenship isn't difficult, at all. Chuck "At the heart of this issue is differentiating between immigrants who are in the country legally and those who aren't. Only immigrants with lawful permanent resident, refugee or asylums status are authorized to receive public benefits. However, the public misconception often is that illegal immigrants also have access to the benefits, a notion propagated by some politicians said [Jonathan] Blazer [a policy attorney with teh National Immigration Law Center]. "This framing continues a campaign that has included Agriculture Committee Chairman Bob Goodlatte (R-Va.) and Rep. Todd Akin (R-Mo.) giving the impression that food stamp cuts have something to do with illegal immigration or illegal immigrants fraudulently obtaining food stamps, a claim that is erroneous," Blazer said, adding that the cuts hurt those immigrants who "pay taxes, have children in the military and contribute positively to society." "The response from our office is illegal immigration has never been a topic that has been broached at all," said Alise Kowalski, spokesperson for the Agriculture Committee. Goodlatte-an attorney with immigration law background-"would never confuse the legal with illegal non-citizens," she said. An earlier version of the House Republican Conference's summary of the deficit reduction bill, however, listed "restricting illegal immigrant access to food stamps and Medicaid" as a key provision. It has since been corrected, but it is an example of the confusion surrounding the issue. Blazer said that politicians "make a name for themselves for being tough on immigrants. But it has nothing to do with that." -BU.edu "Nationally, only 66 percent of people who are income-eligible for food stamps receive them4. In New York City, roughly 700,000 people are eligible to receive food stamps but don’t, costing NYC businesses roughly $1 billion in lost sales. Studies conclude that the main reason eligible people don’t participate is the complex bureaucracy involved in applying, which is frustrating and humiliating...Illegal immigrants are not eligible to receive food stamps, and never have been; there are stringent processes to determine citizenship in the program. Legal immigrants are also not allowed to receive food stamps until they have been in the country for five years (with the exception of asylum cases and some other situations). Immigrants generally are far less likely than other groups to apply for food stamps, both because they fear jeopardizing their immigration status, and because the complex application process is doubly hard for those who do not speak English well." sources: Across the U.S. Economy.” Economic Research Service (USDA). http://www.ers.usda.gov/publications/fanrr26/fanrr26-6/ 2004. “2004 Food Stamp Program Access Index (PAI) State-by-State.” Food Reseach and Action Center. http://www.frac.org/html/federal_food_programs/FSP/Participation_Rates_04.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #62 August 11, 2006 That's political rhetoric. Those folks writing that stuff can come here and live among 'em, like I do. They'd see, first-hand what the situation really is. I have actually seen, with my own eyes, false documentation that is very difficult to spot, except by the trained eye. Illegals buy it and use it to 'get what they want' and the out-come is, because of false documentation not being 'caught' by public officials, the statistics show that illegals are not getting food stamps and etc. That is one reason that documentation is being changed by our government. To get around the problem of false documents. Recently, in Kentucky, illegals were flocking to get Kentucky driver's licences because of 'wording' in the regulations pertaining to driver licenses there. The wording has since been changed. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #63 August 11, 2006 QuoteQuoteI just think, we do need to be much more selective in regards to who comes into this country. I feel also, that if, a person cannot enter this country legally... they should stay the hell out. To me, an illegal alien, is 'stealing' citizenship. They are taking something that someone else had to go through the process and wait years for. Chuck If there was actually a way for those people to immigrate legally, I would agree with you. However, if you check the INS website, you'll see that the US isn't, and hasn't for about the last fifteen years, accepting immigration applications from anyone from Mexico who doesn't have a family member here or something similar to a PhD or special talent of some kind. I wouldn't have a problem with employers going to Mexico, interviewing people there, and then sponsoring them for permission to come here, as long as they remain employed. Then, they could remain here as long as they are employed, and would be subject to deportation if they become unemployed or until they go through the process to become a citizen. Those processes should be made available to anyone who is able to immigrate legally. As long as there are jobs here, there will be illegal immigration unless we make it possible for those people to come here and work legally. We can drastically reduce the need for illegal labor by eliminating the minimum wage and charging heavy fines for hiring illegal immigrants, but we also need to give employers access to immigrants when they don't have enough applicants who want to do the job here. Example: If a farmer needs 25 strawberry pickers, he hires the guys who apply here, and pays them what they negotiate together. Then, if he got fewer people than he needed, he can go to mexico and sponsor some immigrants to come up here and work for him, and their green card would be valid as long as they are employed, and when they become citizens, they can bring their immediate family here to join them. Put the green card system on something like the DMV driver's license system to help keep track. If people can easily immigrate to the US and work here legally, there's no reason to do so illegally. Reduce/eliminate the demand for illegal labor, and you reduce/eliminate the incentives to immigrate. _______________________________________ that is the criteria set down by the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization folks then, too bad if, they can't meet the standards. There will be jobs for illegals as long as big business hires them at a 'dirt-cheap' price. Fine heavily, those who hire illegals. Are you aware of just who crosses our borders? We get all kinds! Good, bad and indifferent. We have the restrictions and the laws. The government has tied the hands of those meant to enforce Immigration and Naturalization law. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #64 August 11, 2006 Chuck Ok Chuck, it's a poor example for gangs on this side. A description of LA gangs would have been more appropriate. Maybe we should shoot back. ___________________________________ Yeah! ...and start an international incident! Though, I believe if, our Border Patrolmen or other law enforcement officer is shot at from across the border, they should be allowed to shoot back. I live in a town of a little over 110,000 people. We have folks from all over the world as well as a large percentage of 'Hispanics'. We also have over 60 recognized street gangs. Mostly Hispanic. We also, have a large rate of meth-amphetimine traffic/use. We've cracked-down on the meth so bad, it's now being produced in Mexico and brought here for sale. By some of the gangs. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rickjump1 0 #65 August 11, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Over-loaded landfills There is no shortage of landfill space, rather there's an overabundance. QuoteSure, but who wants to wake up to the smell of garbage in the morning and have their well polluted. It's called "quality of life". He's right. There is no shortage of landfill space at all. "All of the garbage America produces in the next 1,000 years would fit in an area 44 miles on each side and about 120 feet deep. About 73 percent of all municipal solid waste in the United States ends up in landfills. And despite many potential landfill spaces, the number of landfills actually receiving trash is shrinking. Over the past 10 years, more than half of the 18,500 municipal solid waste landfills that existed in 1979 have closed. Further, once lined and covered, a landfill is not permanently unusable. Parks, golf courses and buildings cover the surface of some covered landfills. Properly sited and operated, landfills pose little threat either to human health or to the environment...A landfill containing the next 1,000 years' worth of U.S. garbage would occupy less than one-tenth of one percent of our land." Source: A. Clark Wiseman, U.S. Wastepaper Recycling Policies: Issues and Effects; Lynn Scarlett, A Consumer's Guide to Environmental Myths and Realitieshttp://www.ejnet.org/landfills/ Landfill Basics- "How They Are Constructed and Why They Fail". "EPA's New Landfill Rules Protect Big Garbage Haulers". This is a pretty good websit. I had an engineer tell me that all liners leak. Of course the proposed landfill company felt different. A lot of these land fills end up in rural areas where there is little money to fight them. The corporations know this.Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,093 #66 August 11, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteHave you ever seen some of the 'paperwork' available? For the right price, one can obtain a birth certificate, Social Security card, Driver's license, whatever. That paperwork isn't looked at very closely, either. 'Provong' citizenship isn't difficult, at all. Chuck " If the government has the technology to listen to every phone call on the planet, how come it can't keep track of those to whom it grants legal status without their having to keep "paperwork"?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites masterrig 1 #67 August 11, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteHave you ever seen some of the 'paperwork' available? For the right price, one can obtain a birth certificate, Social Security card, Driver's license, whatever. That paperwork isn't looked at very closely, either. 'Provong' citizenship isn't difficult, at all. Chuck " If the government has the technology to listen to every phone call on the planet, how come it can't keep track of those to whom it grants legal status without their having to keep "paperwork"? _____________________________ That is a question that could keep politicians busy for a good, long time! I wish I had an answer for you. The paperwork I'm referring to, makes an 'illegal' appear as though they were born here and not naturalized. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CanuckInUSA 0 #68 August 11, 2006 QuoteI have encountered people from both Canada and Mexico who have a disdain for the US. These are first-hand incidents. Well what do you expect? With your "America is the best and fuck the rest of the world" attitude, of course YOU are going to encounter people who don't like people like ... YOU. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #69 August 11, 2006 Hell you dont have to be a furiner to fall into that category Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Nightingale 0 #70 August 11, 2006 Quote that is the criteria set down by the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization folks then, too bad if, they can't meet the standards. There will be jobs for illegals as long as big business hires them at a 'dirt-cheap' price. Fine heavily, those who hire illegals. Chuck Just like drugs, cigarettes, and alcohol... trying to limit supply (stop people from coming in) doesn't work. You must reduce demand. As far as I can see, the only thing that will reduce demand is the elimination of the minimum wage. As long as there is a minimum wage, there will be a demand for under the table labor. Farmers know that people don't want to pay $20 a basket for strawberries. If the farms want to stay in business, they MUST keep their costs down. About the only thing they can shortcut on is labor costs. As long as someone is willing to do the job for cheaper than the minimum wage, there will be a demand for illegal employment. Fining the farmers without removing minimum wage requirements won't work. It won't work because people won't pay $20 a basket for strawberries, and if they don't hire under the table, they go out of business anyway. Either the fines shut them down or the high minimum wage shuts them down. However, if you remove the minimum wage, you remove the incentive to hire people illegally, because you can now hire them legally. There's no reason not to hire people legally, because you can pay them the same amount you were paying the illegal hires. At that point, fining them for hiring illegal workers will actually accomplish something. The immigration criteria standards MUST change if we want to regulate the flow of people entering the US. Making the standards as strict as they are tells people that the ONLY way they can get here is illegally. If that's the only way, they'll take it. However, if we make it easier to immigrate (let in anyone with a job and a sponsor, for example) remove the minimum wage, and fine people who hire illegal workers (you have to have all three components for this to work), we then have a system in place that lets the government keep track of who's here, makes it easier for companies who depend on immigrant labor to hire them legally, and removes any incentive to hire illegal workers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Nightingale 0 #71 August 11, 2006 Quote The paperwork I'm referring to, makes an 'illegal' appear as though they were born here and not naturalized. That's very easy to do, if, for example, you're an apartment complex that gets identification from new renters, if you're a grocery store that cards for alcohol, or if you're a school that simply files away copies of birth certificates. It's not so easy if someone is dealing with a government entity or someone authorized to run a credit check. When you run a credit check, the SSN must match the name and birthday. To copy someone's SSN, you have to know their name and date of birth. Since usually only the name and SSN are printed on the card, this isn't an easy thing to do, even if you've stolen the card itself. When you're applying for government services, they check your documentation against official records. And believe me, they check. I couldn't renew my driver's license because the birthdate that social security had didn't match the date on my birth certificate or driver's license. After 9-11, all the systems are linked. Social security was able to look at DMV records with the click of a mouse, and DMV has access to social security records. I came in with my social security card, driver's license, passport, birth certificate, and even student ID and library cards, and because the birth date was wrong by one day on the social security records (someone made a typo when entering the data), it took a congressional inquiry to get it straightened out. It is not as easy to fool a government agency as you might think. If legitimate citizens with proper paperwork are going through stuff like this, imagine how accurate forged paperwork would have to be... Now, since the computers are linked, they can check a fake driver's license just by typing in the state and number, and they get a photo of the license, the name, and the driving record. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites masterrig 1 #72 August 11, 2006 QuoteQuote that is the criteria set down by the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization folks then, too bad if, they can't meet the standards. There will be jobs for illegals as long as big business hires them at a 'dirt-cheap' price. Fine heavily, those who hire illegals. Chuck Just like drugs, cigarettes, and alcohol... trying to limit supply (stop people from coming in) doesn't work. You must reduce demand. As far as I can see, the only thing that will reduce demand is the elimination of the minimum wage. As long as there is a minimum wage, there will be a demand for under the table labor. Farmers know that people don't want to pay $20 a basket for strawberries. If the farms want to stay in business, they MUST keep their costs down. About the only thing they can shortcut on is labor costs. As long as someone is willing to do the job for cheaper than the minimum wage, there will be a demand for illegal employment. Fining the farmers without removing minimum wage requirements won't work. It won't work because people won't pay $20 a basket for strawberries, and if they don't hire under the table, they go out of business anyway. Either the fines shut them down or the high minimum wage shuts them down. However, if you remove the minimum wage, you remove the incentive to hire people illegally, because you can now hire them legally. There's no reason not to hire people legally, because you can pay them the same amount you were paying the illegal hires. At that point, fining them for hiring illegal workers will actually accomplish something. The immigration criteria standards MUST change if we want to regulate the flow of people entering the US. Making the standards as strict as they are tells people that the ONLY way they can get here is illegally. If that's the only way, they'll take it. However, if we make it easier to immigrate (let in anyone with a