Will you STFU now?

[Darius11 12]

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middle class != rich

He said poor

does middle class != poor

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[matthewcline 0]

If that was for my post, I should have made the statement clearer. I meant manuevering troops through the populace.

But we all know that the established bases are on target lists long before the first rocket is fired or bomb is strapped to a Terrorists body. If I buy a house next to a military base I can not be to suprised if an errant missile or bomb hits it.

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[billvon 2,998]

>but the American people recongize that in a world of diversity
>reuiqres this seapration.

?? Bush just signed a bill that takes ownership of, and federally funds, a massive cross on the top of a hill here, put up years ago for easter services. What separation are you talking about? Heck, he admits that God wanted him to be president; he made Jesus Day a state-recognized holiday in Texas. A few quotes from GWB:

"I feel like God wants me to run for President. I can't explain it, but I sense my country is going to need me. Something is going to happen... I know it won't be easy on me or my family, but God wants me to do it."

"God told me to strike at al Qaeda and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If you help me I will act, and if not, the elections will come and I will have to focus on them."

>This is another proof that much of middle east is still living in prehistoric times.

People who can't separate religion and government "live in prehistoric times?" The US doesn't look that prehistoric to me.

[Darius11 12]

What if the majority of people want to live under religious rule and have a religious state?

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[shropshire 0]

It wasn't... it was a general observation.... we ALL do it. It's not done for perceived human shielding, it's mostly historical or coincidence.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Darius11 12]

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Research has proven most suicide bombers are from middle class families

Would you blow yourself up? If yes, why? If no, why?

Blowing your self up is just another way to die for a cause.

So yes I would die for a cause that I strongly believe in. For me that would be if someone was going to kill my family, friends, or hurt the people I love. If I could kill who was planing or doing harm to the ones I love by sacrificing my own life I would. I sure that feeling would get even stronger if I was a father.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[idrankwhat 0]

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Nice cop out.... the reality is I certainly trust the Israelis to treat ANYONE in their country far better that the militia controlled states that surround them do......

Tell that to the Christians that Israel killed in the Bekaa valley a couple of days ago. (what did he say? Christians living in Lebanon?) I didn't cop out of anything. You may feel like you can justify killing innocent people because you "trust" Israel. I don't trust Israel because of what they have done just as I don't trust Muslim extremists because of what they have done. In my eyes there's no difference. I will not play your game of "pick your favorite terrorist and kill all the rest".

[GTAVercetti 0]

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but the American people recongize that in a world of diversity reuiqres this seapration.

Seriously? That is quite the blanket statement to make. There are MANY Americans who would love to see religion fused directly into the government.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[lawrocket 3]

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With news and more news that this war(the Israeli & Lebanon) was planned a year ago, and the Israeli's just wanted a reason to attack.

Too bad Hezbollah gave them one. Guilt lies on both sides.

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Not to mention what side of the border the soldiers were at the time of their capture is a huge question.

If it were conclusively proven that the israeli soldiers were on their side, would your mind change? If so, you are jumping to conclusions. If not, then your mind is made up. Either way, you've hurt yourself with that question.

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The people who once again blamed the Muslims will you STFU now?

Nope. See my first comment. WTF is Hezbollah doing going into Israel to kidnap soldiers? I can guarantee you, it wasn't for a picnic. Furthermore, I don't blame "the Muslims." It's like blaming whites for the actions of the KKK. I blame SOME Muslims. But not "Muslims."

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Or will you keep on searching and searching for reasons to make yourselves feel right?

Neither. I don't need to feel right or wrong. I'll tell you what I think - Hez started this one.

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It has become way to common for people to decide the result and then do a research to find the facts that match with the result they have already decided on. They ignore the facts that would prove them wrong.

- this is true no matter what side you are on. Odds are, you do it, too. So do I.

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say the same to the people who supported the Iraq war no WMD? Will STFU now? No flowers and happy people greeting the troops? How about now? When will it be enough? How much more bad news and disappointments do you need to see before you will admit you were wrong? Will it ever happen?

Many have. Some will never do admit it..

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What is it with Ignorance?

I dunno. I'm not familiar with it.

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Why is it some people just don’t get even when the facts hit them directly in the face they still don’t see it?

