billvon 3,070 #126 August 18, 2006 >I don't have a degree and I am doing quite well thank you and I >do not believe I am the exception. That's great. But that's not what you said. You said that people who think they ARE better off with a degree are arrogant. I am better off with a degree. If you think that makes me arrogant, so be it. I'd rather be seen that way than have the jobs I had before I got my degree. >By the way, very misleading nutty examples if you ask me Yep. I can see how you would see real-world examples that way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #127 August 18, 2006 QuoteOnce again. Show me your statistics that, ON THE WHOLE, the average citizen is not going to make more money with a degree. I don't care what you "think" (read: what you feel to be true). Just because it is true for you and people you know, it is certainly not indicative of how it is for everyone. I don't care that you don't care"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #128 August 18, 2006 That's great. But that's not what you said. You said that people who think they ARE better off with a degree are arrogant. Quote Ok, you are right here. There are many that way not all. But my point was more to the context of this thread, education, and the relationship to politics and voters. I believe in the rural areas there may be fewer degreed individuals but they are very smart and a higher % are informed about the issues of the day. As opposed to larger cities where there may be more degreed people (per capita) but do not have a clue about the issues. No facts to support just obervations."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GTAVercetti 0 #129 August 18, 2006 Well that is fine. At least you proved your assertion and all. Great debate. Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 23 #130 August 18, 2006 QuoteWell that is fine. At least you proved your theory and all."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,106 #131 August 18, 2006 QuoteQuote Again, wtf was your point of quoting Newton? I'm sure you can figure it out if you try.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PLFXpert 0 #132 August 18, 2006 I love Fig Newtons.Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,106 #133 August 18, 2006 QuoteIf education counts so little (in your eyes) I wonder why parents are spending $120,000 + to send their kids to college these days. Quote Same reason we do a lot of things. We have been sold a bill of goods that a 4 year college education is needed to get ahead. Fortunatley that is now starting to change in some areas/fields Now that depends on the field you want to get into in some cases. I guess what I find so interesting is the arogance of some of those that think they are better and better off with a degree. US Census Bureau says you're wrong. (No surprise there).... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkyDekker 1,465 #134 August 18, 2006 QuoteUS Census Bureau says you're wrong. yeah, but they are full of educated people and obviously biased. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Shotgun 1 #135 August 18, 2006 This has nothing to do with this thread, but I just realized that I have the perfect girlfriend for you. Well, except that she lives in Cali. Hmm, but I could ship her to you for the right price. Of course, you may not want her since she has no degree and can't answer any of the questions from that poll... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GTAVercetti 0 #136 August 18, 2006 ooo, I like dark curly hair too. Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ChasingBlueSky 0 #137 August 18, 2006 Quote When I was in grade school we called these kind of facts "general knowledge", and general knowledge was considered important I hold this general knowledge, however the majority has done nothing for me. Well, it has helped me spur a few arguments on this board and in other places. But since I left the media, none of it has had an impact in my life. However this information has led to many frustrated nights knowing that despite my best efforts I've influenced very little on the environment that pushes back on me. Sometimes I wonder if ignorance really is bliss._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites winsor 236 #138 August 18, 2006 QuoteIf education counts so little (in your eyes) I wonder why parents are spending $120,000 + to send their kids to college these days. Quote Same reason we do a lot of things. We have been sold a bill of goods that a 4 year college education is needed to get ahead. Fortunately that is now starting to change in some areas/fields Now that depends on the field you want to get into in some cases. I guess what I find so interesting is the arrogance of some of those that think they are better and better off with a degree. Well, I think I am better off with a degree. Then again, I was arrogant a long time before I got a degree. If you think you can do what I do for a living without the knowledge conferred in the 9 years I spent in College, good luck (hint - I am not a Liberal Arts major...). Blue skies, Winsor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites winsor 236 #139 August 18, 2006 QuoteThat's great. But that's not what you said. You said that people who think they ARE better off with a degree are arrogant. Quote Ok, you are right here. There are many that way not all. But my point was more to the context of this thread, education, and the relationship to politics and voters. I believe in the rural areas there may be fewer degreed individuals but they are very smart and a higher % are informed about the issues of the day. As opposed to larger cities where there may be more degreed people (per capita) but do not have a clue about the issues. No facts to support just obervations. Having lived in a variety of rural areas, I can attest to the fact that the most successful farmers I know have very extensive formal education. Agribusiness involves a solid background in Botany, Chemistry, Meteorology, Logistics, Economics and Business. The farmers who are not dirt-poor can give you the economic breakdown of using various crops, seed, tilling techniques, pesticides, herbicides and fertilizers. They can tell you the most effective means of hedging their investments against either crop failure or bumper crops with depressed prices. I guarantee they did not pick up these skills by pondering these concepts while working their fields; they typically have degrees from focused programs at accredited universities. Blue skies, Winsor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #140 August 18, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuote Again, wtf was your point of quoting Newton? I'm sure you can figure it out if you try. yep, wrote it off as irony tower BS from the get go. The elite have always looked down on the masses. It's pretty close to a universal truth of human existence. I was just giving you a chance to come up with a better story. Things can't be that bad in the US - despite placing 'last' is all these student tests and having no cultural knowledge at all, the country is still one of if not the most productive in the world. And thanks to the open access, people are capable of earning their success - if cultural trivia gets them there, they can study and make use of it. Others succeed with less education and more hard work. Me - somewhere in between the extremes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dorbie 0 #141 August 20, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Again, wtf was your point of quoting Newton? I'm sure you can figure it out if you try. yep, wrote it off as irony tower BS from the get go. The elite have always looked down on the masses. It's pretty close to a universal truth of human existence. I was just giving you a chance to come up with a better story. Things can't be that bad in the US - despite placing 'last' is all these student tests and having no cultural knowledge at all, the country is still one of if not the most productive in the world. And thanks to the open access, people are capable of earning their success - if cultural trivia gets them there, they can study and make use of it. Others succeed with less education and more hard work. Me - somewhere in between the extremes. His point was simple, there's always been a wide variation of knowledge and ability, and you shouldn't expect greatness to emerge from a poll of the masses. If you don't appreciate the way he said it then it's your loss. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andy9o8 2 #142 August 21, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuote Again, wtf was your point of quoting Newton? I'm sure you can figure it out if you try. Lovely bedside manner you've got there, John. I take it Dale Carnegie isn't one of your favorite authors. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites champu 1 #143 August 21, 2006 QuoteI wonder why parents are spending $120,000 + to send their kids to college these days. They have a terrible understanding of how their state school system works? QuoteSame reason we do a lot of things. We have been sold a bill of goods that a 4 year college education is needed to get ahead. Fortunatley that is now starting to change in some areas/fields. Now that depends on the field you want to get into in some cases. This is true, but the offer for my current job actually included a requirement that I continue going to school to get my masters. QuoteI guess what I find so interesting is the arogance of some of those that think they are better and better off with a degree. I certainly don't think I'm a "better person" because I have a degree, but I can assure you I'm better off. I do, however, share your frustration when dealing with people that try and ride the name of the university they went to as far as possible, even though the particular program they went through was nothing special at that school. QuoteGiven the current degree of outsourcing... ...job designing things for a defense contractor. Ain't it grand when an engineer's best job security is in the form of ITAR regulations? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Nightingale 0 #144 August 21, 2006 QuoteQuoteI wonder why parents are spending $120,000 + to send their kids to college these days. They have a terrible understanding of how their state school system works? Or... They prefer the small class size of private universities, where the professors will actually know their kids' names, where all their classes will actually be taught by the professors and not TAs. Perhaps, the state universities in their state do not offer the major that their kid wants, and the private school does. Private schools don't care what state the kid is from. I went to a private university and don't regret the cost at all (and no, my parents didn't pay for it. I did). However, I took the time to apply for scholarships and grants, also. I wanted to study film. I had pretty much two choices if I wanted my education to have any kind of name-recognition, and those were Loyola Marymount or USC. Both private. I visited both, and picked the one I liked best, which also happened to be the cheaper of the two. I worked in the industry for a few years, and had been getting job offers while I was still working on my degree. I didn't have to chase down job offers. They came to me. I think the biggest difference between public and private schools here in California is size. My largest class ever as a college student had 24 people in it. My brother, who went to Cal State Fullerton, found that his smallest class had 100 people. I knew my teachers and was on a first name basis with most of them. I felt like my teachers knew me and really wanted me to succeed, while my brother's teachers didn't even know his name. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Nightingale 0 #145 August 21, 2006 Quote I guess what I find so interesting is the arogance of some of those that think they are better and better off with a degree. College opens doors for you and gives you options that you wouldn't have otherwise. It also gives 18 year olds, who don't know anything about the world or themselves, more exposure to different things. I had a friend who was sure he wanted to be an engineer and picked up a real-estate class as his business elective. He's now a hotel broker getting commission off multi-million dollar deals. Personally, I knew what I wanted and didn't change my major, but I took some electives that have had a big part in shaping who I am today. My law and politics class is a big reason why I'm in law school right now. My creative art elective is why I'm still looking to dance as exercise and stress relief, ten years after the class. My world history class taught me to love learning about other cultures, and even now, half the books in my bookcase are history books or historical fiction. My choral music classes gave me the confidence to be able to stand up in front of a large group and do something I'm good at. When you've faced a sold-out crowd at the hollywood bowl, public speaking and argument in law school really isn't a big deal. If I hadn't gone to college, I would never have known that I love history and dance, or that large crowds really aren't so scary. I would never have discovered that I enjoy legal argument, and I certainly wouldn't be in law school. At my last job (before I went to law school), I sat next to a guy who did the same job as I did. Exactly the same. But... I got paid about $15K more than he did because I was a college graduate and he wasn't, so they considered my skills and potential more valuable and paid me more. Was I better off? If I'd stayed there a few more years, my degree would've paid for itself easily. Education is a very personal journey, and I don't think I'm better than anyone else because I chose to go to college. I do, however, think I'm better off than I would be if I hadn't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites micro 0 #146 August 21, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Again, wtf was your point of quoting Newton? I'm sure you can figure it out if you try. Lovely bedside manner you've got there, John. I take it Dale Carnegie isn't one of your favorite authors. Kallend: "Dale WHO?" I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 23 #147 August 21, 2006 QuoteQuote I guess what I find so interesting is the arogance of some of those that think they are better and better off with a degree. College opens doors for you and gives you options that you wouldn't have otherwise. It also gives 18 year olds, who don't know anything about the world or themselves, more exposure to different things. I had a friend who was sure he wanted to be an engineer and picked up a real-estate class as his business elective. He's now a hotel broker getting commission off multi-million dollar deals. Personally, I knew what I wanted and didn't change my major, but I took some electives that have had a big part in shaping who I am today. My law and politics class is a big reason why I'm in law school right now. My creative art elective is why I'm still looking to dance as exercise and stress relief, ten years after the class. My world history class taught me to love learning about other cultures, and even now, half the books in my bookcase are history books or historical fiction. My choral music classes gave me the confidence to be able to stand up in front of a large group and do something I'm good at. When you've faced a sold-out crowd at the hollywood bowl, public speaking and argument in law school really isn't a big deal. If I hadn't gone to college, I would never have known that I love history and dance, or that large crowds really aren't so scary. I would never have discovered that I enjoy legal argument, and I certainly wouldn't be in law school. At my last job (before I went to law school), I sat next to a guy who did the same job as I did. Exactly the same. But... I got paid about $15K more than he did because I was a college graduate and he wasn't, so they considered my skills and potential more valuable and paid me more. Was I better off? If I'd stayed there a few more years, my degree would've paid for itself easily. Education is a very personal journey, and I don't think I'm better than anyone else because I chose to go to college. I do, however, think I'm better off than I would be if I hadn't. Nice ressonabe post and I do not agree with any of it. Please remember however that my post was in the context of education political issues and voters. It seems that if a certin chosen one does not get elected it was the uninformed uneducated masses that did the dirty deed. I get tired of that characterization"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,534 #148 August 21, 2006 a. let's cut to the chase. My impression is that you're talking about people complaining about GWB getting elected by the "uninformed uneducated masses." So don't generalize it to everyone. b. the vast majority of Nightingale's post has to do with its impact on her life. I'm not really sure how you can disagree with someone's perception of their own life. c. the vast majority of jobs that I've held had a college degree (or set number of hours) as a prerequisite. You could get around it, but the path was harder. Spud Webb was a 5'4" NBA star, so technically it's also possible for Vinny to be a basketball star if he's just determined enough. It's just that there are a lot more slots for the people who already have the desired qualifications, than the ones who make the hiring manager/whatever go through extra steps to make sure that they can do the job. And we're just talking about jobs here. I also consider my life to have been enriched by my degree (in a dreaded social science, no less). Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Nightingale 0 #149 August 21, 2006 Quote Nice ressonabe post and I do not agree with any of it. You didn't say why. Quote Please remember however that my post was in the context of education political issues and voters. It seems that if a certin chosen one does not get elected it was the uninformed uneducated masses that did the dirty deed. I get tired of that characterization I think, no matter who is elected, that most voters are not educated to the degree they ought to be about the issues, the candidates, our constitution, and our legal system. Many people vote along party lines because they don't understand the issues and don't research the candidates. I don't think it's got anything to do with college. Anybody can read their voter guide, go to their library and look up the candidates on the internet, and read their party's platform. College is too late to wait to educate kids about the way our government should work, what its role is, and what its role is not. Constitutional law should be a mandatory high school subject. In recent years, it seems as though we've been confusing the role of high schools and colleges. After high school, a person should have a working knowledge of math, science, English, history, and political science. College is supposed to be extra education, above and beyond the basics. Colleges shouldn't have to teach composition and grammar. That's high school's job. Colleges certainly shouldn't be teaching remedial math, basic chemistry, biology, or physics. They shouldn't have to teach that the US Constitution overrules the majority vote. A high school graduate should already know this stuff. College should be an extra, but recently, people have been looking at it as a necessity. Not everybody should go to college. Not everybody wants to go to college. They should be able to get along fine without that degree, but more and more, employers expect it and people without it are treated as second-class. