bch7773 0 #51 August 17, 2006 depends on the health condition. If its something that will kill them while they are still a child, then i'd probably abort it. of course, there would be long discussions with the SO MB 3528, RB 1182 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #52 August 17, 2006 QuoteThere was that disease Billvon pointed out before (too early to google as I havent had coffee yet, I think Nightengale pointed it out as well) where the tissues is not a fetus because it does not have the ability to live without the mother. Babies with anencephaly are still fetuses. "Anencephaly is a cephalic disorder that results from a neural tube defect that occurs when the cephalic (head) end of the neural tube fails to close, usually between the 23rd and 26th day of pregnancy, resulting in the absence of a major portion of the brain, skull, and scalp. Infants with this disorder are born without a forebrain - the largest part of the brain consisting mainly of the cerebrum - which is responsible for thinking and coordination. The remaining brain tissue is often exposed - not covered by bone or skin. Infants born with anencephaly are usually blind, deaf, unconscious, and unable to feel pain. Although some individuals with anencephaly may be born with a rudimentary brainstem, which controls autonomic and regulatory function, the lack of a functioning cerebrum permanently rules out the possibility of ever gaining consciousness. Reflex actions such as respiration (breathing) and responses to sound or touch may occur. The disorder is one of the most common disorders of the fetal central nervous system. Most of the foetuses who are affected by anencephaly die in the womb of the mother, during childbirth or in the next few hours after they have exited the mother's body." -wikipedia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mailin 0 #53 August 17, 2006 I've heard, more often than not, that the 'test' someone was given while pregnant did not, in fact, produce a child with that disorder when it was born. The tests can be wrong.Arianna Frances Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,006 #54 August 17, 2006 >If we dont reproduce then we have no future. And if we reproduce too much we have no future. It's keeping things in balance that's the key. Nature used to do this for us, through predators, disease, starvation and natural disasters. Now that we've conquered most of those things, we have to take some responsibility not to reproduce like rabbits - or nature will be forced to make another correction, and we REALLY won't like the next one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lisamariewillbe 1 #55 August 17, 2006 QuoteNow that we've conquered most of those things, we have to take some responsibility not to reproduce like rabbits Choosing to NOT reproduce and abortion are different though. People who choose to not reproduce are making a choice prior to intercourse, which is the number one cause of babies. Often abortions are a result of poor planning and making life decsions without thinking of the possible emotional effects they will suffer down the road. Ive only met one person who wasnt suicidal to some extent after they had an abortion.Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFXpert 0 #56 August 17, 2006 QuoteAnd if we reproduce too much we have no future. It's keeping things in balance that's the key. Nature used to do this for us, through predators, disease, starvation and natural disasters. Now that we've conquered most of those things, we have to take some responsibility not to reproduce like rabbits - or nature will be forced to make another correction, and we REALLY won't like the next one. Absolutely. The problem with this, for me at least, is I would disagree with a law limiting people's freedom to have children at their own will & desire. (Though I often joke I wish there were such an application for child-bearing.) And, though I prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt, I'd be naive to think simply being informed of this fact would deter people from deciding still to have six kids.Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #57 August 17, 2006 QuoteQuoteWell you see you may have missed a small but important point here, all the Downs kids I've met would thinks Farts were fucking hillarious trhey have an awesome sense of humour Ive got 2 boys ages 6 and 7, sadly my life revolves around fart jokes bowel movements and the aspect of them being funny. I do not understand boys Whne they grow up they'll say the same thing about women. Guys are easy to understand, we need sex, food and recreation (in that order) ..... no mystery there. Women, on the other hand, are like a dynamic continuum. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #58 August 17, 2006 QuoteQuoteIts a natural instint to reproduce for most people and animals And it is a natural instinct to kill those that can't keep up. They even coin a term for that - I know you know this - ..... Natural Selection. Of course the Jesus crowd doesn't buy this, even tho it is established every day. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #59 August 17, 2006 Quote>If we dont reproduce then we have no future. And if we reproduce too much we have no future. It's keeping things in balance that's the key. Nature used to do this for us, through predators, disease, starvation and natural disasters. Now that we've conquered most of those things, we have to take some responsibility not to reproduce like rabbits - or nature will be forced to make another correction, and we REALLY won't like the next one. We're only down to 6.2 billion people and soaring..... shit let's all go out and procreate, we're running out. More people = more turbulence, more war, potentially less people Fewer people = less congestion related war, hate = happier society.. People who are inclined to intentionally mass procreate come from 1 or both of 2 schools: 1) Proud of DNA, want to replicate it 2) Believe that Jesus exists and wants to create more people for Jesus after life on earth. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #60 August 17, 2006 QuotePeople who choose to not reproduce are making a choice prior to intercourse, which is the number one cause of babies. Is that where babies come from? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lisamariewillbe 1 #61 August 17, 2006 or 3. Has a undying love for family and children and wishes to have their own and or adopt. QuoteIs that where babies come from? hehehee please I cant do another birds and bees conversation... I already screwed one of those up with my kid.... Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,006 #62 August 17, 2006 >Choosing to NOT reproduce and abortion are different though. Oh, I agree. Abortion is a horrible means of birth control. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peregrinerose 0 #63 August 17, 2006 Quote3. Has a undying love for family and children and wishes to have their own and or adopt. Having an undying love of family/children does not make someone reproduce... as you stated, adoption also fulfills that need. Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,456 #64 August 17, 2006 QuoteIve only met one person who wasnt suicidal to some extent after they had an abortion. You haven't met me yet, then have you? I've had an abortion, and I've never been suicidal. Maybe people don't talk about it a lot. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tmaricle55 0 #65 August 17, 2006 QuoteYou make the decision according to your own conscience and your own beliefs. Society will give you too many varying views, none of them "right" or "wrong." The only choice you need to make is what is right for you. I have to agree... there is no right or wrong in this case. My family has dealt with on a personal level. A family member was told to abort because of several health issues the baby had. Josh was born a dwarf and had several other issues. He never left the hospital except for when he died. My family is still torn on if he should have been born. The issues that no one really thinks about till after the fact. Do you have the money for a special needs child? How will this effect the other children and their care? The amounting bills after Josh's death were amazing. Hannah had to re-connect with her parents due to the amount of time they spent at the hospital. The family went though so much during that time it was very hard for all of us. Times are different we are living longer and means to cure things that would have killed a few generations back. In our zest to beat nature we have taken some of "natures" way of dealing with these things out of the equation. It is something to talk about and really do some soul searching with all the questions, facts and opinions out on the table. Best of luck to you and your friend. Attached is a picture of Josh. Muff Brother # 3883, SCR # 14796 ICD # 1 - Pres. Yeah, I noticed and I think it's funny! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stoneycase 0 #66 August 17, 2006 QuoteIve only met one person who wasnt suicidal to some extent after they had an abortion. ironic, because of the girls i've met who have had an abortion, and guys who were involved with girls that had an abortion, i've only met one who WAS suicidal afterward - and honestly, she was on medication fulltime well before the pregnancy. why can't the decision to terminate or abort the pregnancy include things like, "i can't support a baby with special needs" or something similar? seems wrong to expect a person to continue pregnancy if they find out the child will have severe health problems that will require in-home care 24/7 (or something similar), and that person can't manage that type of financial burden or personal responsibility. everyone's just human, and i don't think i have any right to expect a woman or a man to not stop a pregnancy where the child will be born with severe problems. this world is not an easy place to live, and it's getting tougher each day, and each year. bill is right, natural selection used to help keep the balance, but now, not so much. if our mentality is such that we do not recognize the simple truth that the disadvantaged in this world are just that, disadvantaged, then i think we are just fooling ourselves. i voted to terminate. YMMV /putting a child into a foster home or up for adoption that has severe health issues, IMHO, is worse than terminating the pregnancy. you've most likely doomed that child to a life of constant pain, frustration, and isolation.Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Conundrum 1 #67 August 17, 2006 Quote why can't the decision to terminate or abort the pregnancy include things like, "i can't support a baby with special needs" or something similar? seems wrong to expect a person to continue pregnancy if they find out the child will have severe health problems that will require in-home care 24/7 (or something similar), and that person can't manage that type of financial burden or personal responsibility. A lot of people believe that it's murder and you should just deal with whatever God gives you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lisamariewillbe 1 #68 August 17, 2006 To add to the Chelle, I also believe God never gives one more then they can handle.Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Channman 2 #69 August 17, 2006 > Now imagine a 28yo who cant and who suffers a major birth defect. Have several friends raising special needs children. They have made financial arrangements over the years to insure there children when they become adults and after mom / dad's passing will have the necessary assets in trust to care for them. Not to difficult to accomplish if you love your children. Not a great deal of money over time to leave a great deal of money to care for their surviving child. Life insurance covers this need in the early years while they accumulate the assets. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Conundrum 1 #70 August 17, 2006 QuoteTo add to the Chelle, I also believe God never gives one more then they can handle. That's an interesting thought. Why do you think some people commit suicide? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lisamariewillbe 1 #71 August 17, 2006 I dont know. Wish I did. I just know that when things feel like they cant be handled that if one sticks through it, and follows God then they will make it through, eventually. We make choices. He doesnt give us more then we can handle, but sometimes he gives us more then we want to handleSudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peregrinerose 0 #72 August 17, 2006 QuoteI dont know. Wish I did. I just know that when things feel like they cant be handled that if one sticks through it, and follows God then they will make it through, eventually. We make choices. He doesnt give us more then we can handle, but sometimes he gives us more then we want to handle I don't understand how God has anything to do with it. No matter what life throws at a person, there are 2 choices... handle it or commit suicide. A majority of people choose to live. Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,456 #73 August 17, 2006 QuoteI don't understand how God has anything to do with it. No matter what life throws at a person, there are 2 choices... handle it or commit suicide. A majority of people choose to live.There's all kinds of forms of drug abuse, and running away as well. Either way, there are definitely people who have more than they can handle, for whatever reason. And just because one person can handle something doesn't mean that everyone else should be able to. Some people do not have the physical, intellectual or emotional equipment for some of what they get thrown into, or throw themselves into. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peregrinerose 0 #74 August 17, 2006 QuoteThere's all kinds of forms of drug abuse, and running away as well. But those are ways of handling it. Not productive, not the best, but still means to handle a crappy situation. Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFXpert 0 #75 August 17, 2006 QuoteThere's all kinds of forms of drug abuse, and running away as well. Indeed. I'm a big advocate of the mental benefits of wine, myself.Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