Because people look at things from different angles. A tire, viewed head-on, is in the general shape of a rectangle. The person looking head-on might lack the knowledge too see that it is a wheel. The person viewing the wheel from the side may conclude the person who sees a rectangle is an idiot!

The point is, neither are wrong. Fact - that thing looks like a rectangle in coronal and transvers planes. Fact - the thing looks like a circle in the sagittal plane. Fact - it's a wheel. Conclusion - depending on the viewpoint, each is a reasonable conclusion. Only by seeing things from all sides can one form a logical conclusion. And it may still be wrong.

See, Darius, I'm not the biggest fan of Israel. I'm also not the biggest fan of the Muslim theocracies like Iran. Hell, I'm not even the biggest fan of the US Government.

I just need to look at things this way - if the Muslims were to lay down their arms and say, "WE desire peace and harmony with the Jews and Israel," would the Israelis lay waste to them. Based on my take on past history, I'd say "No." On the other hand, if the Israelis were to lay down their arms and say, "We desire peace and harmony with the Muslims" would Israel last longer than a few days? My conclusion is that they would not.

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Has anyone who was supporting Israel and there right to start this war that destroyed a nation changed there mind now with news that this war was planned a year ago?

Israel has stated that they want to disarm Hezbollah to ensure greater security for the israeli citizens. Nothing about destroying Lebanon. Just destroying Hezbollah. On the other side, you've got a Hezbollah envoy quoted as saying, "We are going to make Israel not safe for Israelis. There will be no place they are safe...We will expand attacks... The people who came to Israel, (they) moved there to live, not to die. If we continue to attack, they will leave." Quoted in the Washington Post, July 24, 2006.

Israel left South Lebanon in 2000, which was one of Hezbollah's goals. Hezbollah was formed after Israel invaded Lebanon, after all. So, there's been that mess smoldering for about 25 years now. Also, Israel has a bit of a habit of assassinating Hezbollah leaders.

There's plenty of blame to go around. Hezbollah formed with what was a seemingly righteous goal. What did they become when Israel left Lebanon? Another group of people looking for a piece of the power pie.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[idrankwhat 0]

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?? Bush just signed a bill that takes ownership of, and federally funds, a massive cross on the top of a hill here, put up years ago for easter services. What separation are you talking about? Heck, he admits that God wanted him to be president; he made Jesus Day a state-recognized holiday in Texas. A few quotes from GWB:

"I feel like God wants me to run for President. I can't explain it, but I sense my country is going to need me. Something is going to happen... I know it won't be easy on me or my family, but God wants me to do it."

Translated: GOD WILLS IT!!!!

"God told me to strike at al Qaeda and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If you help me I will act, and if not, the elections will come and I will have to focus on them."


Translation: GOD WILLED IT!!!
You also forgot his "Crusade against terrorism" comment. That's a keeper.

[pop 0]

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>but the American people recongize that in a world of diversity
>reuiqres this seapration.

?? Bush just signed a bill that takes ownership of, and federally funds, a massive cross on the top of a hill here, put up years ago for easter services. What separation are you talking about? Heck, he admits that God wanted him to be president; he made Jesus Day a state-recognized holiday in Texas. A few quotes from GWB:

"I feel like God wants me to run for President. I can't explain it, but I sense my country is going to need me. Something is going to happen... I know it won't be easy on me or my family, but God wants me to do it."

"God told me to strike at al Qaeda and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If you help me I will act, and if not, the elections will come and I will have to focus on them."

>This is another proof that much of middle east is still living in prehistoric times.

People who can't separate religion and government "live in prehistoric times?" The US doesn't look that prehistoric to me.

I am not a Bush supporter. I am not sure who he thinks he is to rewrite how our government funcitons. We have a clear separation of church and state, and I Bush is very guilty of overstepping that boundary

7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer

[pop 0]

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If I could kill who was planing or doing harm to the ones I love by sacrificing my own life I would.

What did the innocent people in the coffe shops an on buses do to threaten their families? Would you blow yourself up on a bus?

7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer

[skydyvr 0]

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Some of the Israelis killed were killed because they were living near an Israeli military base, and a rocket struck nearby. So the Israelis are "using civilians as shields" as well. (If you define putting military assets near civilians as "using them as shields.")

ZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzz..........

. . =(_8^(1)

[Darius11 12]

lawrocket the problem that most people seem to have is they stop the "what if" scenarios when it is convenient.


What if Israel would not have taken Palestinians land? That’s the first what if.

What if Israel did not treat the people with cruelty? What if they did not bulldoze houses take property and murder people would they be hated?

I don’t think so.

You don’t fuck with my home, land, family and friends why would I hate you. But you do fuck with it then I will fuck with you.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[beowulf 1]

and the cycle continues. So it will never end due to people just like you.

[wmw999 2,452]

Methinks it's a lot easier to condemn what's going on from over here in the US, than from the Middle East. And it's a lot easier to condemn those feelings if no one you know is the innocent victim of that kind of random violence.

We're not necessarily more evolved, but we sure are safer in general.

We laud the soldiers who fight, and who go to great lengths to bring their fallen brethren home, even at the cost of other enemy lives. That's because of loyalty to family, be it inherited, or chosen (which the military is for many).

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[beowulf 1]

I am not condemning their feelings. What I do condemn is their actions. Their actions are not resulting in any gains toward their goals, despite their belief that they are. They(Hezbollah) can not see past their hatred to find another course of action that would move them towards there goals. This war that Hezbollah has clearly started has done nothing but destroy parts of Lebanon. Even if they do get some of their people back from Israel how could that be worth the damage done to the Lebanese economy?

[billvon 2,998]

>What if they did not bulldoze houses take property and
>murder people would they be hated?

For a while, yes; they'll remember the last bulldozing. And during that time someone will blow themselves up in a bus station and kill a bunch of Israelis - who will then use that as an excuse to blow up some Lebanese. Which will lead to more violence.

>But you do fuck with it then I will fuck with you.

And when you fuck with them, they will fuck with you right back. And it will never end.

[pop 0]

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lawrocket the problem that most people seem to have is they stop the "what if" scenarios when it is convenient.


What if Israel would not have taken Palestinians land? That’s the first what if.

What if Israel did not treat the people with cruelty? What if they did not bulldoze houses take property and murder people would they be hated?

I don’t think so.

You don’t fuck with my home, land, family and friends why would I hate you. But you do fuck with it then I will fuck with you.

First of all Palestine, which isnot an official country, belonged to Britain who chose to give it to Israel.

Can oyu imagine if Mexico tried to take Texas back? Hmmm....Arabs picked fights with Israel when Israel first became a country, and when the land was conquered (which often happens during war), the Arabs didnt like it.

7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer

[lawrocket 3]

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What if Israel would not have taken Palestinians land? That’s the first what if.

No, I think you'd have to go back to the 1880's. What if all of those Arab landholders hadn't sold land in Israel to Jewish migrant followers of Moses Hess? That's actually when the tensions started. Yes, the Jews didn't "take" Palestinian land. They "bought" it. I didn't take my house - I bought it from the prior owners.

We see this kind of thing happen in neighborhoods a lot - especially ghettos. Example? In parts of LA, plenty of neighborhoods were dominated by poor blacks. Then, the poor Latinos started moving into the hood, and eventually the blacks were outnumbered. Mutual mistrust and resent led them to start capping each other. It's been that way for 20 years and continues. Here's an article about it - http://www.dailybreeze.com/news/articles/3561512.html

So we see the same thing in the Middle East, don't we?

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What if Israel would not have taken Palestinians land? That’s the first what if.

Or what about 1920, when there were riots between the Palestinians and Jews back when the Brits controlled what is now Israel? Back then, anti-Zionist vitriol was pretty high, culminating in 1929, when about 130 Jews were killed by Arabs/Palestinians (another couple of hundred were wounded) and about the same number of Arabs were killed and wounded by the British Army trying to stop them.

How's that for a starting point? It's not like there were no Jews in present-day Israel prior to 1948. There'd been plenty of them starting in the 1880's. What ifs are plenty. Ar eyou willing to go back that far?

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What if Israel did not treat the people with cruelty?

What if the Palenstinians had been cool to the Jews when they moved in, instead of resenting their presence? They had cause to resent the British colonial rule and the Ottomans back then, but why did they hate the Jews so dang much? What did the Jews do that was so bad except move in?

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What if they did not bulldoze houses take property and murder people would they be hated?

Had the Palestinians/Arabs not killed and destroyed so much back in the earlier 1900's, would the Jews be nicer to them now?

Am I suggesting that no Jew was a dick to any Palestinian back then? No. I highly doubt that the Jews were particularly culturally sensitive - and vice versa.

What if? What if? What if? It goes deeper than you are suggesting, Darius. That's my point. Both israel and the Palestinians are wrong for what they've been doing. BOTH have handled this inappropriately.

And I think that the Jews WOULD still be hated, because they didn't bulldoze houses, treat Palestinians with cruelty, take property or murder people 100 years ago. And the Palestinians hated them. History proves your point to be a little bit off.

In fact, everybody, it seems, has hated the Jews at one point or another.

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You don’t fuck with my home, land, family and friends why would I hate you. But you do fuck with it then I will fuck with you.

I understand that. And nobody better be ficking with my home, land, family, etc., or I will fuck them up. But if I were to sell my home, and my neighbors sold their homes, and the new buyers turned the neighborhood to shit, I'd have to say, "Fuck em! It's theirs now."

I see your point. Do you see mine?

My thought it that the genesis of this whole freaking situation is the result of petty ancestral quarrels and resentments that snowballed and has continued to snowball for for the last 120 years...

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Royd 0]

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It is so sad that so many view the world in their narrow view. People are entitled to there culture WHO THE FUCK is anyone to tell others there culture is wrong.

BINGO. If the radical Muslims would stay in their own sandbox, and kill their next door neighbor who doesn't agree with them, the whole world would be a better place to live in.

[Royd 0]

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I think this is the fundamental problem for these people. It's sad actually. You see it happening in our own back yard as well. People living in poverty with no hopes of getting out of it become violent, and blame others for their own problem. (think Germany and Hitler...think Compton California...etc) The Jews in Israel, and the Americans in US are a simple scapegoart, due to the fact that we have a middle class that has the opportunity to become something and get out of poverty. The Israeli and American governments have built this into our systems, where as people living in these prehistoric middle east countries do not have opportunity. Of course they are angry and violent...but that's not excuse. We must protect ourselves!

The Jews have taken a good for nothing piece of land and turned it into a functioning society. No matter how much money you give someone, unless they are willing to step up to the plate, it's useless.

If the Arab brethren actually cared about each other and the welfare of the race, there's enough money there to give everyone a leg up. The fact is they would rather kill a Jew than drill a water well, and plant a garden.

[pop 0]

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I think this is the fundamental problem for these people. It's sad actually. You see it happening in our own back yard as well. People living in poverty with no hopes of getting out of it become violent, and blame others for their own problem. (think Germany and Hitler...think Compton California...etc) The Jews in Israel, and the Americans in US are a simple scapegoart, due to the fact that we have a middle class that has the opportunity to become something and get out of poverty. The Israeli and American governments have built this into our systems, where as people living in these prehistoric middle east countries do not have opportunity. Of course they are angry and violent...but that's not excuse. We must protect ourselves!

The Jews have taken a good for nothing piece of land and turned it into a functioning society. No matter how much money you give someone, unless they are willing to step up to the plate, it's useless.

If the Arab brethren actually cared about each other and the welfare of the race, there's enough money there to give everyone a leg up. The fact is they would rather kill a Jew than drill a water well, and plant a garden.

I AGREE 100%. I have made this argumanet before.

7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer

[BRIDGEWOOD 0]

The U.S. and Isreal should consider the middle east a lost cause. The jews should come live with us here in America and give the palestinians their land back. Pull our troops out of there and let the Muslims kill each other like so many gang members. Basicaly, it's like L.A. in the middle east. People killing each other for minor differences in beliefs or for being in the wrong side of town with the wrong last name. It's a good day to be agnostic....

[billvon 2,998]

>Basicaly, it's like L.A. in the middle east.

It's like LA with Orange County run by the Taliban and supported militarily by China. Everything will be fine if all the LA citizens simply live in peace with them . . .