SkyDekker 1,465 #26 August 15, 2006 QuoteWho do you really think would allow you the human rights you expect ? The US? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #27 August 15, 2006 >I think Amozon is more correct than wrong on the Hez use >of "shields" and Iranians and that is tainting the civilian death toll. Some of the Israelis killed were killed because they were living near an Israeli military base, and a rocket struck nearby. So the Israelis are "using civilians as shields" as well. (If you define putting military assets near civilians as "using them as shields.") Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trent 0 #28 August 15, 2006 Quoteot quite sure what theory you are talking about. I reread my post a half dozen times and I am sure there was no theory proposed in it.... The comment about not hearing much about the initial reason the hostilities began almost sounded like some of the people that view that incident as an overplayed excuse or something that didn't happen at all. Apologies if you're not from that camp.Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #29 August 15, 2006 QuoteQuoteI'm not really sure how or even if I should respond. I could repost links of pics and reports on Israel's human rights atrocities and Geneva convention violations but I'm pretty sure you're not interested. Amazon has provided nothing but un-referenced pro-Israel/Anti Hizbollah rantings and you consider those passionate opinions as "pretty clued up or full of knowledge"? You gotta ask yourself this question.. If there was peace in the region by some miracle.... would you rather live in Israel or in a Hezbollah controlled Lebanon?? Or in a Hamas run Palestine?? Who do you really think would allow you the human rights you expect ? LOL that statement is so ignorant. So if anyone doesn’t agree with YOUR WAY OF LIFE there the enemy. Why do you think people are willing to kill them selves to take back their land from Israeli? I have a feeling they want there way of life respected as you would want your respected. Stop viewing the world as the United States. Different cultures difference people just because they are different doesn’t mean they should not have the right to exist. Just because you wouldn’t want to live there doesn’t mean no one wants to.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #30 August 15, 2006 QuoteStop viewing the world as the United States. Different cultures difference people just because they are different doesn’t mean they should not have the right to exist. Just because you wouldn’t want to live there doesn’t mean no one wants to. Hey I am still trying to figure out how to wear a scarf in freefall next time I come to visit Jumptown.. so I do not offend you and have you call me a whore.... as you have called women in this country here on DIZZY DOT COM.. SEVERAL TIMES. You can have your 7th century third world shitholes to live in if you like.. but PLEASE be aware I will fight you tooth and nail if you expect me to live in one too Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #31 August 15, 2006 I guess that’s where the ignorance comes from. Just you’re post alone. Sad to see when you run out of facts you start typing with out thought maybe that has always been the way who knows. How about this I won’t force my way of life on you as long as you don’t think you should be allowed to force your views on others. Doesn’t that sound like a good thing? As for calling all woman whores you seem have miss the point as Michelle did. In the cultures we were discussing. Like Iran if you dress the way woman often do in the United States you will be view as a whore. Not because the Men say so but because many of the woman think so as well. Different culture. It is so sad that so many view the world in their narrow view. People are entitled to there culture WHO THE FUCK is anyone to tell others there culture is wrong. Now feel free to call me a terrorist, towle head, trator or what ever the ignorant wish to call me. I am used to it. When people run out of facts and what they view as to be truth is proven to be false they either are smart and learn and move on or they keep on holding on to there false beliefs.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hairyjuan 0 #32 August 15, 2006 acouple of thoughts, not necessarily my opinionwe are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively wishers never choose, choosers never wish Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #33 August 15, 2006 Bill, No, I was actually refering to manuvering of troops (for lack of a PC term, to me they are Terrorists) by Hez into civilian homes. I have not seen where the Isreali Army has done that, passed through yes, but not camped in civilian homes on thier side of the border. The positioning of troops in established military intalations and the damage from missed munitions is colateral damage, unfortunatly. I guess to answer you last question I would have to know whe nthe military post was built and the civilian houses, then why where they built there?An Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #34 August 15, 2006 Quote You gotta ask yourself this question.. If there was peace in the region by some miracle.... would you rather live in Israel or in a Hezbollah controlled Lebanon?? Or in a Hamas run Palestine?? Who do you really think would allow you the human rights you expect ? No I don't have to ask myself that question? That's a dangerous question. You're basically asking me to elevate one group of people over the other even if it's on some minor subconcious level. And by doing so I would be marginalizing the lives of second group. And that's what I think we're seeing here. People are willing to turn a blind eye to the crimes committed by "their side" and are far too willing to transfer the blame, even in extreme circumstances, to the marginalized party. I won't do it. War crimes are war crimes and dead innocent people are dead innocent people. Allowing yourself to stoop to the level where crimes are acceptable in this conflict simply because the "good guys" did it is just as reprehensible as allowing yourself to let the US torture it's prisoners. Wrong is wrong and anything else is a double standard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pop 0 #35 August 15, 2006 QuoteSo if anyone doesn’t agree with YOUR WAY OF LIFE there the enemy. So if Bush doesnt accept Allah, as the Iranian president asked him to do, then Bush is the enemy!!! Wait....Bush IS the enemy (in part becasue he is Christian, and not a Muslim). I find that this world war going on today is about protecting yourself for extemest crazies for one side, and about spreading the word of Allah, God willing, for the other side (though I think the other side uses god as an excuse to promote self agenda)7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #36 August 15, 2006 Placing your troops among the populace makes you liable for the resulting action taken by your enemy. This is true for both sides, no matter the war debated.An Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #37 August 15, 2006 I guess that we must hide behind civilians in London too. After all, there are troops at Buck' House, The Tower, Whitehall (The MoD), Horse Guards Parade & Barracks etc...... etc..... etc..... (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #38 August 15, 2006 Nice cop out.... the reality is I certainly trust the Israelis to treat ANYONE in their country far better that the militia controlled states that surround them do. They have to pander to their fundamentalist factions or be shot for being a traitor.... it happens all too frequently... Jordan.... they try to have a secular society... and have a pretty good handle on allowing their citizens the freedom they desire....and that pisses off the extremeists like Zarqarwi... Its happening in Egypt as well.. BUT there the Government has learned to reign in the extremeists.