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites micro 0 #150 August 21, 2006 Quotea. let's cut to the chase. My impression is that you're talking about people complaining about GWB getting elected by the "uninformed uneducated masses." So don't generalize it to everyone. b. the vast majority of Nightingale's post has to do with its impact on her life. I'm not really sure how you can disagree with someone's perception of their own life. c. the vast majority of jobs that I've held had a college degree (or set number of hours) as a prerequisite. You could get around it, but the path was harder. Spud Webb was a 5'4" NBA star, so technically it's also possible for Vinny to be a basketball star if he's just determined enough. It's just that there are a lot more slots for the people who already have the desired qualifications, than the ones who make the hiring manager/whatever go through extra steps to make sure that they can do the job. And we're just talking about jobs here. I also consider my life to have been enriched by my degree (in a dreaded social science, no less). Wendy W. yeah, i'd pay TOP DOLLAR to see that tequila monster throw down on Shaq-attack! I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next Page 6 of 7 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. 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GTAVercetti 0 #129 August 18, 2006 Well that is fine. At least you proved your assertion and all. Great debate. Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #130 August 18, 2006 QuoteWell that is fine. At least you proved your theory and all."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #131 August 18, 2006 QuoteQuote Again, wtf was your point of quoting Newton? I'm sure you can figure it out if you try.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PLFXpert 0 #132 August 18, 2006 I love Fig Newtons.Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,106 #133 August 18, 2006 QuoteIf education counts so little (in your eyes) I wonder why parents are spending $120,000 + to send their kids to college these days. Quote Same reason we do a lot of things. We have been sold a bill of goods that a 4 year college education is needed to get ahead. Fortunatley that is now starting to change in some areas/fields Now that depends on the field you want to get into in some cases. I guess what I find so interesting is the arogance of some of those that think they are better and better off with a degree. US Census Bureau says you're wrong. (No surprise there).... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkyDekker 1,465 #134 August 18, 2006 QuoteUS Census Bureau says you're wrong. yeah, but they are full of educated people and obviously biased. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Shotgun 1 #135 August 18, 2006 This has nothing to do with this thread, but I just realized that I have the perfect girlfriend for you. Well, except that she lives in Cali. Hmm, but I could ship her to you for the right price. Of course, you may not want her since she has no degree and can't answer any of the questions from that poll... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GTAVercetti 0 #136 August 18, 2006 ooo, I like dark curly hair too. Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ChasingBlueSky 0 #137 August 18, 2006 Quote When I was in grade school we called these kind of facts "general knowledge", and general knowledge was considered important I hold this general knowledge, however the majority has done nothing for me. Well, it has helped me spur a few arguments on this board and in other places. But since I left the media, none of it has had an impact in my life. However this information has led to many frustrated nights knowing that despite my best efforts I've influenced very little on the environment that pushes back on me. Sometimes I wonder if ignorance really is bliss._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites winsor 236 #138 August 18, 2006 QuoteIf education counts so little (in your eyes) I wonder why parents are spending $120,000 + to send their kids to college these days. Quote Same reason we do a lot of things. We have been sold a bill of goods that a 4 year college education is needed to get ahead. Fortunately that is now starting to change in some areas/fields Now that depends on the field you want to get into in some cases. I guess what I find so interesting is the arrogance of some of those that think they are better and better off with a degree. Well, I think I am better off with a degree. Then again, I was arrogant a long time before I got a degree. If you think you can do what I do for a living without the knowledge conferred in the 9 years I spent in College, good luck (hint - I am not a Liberal Arts major...). Blue skies, Winsor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites winsor 236 #139 August 18, 2006 QuoteThat's great. But that's not what you said. You said that people who think they ARE better off with a degree are arrogant. Quote Ok, you are right here. There are many that way not all. But my point was more to the context of this thread, education, and the relationship to politics and voters. I believe in the rural areas there may be fewer degreed individuals but they are very smart and a higher % are informed about the issues of the day. As opposed to larger cities where there may be more degreed people (per capita) but do not have a clue about the issues. No facts to support just obervations. Having lived in a variety of rural areas, I can attest to the fact that the most successful farmers I know have very extensive formal education. Agribusiness involves a solid background in Botany, Chemistry, Meteorology, Logistics, Economics and Business. The farmers who are not dirt-poor can give you the economic breakdown of using various crops, seed, tilling techniques, pesticides, herbicides and fertilizers. They can tell you the most effective means of hedging their investments against either crop failure or bumper crops with depressed prices. I guarantee they did not pick up these skills by pondering these concepts while working their fields; they typically have degrees from focused programs at accredited universities. Blue skies, Winsor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #140 August 18, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuote Again, wtf was your point of quoting Newton? I'm sure you can figure it out if you try. yep, wrote it off as irony tower BS from the get go. The elite have always looked down on the masses. It's pretty close to a universal truth of human existence. I was just giving you a chance to come up with a better story. Things can't be that bad in the US - despite placing 'last' is all these student tests and having no cultural knowledge at all, the country is still one of if not the most productive in the world. And thanks to the open access, people are capable of earning their success - if cultural trivia gets them there, they can study and make use of it. Others succeed with less education and more hard work. Me - somewhere in between the extremes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dorbie 0 #141 August 20, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Again, wtf was your point of quoting Newton? I'm sure you can figure it out if you try. yep, wrote it off as irony tower BS from the get go. The elite have always looked down on the masses. It's pretty close to a universal truth of human existence. I was just giving you a chance to come up with a better story. Things can't be that bad in the US - despite placing 'last' is all these student tests and having no cultural knowledge at all, the country is still one of if not the most productive in the world. And thanks to the open access, people are capable of earning their success - if cultural trivia gets them there, they can study and make use of it. Others succeed with less education and more hard work. Me - somewhere in between the extremes. His point was simple, there's always been a wide variation of knowledge and ability, and you shouldn't expect greatness to emerge from a poll of the masses. If you don't appreciate the way he said it then it's your loss. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andy9o8 2 #142 August 21, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuote Again, wtf was your point of quoting Newton? I'm sure you can figure it out if you try. Lovely bedside manner you've got there, John. I take it Dale Carnegie isn't one of your favorite authors. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites champu 1 #143 August 21, 2006 QuoteI wonder why parents are spending $120,000 + to send their kids to college these days. They have a terrible understanding of how their state school system works? QuoteSame reason we do a lot of things. We have been sold a bill of goods that a 4 year college education is needed to get ahead. Fortunatley that is now starting to change in some areas/fields. Now that depends on the field you want to get into in some cases. This is true, but the offer for my current job actually included a requirement that I continue going to school to get my masters. QuoteI guess what I find so interesting is the arogance of some of those that think they are better and better off with a degree. I certainly don't think I'm a "better person" because I have a degree, but I can assure you I'm better off. I do, however, share your frustration when dealing with people that try and ride the name of the university they went to as far as possible, even though the particular program they went through was nothing special at that school. QuoteGiven the current degree of outsourcing... ...job designing things for a defense contractor. Ain't it grand when an engineer's best job security is in the form of ITAR regulations? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Nightingale 0 #144 August 21, 2006 QuoteQuoteI wonder why parents are spending $120,000 + to send their kids to college these days. They have a terrible understanding of how their state school system works? Or... They prefer the small class size of private universities, where the professors will actually know their kids' names, where all their classes will actually be taught by the professors and not TAs. Perhaps, the state universities in their state do not offer the major that their kid wants, and the private school does. Private schools don't care what state the kid is from. I went to a private university and don't regret the cost at all (and no, my parents didn't pay for it. I did). However, I took the time to apply for scholarships and grants, also. I wanted to study film. I had pretty much two choices if I wanted my education to have any kind of name-recognition, and those were Loyola Marymount or USC. Both private. I visited both, and picked the one I liked best, which also happened to be the cheaper of the two. I worked in the industry for a few years, and had been getting job offers while I was still working on my degree. I didn't have to chase down job offers. They came to me. I think the biggest difference between public and private schools here in California is size. My largest class ever as a college student had 24 people in it. My brother, who went to Cal State Fullerton, found that his smallest class had 100 people. I knew my teachers and was on a first name basis with most of them. I felt like my teachers knew me and really wanted me to succeed, while my brother's teachers didn't even know his name. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Nightingale 0 #145 August 21, 2006 Quote I guess what I find so interesting is the arogance of some of those that think they are better and better off with a degree. College opens doors for you and gives you options that you wouldn't have otherwise. It also gives 18 year olds, who don't know anything about the world or themselves, more exposure to different things. I had a friend who was sure he wanted to be an engineer and picked up a real-estate class as his business elective. He's now a hotel broker getting commission off multi-million dollar deals. Personally, I knew what I wanted and didn't change my major, but I took some electives that have had a big part in shaping who I am today. My law and politics class is a big reason why I'm in law school right now. My creative art elective is why I'm still looking to dance as exercise and stress relief, ten years after the class. My world history class taught me to love learning about other cultures, and even now, half the books in my bookcase are history books or historical fiction. My choral music classes gave me the confidence to be able to stand up in front of a large group and do something I'm good at. When you've faced a sold-out crowd at the hollywood bowl, public speaking and argument in law school really isn't a big deal. If I hadn't gone to college, I would never have known that I love history and dance, or that large crowds really aren't so scary. I would never have discovered that I enjoy legal argument, and I certainly wouldn't be in law school. At my last job (before I went to law school), I sat next to a guy who did the same job as I did. Exactly the same. But... I got paid about $15K more than he did because I was a college graduate and he wasn't, so they considered my skills and potential more valuable and paid me more. Was I better off? If I'd stayed there a few more years, my degree would've paid for itself easily. Education is a very personal journey, and I don't think I'm better than anyone else because I chose to go to college. I do, however, think I'm better off than I would be if I hadn't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites micro 0 #146 August 21, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Again, wtf was your point of quoting Newton? I'm sure you can figure it out if you try. Lovely bedside manner you've got there, John. I take it Dale Carnegie isn't one of your favorite authors. Kallend: "Dale WHO?" I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 23 #147 August 21, 2006 QuoteQuote I guess what I find so interesting is the arogance of some of those that think they are better and better off with a degree. College opens doors for you and gives you options that you wouldn't have otherwise. It also gives 18 year olds, who don't know anything about the world or themselves, more exposure to different things. I had a friend who was sure he wanted to be an engineer and picked up a real-estate class as his business elective. He's now a hotel broker getting commission off multi-million dollar deals. Personally, I knew what I wanted and didn't change my major, but I took some electives that have had a big part in shaping who I am today. My law and politics class is a big reason why I'm in law school right now. My creative art elective is why I'm still looking to dance as exercise and stress relief, ten years after the class. My world history class taught me to love learning about other cultures, and even now, half the books in my bookcase are history books or historical fiction. My choral music classes gave me the confidence to be able to stand up in front of a large group and do something I'm good at. When you've faced a sold-out crowd at the hollywood bowl, public speaking and argument in law school really isn't a big deal. If I hadn't gone to college, I would never have known that I love history and dance, or that large crowds really aren't so scary. I would never have discovered that I enjoy legal argument, and I certainly wouldn't be in law school. At my last job (before I went to law school), I sat next to a guy who did the same job as I did. Exactly the same. But... I got paid about $15K more than he did because I was a college graduate and he wasn't, so they considered my skills and potential more valuable and paid me more. Was I better off? If I'd stayed there a few more years, my degree would've paid for itself easily. Education is a very personal journey, and I don't think I'm better than anyone else because I chose to go to college. I do, however, think I'm better off than I would be if I hadn't. Nice ressonabe post and I do not agree with any of it. Please remember however that my post was in the context of education political issues and voters. It seems that if a certin chosen one does not get elected it was the uninformed uneducated masses that did the dirty deed. I get tired of that characterization"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,534 #148 August 21, 2006 a. let's cut to the chase. My impression is that you're talking about people complaining about GWB getting elected by the "uninformed uneducated masses." So don't generalize it to everyone. b. the vast majority of Nightingale's post has to do with its impact on her life. I'm not really sure how you can disagree with someone's perception of their own life. c. the vast majority of jobs that I've held had a college degree (or set number of hours) as a prerequisite. You could get around it, but the path was harder. Spud Webb was a 5'4" NBA star, so technically it's also possible for Vinny to be a basketball star if he's just determined enough. It's just that there are a lot more slots for the people who already have the desired qualifications, than the ones who make the hiring manager/whatever go through extra steps to make sure that they can do the job. And we're just talking about jobs here. I also consider my life to have been enriched by my degree (in a dreaded social science, no less). Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Nightingale 0 #149 August 21, 2006 Quote Nice ressonabe post and I do not agree with any of it. You didn't say why. Quote Please remember however that my post was in the context of education political issues and voters. It seems that if a certin chosen one does not get elected it was the uninformed uneducated masses that did the dirty deed. I get tired of that characterization I think, no matter who is elected, that most voters are not educated to the degree they ought to be about the issues, the candidates, our constitution, and our legal system. Many people vote along party lines because they don't understand the issues and don't research the candidates. I don't think it's got anything to do with college. Anybody can read their voter guide, go to their library and look up the candidates on the internet, and read their party's platform. College is too late to wait to educate kids about the way our government should work, what its role is, and what its role is not. Constitutional law should be a mandatory high school subject. In recent years, it seems as though we've been confusing the role of high schools and colleges. After high school, a person should have a working knowledge of math, science, English, history, and political science. College is supposed to be extra education, above and beyond the basics. Colleges shouldn't have to teach composition and grammar. That's high school's job. Colleges certainly shouldn't be teaching remedial math, basic chemistry, biology, or physics. They shouldn't have to teach that the US Constitution overrules the majority vote. A high school graduate should already know this stuff. College should be an extra, but recently, people have been looking at it as a necessity. Not everybody should go to college. Not everybody wants to go to college. They should be able to get along fine without that degree, but more and more, employers expect it and people without it are treated as second-class. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites micro 0 #150 August 21, 2006 Quotea. let's cut to the chase. My impression is that you're talking about people complaining about GWB getting elected by the "uninformed uneducated masses." So don't generalize it to everyone. b. the vast majority of Nightingale's post has to do with its impact on her life. I'm not really sure how you can disagree with someone's perception of their own life. c. the vast majority of jobs that I've held had a college degree (or set number of hours) as a prerequisite. You could get around it, but the path was harder. Spud Webb was a 5'4" NBA star, so technically it's also possible for Vinny to be a basketball star if he's just determined enough. It's just that there are a lot more slots for the people who already have the desired qualifications, than the ones who make the hiring manager/whatever go through extra steps to make sure that they can do the job. And we're just talking about jobs here. I also consider my life to have been enriched by my degree (in a dreaded social science, no less). Wendy W. yeah, i'd pay TOP DOLLAR to see that tequila monster throw down on Shaq-attack! I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next Page 6 of 7 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing × Sign In Sign Up Forums Dropzones Classifieds Gear Indoor Articles Photos Videos Calendar Stolen Fatalities Subscriptions Leaderboard Activity Back Activity All Activity My Activity Streams Unread Content Content I Started