job and a sponsor, for example) remove the minimum wage, and fine people who hire illegal workers (you have to have all three components for this to work), we then have a system in place that lets the government keep track of who's here, makes it easier for companies who depend on immigrant labor to hire them legally, and removes any incentive to hire illegal workers. __________________________________ I see your point, about the minnimum wage. Damned if you do... damned if you don't. I agree whole-heartedly about fining the companies who hire illegals. There are in fact, some good Immigration & Naturalization laws on the books. as we both know, enforcing those laws is another story. It's typical bureacracy as far as these laws go. Like everything else, laws are stacked on laws. Immigration law changes quite constantly. It may be a paragraph or a sentence but, they do change. The only time we hear of them changing is when there is a 'big' bill on the Senate or Congress floor. During the 70's and 80's, we read of this company or that company being 'raided' and fined for hiring illegals. We don't hear of that any more. Except for recently, there was mention of one company being raided. That was all. I blame the lobbyists! They buy-off the politicians and big business gets bigger. I think, a part of the problem is lobbyists. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites masterrig 1 #73 August 11, 2006 QuoteQuote The paperwork I'm referring to, makes an 'illegal' appear as though they were born here and not naturalized. That's very easy to do, if, for example, you're an apartment complex that gets identification from new renters, if you're a grocery store that cards for alcohol, or if you're a school that simply files away copies of birth certificates. It's not so easy if someone is dealing with a government entity or someone authorized to run a credit check. When you run a credit check, the SSN must match the name and birthday. To copy someone's SSN, you have to know their name and date of birth. Since usually only the name and SSN are printed on the card, this isn't an easy thing to do, even if you've stolen the card itself. When you're applying for government services, they check your documentation against official records. And believe me, they check. I couldn't renew my driver's license because the birthdate that social security had didn't match the date on my birth certificate or driver's license. After 9-11, all the systems are linked. Social security was able to look at DMV records with the click of a mouse, and DMV has access to social security records. I came in with my social security card, driver's license, passport, birth certificate, and even student ID and library cards, and because the birth date was wrong by one day on the social security records (someone made a typo when entering the data), it took a congressional inquiry to get it straightened out. It is not as easy to fool a government agency as you might think. If legitimate citizens with proper paperwork are going through stuff like this, imagine how accurate forged paperwork would have to be... Now, since the computers are linked, they can check a fake driver's license just by typing in the state and number, and they get a photo of the license, the name, and the driving record. ______________________________ Thank you, for that! I am, enlightened. What you said, is great. Out here in Podunk, Texas, things aren't checked so closely. Such as employers and some other facets of life. Some folks may look at it as 'Big Brother'. What you described, could save someone from identity theft. Like the 4-yr. old girl in Utah whose parents recently found-out, the little girl had run-up a huge debt in California. Some illegal, was 'using' her Social Security number. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites masterrig 1 #74 August 11, 2006 QuoteQuoteI have encountered people from both Canada and Mexico who have a disdain for the US. These are first-hand incidents. Well what do you expect? With your "America is the best and fuck the rest of the world" attitude, of course YOU are going to encounter people who don't like people like ... YOU. _______________________________ You mean like, Americans going to Canada or any other country and get upset because it isn't like the 'States'? Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CanuckInUSA 0 #75 August 11, 2006 Just trying to stir the pot when I encounter posts which stereotype certain nationalities and/or races. Not all Canadians and Mexicans have a disdain for the States. But there are enough people who are sick of the arrogance of some yanks. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next Page 3 of 6 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
kallend 2,093 #66 August 11, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteHave you ever seen some of the 'paperwork' available? For the right price, one can obtain a birth certificate, Social Security card, Driver's license, whatever. That paperwork isn't looked at very closely, either. 'Provong' citizenship isn't difficult, at all. Chuck " If the government has the technology to listen to every phone call on the planet, how come it can't keep track of those to whom it grants legal status without their having to keep "paperwork"?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #67 August 11, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteHave you ever seen some of the 'paperwork' available? For the right price, one can obtain a birth certificate, Social Security card, Driver's license, whatever. That paperwork isn't looked at very closely, either. 