Isn't this the kind of thing you want to NOT say?

[quade 4]

This was a conflict between Israel and Hezbollah and the most recent event was a ceasefire.

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/08/14/D8JGDGBO0.html

I simply don't understand it.

If the President wanted to make us safer, then wouldn't he keep comments such as these to himself?

Specifically this one;

Quote

"There's going to be a new power in the south of Lebanon," Bush said.

Doesn't that just make all terrorists want to damage us all the more?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[billvon 3,009]

He very desperately needs a victory at this point. He has already claimed that this war, the Iraq war and Afghanistan are all parts of his War on Terror. Claiming that Israel defeated Hezbollah means we're at least winning _something_ - and he very much needs a victory at this point, with the situation in Baghdad worsening daily, Al Qaeda still in operation and the Taliban making a reappearance.

[livendive 8]

Sounds a lot like, "mission accomplished!"

I like how Iran and Syria are to blame for Hezbollah's actions, but Lebanon is not.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[quade 4]

But it wasn't a defeat; was it?

It was simply a very tentative ceasefire. The entire thing could blow back up at a moment's notice.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[vortexring 0]

Quote

But it wasn't a defeat; was it?

It was simply a very tentative ceasefire. The entire thing could blow back up at a moment's notice.

The real war is about to begin.

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[Gawain 0]

The idea being that Hizbollah will not be operating with impunity in southern Lebanon. Lebanese troops will be augmented with an international force with a stronger mandate (in theory) than the wholly ineffective UN presence that has been there.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[billvon 3,009]

>But it wasn't a defeat; was it?

The actualities don't really matter, do they? It's the perception that will shape public opinion, and help or hinder the administration's future goals.

>The entire thing could blow back up at a moment's notice.

Of course, and it likely will. But that can be _another_ war on terror. And since we (or the forces of good) won this one, we'll be able to win the next one too.

[miked10270 0]

There's nothing... NOTHING like a short & successful war to ensure political popularity at home.

A nice, clean, Hollywood-Style war with a strong-jawed right-thinking hero, and an exil, slinking villain who is ultimately hoist by his own Petard.

Dubbie has been desperately seeking just such a war - thus far without success. Afghanistan is still ongoing, as is Iraq. The "Wart-on-Error" and the hunt for OBL has left the Western Intelligenge Agencies & Special Forces loking more like Maxwell Smart than James Bond.

Hence, in his increasingly desperate attempts to try & appear like Harrison Ford ? President Ryan to the electorate, and thus ensure the continuation of his regime, he now turns to ANY available war to claim some form of victory, even if it's a voyeuristic victory by proxy. At least it gives the blindly patriotic something to cheer.

Thus he will argue for a continuation of the recent regime. The one that took America in 2000 and made it what it is today.

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[Stumpy 284]

Thats odd - hezbollah are claiming victory as well!

If you gotta tell everyone you won, you didn't win. And since both the israelis (and GWB) and Hezbollah seem to be doing it in this case.....

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[quade 4]

I guess what I find exceptionally hilarious about the President's claims are that the US really didn't have all that much to do with the cease fire.

It was brokered by the U.N. (usually much hated by the far right wing).

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[shropshire 0]

Yeah but look what the sneaky little twat has done, is put the UN in harms way (again).

Maybe, the UN force will be sucessfull in keeping the IDF & Hezz apart, but maybe they will just get caught in between....."Oh Look how shite the UN is... they failed... shame."

Meanwhile, the IDF get re-armed by George and Hezz by Toys-R-Us.

.


.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Skyrad 0]

Quote

The idea being that Hizbollah will not be operating with impunity in southern Lebanon. Lebanese troops will be augmented with an international force with a stronger mandate (in theory) than the wholly ineffective UN presence that has been there.

The UN troops have been there as monitors not peace enforcers, and to be peace keepers first there must be a peace to keep.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[vortexring 0]

The US have been claiming a victory?

If the situation wasn't so serious I'd be pissing myself.

That's just f**king OUTRAGEOUS.

Surely I'm mistaken at what people are getting at in this thread?

The real war will be beginning shortly.

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[Eatgrass 0]

Quote

This was a conflict between Israel and Hezbollah and the most recent event was a ceasefire.

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/08/14/D8JGDGBO0.html

I simply don't understand it.

If the President wanted to make us safer, then wouldn't he keep comments such as these to himself?

Specifically this one;

Quote

"There's going to be a new power in the south of Lebanon," Bush said.

Doesn't that just make all terrorists want to damage us all the more?

They want to and have damaged us anyway <9/11>
Bush don't seem to smart for a guy with a Harvard education at times but I'll give him this....its best to take the fight to the enemy rather than set at home and wait for the next attack....Another old trick that works both in street fighting and war is piss the enemy off to the point they begin to make mistakes,
keep them off balance....just keep sticking them
hell they want to hurt you anyway.....what ya got to loose? In my younger day I was in fights where people were knocking the hell out of each other trying to get at me. Nope I don't like Bush, didn't vote for him or his father but in his own bumbling way he's doing the right thing by dissing
their radicals & keeping the pressure on those butthooks over there...The civilians getting killed is a tough break...but war is that way more noncombatants die in every war than fighters do. If it was me I'd let the IDF finish it off, most of the collateral damage is already done besides every Hamas they kill is one less thats going to bother our boys in Iraq....its all a network/a shame really because most muslins even though they might not care for the west follow the Koran and are peaceable...Their held hostage by these radical young jerks... like pay hommage or die ya know?
These Terrorist types follow one radical leader or another and don't study their own Koran or follow it's basic principles, I saw a vet group intell report that said many of the foreign fighters coming into Iraq are paid fighters....plus they are willing to kill each other over denominational things, like about something that happened centurys ago....Their kinda like our own worst case Christian fundamentalists; pick one thing out of the book that fits their needs and ignore the rest.

relax kids, all you need is airtime airtime airtime and the ability to relax of course
Plan your dive and dive your plan bsbs

• Quote

[Gawain 0]

Quote

Quote

The idea being that Hizbollah will not be operating with impunity in southern Lebanon. Lebanese troops will be augmented with an international force with a stronger mandate (in theory) than the wholly ineffective UN presence that has been there.

The UN troops have been there as monitors not peace enforcers, and to be peace keepers first there must be a peace to keep.

The UN troops there were to observe and enforce Hizbollah's disarmament. In light of the past month's fighting, I'd say they have prooved themselves ineffective.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

The UN troops there were to observe and enforce Hizbollah's disarmament. In light of the past month's fighting, I'd say they have prooved themselves ineffective.

And the US troops are in Iraq to create freedom. In light of the past couple of years, I'd say they have prooved themselves ineffective and inadequate.

[kallend 2,034]

Quote

Quote

The UN troops there were to observe and enforce Hizbollah's disarmament. In light of the past month's fighting, I'd say they have prooved themselves ineffective.

And the US troops are in Iraq to create freedom. In light of the past couple of years, I'd say they have prooved themselves ineffective and inadequate.

And then there was the time that catching OBL was our "Number one priority".

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[vortexring 0]

Keeping all this on topic - and avoiding any America bashing(unecessary - they're extremely effective at doing this all on their own), how on earth can America claim Israel are victorious!!!!???

This is beyond the realms of sanity.

Israeli objectives(?):

1=Cripple Hizbollah's military capability. FAILED

2=The elimination of autonomous governing structures in S. Lebanon. FAILED

3=Arrival of international force to prevent Hizbollah rebuilding positions. FAILED

4=Keep friendly casualties to minimum. FAILED

5=Maintain prestige and moral authority. FAILED

6=Maintain through action, military reputation. FAILED

The list is endless. What makes it all the more worse is the simple fact this recent conflict had been planned, with US knowledge, for at least a year!!!!!!!

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[cumplidor 0]

Quote

In Reply To
Quote
The UN troops there were to observe and enforce Hizbollah's disarmament. In light of the past month's fighting, I'd say they have prooved themselves ineffective.

And the US troops are in Iraq to create freedom. In light of the past couple of years, I'd say they have prooved themselves ineffective and inadequate.

And then there was the time that catching OBL was our "Number one priority".
...

Just goes to show how ADD is not limited to children...

[Darius11 12]

Quote

The list is endless. What makes it all the more worse is the simple fact this recent conflict had been planned, with US knowledge, for at least a year!!!!!!!

How dare you say that The Muslims started this war!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Don’t you know they are to blame for everything?

Crazy if this was planed then who is to blame for the bloodshed? I am sure the blind and ignorant will still find a way to blame the Muslims.

Oh yea and we hate Israel because there Jews it has nothing to do with the bloodshed they have caused, the country they destroyed, or the children they murdered
Will people’s ignorance ever end?

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Tonto 1]

Quote

Bush don't seem to smart for a guy with a Harvard education

I thought he went to Yale. http://www.whitehouse.gov/president/gwbbio.html

But then read that his Masters was from Harvard.

Apologies.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[warpedskydiver 0]

Quote

Thats odd - hezbollah are claiming victory as well!

If you gotta tell everyone you won, you didn't win. And since both the israelis (and GWB) and Hezbollah seem to be doing it in this case.....

Ask the French about that, They won WWI and WWII, ask them they will tell you outright that they won.

[vortexring 0]

Quote

Quote

The list is endless. What makes it all the more worse is the simple fact this recent conflict had been planned, with US knowledge, for at least a year!!!!!!!

How dare you say that The Muslims started this war!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Don’t you know they are to blame for everything?

Crazy if this was planed then who is to blame for the bloodshed? I am sure the blind and ignorant will still find a way to blame the Muslims.

Oh yea and we hate Israel because there Jews it has nothing to do with the bloodshed they have caused, the country they destroyed, or the children they murdered
Will people’s ignorance ever end?

Only when they read and look into things a bit deeper.

Israel planned this recent conflict, as in turn, Hizbollah did likewise. In the part where you've quoted me I'm referring to Israel.

Now, drink this glass of milk..........

Edited to add: Where did I say muslims started the war? Are you drunk?

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

Israel planned this recent conflict, as in turn

Off course they did, the chief of staff of the Israeli army sold all his shares three hours after the abduction and just as Israel started fighting.

[idrankwhat 0]

Quote

The UN troops have been there as monitors not peace enforcers, and to be peace keepers first there must be a peace to keep.

Don't hold your breath folks.

As the 6 AM Cease-Fire Takes Effect ... the Real War Begins
By Robert Fisk
The Independent UK

Monday 14 August 2006

The real war in Lebanon begins today. The world may believe - and Israel may believe - that the UN ceasefire due to come into effect at 6am today will mark the beginning of the end of the latest dirty war in Lebanon after up to 1,000 Lebanese civilians and more than 30 Israeli civilians have been killed. But the reality is quite different and will suffer no such self-delusion: the Israeli army, reeling under the Hizbollah's onslaught of the past 24 hours, is now facing the harshest guerrilla war in its history. And it is a war they may well lose.

In all, at least 39 - possibly 43 - Israeli soldiers have been killed in the past day as Hizbollah guerrillas, still launching missiles into Israel itself, have fought back against Israel's massive land invasion into Lebanon.

Israeli military authorities talked of "cleaning" and "mopping up" operations by their soldiers south of the Litani river but, to the Lebanese, it seems as if it is the Hizbollah that have been doing the "mopping up". By last night, the Israelis had not even been able to reach the dead crew of a helicopter - shot down on Saturday night - which crashed into a Lebanese valley.

Officially, Israel has now accepted the UN ceasefire that calls for an end to all Israeli offensive military operations and Hizbollah attacks, and the Hizbollah have stated that they will abide by the ceasefire - providing no Israeli troops remain inside Lebanon. But 10,000 Israeli soldiers - the Israelis even suggest 30,000, although no one in Beirut takes that seriously - have now entered the country and every one of them is a Hizbollah target.

From this morning, Hizbollah's operations will be directed solely against the invasion force. And the Israelis cannot afford to lose 40 men a day. Unable to shoot down the Israeli F-16 aircraft that have laid waste to much of Lebanon, the Hizbollah have, for years, prayed and longed and waited for the moment when they could attack the Israeli army on the ground.

Now they are set to put their long-planned campaign into operation. Thousands of their members remain alive and armed in the ruined hill villages of southern Lebanon for just this moment and, only hours after their leader, Sayed Hassan Nasrallah, warned Israel on Saturday that his men were waiting for them on the banks of the Litani river, the Hizbollah sprang their trap, killing more than 20 Israeli soldiers in less than three hours.

Israel itself, according to reports from Washington and New York, had long planned its current campaign against Lebanon - provoked by Hizbollah's crossing of the Israeli frontier, its killing of three soldiers and seizure of two others on 12 July - but the Israelis appear to have taken no account of the guerrilla army's most obvious operational plan: that if they could endure days of air attacks, they would eventually force Israel's army to re-enter Lebanon on the ground and fight them on equal terms.

Hizbollah's laser-guided missiles - Iranian-made, just as most Israeli arms are US-made - appear to have caused havoc among Israeli troops on Saturday, and their downing of an Israeli helicopter was without precedent in their long war against Israel.

In theory, aid convoys will be able to move south today to the thousands of Lebanese Shia trapped in their villages but no one knows whether the Hizbollah will wait for several days - they, like the Israelis, are physically tired - to allow that help to reach the crushed towns.

Atrocities continue across Lebanon, the most recent being the attack on a convoy of cars carrying 600 Christian families from the southern town of Marjayoun. Led by soldiers of the Lebanese army, they trailed north on Saturday up the Bekaa valley only to be assaulted by Israeli aircraft. At least seven were killed, including the wife of the mayor, a Christian woman who was decapitated by a missile that hit her car.

In west Beirut yesterday, the Israeli air force destroyed eight apartment blocks in which six families were living. Twelve civilians were killed in southern Lebanon, including a mother, her children and their housemaid.

An Israeli was killed by Hizballoh's continued Katyusha fire across the border. The guerrilla army - "terrorists" to the Israelis and Americans but increasingly heroes across the Muslim world - have many dead to avenge, although their leadership seems less interested in exacting an eye for an eye and far more eager to strike at Israel's army.

At this fatal juncture in Middle East history - and no one should underestimate this moment's importance in the region - the Israeli army appears as impotent to protect its country as the Hizbollah clearly is to protect Lebanon.

But if the ceasefire collapses, as seems certain, neither the Israelis nor the Americans appear to have any plans to escape the consequences. The US saw this war as an opportunity to humble Hizbollah's Iranian and Syrian sponsors but already it seems as if the tables have been turned. The Israeli military appears to be efficient at destroying bridges, power stations, gas stations and apartment blocks - but signally inefficient in crushing the "terrorist" army they swore to liquidate.

"The Lebanese government is our address for every problem or violation of the [ceasefire] agreement," Israel's Prime Minister, Ehud Olmert, said yesterday, as if realising the truce would not hold.

And that, of course, provides yet another excuse for Israel to attack the civilian infrastructure of Lebanon.

Far more worrying, however, are the vague terms of the UN Security Council's resolution on the multinational force supposed to occupy land between the Israeli border and the Litani river.

For if the Israelis and the Hizbollah are at war across the south over the coming weeks, what country will dare send its troops into the jungle that southern Lebanon will have become?

Tragically, and fatally for all involved, the real Lebanon war does indeed begin today.