PLFXpert 0 #132 August 18, 2006 I love Fig Newtons.Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #133 August 18, 2006 QuoteIf education counts so little (in your eyes) I wonder why parents are spending $120,000 + to send their kids to college these days. Quote Same reason we do a lot of things. We have been sold a bill of goods that a 4 year college education is needed to get ahead. Fortunatley that is now starting to change in some areas/fields Now that depends on the field you want to get into in some cases. I guess what I find so interesting is the arogance of some of those that think they are better and better off with a degree. US Census Bureau says you're wrong. (No surprise there).... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkyDekker 1,465 #134 August 18, 2006 QuoteUS Census Bureau says you're wrong. yeah, but they are full of educated people and obviously biased. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Shotgun 1 #135 August 18, 2006 This has nothing to do with this thread, but I just realized that I have the perfect girlfriend for you. Well, except that she lives in Cali. Hmm, but I could ship her to you for the right price. Of course, you may not want her since she has no degree and can't answer any of the questions from that poll... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GTAVercetti 0 #136 August 18, 2006 ooo, I like dark curly hair too. Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ChasingBlueSky 0 #137 August 18, 2006 Quote When I was in grade school we called these kind of facts "general knowledge", and general knowledge was considered important I hold this general knowledge, however the majority has done nothing for me. Well, it has helped me spur a few arguments on this board and in other places. But since I left the media, none of it has had an impact in my life. However this information has led to many frustrated nights knowing that despite my best efforts I've influenced very little on the environment that pushes back on me. Sometimes I wonder if ignorance really is bliss._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites winsor 236 #138 August 18, 2006 QuoteIf education counts so little (in your eyes) I wonder why parents are spending $120,000 + to send their kids to college these days. Quote Same reason we do a lot of things. We have been sold a bill of goods that a 4 year college education is needed to get ahead. Fortunately that is now starting to change in some areas/fields Now that depends on the field you want to get into in some cases. I guess what I find so interesting is the arrogance of some of those that think they are better and better off with a degree. Well, I think I am better off with a degree. Then again, I was arrogant a long time before I got a degree. If you think you can do what I do for a living without the knowledge conferred in the 9 years I spent in College, good luck (hint - I am not a Liberal Arts major...). Blue skies, Winsor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites winsor 236 #139 August 18, 2006 QuoteThat's great. But that's not what you said. You said that people who think they ARE better off with a degree are arrogant. Quote Ok, you are right here. There are many that way not all. But my point was more to the context of this thread, education, and the relationship to politics and voters. I believe in the rural areas there may be fewer degreed individuals but they are very smart and a higher % are informed about the issues of the day. As opposed to larger cities where there may be more degreed people (per capita) but do not have a clue about the issues. No facts to support just obervations. Having lived in a variety of rural areas, I can attest to the fact that the most successful farmers I know have very extensive formal education. Agribusiness involves a solid background in Botany, Chemistry, Meteorology, Logistics, Economics and Business. The farmers who are not dirt-poor can give you the economic breakdown of using various crops, seed, tilling techniques, pesticides, herbicides and fertilizers. They can tell you the most effective means of hedging their investments against either crop failure or bumper crops with depressed prices. I guarantee they did not pick up these skills by pondering these concepts while working their fields; they typically have degrees from focused programs at accredited universities. Blue skies, Winsor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #140 August 18, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuote Again, wtf was your point of quoting Newton? I'm sure you can figure it out if you try. yep, wrote it off as irony tower BS from the get go. The elite have always looked down on the masses. It's pretty close to a universal truth of human existence. I was just giving you a chance to come up with a better story. Things can't be that bad in the US - despite placing 'last' is all these student tests and having no cultural knowledge at all, the country is still one of if not the most productive in the world. And thanks to the open access, people are capable of earning their success - if cultural trivia gets them there, they can study and make use of it. Others succeed with less education and more hard work. Me - somewhere in between the extremes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dorbie 0 #141 August 20, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Again, wtf was your point of quoting Newton? I'm sure you can figure it out if you try. yep, wrote it off as irony tower BS from the get go. The elite have always looked down on the masses. It's pretty close to a universal truth of human existence. I was just giving you a chance to come up with a better story. Things can't be that bad in the US - despite placing 'last' is all these student tests and having no cultural knowledge at all, the country is still one of if not the most productive in the world. And thanks to the open access, people are capable of earning their success - if cultural trivia gets them there, they can study and make use of it. Others succeed with less education and more hard work. Me - somewhere in between the extremes. His point was simple, there's always been a wide variation of knowledge and ability, and you shouldn't expect greatness to emerge from a poll of the masses. If you don't appreciate the way he said it then it's your loss. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andy9o8 2 #142 August 21, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuote Again, wtf was your point of quoting Newton? I'm sure you can figure it out if you try. Lovely bedside manner you've got there, John. I take it Dale Carnegie isn't one of your favorite authors. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites champu 1 #143 August 21, 2006 QuoteI wonder why parents are spending $120,000 + to send their kids to college these days. They have a terrible understanding of how their state school system works? QuoteSame reason we do a lot of things. We have been sold a bill of goods that a 4 year college education is needed to get ahead. Fortunatley that is now starting to change in some areas/fields. Now that depends on the field you want to get into in some cases. This is true, but the offer for my current job actually included a requirement that I continue going to school to get my masters. QuoteI guess what I find so interesting is the arogance of some of those that think they are better and better off with a degree. I certainly don't think I'm a "better person" because I have a degree, but I can assure you I'm better off. I do, however, share your frustration when dealing with people that try and ride the name of the university they went to as far as possible, even though the particular program they went through was nothing special at that school. QuoteGiven the current degree of outsourcing... ...job designing things for a defense contractor. Ain't it grand when an engineer's best job security is in the form of ITAR regulations? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Nightingale 0 #144 August 21, 2006 QuoteQuoteI wonder why parents are spending $120,000 + to send their kids to college these days. They have a terrible understanding of how their state school system works? Or... They prefer the small class size of private universities, where the professors will actually know their kids' names, where all their classes will actually be taught by the professors and not TAs. Perhaps, the state universities in their state do not offer the major that their kid wants, and the private school does. Private schools don't care what state the kid is from. I went to a private university and don't regret the cost at all (and no, my parents didn't pay for it. I did). However, I took the time to apply for scholarships and grants, also. I wanted to study film. I had pretty much two choices if I wanted my education to have any kind of name-recognition, and those were Loyola Marymount or USC. Both private. I visited both, and picked the one I liked best, which also happened to be the cheaper of the two. I worked in the industry for a few years, and had been getting job offers while I was still working on my degree. I didn't have to chase down job offers. They came to me. I think the biggest difference between public and private schools here in California is size. My largest class ever as a college student had 24 people in it. My brother, who went to Cal State Fullerton, found that his smallest class had 100 people. I knew my teachers and was on a first name basis with most of them. I felt like my teachers knew me and really wanted me to succeed, while my brother's teachers didn't even know his name. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Nightingale 0 #145 August 21, 2006 Quote I guess what I find so interesting is the arogance of some of those that think they are better and better off with a degree. College opens doors for you and gives you options that you wouldn't have otherwise. It also gives 18 year olds, who don't know anything about the world or themselves, more exposure to different things. I had a friend who was sure he wanted to be an engineer and picked up a real-estate class as his business elective. He's now a hotel broker getting commission off multi-million dollar deals. Personally, I knew what I wanted and didn't change my major, but I took some electives that have had a big part in shaping who I am today. My law and politics class is a big reason why I'm in law school right now. My creative art elective is why I'm still looking to dance as exercise and stress relief, ten years after the class. My world history class taught me to love learning about other cultures, and even now, half the books in my bookcase are history books or historical fiction. My choral music classes gave me the confidence to be able to stand up in front of a large group and do something I'm good at. When you've faced a sold-out crowd at the hollywood bowl, public speaking and argument in law school really isn't a big deal. If I hadn't gone to college, I would never have known that I love history and dance, or that large crowds really aren't so scary. I would never have discovered that I enjoy legal argument, and I certainly wouldn't be in law school. At my last job (before I went to law school), I sat next to a guy who did the same job as I did. Exactly the same. But... I got paid about $15K more than he did because I was a college graduate and he wasn't, so they considered my skills and potential more valuable and paid me more. Was I better off? If I'd stayed there a few more years, my degree would've paid for itself easily. Education is a very personal journey, and I don't think I'm better than anyone else because I chose to go to college. I do, however, think I'm better off than I would be if I hadn't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites micro 0 #146 August 21, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Again, wtf was your point of quoting Newton? I'm sure you can figure it out if you try. Lovely bedside manner you've got there, John. I take it Dale Carnegie isn't one of your favorite authors. Kallend: "Dale WHO?" I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 23 #147 August 21, 2006 QuoteQuote I guess what I find so interesting is the arogance of some of those that think they are better and better off with a degree. College opens doors for you and gives you options that you wouldn't have otherwise. It also gives 18 year olds, who don't know anything about the world or themselves, more exposure to different things. I had a friend who was sure he wanted to be an engineer and picked up a real-estate class as his business elective. He's now a hotel broker getting commission off multi-million dollar deals. Personally, I knew what I wanted and didn't change my major, but I took some electives that have had a big part in shaping who I am today. My law and politics class is a big reason why I'm in law school right now. My creative art elective is why I'm still looking to dance as exercise and stress relief, ten years after the class. My world history class taught me to love learning about other cultures, and even now, half the books in my bookcase are history books or historical fiction. My choral music classes gave me the confidence to be able to stand up in front of a large group and do something I'm good at. When you've faced a sold-out crowd at the hollywood bowl, public speaking and argument in law school really isn't a big deal. If I hadn't gone to college, I would never have known that I love history and dance, or that large crowds really aren't so scary. I would never have discovered that I enjoy legal argument, and I certainly wouldn't be in law school. At my last job (before I went to law school), I sat next to a guy who did the same job as I did. Exactly the same. But... I got paid about $15K more than he did because I was a college graduate and he wasn't, so they considered my skills and potential more valuable and paid me more. Was I better off? If I'd stayed there a few more years, my degree would've paid for itself easily. Education is a very personal journey, and I don't think I'm better than anyone else because I chose to go to college. I do, however, think I'm better off than I would be if I hadn't. Nice ressonabe post and I do not agree with any of it. Please remember however that my post was in the context of education political issues and voters. It seems that if a certin chosen one does not get elected it was the uninformed uneducated masses that did the dirty deed. I get tired of that characterization"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,534 #148 August 21, 2006 a. let's cut to the chase. My impression is that you're talking about people complaining about GWB getting elected by the "uninformed uneducated masses." So don't generalize it to everyone. b. the vast majority of Nightingale's post has to do with its impact on her life. I'm not really sure how you can disagree with someone's perception of their own life. c. the vast majority of jobs that I've held had a college degree (or set number of hours) as a prerequisite. You could get around it, but the path was harder. Spud Webb was a 5'4" NBA star, so technically it's also possible for Vinny to be a basketball star if he's just determined enough. It's just that there are a lot more slots for the people who already have the desired qualifications, than the ones who make the hiring manager/whatever go through extra steps to make sure that they can do the job. And we're just talking about jobs here. I also consider my life to have been enriched by my degree (in a dreaded social science, no less). Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Nightingale 0 #149 August 21, 2006 Quote Nice ressonabe post and I do not agree with any of it. You didn't say why. Quote Please remember however that my post was in the context of education political issues and voters. It seems that if a certin chosen one does not get elected it was the uninformed uneducated masses that did the dirty deed. I get tired of that characterization I think, no matter who is elected, that most voters are not educated to the degree they ought to be about the issues, the candidates, our constitution, and our legal system. Many people vote along party lines because they don't understand the issues and don't research the candidates. I don't think it's got anything to do with college. Anybody can read their voter guide, go to their library and look up the candidates on the internet, and read their party's platform. College is too late to wait to educate kids about the way our government should work, what its role is, and what its role is not. Constitutional law should be a mandatory high school subject. In recent years, it seems as though we've been confusing the role of high schools and colleges. After high school, a person should have a working knowledge of math, science, English, history, and political science. College is supposed to be extra education, above and beyond the basics. Colleges shouldn't have to teach composition and grammar. That's high school's job. Colleges certainly shouldn't be teaching remedial math, basic chemistry, biology, or physics. They shouldn't have to teach that the US Constitution overrules the majority vote. A high school graduate should already know this stuff. College should be an extra, but recently, people have been looking at it as a necessity. Not everybody should go to college. Not everybody wants to go to college. They should be able to get along fine without that degree, but more and more, employers expect it and people without it are treated as second-class. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites micro 0 #150 August 21, 2006 Quotea. let's cut to the chase. My impression is that you're talking about people complaining about GWB getting elected by the "uninformed uneducated masses." So don't generalize it to everyone. b. the vast majority of Nightingale's post has to do with its impact on her life. I'm not really sure how you can disagree with someone's perception of their own life. c. the vast majority of jobs that I've held had a college degree (or set number of hours) as a prerequisite. You could get around it, but the path was harder. Spud Webb was a 5'4" NBA star, so technically it's also possible for Vinny to be a basketball star if he's just determined enough. It's just that there are a lot more slots for the people who already have the desired qualifications, than the ones who make the hiring manager/whatever go through extra steps to make sure that they can do the job. And we're just talking about jobs here. I also consider my life to have been enriched by my degree (in a dreaded social science, no less). Wendy W. yeah, i'd pay TOP DOLLAR to see that tequila monster throw down on Shaq-attack! I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next Page 6 of 7 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing × Sign In Sign Up Forums Dropzones Classifieds Gear Indoor Articles Photos Videos Calendar Stolen Fatalities Subscriptions Leaderboard Activity Back Activity All Activity My Activity Streams Unread Content Content I Started