'Provong' citizenship isn't difficult, at all. Chuck " If the government has the technology to listen to every phone call on the planet, how come it can't keep track of those to whom it grants legal status without their having to keep "paperwork"? _____________________________ That is a question that could keep politicians busy for a good, long time! I wish I had an answer for you. The paperwork I'm referring to, makes an 'illegal' appear as though they were born here and not naturalized. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #68 August 11, 2006 QuoteI have encountered people from both Canada and Mexico who have a disdain for the US. These are first-hand incidents. Well what do you expect? With your "America is the best and fuck the rest of the world" attitude, of course YOU are going to encounter people who don't like people like ... YOU. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #69 August 11, 2006 Hell you dont have to be a furiner to fall into that category Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #70 August 11, 2006 Quote that is the criteria set down by the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization folks then, too bad if, they can't meet the standards. There will be jobs for illegals as long as big business hires them at a 'dirt-cheap' price. Fine heavily, those who hire illegals. Chuck Just like drugs, cigarettes, and alcohol... trying to limit supply (stop people from coming in) doesn't work. You must reduce demand. As far as I can see, the only thing that will reduce demand is the elimination of the minimum wage. As long as there is a minimum wage, there will be a demand for under the table labor. Farmers know that people don't want to pay $20 a basket for strawberries. If the farms want to stay in business, they MUST keep their costs down. About the only thing they can shortcut on is labor costs. As long as someone is willing to do the job for cheaper than the minimum wage, there will be a demand for illegal employment. Fining the farmers without removing minimum wage requirements won't work. It won't work because people won't pay $20 a basket for strawberries, and if they don't hire under the table, they go out of business anyway. Either the fines shut them down or the high minimum wage shuts them down. However, if you remove the minimum wage, you remove the incentive to hire people illegally, because you can now hire them legally. There's no reason not to hire people legally, because you can pay them the same amount you were paying the illegal hires. At that point, fining them for hiring illegal workers will actually accomplish something. The immigration criteria standards MUST change if we want to regulate the flow of people entering the US. Making the standards as strict as they are tells people that the ONLY way they can get here is illegally. If that's the only way, they'll take it. However, if we make it easier to immigrate (let in anyone with a job and a sponsor, for example) remove the minimum wage, and fine people who hire illegal workers (you have to have all three components for this to work), we then have a system in place that lets the government keep track of who's here, makes it easier for companies who depend on immigrant labor to hire them legally, and removes any incentive to hire illegal workers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #71 August 11, 2006 Quote The paperwork I'm referring to, makes an 'illegal' appear as though they were born here and not naturalized. That's very easy to do, if, for example, you're an apartment complex that gets identification from new renters, if you're a grocery store that cards for alcohol, or if you're a school that simply files away copies of birth certificates. It's not so easy if someone is dealing with a government entity or someone authorized to run a credit check. When you run a credit check, the SSN must match the name and birthday. To copy someone's SSN, you have to know their name and date of birth. Since usually only the name and SSN are printed on the card, this isn't an easy thing to do, even if you've stolen the card itself. When you're applying for government services, they check your documentation against official records. And believe me, they check. I couldn't renew my driver's license because the birthdate that social security had didn't match the date on my birth certificate or driver's license. After 9-11, all the systems are linked. Social security was able to look at DMV records with the click of a mouse, and DMV has access to social security records. I came in with my social security card, driver's license, passport, birth certificate, and even student ID and library cards, and because the birth date was wrong by one day on the social security records (someone made a typo when entering the data), it took a congressional inquiry to get it straightened out. It is not as easy to fool a government agency as you might think. If legitimate citizens with proper paperwork are going through stuff like this, imagine how accurate forged paperwork would have to be... Now, since the computers are linked, they can check a fake driver's license just by typing in the state and number, and they get a photo of the license, the name, and the driving record. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #72 August 11, 2006 QuoteQuote that is the criteria set down by the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization folks then, too bad if, they can't meet the standards. There will be jobs for illegals as long as big business hires them at a 'dirt-cheap' price. Fine heavily, those who hire illegals. Chuck Just like drugs, cigarettes, and alcohol... trying to limit supply (stop people from coming in) doesn't work. You must reduce demand. As far as I can see, the only thing that will reduce demand is the elimination of the minimum wage. As long as there is a minimum wage, there will be a demand for under the table labor. Farmers know that people don't want to pay $20 a basket for strawberries. If the farms want to stay in business, they MUST keep their costs down. About the only thing they can shortcut on is labor costs. As long as someone is willing to do the job for cheaper than the minimum wage, there will be a demand for illegal employment. Fining the farmers without removing minimum wage requirements won't work. It won't work because people won't pay $20 a basket for strawberries, and if they don't hire under the table, they go out of business anyway. Either the fines shut them down or the high minimum wage shuts them down. However, if you remove the minimum wage, you remove the incentive to hire people illegally, because you can now hire them legally. There's no reason not to hire people legally, because you can pay them the same amount you were paying the illegal hires. At that point, fining them for hiring illegal workers will actually accomplish something. The immigration criteria standards MUST change if we want to regulate the flow of people entering the US. Making the standards as strict as they are tells people that the ONLY way they can get here is illegally. If that's the only way, they'll take it. However, if we make it easier to immigrate (let in anyone with a job and a sponsor, for example) remove the minimum wage, and fine people who hire illegal workers (you have to have all three components for this to work), we then have a system in place that lets the government keep track of who's here, makes it easier for companies who depend on immigrant labor to hire them legally, and removes any incentive to hire illegal workers. __________________________________ I see your point, about the minnimum wage. Damned if you do... damned if you don't. I agree whole-heartedly about fining the companies who hire illegals. There are in fact, some good Immigration & Naturalization laws on the books. as we both know, enforcing those laws is another story. It's typical bureacracy as far as these laws go. Like everything else, laws are stacked on laws. Immigration law changes quite constantly. It may be a paragraph or a sentence but, they do change. The only time we hear of them changing is when there is a 'big' bill on the Senate or Congress floor. During the 70's and 80's, we read of this company or that company being 'raided' and fined for hiring illegals. We don't hear of that any more. Except for recently, there was mention of one company being raided. That was all. I blame the lobbyists! They buy-off the politicians and big business gets bigger. I think, a part of the problem is lobbyists. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #73 August 11, 2006 QuoteQuote The paperwork I'm referring to, makes an 'illegal' appear as though they were born here and not naturalized. That's very easy to do, if, for example, you're an apartment complex that gets identification from new renters, if you're a grocery store that cards for alcohol, or if you're a school that simply files away copies of birth certificates. It's not so easy if someone is dealing with a government entity or someone authorized to run a credit check. When you run a credit check, the SSN must match the name and birthday. To copy someone's SSN, you have to know their name and date of birth. Since usually only the name and SSN are printed on the card, this isn't an easy thing to do, even if you've stolen the card itself. When you're applying for government services, they check your documentation against official records. And believe me, they check. I couldn't renew my driver's license because the birthdate that social security had didn't match the date on my birth certificate or driver's license. After 9-11, all the systems are linked. Social security was able to look at DMV records with the click of a mouse, and DMV has access to social security records. I came in with my social security card, driver's license, passport, birth certificate, and even student ID and library cards, and because the birth date was wrong by one day on the social security records (someone made a typo when entering the data), it took a congressional inquiry to get it straightened out. It is not as easy to fool a government agency as you might think. If legitimate citizens with proper paperwork are going through stuff like this, imagine how accurate forged paperwork would have to be... Now, since the computers are linked, they can check a fake driver's license just by typing in the state and number, and they get a photo of the license, the name, and the driving record. ______________________________ Thank you, for that! I am, enlightened. What you said, is great. Out here in Podunk, Texas, things aren't checked so closely. Such as employers and some other facets of life. Some folks may look at it as 'Big Brother'. What you described, could save someone from identity theft. Like the 4-yr. old girl in Utah whose parents recently found-out, the little girl had run-up a huge debt in California. Some illegal, was 'using' her Social Security number. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #74 August 11, 2006 QuoteQuoteI have encountered people from both Canada and Mexico who have a disdain for the US. These are first-hand incidents. Well what do you expect? With your "America is the best and fuck the rest of the world" attitude, of course YOU are going to encounter people who don't like people like ... YOU. _______________________________ You mean like, Americans going to Canada or any other country and get upset because it isn't like the 'States'? Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #75 August 11, 2006 Just trying to stir the pot when I encounter posts which stereotype certain nationalities and/or races. Not all Canadians and Mexicans have a disdain for the States. But there are enough people who are sick of the arrogance of some yanks. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites