masterrig 1 #76 August 11, 2006 QuoteJust trying to stir the pot when I encounter posts which stereotype certain nationalities and/or races. Not all Canadians and Mexicans have a distain for the States. But there are enough people who are sick of the arrogance of some yanks. ___________________________ I understand that! People just generalize too quickly. I savvy 'arrogance'. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nathaniel 0 #77 August 11, 2006 QuoteQuote Illegal immigrants take more than they give, and the taxpayers pay for this free ride. Wait for the economy to turn south. It gets worse. Do you have any sources to back this up? Last I checked, we've been hearing the same thing since before the Irish showed up here in en masse in the early 1800s. Of course he doesn't, because the facts are demonstrably opposite.My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #78 August 11, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuote Illegal immigrants take more than they give, and the taxpayers pay for this free ride. Wait for the economy to turn south. It gets worse. Do you have any sources to back this up? Last I checked, we've been hearing the same thing since before the Irish showed up here in en masse in the early 1800s. Of course he doesn't, because the facts are demonstrably opposite. You can provide facts demonstrating that illegal immigrants pay more in taxes than they use? Let's see 'em! Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #79 August 12, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Illegal immigrants take more than they give, and the taxpayers pay for this free ride. Wait for the economy to turn south. It gets worse. Do you have any sources to back this up? Last I checked, we've been hearing the same thing since before the Irish showed up here in en masse in the early 1800s. Of course he doesn't, because the facts are demonstrably opposite. You can provide facts demonstrating that illegal immigrants pay more in taxes than they use? Let's see 'em! Blues, Dave Sure! Here ya go: "According to a study by the Urban Institute, the 1996 welfare reform effort dramatically reduced the use of welfare by undocumented immigrant households, exactly as intended. And another vital thing happened in 1996: the Internal Revenue Service began issuing identification numbers to enable illegal immigrants who don't have Social Security numbers to file taxes. One might have imagined that those fearing deportation or confronting the prospect of paying for their safety net through their own meager wages would take a pass on the IRS' scheme. Not so. Close to 8 million of the 12 million or so illegal aliens in the country today file personal income taxes using these numbers, contributing billions to federal coffers. No doubt they hope that this will one day help them acquire legal status—a plaintive expression of their desire to play by the rules and come out of the shadows. What's more, aliens who are not self-employed have Social Security and Medicare taxes automatically withheld from their paychecks. Since undocumented workers have only fake numbers, they'll never be able to collect the benefits these taxes are meant to pay for. Last year, the revenues from these fake numbers—that the Social Security administration stashes in the “earnings suspense file”—added up to 10 percent of the Social Security surplus. The file is growing, on average, by more than $50 billion a year. Beyond federal taxes, all illegals automatically pay state sales taxes that contribute toward the upkeep of public facilities such as roads that they use, and property taxes through their rent that contribute toward the schooling of their children. The non-partisan National Research Council found that when the taxes paid by the children of low-skilled immigrant families—most of whom are illegal—are factored in, they contribute on average $80,000 more to federal coffers than they consume." -Tribune News Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BRIDGEWOOD 0 #80 August 12, 2006 This kinda stuff is what I associate with illegals http://www.bizzyblog.com/?p=2696 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #81 August 12, 2006 QuoteThis kinda stuff is what I associate with illegals http://www.bizzyblog.com/?p=2696 And this is the kinda stuff I associate with smokers. Fortunately, my own mental associations don't make all, most, or even a majority litterers. Just because it's an idea in my head about a certain class of people doesn't make it correct. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rickjump1 0 #82 August 12, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuote Illegal immigrants take more than they give, and the taxpayers pay for this free ride. Wait for the economy to turn south. It gets worse. Do you have any sources to back this up? Last I checked, we've been hearing the same thing since before the Irish showed up here in en masse in the early 1800s. Of course he doesn't, because the facts are demonstrably opposite. Take a look at this. This is not a border state where illegal immigrant free healthcare is epidemic. Joined: Jan 12, 2006 Posts: 511 Location: Tennessee Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 8:54 pm Post subject: TennCare Cost of Illegals -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TennCare spends $15 million on illegal immigrants By John Rodgers, jrodgers@nashvillecitypaper.com August 11, 2006 BRENTWOOD - TennCare spends an estimated $15 million a year paying for emergency care for illegal immigrants, according to testimony at a congressional field hearing on immigration’s effects here Thursday. The health care spending on illegal immigrants also extends to the private sector. A Vanderbilt University Medical Center (VUMC) representative said he estimates the hospital loses $3.8 million annually caring for illegal immigrants. U.S. Rep. Marsha Blackburn (R-Brentwood) appeared with U.S. Rep. Nathan Deal (R-Georgia) at the hearing to talk about illegal immigration and what the federal government has done to address it, and to hear from medical industry officials as to its effects. “The primary point of our investigation is simple – we have limited resources to support programs for those in this country legally,” Blackburn said. “And it is simply inappropriate that taxpayer dollars be used for those people who have broken our laws and are defrauding our system.” The state Democratic Party called the hearing a “sham” and “playing politics” while pointing out that Republicans have held the White House and both the U.S. House and Senate for years and haven’t addressed the issue. Also, Linda Rose, a managing partner with Rose Immigration Law Firm in Nashville, denied that illegal immigrants have a negative impact on health care and its cost. Rose argued that the field hearing overlooked the “billions” undocumented workers contribute toward the health care system from paying taxes through their employers as well as sales taxes. In testimony Thursday, however, Dr. Darin P. Gordon, the director of the Bureau of TennCare, gave estimates reporting that TennCare reimbursed medical facilities $1.7 million last month and averages $15 million in reimbursements per year to pay for illegal immigrants’ medical care. That $15 million is only a small portion, though, of TennCare’s $7 billion budget. “Except I consider $15 million a lot of money,” Gordon said in response to questioning by Blackburn. “Well, I do too,” Blackburn responded. “I consider it to be an incredibly large amount of money … every dollar a taxpayer spends is a lot of money.” Federal law requires TennCare, the state’s expanded Medicaid program, to pay for anyone’s emergency care – legal or illegal. Gordon said TennCare does not let illegal immigrants onto the permanent rolls, just long enough to care for the emergency service. The most prominent of emergency room cases are illegal immigrant women coming to give birth, Gordon said. When those children are born, they become legal U.S. citizens. That $15 million the state spends may pale in comparison, however, to spending by hospitals to provide emergency care for illegal immigrants. At Vanderbilt alone, VUMC estimated it lost $3.8 million to date this year caring for undocumented workers. Gary R. Perrizo, the director of patient accounting at VUMC, testified that the hospital admitted 174 undocumented patients between Jan. 1 and Aug. 6, 2006, which is a 17 percent increase versus the same period in 2005. In addition, Perrizo testified that between Jan. 1 and March 31, 2006, 504 possible illegal immigrants received emergency care but were not admitted to VUMC. Emergency room staff has “no way of knowing” whether a person is legally or illegally in the U.S., he said. “We are morally and legally obligated to provide care for anyone who is in urgent need,” Perrizo said. “But that moral commitment and legal requirement to care for those in need has come to carry a significant price tag for hospitals and doctors alike.” The recently passed federal Deficit Reduction Act requires TennCare to check certain documentation to verify whether an applicant is legally allowed to be within the U.S. http://www.nashvillecitypaper.com/index.cfm?section=9&screen=news&news_id=51493 This is just one aspect of ILLEGAL immigration. Have you ever looked at the wanted posters at your local post office? Take a look next time. _________________Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nathaniel 0 #83 August 12, 2006 It's 100% true that immigrants drain resources from the states & localities where they originally settle (and then move on, as they integrate), and that's something that our federal gov't should address with subsidies. Kinda like how the interstate system works, where the federal gov't gives out money to the states, in return for the national economic benefit provided from the roads. In the case of immigrants, they pay back directly over time, so it's not even a question of diverting other funds. It's not an argument against immigration, because the economics shows that the net benefit is still overwhelmingly in favor of allowing immigrants.My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BRIDGEWOOD 0 #84 August 12, 2006 True except that I bet most, if not all people illegaly entering this country litter. What else are they gonna do with it? So, within a day or two of entering they have broken 2 laws....... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #85 August 12, 2006 QuoteTrue except that I bet most, if not all people illegaly entering this country litter. What else are they gonna do with it? So, within a day or two of entering they have broken 2 laws....... When's the last time you broke the speed limit? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #86 August 12, 2006 You should see all the crap they leave along the border... looks like a trash dump! The land owners have to clean it up and truck it out. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BRIDGEWOOD 0 #87 August 12, 2006 Honestly I don't see how going 5-10 mph over the speed limit can compare to leaving milk cartons, drug syringes, bags, and various other crap all over the ground for animals to consume. Yeah it may be breaking the law but it doesn't compare to what these people are doing to the environment, not to mention the eyesore's they are creating. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squarecanopy 0 #88 August 12, 2006 Immigration has always been necessary to promote the economic growth and health of this country because in every generation there have always been jobs that some Americans were unwilling to do but that needed to be done, and those jobs have been done by the Chinese, Irish, Polish, Mexican, etc etc etc immigrants of that generation. My ancestors were some of those "stinking Micks" that came to this country and did their part to make America great by IMMIGRATING HERE LEGALLY, rolling up their sleeves, working thier butts off, LEARNING ENGLISH, advancing themselves by work-thrift-multigenerational upward economic advancement by legal means, BECOMING AMERICAN CITIZENS in accord with the laws of the day, and pursuing life, liberty and happiness. They did not insist that they could be here in opposition to American laws, they did not insist that everyone speak Gaelic to them so they could have a job/home/schooling for their children, and they did not spend their time protesting laws that were fair to all Americans so they could do what the hell they wanted instead of obeying the same rules that all immigrants of their time obeyed. I find it amazing that any American would support illegal immigration anymore than they would support any other form of mass distain for our laws and culture. It is obvious which side of this argument a person is on by their convenient and deliberat avoidance of the issue of the ILLEGAL part of ILLEGAL ALIEN. Just burning a hole in the sky..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nathaniel 0 #89 August 12, 2006 Quote Honestly I don't see how going 5-10 mph over the speed limit can compare Yeah it's not like milk cartons or other eyesores actually kill people or emit carbon dioxide by the ton...My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,092 #90 August 12, 2006 QuoteYou should see all the crap they leave along the border... looks like a trash dump! The land owners have to clean it up and truck it out. Chuck Have you been to a Pro Football game or rock concert recently? I suppose all the spectators/fans are illegals too That argument is plain silly.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #91 August 12, 2006 Well sir, it's important to those ranchers along the border whose land the ILLEGALS are trashing-up! We're not talking Packers, Dolphins or Bengals fans here. Those ranches being trashed-up are a family's way of life and livlihood. Then to have someone come along and trash it up? It'd make me mad too. Comparing that to a football game or a rock concert is silly. You people keep confusing LEGAL with ILLEGAL! We're not talking about those folks who come through ports of entry and apply for citizenship. We are talking about those people who race across our borders in droves. We are talking about people breaking laws to get here. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,092 #92 August 12, 2006 QuoteWell sir, it's important to those ranchers along the border whose land the ILLEGALS are trashing-up! We're not talking Packers, Dolphins or Bengals fans here. Those ranches being trashed-up are a family's way of life and livlihood. Then to have someone come along and trash it up? It'd make me mad too. Comparing that to a football game or a rock concert is silly. You people keep confusing LEGAL with ILLEGAL! We're not talking about those folks who come through ports of entry and apply for citizenship. We are talking about those people who race across our borders in droves. We are talking about people breaking laws to get here. Chuck Citizens and legal aliens trash too. Associating trashing with illegals is silly.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #93 August 12, 2006 QuoteCitizens and legal aliens trash too. Associating trashing with illegals is silly. He's not saying the illegals are the only ones that leave trash laying around the countryside....he IS saying that they're the ones leaving trash all over the entry corridors from Mexico. Add to that the livestock lost due to downed fences, damages to farm equipment/crops/etc...Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #94 August 12, 2006 QuoteQuoteWell sir, it's important to those ranchers along the border whose land the ILLEGALS are trashing-up! We're not talking Packers, Dolphins or Bengals fans here. Those ranches being trashed-up are a family's way of life and livlihood. Then to have someone come along and trash it up? It'd make me mad too. Comparing that to a football game or a rock concert is silly. You people keep confusing LEGAL with ILLEGAL! We're not talking about those folks who come through ports of entry and apply for citizenship. We are talking about those people who race across our borders in droves. We are talking about people breaking laws to get here. Chuck Citizens and legal aliens trash too. Associating trashing with illegals is silly. _________________________________ True story! It is, a 'part' of the problem. I am only pointing out a part of the problem that 'directly' effects ranch owners and property owners along the border. Not just the extensive littering but also, the destruction of fences, the breaking-in of their homes and out-buildings not to mention the theft. I know a ranch owner in one of the border counties who has had his home broken into six times. He's had vehicles stolen, equipment as well as 'personal' belongings stolen. Directly connected with illegal aliens. Noone, should have to live like that! Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #95 August 12, 2006 Agreed! This is one of the reasons why we need to streamline our immigration procedures so we can actually begin to regulate immigration and keep track of who's here. If people know they've got a good chance at getting here legally, there's no reason to go crawling under fences and taking long journeys where there are no trash cans. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
azdiver 0 #96 August 12, 2006 the debate on illegal imagration shouldnt be based only on the effect it has on the gdp but on the peoples personnel lives it affects as well, illegels put a strain on edu. health care, jobs traffic, and crime. i have lived in a lot of differnt parts of the country, crime in az is outragous and most is due to illegals, they have minimal wages and to make up for what they cant buy they steal. illegals drive around without current tags and no ins.and then get into accidents and it screws everyone involved if you dont have full coverage some thing alot of people cant afford, and as far as the drain on gov funds when they dont pay for services the govt gets stuck with the tab and scince their not paying taxes theres no reqouping the losses. and that is why az passed prop 204. and we are all racist to, atleast according to mexicolight travels faster than sound, that's why some people appear to be bright until you hear them speak Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
azdiver 0 #97 August 12, 2006 the fact they we have a 100 percent volunteer military is the reason we have the best militarylight travels faster than sound, that's why some people appear to be bright until you hear them speak Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #98 August 12, 2006 QuoteAgreed! This is one of the reasons why we need to streamline our immigration procedures so we can actually begin to regulate immigration and keep track of who's here. If people know they've got a good chance at getting here legally, there's no reason to go crawling under fences and taking long journeys where there are no trash cans. ____________________________________ edit to add: I like the way you said that. Right-on! Sadly, buracracy just stacks laws on laws on laws. What they need to do is throw all of them out and start all over with new more logical and reasonable laws. When a trainee, enters the U.S. Border Patrol Academy, one of the first things the trainee is assigned are two large 3-ring binders. Along with that, 2-tall stacks of Immigration and Naturalization laws. Plus, a large stack of 'revisions'! That's ridiculous. On the other hand, I don't believe that bureaucrats understand 'easy' or 'simple'. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #99 August 12, 2006 QuoteQuoteCitizens and legal aliens trash too. Associating trashing with illegals is silly. He's not saying the illegals are the only ones that leave trash laying around the countryside....he IS saying that they're the ones leaving trash all over the entry corridors from Mexico. Add to that the livestock lost due to downed fences, damages to farm equipment/crops/etc... _______________________________ Thank you! Well said. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,046 #100 August 14, 2006 >Honestly I don't see how going 5-10 mph over the speed limit can compare to leaving milk cartons . . . A milk carton won't result in this: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