SkyDekker 1,465 #134 August 18, 2006 QuoteUS Census Bureau says you're wrong. yeah, but they are full of educated people and obviously biased. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #135 August 18, 2006 This has nothing to do with this thread, but I just realized that I have the perfect girlfriend for you. Well, except that she lives in Cali. Hmm, but I could ship her to you for the right price. Of course, you may not want her since she has no degree and can't answer any of the questions from that poll... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GTAVercetti 0 #136 August 18, 2006 ooo, I like dark curly hair too. Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #137 August 18, 2006 Quote When I was in grade school we called these kind of facts "general knowledge", and general knowledge was considered important I hold this general knowledge, however the majority has done nothing for me. Well, it has helped me spur a few arguments on this board and in other places. But since I left the media, none of it has had an impact in my life. However this information has led to many frustrated nights knowing that despite my best efforts I've influenced very little on the environment that pushes back on me. Sometimes I wonder if ignorance really is bliss._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 236 #138 August 18, 2006 QuoteIf education counts so little (in your eyes) I wonder why parents are spending $120,000 + to send their kids to college these days. Quote Same reason we do a lot of things. We have been sold a bill of goods that a 4 year college education is needed to get ahead. Fortunately that is now starting to change in some areas/fields Now that depends on the field you want to get into in some cases. I guess what I find so interesting is the arrogance of some of those that think they are better and better off with a degree. Well, I think I am better off with a degree. Then again, I was arrogant a long time before I got a degree. If you think you can do what I do for a living without the knowledge conferred in the 9 years I spent in College, good luck (hint - I am not a Liberal Arts major...). Blue skies, Winsor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites winsor 236 #139 August 18, 2006 QuoteThat's great. But that's not what you said. You said that people who think they ARE better off with a degree are arrogant. Quote Ok, you are right here. There are many that way not all. But my point was more to the context of this thread, education, and the relationship to politics and voters. I believe in the rural areas there may be fewer degreed individuals but they are very smart and a higher % are informed about the issues of the day. As opposed to larger cities where there may be more degreed people (per capita) but do not have a clue about the issues. No facts to support just obervations. Having lived in a variety of rural areas, I can attest to the fact that the most successful farmers I know have very extensive formal education. Agribusiness involves a solid background in Botany, Chemistry, Meteorology, Logistics, Economics and Business. The farmers who are not dirt-poor can give you the economic breakdown of using various crops, seed, tilling techniques, pesticides, herbicides and fertilizers. They can tell you the most effective means of hedging their investments against either crop failure or bumper crops with depressed prices. I guarantee they did not pick up these skills by pondering these concepts while working their fields; they typically have degrees from focused programs at accredited universities. Blue skies, Winsor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #140 August 18, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuote Again, wtf was your point of quoting Newton? I'm sure you can figure it out if you try. yep, wrote it off as irony tower BS from the get go. The elite have always looked down on the masses. It's pretty close to a universal truth of human existence. I was just giving you a chance to come up with a better story. Things can't be that bad in the US - despite placing 'last' is all these student tests and having no cultural knowledge at all, the country is still one of if not the most productive in the world. And thanks to the open access, people are capable of earning their success - if cultural trivia gets them there, they can study and make use of it. Others succeed with less education and more hard work. Me - somewhere in between the extremes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dorbie 0 #141 August 20, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Again, wtf was your point of quoting Newton? I'm sure you can figure it out if you try. yep, wrote it off as irony tower BS from the get go. The elite have always looked down on the masses. It's pretty close to a universal truth of human existence. I was just giving you a chance to come up with a better story. Things can't be that bad in the US - despite placing 'last' is all these student tests and having no cultural knowledge at all, the country is still one of if not the most productive in the world. And thanks to the open access, people are capable of earning their success - if cultural trivia gets them there, they can study and make use of it. Others succeed with less education and more hard work. Me - somewhere in between the extremes. His point was simple, there's always been a wide variation of knowledge and ability, and you shouldn't expect greatness to emerge from a poll of the masses. If you don't appreciate the way he said it then it's your loss. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andy9o8 2 #142 August 21, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuote Again, wtf was your point of quoting Newton? I'm sure you can figure it out if you try. Lovely bedside manner you've got there, John. I take it Dale Carnegie isn't one of your favorite authors. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites champu 1 #143 August 21, 2006 QuoteI wonder why parents are spending $120,000 + to send their kids to college these days. They have a terrible understanding of how their state school system works? QuoteSame reason we do a lot of things. We have been sold a bill of goods that a 4 year college education is needed to get ahead. Fortunatley that is now starting to change in some areas/fields. Now that depends on the field you want to get into in some cases. This is true, but the offer for my current job actually included a requirement that I continue going to school to get my masters. QuoteI guess what I find so interesting is the arogance of some of those that think they are better and better off with a degree. I certainly don't think I'm a "better person" because I have a degree, but I can assure you I'm better off. I do, however, share your frustration when dealing with people that try and ride the name of the university they went to as far as possible, even though the particular program they went through was nothing special at that school. QuoteGiven the current degree of outsourcing... ...job designing things for a defense contractor. Ain't it grand when an engineer's best job security is in the form of ITAR regulations? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Nightingale 0 #144 August 21, 2006 QuoteQuoteI wonder why parents are spending $120,000 + to send their kids to college these days. They have a terrible understanding of how their state school system works? Or... They prefer the small class size of private universities, where the professors will actually know their kids' names, where all their classes will actually be taught by the professors and not TAs. Perhaps, the state universities in their state do not offer the major that their kid wants, and the private school does. Private schools don't care what state the kid is from. I went to a private university and don't regret the cost at all (and no, my parents didn't pay for it. I did). However, I took the time to apply for scholarships and grants, also. I wanted to study film. I had pretty much two choices if I wanted my education to have any kind of name-recognition, and those were Loyola Marymount or USC. Both private. I visited both, and picked the one I liked best, which also happened to be the cheaper of the two. I worked in the industry for a few years, and had been getting job offers while I was still working on my degree. I didn't have to chase down job offers. They came to me. I think the biggest difference between public and private schools here in California is size. My largest class ever as a college student had 24 people in it. My brother, who went to Cal State Fullerton, found that his smallest class had 100 people. I knew my teachers and was on a first name basis with most of them. I felt like my teachers knew me and really wanted me to succeed, while my brother's teachers didn't even know his name. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Nightingale 0 #145 August 21, 2006 Quote I guess what I find so interesting is the arogance of some of those that think they are better and better off with a degree. College opens doors for you and gives you options that you wouldn't have otherwise. It also gives 18 year olds, who don't know anything about the world or themselves, more exposure to different things. I had a friend who was sure he wanted to be an engineer and picked up a real-estate class as his business elective. He's now a hotel broker getting commission off multi-million dollar deals. Personally, I knew what I wanted and didn't change my major, but I took some electives that have had a big part in shaping who I am today. My law and politics class is a big reason why I'm in law school right now. My creative art elective is why I'm still looking to dance as exercise and stress relief, ten years after the class. My world history class taught me to love learning about other cultures, and even now, half the books in my bookcase are history books or historical fiction. My choral music classes gave me the confidence to be able to stand up in front of a large group and do something I'm good at. When you've faced a sold-out crowd at the hollywood bowl, public speaking and argument in law school really isn't a big deal. If I hadn't gone to college, I would never have known that I love history and dance, or that large crowds really aren't so scary. I would never have discovered that I enjoy legal argument, and I certainly wouldn't be in law school. At my last job (before I went to law school), I sat next to a guy who did the same job as I did. Exactly the same. But... I got paid about $15K more than he did because I was a college graduate and he wasn't, so they considered my skills and potential more valuable and paid me more. Was I better off? If I'd stayed there a few more years, my degree would've paid for itself easily. Education is a very personal journey, and I don't think I'm better than anyone else because I chose to go to college. I do, however, think I'm better off than I would be if I hadn't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites micro 0 #146 August 21, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Again, wtf was your point of quoting Newton? I'm sure you can figure it out if you try. Lovely bedside manner you've got there, John. I take it Dale Carnegie isn't one of your favorite authors. Kallend: "Dale WHO?" I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 23 #147 August 21, 2006 QuoteQuote I guess what I find so interesting is the arogance of some of those that think they are better and better off with a degree. College opens doors for you and gives you options that you wouldn't have otherwise. It also gives 18 year olds, who don't know anything about the world or themselves, more exposure to different things. I had a friend who was sure he wanted to be an engineer and picked up a real-estate class as his business elective. He's now a hotel broker getting commission off multi-million dollar deals. Personally, I knew what I wanted and didn't change my major, but I took some electives that have had a big part in shaping who I am today. My law and politics class is a big reason why I'm in law school right now. My creative art elective is why I'm still looking to dance as exercise and stress relief, ten years after the class. My world history class taught me to love learning about other cultures, and even now, half the books in my bookcase are history books or historical fiction. My choral music classes gave me the confidence to be able to stand up in front of a large group and do something I'm good at. When you've faced a sold-out crowd at the hollywood bowl, public speaking and argument in law school really isn't a big deal. If I hadn't gone to college, I would never have known that I love history and dance, or that large crowds really aren't so scary. I would never have discovered that I enjoy legal argument, and I certainly wouldn't be in law school. At my last job (before I went to law school), I sat next to a guy who did the same job as I did. Exactly the same. But... I got paid about $15K more than he did because I was a college graduate and he wasn't, so they considered my skills and potential more valuable and paid me more. Was I better off? If I'd stayed there a few more years, my degree would've paid for itself easily. Education is a very personal journey, and I don't think I'm better than anyone else because I chose to go to college. I do, however, think I'm better off than I would be if I hadn't. Nice ressonabe post and I do not agree with any of it. Please remember however that my post was in the context of education political issues and voters. It seems that if a certin chosen one does not get elected it was the uninformed uneducated masses that did the dirty deed. I get tired of that characterization"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,534 #148 August 21, 2006 a. let's cut to the chase. My impression is that you're talking about people complaining about GWB getting elected by the "uninformed uneducated masses." So don't generalize it to everyone. b. the vast majority of Nightingale's post has to do with its impact on her life. I'm not really sure how you can disagree with someone's perception of their own life. c. the vast majority of jobs that I've held had a college degree (or set number of hours) as a prerequisite. You could get around it, but the path was harder. Spud Webb was a 5'4" NBA star, so technically it's also possible for Vinny to be a basketball star if he's just determined enough. It's just that there are a lot more slots for the people who already have the desired qualifications, than the ones who make the hiring manager/whatever go through extra steps to make sure that they can do the job. And we're just talking about jobs here. I also consider my life to have been enriched by my degree (in a dreaded social science, no less). Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Nightingale 0 #149 August 21, 2006 Quote Nice ressonabe post and I do not agree with any of it. You didn't say why. Quote Please remember however that my post was in the context of education political issues and voters. It seems that if a certin chosen one does not get elected it was the uninformed uneducated masses that did the dirty deed. I get tired of that characterization I think, no matter who is elected, that most voters are not educated to the degree they ought to be about the issues, the candidates, our constitution, and our legal system. Many people vote along party lines because they don't understand the issues and don't research the candidates. I don't think it's got anything to do with college. Anybody can read their voter guide, go to their library and look up the candidates on the internet, and read their party's platform. College is too late to wait to educate kids about the way our government should work, what its role is, and what its role is not. Constitutional law should be a mandatory high school subject. In recent years, it seems as though we've been confusing the role of high schools and colleges. After high school, a person should have a working knowledge of math, science, English, history, and political science. College is supposed to be extra education, above and beyond the basics. Colleges shouldn't have to teach composition and grammar. That's high school's job. Colleges certainly shouldn't be teaching remedial math, basic chemistry, biology, or physics. They shouldn't have to teach that the US Constitution overrules the majority vote. A high school graduate should already know this stuff. College should be an extra, but recently, people have been looking at it as a necessity. Not everybody should go to college. Not everybody wants to go to college. They should be able to get along fine without that degree, but more and more, employers expect it and people without it are treated as second-class. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites micro 0 #150 August 21, 2006 Quotea. let's cut to the chase. My impression is that you're talking about people complaining about GWB getting elected by the "uninformed uneducated masses." So don't generalize it to everyone. b. the vast majority of Nightingale's post has to do with its impact on her life. I'm not really sure how you can disagree with someone's perception of their own life. c. the vast majority of jobs that I've held had a college degree (or set number of hours) as a prerequisite. You could get around it, but the path was harder. Spud Webb was a 5'4" NBA star, so technically it's also possible for Vinny to be a basketball star if he's just determined enough. It's just that there are a lot more slots for the people who already have the desired qualifications, than the ones who make the hiring manager/whatever go through extra steps to make sure that they can do the job. And we're just talking about jobs here. I also consider my life to have been enriched by my degree (in a dreaded social science, no less). Wendy W. yeah, i'd pay TOP DOLLAR to see that tequila monster throw down on Shaq-attack! I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next Page 6 of 7 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. 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winsor 236 #139 August 18, 2006 QuoteThat's great. But that's not what you said. You said that people who think they ARE better off with a degree are arrogant. Quote Ok, you are right here. There are many that way not all. But my point was more to the context of this thread, education, and the relationship to politics and voters. I believe in the rural areas there may be fewer degreed individuals but they are very smart and a higher % are informed about the issues of the day. As opposed to larger cities where there may be more degreed people (per capita) but do not have a clue about the issues. No facts to support just obervations. Having lived in a variety of rural areas, I can attest to the fact that the most successful farmers I know have very extensive formal education. Agribusiness involves a solid background in Botany, Chemistry, Meteorology, Logistics, Economics and Business. The farmers who are not dirt-poor can give you the economic breakdown of using various crops, seed, tilling techniques, pesticides, herbicides and fertilizers. They can tell you the most effective means of hedging their investments against either crop failure or bumper crops with depressed prices. I guarantee they did not pick up these skills by pondering these concepts while working their fields; they typically have degrees from focused programs at accredited universities. Blue skies, Winsor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #140 August 18, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuote Again, wtf was your point of quoting Newton? I'm sure you can figure it out if you try. yep, wrote it off as irony tower BS from the get go. The elite have always looked down on the masses. It's pretty close to a universal truth of human existence. I was just giving you a chance to come up with a better story. Things can't be that bad in the US - despite placing 'last' is all these student tests and having no cultural knowledge at all, the country is still one of if not the most productive in the world. And thanks to the open access, people are capable of earning their success - if cultural trivia gets them there, they can study and make use of it. Others succeed with less education and more hard work. Me - somewhere in between the extremes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dorbie 0 #141 August 20, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Again, wtf was your point of quoting Newton? I'm sure you can figure it out if you try. yep, wrote it off as irony tower BS from the get go. The elite have always looked down on the masses. It's pretty close to a universal truth of human existence. I was just giving you a chance to come up with a better story. Things can't be that bad in the US - despite placing 'last' is all these student tests and having no cultural knowledge at all, the country is still one of if not the most productive in the world. And thanks to the open access, people are capable of earning their success - if cultural trivia gets them there, they can study and make use of it. Others succeed with less education and more hard work. Me - somewhere in between the extremes. His point was simple, there's always been a wide variation of knowledge and ability, and you shouldn't expect greatness to emerge from a poll of the masses. If you don't appreciate the way he said it then it's your loss. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andy9o8 2 #142 August 21, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuote Again, wtf was your point of quoting Newton? I'm sure you can figure it out if you try. Lovely bedside manner you've got there, John. I take it Dale Carnegie isn't one of your favorite authors. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites champu 1 #143 August 21, 2006 QuoteI wonder why parents are spending $120,000 + to send their kids to college these days. They have a terrible understanding of how their state school system works? QuoteSame reason we do a lot of things. We have been sold a bill of goods that a 4 year college education is needed to get ahead. Fortunatley that is now starting to change in some areas/fields. Now that depends on the field you want to get into in some cases. This is true, but the offer for my current job actually included a requirement that I continue going to school to get my masters. QuoteI guess what I find so interesting is the arogance of some of those that think they are better and better off with a degree. I certainly don't think I'm a "better person" because I have a degree, but I can assure you I'm better off. I do, however, share your frustration when dealing with people that try and ride the name of the university they went to as far as possible, even though the particular program they went through was nothing special at that school. QuoteGiven the current degree of outsourcing... ...job designing things for a defense contractor. Ain't it grand when an engineer's best job security is in the form of ITAR regulations? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Nightingale 0 #144 August 21, 2006 QuoteQuoteI wonder why parents are spending $120,000 + to send their kids to college these days. They have a terrible understanding of how their state school system works? Or... They prefer the small class size of private universities, where the professors will actually know their kids' names, where all their classes will actually be taught by the professors and not TAs. Perhaps, the state universities in their state do not offer the major that their kid wants, and the private school does. Private schools don't care what state the kid is from. I went to a private university and don't regret the cost at all (and no, my parents didn't pay for it. I did). However, I took the time to apply for scholarships and grants, also. I wanted to study film. I had pretty much two choices if I wanted my education to have any kind of name-recognition, and those were Loyola Marymount or USC. Both private. I visited both, and picked the one I liked best, which also happened to be the cheaper of the two. I worked in the industry for a few years, and had been getting job offers while I was still working on my degree. I didn't have to chase down job offers. They came to me. I think the biggest difference between public and private schools here in California is size. My largest class ever as a college student had 24 people in it. My brother, who went to Cal State Fullerton, found that his smallest class had 100 people. I knew my teachers and was on a first name basis with most of them. I felt like my teachers knew me and really wanted me to succeed, while my brother's teachers didn't even know his name. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Nightingale 0 #145 August 21, 2006 Quote I guess what I find so interesting is the arogance of some of those that think they are better and better off with a degree. College opens doors for you and gives you options that you wouldn't have otherwise. It also gives 18 year olds, who don't know anything about the world or themselves, more exposure to different things. I had a friend who was sure he wanted to be an engineer and picked up a real-estate class as his business elective. He's now a hotel broker getting commission off multi-million dollar deals. Personally, I knew what I wanted and didn't change my major, but I took some electives that have had a big part in shaping who I am today. My law and politics class is a big reason why I'm in law school right now. My creative art elective is why I'm still looking to dance as exercise and stress relief, ten years after the class. My world history class taught me to love learning about other cultures, and even now, half the books in my bookcase are history books or historical fiction. My choral music classes gave me the confidence to be able to stand up in front of a large group and do something I'm good at. When you've faced a sold-out crowd at the hollywood bowl, public speaking and argument in law school really isn't a big deal. If I hadn't gone to college, I would never have known that I love history and dance, or that large crowds really aren't so scary. I would never have discovered that I enjoy legal argument, and I certainly wouldn't be in law school. At my last job (before I went to law school), I sat next to a guy who did the same job as I did. Exactly the same. But... I got paid about $15K more than he did because I was a college graduate and he wasn't, so they considered my skills and potential more valuable and paid me more. Was I better off? If I'd stayed there a few more years, my degree would've paid for itself easily. Education is a very personal journey, and I don't think I'm better than anyone else because I chose to go to college. I do, however, think I'm better off than I would be if I hadn't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites micro 0 #146 August 21, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Again, wtf was your point of quoting Newton? I'm sure you can figure it out if you try. Lovely bedside manner you've got there, John. I take it Dale Carnegie isn't one of your favorite authors. Kallend: "Dale WHO?" I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 23 #147 August 21, 2006 QuoteQuote I guess what I find so interesting is the arogance of some of those that think they are better and better off with a degree. College opens doors for you and gives you options that you wouldn't have otherwise. It also gives 18 year olds, who don't know anything about the world or themselves, more exposure to different things. I had a friend who was sure he wanted to be an engineer and picked up a real-estate class as his business elective. He's now a hotel broker getting commission off multi-million dollar deals. Personally, I knew what I wanted and didn't change my major, but I took some electives that have had a big part in shaping who I am today. My law and politics class is a big reason why I'm in law school right now. My creative art elective is why I'm still looking to dance as exercise and stress relief, ten years after the class. My world history class taught me to love learning about other cultures, and even now, half the books in my bookcase are history books or historical fiction. My choral music classes gave me the confidence to be able to stand up in front of a large group and do something I'm good at. When you've faced a sold-out crowd at the hollywood bowl, public speaking and argument in law school really isn't a big deal. If I hadn't gone to college, I would never have known that I love history and dance, or that large crowds really aren't so scary. I would never have discovered that I enjoy legal argument, and I certainly wouldn't be in law school. At my last job (before I went to law school), I sat next to a guy who did the same job as I did. Exactly the same. But... I got paid about $15K more than he did because I was a college graduate and he wasn't, so they considered my skills and potential more valuable and paid me more. Was I better off? If I'd stayed there a few more years, my degree would've paid for itself easily. Education is a very personal journey, and I don't think I'm better than anyone else because I chose to go to college. I do, however, think I'm better off than I would be if I hadn't. Nice ressonabe post and I do not agree with any of it. Please remember however that my post was in the context of education political issues and voters. It seems that if a certin chosen one does not get elected it was the uninformed uneducated masses that did the dirty deed. I get tired of that characterization"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,534 #148 August 21, 2006 a. let's cut to the chase. My impression is that you're talking about people complaining about GWB getting elected by the "uninformed uneducated masses." So don't generalize it to everyone. b. the vast majority of Nightingale's post has to do with its impact on her life. I'm not really sure how you can disagree with someone's perception of their own life. c. the vast majority of jobs that I've held had a college degree (or set number of hours) as a prerequisite. You could get around it, but the path was harder. Spud Webb was a 5'4" NBA star, so technically it's also possible for Vinny to be a basketball star if he's just determined enough. It's just that there are a lot more slots for the people who already have the desired qualifications, than the ones who make the hiring manager/whatever go through extra steps to make sure that they can do the job. And we're just talking about jobs here. I also consider my life to have been enriched by my degree (in a dreaded social science, no less). Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Nightingale 0 #149 August 21, 2006 Quote Nice ressonabe post and I do not agree with any of it. You didn't say why. Quote Please remember however that my post was in the context of education political issues and voters. It seems that if a certin chosen one does not get elected it was the uninformed uneducated masses that did the dirty deed. I get tired of that characterization I think, no matter who is elected, that most voters are not educated to the degree they ought to be about the issues, the candidates, our constitution, and our legal system. Many people vote along party lines because they don't understand the issues and don't research the candidates. I don't think it's got anything to do with college. Anybody can read their voter guide, go to their library and look up the candidates on the internet, and read their party's platform. College is too late to wait to educate kids about the way our government should work, what its role is, and what its role is not. Constitutional law should be a mandatory high school subject. In recent years, it seems as though we've been confusing the role of high schools and colleges. After high school, a person should have a working knowledge of math, science, English, history, and political science. College is supposed to be extra education, above and beyond the basics. Colleges shouldn't have to teach composition and grammar. That's high school's job. Colleges certainly shouldn't be teaching remedial math, basic chemistry, biology, or physics. They shouldn't have to teach that the US Constitution overrules the majority vote. A high school graduate should already know this stuff. College should be an extra, but recently, people have been looking at it as a necessity. Not everybody should go to college. Not everybody wants to go to college. They should be able to get along fine without that degree, but more and more, employers expect it and people without it are treated as second-class. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites micro 0 #150 August 21, 2006 Quotea. let's cut to the chase. My impression is that you're talking about people complaining about GWB getting elected by the "uninformed uneducated masses." So don't generalize it to everyone. b. the vast majority of Nightingale's post has to do with its impact on her life. I'm not really sure how you can disagree with someone's perception of their own life. c. the vast majority of jobs that I've held had a college degree (or set number of hours) as a prerequisite. You could get around it, but the path was harder. Spud Webb was a 5'4" NBA star, so technically it's also possible for Vinny to be a basketball star if he's just determined enough. It's just that there are a lot more slots for the people who already have the desired qualifications, than the ones who make the hiring manager/whatever go through extra steps to make sure that they can do the job. And we're just talking about jobs here. I also consider my life to have been enriched by my degree (in a dreaded social science, no less). Wendy W. yeah, i'd pay TOP DOLLAR to see that tequila monster throw down on Shaq-attack! I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next Page 6 of 7 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. 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kelpdiver 2 #140 August 18, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuote Again, wtf was your point of quoting Newton? I'm sure you can figure it out if you try. yep, wrote it off as irony tower BS from the get go. The elite have always looked down on the masses. It's pretty close to a universal truth of human existence. I was just giving you a chance to come up with a better story. Things can't be that bad in the US - despite placing 'last' is all these student tests and having no cultural knowledge at all, the country is still one of if not the most productive in the world. And thanks to the open access, people are capable of earning their success - if cultural trivia gets them there, they can study and make use of it. Others succeed with less education and more hard work. Me - somewhere in between the extremes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dorbie 0 #141 August 20, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Again, wtf was your point of quoting Newton? I'm sure you can figure it out if you try. yep, wrote it off as irony tower BS from the get go. The elite have always looked down on the masses. It's pretty close to a universal truth of human existence. I was just giving you a chance to come up with a better story. Things can't be that bad in the US - despite placing 'last' is all these student tests and having no cultural knowledge at all, the country is still one of if not the most productive in the world. And thanks to the open access, people are capable of earning their success - if cultural trivia gets them there, they can study and make use of it. Others succeed with less education and more hard work. Me - somewhere in between the extremes. His point was simple, there's always been a wide variation of knowledge and ability, and you shouldn't expect greatness to emerge from a poll of the masses. If you don't appreciate the way he said it then it's your loss. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andy9o8 2 #142 August 21, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuote Again, wtf was your point of quoting Newton? I'm sure you can figure it out if you try. Lovely bedside manner you've got there, John. I take it Dale Carnegie isn't one of your favorite authors. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites champu 1 #143 August 21, 2006 QuoteI wonder why parents are spending $120,000 + to send their kids to college these days. They have a terrible understanding of how their state school system works? QuoteSame reason we do a lot of things. We have been sold a bill of goods that a 4 year college education is needed to get ahead. Fortunatley that is now starting to change in some areas/fields. Now that depends on the field you want to get into in some cases. This is true, but the offer for my current job actually included a requirement that I continue going to school to get my masters. QuoteI guess what I find so interesting is the arogance of some of those that think they are better and better off with a degree. I certainly don't think I'm a "better person" because I have a degree, but I can assure you I'm better off. I do, however, share your frustration when dealing with people that try and ride the name of the university they went to as far as possible, even though the particular program they went through was nothing special at that school. QuoteGiven the current degree of outsourcing... ...job designing things for a defense contractor. Ain't it grand when an engineer's best job security is in the form of ITAR regulations? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Nightingale 0 #144 August 21, 2006 QuoteQuoteI wonder why parents are spending $120,000 + to send their kids to college these days. They have a terrible understanding of how their state school system works? Or... They prefer the small class size of private universities, where the professors will actually know their kids' names, where all their classes will actually be taught by the professors and not TAs. Perhaps, the state universities in their state do not offer the major that their kid wants, and the private school does. Private schools don't care what state the kid is from. I went to a private university and don't regret the cost at all (and no, my parents didn't pay for it. I did). However, I took the time to apply for scholarships and grants, also. I wanted to study film. I had pretty much two choices if I wanted my education to have any kind of name-recognition, and those were Loyola Marymount or USC. Both private. I visited both, and picked the one I liked best, which also happened to be the cheaper of the two. I worked in the industry for a few years, and had been getting job offers while I was still working on my degree. I didn't have to chase down job offers. They came to me. I think the biggest difference between public and private schools here in California is size. My largest class ever as a college student had 24 people in it. My brother, who went to Cal State Fullerton, found that his smallest class had 100 people. I knew my teachers and was on a first name basis with most of them. I felt like my teachers knew me and really wanted me to succeed, while my brother's teachers didn't even know his name. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Nightingale 0 #145 August 21, 2006 Quote I guess what I find so interesting is the arogance of some of those that think they are better and better off with a degree. College opens doors for you and gives you options that you wouldn't have otherwise. It also gives 18 year olds, who don't know anything about the world or themselves, more exposure to different things. I had a friend who was sure he wanted to be an engineer and picked up a real-estate class as his business elective. He's now a hotel broker getting commission off multi-million dollar deals. Personally, I knew what I wanted and didn't change my major, but I took some electives that have had a big part in shaping who I am today. My law and politics class is a big reason why I'm in law school right now. My creative art elective is why I'm still looking to dance as exercise and stress relief, ten years after the class. My world history class taught me to love learning about other cultures, and even now, half the books in my bookcase are history books or historical fiction. My choral music classes gave me the confidence to be able to stand up in front of a large group and do something I'm good at. When you've faced a sold-out crowd at the hollywood bowl, public speaking and argument in law school really isn't a big deal. If I hadn't gone to college, I would never have known that I love history and dance, or that large crowds really aren't so scary. I would never have discovered that I enjoy legal argument, and I certainly wouldn't be in law school. At my last job (before I went to law school), I sat next to a guy who did the same job as I did. Exactly the same. But... I got paid about $15K more than he did because I was a college graduate and he wasn't, so they considered my skills and potential more valuable and paid me more. Was I better off? If I'd stayed there a few more years, my degree would've paid for itself easily. Education is a very personal journey, and I don't think I'm better than anyone else because I chose to go to college. I do, however, think I'm better off than I would be if I hadn't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites micro 0 #146 August 21, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Again, wtf was your point of quoting Newton? I'm sure you can figure it out if you try. Lovely bedside manner you've got there, John. I take it Dale Carnegie isn't one of your favorite authors. Kallend: "Dale WHO?" I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 23 #147 August 21, 2006 QuoteQuote I guess what I find so interesting is the arogance of some of those that think they are better and better off with a degree. College opens doors for you and gives you options that you wouldn't have otherwise. It also gives 18 year olds, who don't know anything about the world or themselves, more exposure to different things. I had a friend who was sure he wanted to be an engineer and picked up a real-estate class as his business elective. He's now a hotel broker getting commission off multi-million dollar deals. Personally, I knew what I wanted and didn't change my major, but I took some electives that have had a big part in shaping who I am today. My law and politics class is a big reason why I'm in law school right now. My creative art elective is why I'm still looking to dance as exercise and stress relief, ten years after the class. My world history class taught me to love learning about other cultures, and even now, half the books in my bookcase are history books or historical fiction. My choral music classes gave me the confidence to be able to stand up in front of a large group and do something I'm good at. When you've faced a sold-out crowd at the hollywood bowl, public speaking and argument in law school really isn't a big deal. If I hadn't gone to college, I would never have known that I love history and dance, or that large crowds really aren't so scary. I would never have discovered that I enjoy legal argument, and I certainly wouldn't be in law school. At my last job (before I went to law school), I sat next to a guy who did the same job as I did. Exactly the same. But... I got paid about $15K more than he did because I was a college graduate and he wasn't, so they considered my skills and potential more valuable and paid me more. Was I better off? If I'd stayed there a few more years, my degree would've paid for itself easily. Education is a very personal journey, and I don't think I'm better than anyone else because I chose to go to college. I do, however, think I'm better off than I would be if I hadn't. Nice ressonabe post and I do not agree with any of it. Please remember however that my post was in the context of education political issues and voters. It seems that if a certin chosen one does not get elected it was the uninformed uneducated masses that did the dirty deed. I get tired of that characterization"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,534 #148 August 21, 2006 a. let's cut to the chase. My impression is that you're talking about people complaining about GWB getting elected by the "uninformed uneducated masses." So don't generalize it to everyone. b. the vast majority of Nightingale's post has to do with its impact on her life. I'm not really sure how you can disagree with someone's perception of their own life. c. the vast majority of jobs that I've held had a college degree (or set number of hours) as a prerequisite. You could get around it, but the path was harder. Spud Webb was a 5'4" NBA star, so technically it's also possible for Vinny to be a basketball star if he's just determined enough. It's just that there are a lot more slots for the people who already have the desired qualifications, than the ones who make the hiring manager/whatever go through extra steps to make sure that they can do the job. And we're just talking about jobs here. I also consider my life to have been enriched by my degree (in a dreaded social science, no less). Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Nightingale 0 #149 August 21, 2006 Quote Nice ressonabe post and I do not agree with any of it. You didn't say why. Quote Please remember however that my post was in the context of education political issues and voters. It seems that if a certin chosen one does not get elected it was the uninformed uneducated masses that did the dirty deed. I get tired of that characterization I think, no matter who is elected, that most voters are not educated to the degree they ought to be about the issues, the candidates, our constitution, and our legal system. Many people vote along party lines because they don't understand the issues and don't research the candidates. I don't think it's got anything to do with college. Anybody can read their voter guide, go to their library and look up the candidates on the internet, and read their party's platform. College is too late to wait to educate kids about the way our government should work, what its role is, and what its role is not. Constitutional law should be a mandatory high school subject. In recent years, it seems as though we've been confusing the role of high schools and colleges. After high school, a person should have a working knowledge of math, science, English, history, and political science. College is supposed to be extra education, above and beyond the basics. Colleges shouldn't have to teach composition and grammar. That's high school's job. Colleges certainly shouldn't be teaching remedial math, basic chemistry, biology, or physics. They shouldn't have to teach that the US Constitution overrules the majority vote. A high school graduate should already know this stuff. College should be an extra, but recently, people have been looking at it as a necessity. Not everybody should go to college. Not everybody wants to go to college. They should be able to get along fine without that degree, but more and more, employers expect it and people without it are treated as second-class. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites micro 0 #150 August 21, 2006 Quotea. let's cut to the chase. My impression is that you're talking about people complaining about GWB getting elected by the "uninformed uneducated masses." So don't generalize it to everyone. b. the vast majority of Nightingale's post has to do with its impact on her life. I'm not really sure how you can disagree with someone's perception of their own life. c. the vast majority of jobs that I've held had a college degree (or set number of hours) as a prerequisite. You could get around it, but the path was harder. Spud Webb was a 5'4" NBA star, so technically it's also possible for Vinny to be a basketball star if he's just determined enough. It's just that there are a lot more slots for the people who already have the desired qualifications, than the ones who make the hiring manager/whatever go through extra steps to make sure that they can do the job. And we're just talking about jobs here. I also consider my life to have been enriched by my degree (in a dreaded social science, no less). Wendy W. yeah, i'd pay TOP DOLLAR to see that tequila monster throw down on Shaq-attack! I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next Page 6 of 7 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. 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dorbie 0 #141 August 20, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Again, wtf was your point of quoting Newton? I'm sure you can figure it out if you try. yep, wrote it off as irony tower BS from the get go. The elite have always looked down on the masses. It's pretty close to a universal truth of human existence. I was just giving you a chance to come up with a better story. Things can't be that bad in the US - despite placing 'last' is all these student tests and having no cultural knowledge at all, the country is still one of if not the most productive in the world. And thanks to the open access, people are capable of earning their success - if cultural trivia gets them there, they can study and make use of it. Others succeed with less education and more hard work. Me - somewhere in between the extremes. His point was simple, there's always been a wide variation of knowledge and ability, and you shouldn't expect greatness to emerge from a poll of the masses. If you don't appreciate the way he said it then it's your loss. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andy9o8 2 #142 August 21, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuote Again, wtf was your point of quoting Newton? I'm sure you can figure it out if you try. Lovely bedside manner you've got there, John. I take it Dale Carnegie isn't one of your favorite authors. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites champu 1 #143 August 21, 2006 QuoteI wonder why parents are spending $120,000 + to send their kids to college these days. They have a terrible understanding of how their state school system works? QuoteSame reason we do a lot of things. We have been sold a bill of goods that a 4 year college education is needed to get ahead. Fortunatley that is now starting to change in some areas/fields. Now that depends on the field you want to get into in some cases. This is true, but the offer for my current job actually included a requirement that I continue going to school to get my masters. QuoteI guess what I find so interesting is the arogance of some of those that think they are better and better off with a degree. I certainly don't think I'm a "better person" because I have a degree, but I can assure you I'm better off. I do, however, share your frustration when dealing with people that try and ride the name of the university they went to as far as possible, even though the particular program they went through was nothing special at that school. QuoteGiven the current degree of outsourcing... ...job designing things for a defense contractor. Ain't it grand when an engineer's best job security is in the form of ITAR regulations? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Nightingale 0 #144 August 21, 2006 QuoteQuoteI wonder why parents are spending $120,000 + to send their kids to college these days. They have a terrible understanding of how their state school system works? Or... They prefer the small class size of private universities, where the professors will actually know their kids' names, where all their classes will actually be taught by the professors and not TAs. Perhaps, the state universities in their state do not offer the major that their kid wants, and the private school does. Private schools don't care what state the kid is from. I went to a private university and don't regret the cost at all (and no, my parents didn't pay for it. I did). However, I took the time to apply for scholarships and grants, also. I wanted to study film. I had pretty much two choices if I wanted my education to have any kind of name-recognition, and those were Loyola Marymount or USC. Both private. I visited both, and picked the one I liked best, which also happened to be the cheaper of the two. I worked in the industry for a few years, and had been getting job offers while I was still working on my degree. I didn't have to chase down job offers. They came to me. I think the biggest difference between public and private schools here in California is size. My largest class ever as a college student had 24 people in it. My brother, who went to Cal State Fullerton, found that his smallest class had 100 people. I knew my teachers and was on a first name basis with most of them. I felt like my teachers knew me and really wanted me to succeed, while my brother's teachers didn't even know his name. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Nightingale 0 #145 August 21, 2006 Quote I guess what I find so interesting is the arogance of some of those that think they are better and better off with a degree. College opens doors for you and gives you options that you wouldn't have otherwise. It also gives 18 year olds, who don't know anything about the world or themselves, more exposure to different things. I had a friend who was sure he wanted to be an engineer and picked up a real-estate class as his business elective. He's now a hotel broker getting commission off multi-million dollar deals. Personally, I knew what I wanted and didn't change my major, but I took some electives that have had a big part in shaping who I am today. My law and politics class is a big reason why I'm in law school right now. My creative art elective is why I'm still looking to dance as exercise and stress relief, ten years after the class. My world history class taught me to love learning about other cultures, and even now, half the books in my bookcase are history books or historical fiction. My choral music classes gave me the confidence to be able to stand up in front of a large group and do something I'm good at. When you've faced a sold-out crowd at the hollywood bowl, public speaking and argument in law school really isn't a big deal. If I hadn't gone to college, I would never have known that I love history and dance, or that large crowds really aren't so scary. I would never have discovered that I enjoy legal argument, and I certainly wouldn't be in law school. At my last job (before I went to law school), I sat next to a guy who did the same job as I did. Exactly the same. But... I got paid about $15K more than he did because I was a college graduate and he wasn't, so they considered my skills and potential more valuable and paid me more. Was I better off? If I'd stayed there a few more years, my degree would've paid for itself easily. Education is a very personal journey, and I don't think I'm better than anyone else because I chose to go to college. I do, however, think I'm better off than I would be if I hadn't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites micro 0 #146 August 21, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Again, wtf was your point of quoting Newton? I'm sure you can figure it out if you try. Lovely bedside manner you've got there, John. I take it Dale Carnegie isn't one of your favorite authors. Kallend: "Dale WHO?" I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 23 #147 August 21, 2006 QuoteQuote I guess what I find so interesting is the arogance of some of those that think they are better and better off with a degree. College opens doors for you and gives you options that you wouldn't have otherwise. It also gives 18 year olds, who don't know anything about the world or themselves, more exposure to different things. I had a friend who was sure he wanted to be an engineer and picked up a real-estate class as his business elective. He's now a hotel broker getting commission off multi-million dollar deals. Personally, I knew what I wanted and didn't change my major, but I took some electives that have had a big part in shaping who I am today. My law and politics class is a big reason why I'm in law school right now. My creative art elective is why I'm still looking to dance as exercise and stress relief, ten years after the class. My world history class taught me to love learning about other cultures, and even now, half the books in my bookcase are history books or historical fiction. My choral music classes gave me the confidence to be able to stand up in front of a large group and do something I'm good at. When you've faced a sold-out crowd at the hollywood bowl, public speaking and argument in law school really isn't a big deal. If I hadn't gone to college, I would never have known that I love history and dance, or that large crowds really aren't so scary. I would never have discovered that I enjoy legal argument, and I certainly wouldn't be in law school. At my last job (before I went to law school), I sat next to a guy who did the same job as I did. Exactly the same. But... I got paid about $15K more than he did because I was a college graduate and he wasn't, so they considered my skills and potential more valuable and paid me more. Was I better off? If I'd stayed there a few more years, my degree would've paid for itself easily. Education is a very personal journey, and I don't think I'm better than anyone else because I chose to go to college. I do, however, think I'm better off than I would be if I hadn't. Nice ressonabe post and I do not agree with any of it. Please remember however that my post was in the context of education political issues and voters. It seems that if a certin chosen one does not get elected it was the uninformed uneducated masses that did the dirty deed. I get tired of that characterization"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,534 #148 August 21, 2006 a. let's cut to the chase. My impression is that you're talking about people complaining about GWB getting elected by the "uninformed uneducated masses." So don't generalize it to everyone. b. the vast majority of Nightingale's post has to do with its impact on her life. I'm not really sure how you can disagree with someone's perception of their own life. c. the vast majority of jobs that I've held had a college degree (or set number of hours) as a prerequisite. You could get around it, but the path was harder. Spud Webb was a 5'4" NBA star, so technically it's also possible for Vinny to be a basketball star if he's just determined enough. It's just that there are a lot more slots for the people who already have the desired qualifications, than the ones who make the hiring manager/whatever go through extra steps to make sure that they can do the job. And we're just talking about jobs here. I also consider my life to have been enriched by my degree (in a dreaded social science, no less). Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Nightingale 0 #149 August 21, 2006 Quote Nice ressonabe post and I do not agree with any of it. You didn't say why. Quote Please remember however that my post was in the context of education political issues and voters. It seems that if a certin chosen one does not get elected it was the uninformed uneducated masses that did the dirty deed. I get tired of that characterization I think, no matter who is elected, that most voters are not educated to the degree they ought to be about the issues, the candidates, our constitution, and our legal system. Many people vote along party lines because they don't understand the issues and don't research the candidates. I don't think it's got anything to do with college. Anybody can read their voter guide, go to their library and look up the candidates on the internet, and read their party's platform. College is too late to wait to educate kids about the way our government should work, what its role is, and what its role is not. Constitutional law should be a mandatory high school subject. In recent years, it seems as though we've been confusing the role of high schools and colleges. After high school, a person should have a working knowledge of math, science, English, history, and political science. College is supposed to be extra education, above and beyond the basics. Colleges shouldn't have to teach composition and grammar. That's high school's job. Colleges certainly shouldn't be teaching remedial math, basic chemistry, biology, or physics. They shouldn't have to teach that the US Constitution overrules the majority vote. A high school graduate should already know this stuff. College should be an extra, but recently, people have been looking at it as a necessity. Not everybody should go to college. Not everybody wants to go to college. They should be able to get along fine without that degree, but more and more, employers expect it and people without it are treated as second-class. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites micro 0 #150 August 21, 2006 Quotea. let's cut to the chase. My impression is that you're talking about people complaining about GWB getting elected by the "uninformed uneducated masses." So don't generalize it to everyone. b. the vast majority of Nightingale's post has to do with its impact on her life. I'm not really sure how you can disagree with someone's perception of their own life. c. the vast majority of jobs that I've held had a college degree (or set number of hours) as a prerequisite. You could get around it, but the path was harder. Spud Webb was a 5'4" NBA star, so technically it's also possible for Vinny to be a basketball star if he's just determined enough. It's just that there are a lot more slots for the people who already have the desired qualifications, than the ones who make the hiring manager/whatever go through extra steps to make sure that they can do the job. And we're just talking about jobs here. I also consider my life to have been enriched by my degree (in a dreaded social science, no less). Wendy W. yeah, i'd pay TOP DOLLAR to see that tequila monster throw down on Shaq-attack! I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next Page 6 of 7 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
Andy9o8 2 #142 August 21, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuote Again, wtf was your point of quoting Newton? I'm sure you can figure it out if you try. Lovely bedside manner you've got there, John. I take it Dale Carnegie isn't one of your favorite authors. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites champu 1 #143 August 21, 2006 QuoteI wonder why parents are spending $120,000 + to send their kids to college these days. They have a terrible understanding of how their state school system works? QuoteSame reason we do a lot of things. We have been sold a bill of goods that a 4 year college education is needed to get ahead. Fortunatley that is now starting to change in some areas/fields. Now that depends on the field you want to get into in some cases. This is true, but the offer for my current job actually included a requirement that I continue going to school to get my masters. QuoteI guess what I find so interesting is the arogance of some of those that think they are better and better off with a degree. I certainly don't think I'm a "better person" because I have a degree, but I can assure you I'm better off. I do, however, share your frustration when dealing with people that try and ride the name of the university they went to as far as possible, even though the particular program they went through was nothing special at that school. QuoteGiven the current degree of outsourcing... ...job designing things for a defense contractor. Ain't it grand when an engineer's best job security is in the form of ITAR regulations? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Nightingale 0 #144 August 21, 2006 QuoteQuoteI wonder why parents are spending $120,000 + to send their kids to college these days. They have a terrible understanding of how their state school system works? Or... They prefer the small class size of private universities, where the professors will actually know their kids' names, where all their classes will actually be taught by the professors and not TAs. Perhaps, the state universities in their state do not offer the major that their kid wants, and the private school does. Private schools don't care what state the kid is from. I went to a private university and don't regret the cost at all (and no, my parents didn't pay for it. I did). However, I took the time to apply for scholarships and grants, also. I wanted to study film. I had pretty much two choices if I wanted my education to have any kind of name-recognition, and those were Loyola Marymount or USC. Both private. I visited both, and picked the one I liked best, which also happened to be the cheaper of the two. I worked in the industry for a few years, and had been getting job offers while I was still working on my degree. I didn't have to chase down job offers. They came to me. I think the biggest difference between public and private schools here in California is size. My largest class ever as a college student had 24 people in it. My brother, who went to Cal State Fullerton, found that his smallest class had 100 people. I knew my teachers and was on a first name basis with most of them. I felt like my teachers knew me and really wanted me to succeed, while my brother's teachers didn't even know his name. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Nightingale 0 #145 August 21, 2006 Quote I guess what I find so interesting is the arogance of some of those that think they are better and better off with a degree. College opens doors for you and gives you options that you wouldn't have otherwise. It also gives 18 year olds, who don't know anything about the world or themselves, more exposure to different things. I had a friend who was sure he wanted to be an engineer and picked up a real-estate class as his business elective. He's now a hotel broker getting commission off multi-million dollar deals. Personally, I knew what I wanted and didn't change my major, but I took some electives that have had a big part in shaping who I am today. My law and politics class is a big reason why I'm in law school right now. My creative art elective is why I'm still looking to dance as exercise and stress relief, ten years after the class. My world history class taught me to love learning about other cultures, and even now, half the books in my bookcase are history books or historical fiction. My choral music classes gave me the confidence to be able to stand up in front of a large group and do something I'm good at. When you've faced a sold-out crowd at the hollywood bowl, public speaking and argument in law school really isn't a big deal. If I hadn't gone to college, I would never have known that I love history and dance, or that large crowds really aren't so scary. I would never have discovered that I enjoy legal argument, and I certainly wouldn't be in law school. At my last job (before I went to law school), I sat next to a guy who did the same job as I did. Exactly the same. But... I got paid about $15K more than he did because I was a college graduate and he wasn't, so they considered my skills and potential more valuable and paid me more. Was I better off? If I'd stayed there a few more years, my degree would've paid for itself easily. Education is a very personal journey, and I don't think I'm better than anyone else because I chose to go to college. I do, however, think I'm better off than I would be if I hadn't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites micro 0 #146 August 21, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Again, wtf was your point of quoting Newton? I'm sure you can figure it out if you try. Lovely bedside manner you've got there, John. I take it Dale Carnegie isn't one of your favorite authors. Kallend: "Dale WHO?" I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 23 #147 August 21, 2006 QuoteQuote I guess what I find so interesting is the arogance of some of those that think they are better and better off with a degree. College opens doors for you and gives you options that you wouldn't have otherwise. It also gives 18 year olds, who don't know anything about the world or themselves, more exposure to different things. I had a friend who was sure he wanted to be an engineer and picked up a real-estate class as his business elective. He's now a hotel broker getting commission off multi-million dollar deals. Personally, I knew what I wanted and didn't change my major, but I took some electives that have had a big part in shaping who I am today. My law and politics class is a big reason why I'm in law school right now. My creative art elective is why I'm still looking to dance as exercise and stress relief, ten years after the class. My world history class taught me to love learning about other cultures, and even now, half the books in my bookcase are history books or historical fiction. My choral music classes gave me the confidence to be able to stand up in front of a large group and do something I'm good at. When you've faced a sold-out crowd at the hollywood bowl, public speaking and argument in law school really isn't a big deal. If I hadn't gone to college, I would never have known that I love history and dance, or that large crowds really aren't so scary. I would never have discovered that I enjoy legal argument, and I certainly wouldn't be in law school. At my last job (before I went to law school), I sat next to a guy who did the same job as I did. Exactly the same. But... I got paid about $15K more than he did because I was a college graduate and he wasn't, so they considered my skills and potential more valuable and paid me more. Was I better off? If I'd stayed there a few more years, my degree would've paid for itself easily. Education is a very personal journey, and I don't think I'm better than anyone else because I chose to go to college. I do, however, think I'm better off than I would be if I hadn't. Nice ressonabe post and I do not agree with any of it. Please remember however that my post was in the context of education political issues and voters. It seems that if a certin chosen one does not get elected it was the uninformed uneducated masses that did the dirty deed. I get tired of that characterization"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,534 #148 August 21, 2006 a. let's cut to the chase. My impression is that you're talking about people complaining about GWB getting elected by the "uninformed uneducated masses." So don't generalize it to everyone. b. the vast majority of Nightingale's post has to do with its impact on her life. I'm not really sure how you can disagree with someone's perception of their own life. c. the vast majority of jobs that I've held had a college degree (or set number of hours) as a prerequisite. You could get around it, but the path was harder. Spud Webb was a 5'4" NBA star, so technically it's also possible for Vinny to be a basketball star if he's just determined enough. It's just that there are a lot more slots for the people who already have the desired qualifications, than the ones who make the hiring manager/whatever go through extra steps to make sure that they can do the job. And we're just talking about jobs here. I also consider my life to have been enriched by my degree (in a dreaded social science, no less). Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Nightingale 0 #149 August 21, 2006 Quote Nice ressonabe post and I do not agree with any of it. You didn't say why. Quote Please remember however that my post was in the context of education political issues and voters. It seems that if a certin chosen one does not get elected it was the uninformed uneducated masses that did the dirty deed. I get tired of that characterization I think, no matter who is elected, that most voters are not educated to the degree they ought to be about the issues, the candidates, our constitution, and our legal system. Many people vote along party lines because they don't understand the issues and don't research the candidates. I don't think it's got anything to do with college. Anybody can read their voter guide, go to their library and look up the candidates on the internet, and read their party's platform. College is too late to wait to educate kids about the way our government should work, what its role is, and what its role is not. Constitutional law should be a mandatory high school subject. In recent years, it seems as though we've been confusing the role of high schools and colleges. After high school, a person should have a working knowledge of math, science, English, history, and political science. College is supposed to be extra education, above and beyond the basics. Colleges shouldn't have to teach composition and grammar. That's high school's job. Colleges certainly shouldn't be teaching remedial math, basic chemistry, biology, or physics. They shouldn't have to teach that the US Constitution overrules the majority vote. A high school graduate should already know this stuff. College should be an extra, but recently, people have been looking at it as a necessity. Not everybody should go to college. Not everybody wants to go to college. They should be able to get along fine without that degree, but more and more, employers expect it and people without it are treated as second-class. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites micro 0 #150 August 21, 2006 Quotea. let's cut to the chase. My impression is that you're talking about people complaining about GWB getting elected by the "uninformed uneducated masses." So don't generalize it to everyone. b. the vast majority of Nightingale's post has to do with its impact on her life. I'm not really sure how you can disagree with someone's perception of their own life. c. the vast majority of jobs that I've held had a college degree (or set number of hours) as a prerequisite. You could get around it, but the path was harder. Spud Webb was a 5'4" NBA star, so technically it's also possible for Vinny to be a basketball star if he's just determined enough. It's just that there are a lot more slots for the people who already have the desired qualifications, than the ones who make the hiring manager/whatever go through extra steps to make sure that they can do the job. And we're just talking about jobs here. I also consider my life to have been enriched by my degree (in a dreaded social science, no less). Wendy W. yeah, i'd pay TOP DOLLAR to see that tequila monster throw down on Shaq-attack! I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next Page 6 of 7 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. 