( aftger Sadat was murdered).. hence they have more of a police state... BUT that has been brought about by all the bombings and killings by the fundies. Most of the countries of the ME marginalize segments of their populations on a daily basis..I think Israel does far less of that.... as one poster has pointed out over and over..I think life for an Arab Israeli is far better than if he was in ANY of the surrounding countires. They are the ones who saw the reality back years ago.. and stayed and worked within the system. Some of them even fought AS PART of the force that created Israel. The ones who did not stay home to build a country.. who hated Jews. and joined the forces trying to destroy Israel.. left and still are living in shitholes 60 years later. The IslamoFascist fundies LOVE to use those people.. promising them a better life in Paradise.. all you have to do is go kill a few Jews for Allah... and the dumb asses buy into it with the little head....instead of the big head....One virgin in this lifetime is not enough for them.. they need to go for the BIG PAYOUT from Allah of 72. Anyone who does not follow the mullahs.... well so much for rights. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pop 0 #39 August 15, 2006 Quote. left and still are living in shitholes 60 years later. I think this is the fundamental problem for these people. It's sad actually. You see it happening in our own back yard as well. People living in poverty with no hopes of getting out of it become violent, and blame others for their own problem. (think Germany and Hitler...think Compton California...etc) The Jews in Israel, and the Americans in US are a simple scapegoart, due to the fact that we have a middle class that has the opportunity to become something and get out of poverty. The Israeli and American governments have built this into our systems, where as people living in these prehistoric middle east countries do not have opportunity. Of course they are angry and violent...but that's not excuse. We must protect ourselves!7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pop 0 #40 August 15, 2006 QuoteThe IslamoFascist fundies LOVE to use those people.. promising them a better life in Paradise.. all you have to do is go kill a few Jews for Allah.. How often do you hear that a suicide bomber came from a rich family?7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #41 August 15, 2006 Quote So if Bush doesnt accept Allah, as the Iranian president asked him to do, then Bush is the enemy!!! Wait....Bush IS the enemy (in part becasue he is Christian, and not a Muslim). One I am not the Iranian president. Two in the letter he wroth to the GW he stated that he believes in Jesus as well. Do you have anywhere will he used those words that “GW is the enemy because he does not believe in Allah”? Or is that another case of diarrhea of the mouth or fingers in this case. The interview I saw two nights ago it seemed the Iranian president who I have called in sane on here many times made some good points. He wants diplomacy not the bulling we see done daily.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #42 August 15, 2006 QuoteHow often do you hear that a suicide bomber came from a rich family? Or one of the Ayatollahs.. or Mullahs.. or leaders of Hamas.. Hezbollah etc... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pop 0 #43 August 15, 2006 QuoteOr is that another case of diarrhea of the mouth or fingers in this case. Yes Darius, that is exactly what that is, God Willing.7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #44 August 15, 2006 QuoteQuoteThe IslamoFascist fundies LOVE to use those people.. promising them a better life in Paradise.. all you have to do is go kill a few Jews for Allah.. How often do you hear that a suicide bomber came from a rich family? Wow you are full of misstatements today I have to say I am enjoying this. Research has proven most suicide bombers are from middle class families who are educated so try again. I bet if they didn’t see there families get bullied and killed daily they wouldn’t want to kill anyone including them selves.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #45 August 15, 2006 QuoteQuoteOr is that another case of diarrhea of the mouth or fingers in this case. Yes Darius, that is exactly what that is, God Willing. prove me wrong your the one who made that statment right? so where did you see it? did you just think it up? Felt like I need to add this. I am not trying to pick on you POP it’s just everyday I hear people say shit that has no facts behind it. It has become so easy for people to just accept any violent ignorant shit they hear as long as it is Muslim who is said to have made that statment.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pop 0 #46 August 15, 2006 QuoteDo you have anywhere will he used those words that “GW is the enemy because he does not believe in Allah”? Or is that another case of diarrhea of the mouth or fingers in this case. The letter kept asking GW to accept Allah into his heart. If the Iranian president did his homework, he would know US seprates church and state. Bush has been known to have a bit of a problem in separting hte two (he also cant speak very well), but the American people recongize that in a world of diversity reuiqres this seapration. This is another proof that much of middle east is still living in prehistoric times. How do you deal with people taht haven't caught up quite yet withwhats going around them, and are out there killing in the name of a peaceful God7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #47 August 15, 2006 middle class != rich Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pop 0 #48 August 15, 2006 QuoteI am not trying to pick on you POP it’s just ... Darius, I dont take anything personally on here. I appreciate your point of view. Without it we couldnt disagree, and thus have a conversation7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pop 0 #49 August 15, 2006 QuoteResearch has proven most suicide bombers are from middle class families Would you blow yourself up? If yes, why? If no, why?7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #50 August 15, 2006 Quote Open your eyes. Israel is not this democratic country who respects their neighbors. well, why the fuck would they? I know you trout out some weird cultural concepts, but I don't respect neighbors with a stated policy of ending my existence. And if I were the big stick on the block, as Israel is, I certainly wouldn't accept crap like kidnappings from shitholes like Lebanon. In the real world, the little guys behave or get stomped. Whining about it is pointless. Pretending the current fighting is one sided is childish. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