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champu 1 #143 August 21, 2006 QuoteI wonder why parents are spending $120,000 + to send their kids to college these days. They have a terrible understanding of how their state school system works? QuoteSame reason we do a lot of things. We have been sold a bill of goods that a 4 year college education is needed to get ahead. Fortunatley that is now starting to change in some areas/fields. Now that depends on the field you want to get into in some cases. This is true, but the offer for my current job actually included a requirement that I continue going to school to get my masters. QuoteI guess what I find so interesting is the arogance of some of those that think they are better and better off with a degree. I certainly don't think I'm a "better person" because I have a degree, but I can assure you I'm better off. I do, however, share your frustration when dealing with people that try and ride the name of the university they went to as far as possible, even though the particular program they went through was nothing special at that school. QuoteGiven the current degree of outsourcing... ...job designing things for a defense contractor. Ain't it grand when an engineer's best job security is in the form of ITAR regulations? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #144 August 21, 2006 QuoteQuoteI wonder why parents are spending $120,000 + to send their kids to college these days. They have a terrible understanding of how their state school system works? Or... They prefer the small class size of private universities, where the professors will actually know their kids' names, where all their classes will actually be taught by the professors and not TAs. Perhaps, the state universities in their state do not offer the major that their kid wants, and the private school does. Private schools don't care what state the kid is from. I went to a private university and don't regret the cost at all (and no, my parents didn't pay for it. I did). However, I took the time to apply for scholarships and grants, also. I wanted to study film. I had pretty much two choices if I wanted my education to have any kind of name-recognition, and those were Loyola Marymount or USC. Both private. I visited both, and picked the one I liked best, which also happened to be the cheaper of the two. I worked in the industry for a few years, and had been getting job offers while I was still working on my degree. I didn't have to chase down job offers. They came to me. I think the biggest difference between public and private schools here in California is size. My largest class ever as a college student had 24 people in it. My brother, who went to Cal State Fullerton, found that his smallest class had 100 people. I knew my teachers and was on a first name basis with most of them. I felt like my teachers knew me and really wanted me to succeed, while my brother's teachers didn't even know his name. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #145 August 21, 2006 Quote I guess what I find so interesting is the arogance of some of those that think they are better and better off with a degree. College opens doors for you and gives you options that you wouldn't have otherwise. It also gives 18 year olds, who don't know anything about the world or themselves, more exposure to different things. I had a friend who was sure he wanted to be an engineer and picked up a real-estate class as his business elective. He's now a hotel broker getting commission off multi-million dollar deals. Personally, I knew what I wanted and didn't change my major, but I took some electives that have had a big part in shaping who I am today. My law and politics class is a big reason why I'm in law school right now. My creative art elective is why I'm still looking to dance as exercise and stress relief, ten years after the class. My world history class taught me to love learning about other cultures, and even now, half the books in my bookcase are history books or historical fiction. My choral music classes gave me the confidence to be able to stand up in front of a large group and do something I'm good at. When you've faced a sold-out crowd at the hollywood bowl, public speaking and argument in law school really isn't a big deal. If I hadn't gone to college, I would never have known that I love history and dance, or that large crowds really aren't so scary. I would never have discovered that I enjoy legal argument, and I certainly wouldn't be in law school. At my last job (before I went to law school), I sat next to a guy who did the same job as I did. Exactly the same. But... I got paid about $15K more than he did because I was a college graduate and he wasn't, so they considered my skills and potential more valuable and paid me more. Was I better off? If I'd stayed there a few more years, my degree would've paid for itself easily. Education is a very personal journey, and I don't think I'm better than anyone else because I chose to go to college. I do, however, think I'm better off than I would be if I hadn't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
micro 0 #146 August 21, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Again, wtf was your point of quoting Newton? I'm sure you can figure it out if you try. Lovely bedside manner you've got there, John. I take it Dale Carnegie isn't one of your favorite authors. Kallend: "Dale WHO?" I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 23 #147 August 21, 2006 QuoteQuote I guess what I find so interesting is the arogance of some of those that think they are better and better off with a degree. College opens doors for you and gives you options that you wouldn't have otherwise. It also gives 18 year olds, who don't know anything about the world or themselves, more exposure to different things. I had a friend who was sure he wanted to be an engineer and picked up a real-estate class as his business elective. He's now a hotel broker getting commission off multi-million dollar deals. Personally, I knew what I wanted and didn't change my major, but I took some electives that have had a big part in shaping who I am today. My law and politics class is a big reason why I'm in law school right now. My creative art elective is why I'm still looking to dance as exercise and stress relief, ten years after the class. My world history class taught me to love learning about other cultures, and even now, half the books in my bookcase are history books or historical fiction. My choral music classes gave me the confidence to be able to stand up in front of a large group and do something I'm good at. When you've faced a sold-out crowd at the hollywood bowl, public speaking and argument in law school really isn't a big deal. If I hadn't gone to college, I would never have known that I love history and dance, or that large crowds really aren't so scary. I would never have discovered that I enjoy legal argument, and I certainly wouldn't be in law school. At my last job (before I went to law school), I sat next to a guy who did the same job as I did. Exactly the same. But... I got paid about $15K more than he did because I was a college graduate and he wasn't, so they considered my skills and potential more valuable and paid me more. Was I better off? If I'd stayed there a few more years, my degree would've paid for itself easily. Education is a very personal journey, and I don't think I'm better than anyone else because I chose to go to college. I do, however, think I'm better off than I would be if I hadn't. Nice ressonabe post and I do not agree with any of it. Please remember however that my post was in the context of education political issues and voters. It seems that if a certin chosen one does not get elected it was the uninformed uneducated masses that did the dirty deed. I get tired of that characterization"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,534 #148 August 21, 2006 a. let's cut to the chase. My impression is that you're talking about people complaining about GWB getting elected by the "uninformed uneducated masses." So don't generalize it to everyone. b. the vast majority of Nightingale's post has to do with its impact on her life. I'm not really sure how you can disagree with someone's perception of their own life. c. the vast majority of jobs that I've held had a college degree (or set number of hours) as a prerequisite. You could get around it, but the path was harder. Spud Webb was a 5'4" NBA star, so technically it's also possible for Vinny to be a basketball star if he's just determined enough. It's just that there are a lot more slots for the people who already have the desired qualifications, than the ones who make the hiring manager/whatever go through extra steps to make sure that they can do the job. And we're just talking about jobs here. I also consider my life to have been enriched by my degree (in a dreaded social science, no less). Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Nightingale 0 #149 August 21, 2006 Quote Nice ressonabe post and I do not agree with any of it. You didn't say why. Quote Please remember however that my post was in the context of education political issues and voters. It seems that if a certin chosen one does not get elected it was the uninformed uneducated masses that did the dirty deed. I get tired of that characterization I think, no matter who is elected, that most voters are not educated to the degree they ought to be about the issues, the candidates, our constitution, and our legal system. Many people vote along party lines because they don't understand the issues and don't research the candidates. I don't think it's got anything to do with college. Anybody can read their voter guide, go to their library and look up the candidates on the internet, and read their party's platform. College is too late to wait to educate kids about the way our government should work, what its role is, and what its role is not. Constitutional law should be a mandatory high school subject. In recent years, it seems as though we've been confusing the role of high schools and colleges. After high school, a person should have a working knowledge of math, science, English, history, and political science. College is supposed to be extra education, above and beyond the basics. Colleges shouldn't have to teach composition and grammar. That's high school's job. Colleges certainly shouldn't be teaching remedial math, basic chemistry, biology, or physics. They shouldn't have to teach that the US Constitution overrules the majority vote. A high school graduate should already know this stuff. College should be an extra, but recently, people have been looking at it as a necessity. Not everybody should go to college. Not everybody wants to go to college. They should be able to get along fine without that degree, but more and more, employers expect it and people without it are treated as second-class. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites micro 0 #150 August 21, 2006 Quotea. let's cut to the chase. My impression is that you're talking about people complaining about GWB getting elected by the "uninformed uneducated masses." So don't generalize it to everyone. b. the vast majority of Nightingale's post has to do with its impact on her life. I'm not really sure how you can disagree with someone's perception of their own life. c. the vast majority of jobs that I've held had a college degree (or set number of hours) as a prerequisite. You could get around it, but the path was harder. Spud Webb was a 5'4" NBA star, so technically it's also possible for Vinny to be a basketball star if he's just determined enough. It's just that there are a lot more slots for the people who already have the desired qualifications, than the ones who make the hiring manager/whatever go through extra steps to make sure that they can do the job. And we're just talking about jobs here. I also consider my life to have been enriched by my degree (in a dreaded social science, no less). Wendy W. yeah, i'd pay TOP DOLLAR to see that tequila monster throw down on Shaq-attack! I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next Page 6 of 7 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
rushmc 23 #147 August 21, 2006 QuoteQuote I guess what I find so interesting is the arogance of some of those that think they are better and better off with a degree. College opens doors for you and gives you options that you wouldn't have otherwise. It also gives 18 year olds, who don't know anything about the world or themselves, more exposure to different things. I had a friend who was sure he wanted to be an engineer and picked up a real-estate class as his business elective. He's now a hotel broker getting commission off multi-million dollar deals. Personally, I knew what I wanted and didn't change my major, but I took some electives that have had a big part in shaping who I am today. My law and politics class is a big reason why I'm in law school right now. My creative art elective is why I'm still looking to dance as exercise and stress relief, ten years after the class. My world history class taught me to love learning about other cultures, and even now, half the books in my bookcase are history books or historical fiction. My choral music classes gave me the confidence to be able to stand up in front of a large group and do something I'm good at. When you've faced a sold-out crowd at the hollywood bowl, public speaking and argument in law school really isn't a big deal. If I hadn't gone to college, I would never have known that I love history and dance, or that large crowds really aren't so scary. I would never have discovered that I enjoy legal argument, and I certainly wouldn't be in law school. At my last job (before I went to law school), I sat next to a guy who did the same job as I did. Exactly the same. But... I got paid about $15K more than he did because I was a college graduate and he wasn't, so they considered my skills and potential more valuable and paid me more. Was I better off? If I'd stayed there a few more years, my degree would've paid for itself easily. Education is a very personal journey, and I don't think I'm better than anyone else because I chose to go to college. I do, however, think I'm better off than I would be if I hadn't. Nice ressonabe post and I do not agree with any of it. Please remember however that my post was in the context of education political issues and voters. It seems that if a certin chosen one does not get elected it was the uninformed uneducated masses that did the dirty deed. I get tired of that characterization"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,534 #148 August 21, 2006 a. let's cut to the chase. My impression is that you're talking about people complaining about GWB getting elected by the "uninformed uneducated masses." So don't generalize it to everyone. b. the vast majority of Nightingale's post has to do with its impact on her life. I'm not really sure how you can disagree with someone's perception of their own life. c. the vast majority of jobs that I've held had a college degree (or set number of hours) as a prerequisite. You could get around it, but the path was harder. Spud Webb was a 5'4" NBA star, so technically it's also possible for Vinny to be a basketball star if he's just determined enough. It's just that there are a lot more slots for the people who already have the desired qualifications, than the ones who make the hiring manager/whatever go through extra steps to make sure that they can do the job. And we're just talking about jobs here. I also consider my life to have been enriched by my degree (in a dreaded social science, no less). Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #149 August 21, 2006 Quote Nice ressonabe post and I do not agree with any of it. You didn't say why. Quote Please remember however that my post was in the context of education political issues and voters. It seems that if a certin chosen one does not get elected it was the uninformed uneducated masses that did the dirty deed. I get tired of that characterization I think, no matter who is elected, that most voters are not educated to the degree they ought to be about the issues, the candidates, our constitution, and our legal system. Many people vote along party lines because they don't understand the issues and don't research the candidates. I don't think it's got anything to do with college. Anybody can read their voter guide, go to their library and look up the candidates on the internet, and read their party's platform. College is too late to wait to educate kids about the way our government should work, what its role is, and what its role is not. Constitutional law should be a mandatory high school subject. In recent years, it seems as though we've been confusing the role of high schools and colleges. After high school, a person should have a working knowledge of math, science, English, history, and political science. College is supposed to be extra education, above and beyond the basics. Colleges shouldn't have to teach composition and grammar. That's high school's job. Colleges certainly shouldn't be teaching remedial math, basic chemistry, biology, or physics. They shouldn't have to teach that the US Constitution overrules the majority vote. A high school graduate should already know this stuff. College should be an extra, but recently, people have been looking at it as a necessity. Not everybody should go to college. Not everybody wants to go to college. They should be able to get along fine without that degree, but more and more, employers expect it and people without it are treated as second-class. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
micro 0 #150 August 21, 2006 Quotea. let's cut to the chase. My impression is that you're talking about people complaining about GWB getting elected by the "uninformed uneducated masses." So don't generalize it to everyone. b. the vast majority of Nightingale's post has to do with its impact on her life. I'm not really sure how you can disagree with someone's perception of their own life. c. the vast majority of jobs that I've held had a college degree (or set number of hours) as a prerequisite. You could get around it, but the path was harder. Spud Webb was a 5'4" NBA star, so technically it's also possible for Vinny to be a basketball star if he's just determined enough. It's just that there are a lot more slots for the people who already have the desired qualifications, than the ones who make the hiring manager/whatever go through extra steps to make sure that they can do the job. And we're just talking about jobs here. I also consider my life to have been enriched by my degree (in a dreaded social science, no less). Wendy W. yeah, i'd pay TOP DOLLAR to see that tequila monster throw down on Shaq-attack! I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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