Muenkel 0 #26 August 19, 2006 Why? Why would some dz.commers post something really offensive in regard to other dz.commers religious faith? What is trying to be accomplished here? I agree the chocolate thing sounds a bit silly, but there has been some really crude remarks made about a religious figure that some dz.commers find not only disrespectful, but hurtful as well. Last night, Deuce posted to Michele that he said a rosary for the person in her life who may have renal failure. This tells me that Deuce holds the Virgin Mary in very high regard, as do Micro, Thunderbrow and myself. I can understand the posts being made innocently, but when fellow dz.commers expressed their feelings on the topic; why did it continue? I guess I'll never understand deliberate cruelty. Chris _________________________________________ Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BirdBabe1 0 #27 August 19, 2006 Deliberate opinion... I don't believe that Mary was a perpetual virgin. Respect that? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sartre 0 #28 August 19, 2006 Since this has developed into a religious "debate", perhaps this is pertinent: Quote The Bonfire Sit back, relax and vent yer angst! This is the place for non-skydiving related discussions. Politics, guns and religion and other sociological debates should be taken to the Speakers Corner please. I purposely stay out of there for exactly this reason. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Muenkel 0 #29 August 19, 2006 Quote Deliberate opinion... I don't believe that Mary was a perpetual virgin. Respect that? I would never disrespect your belief system. It's called courtesy. Chris _________________________________________ Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BirdBabe1 0 #30 August 19, 2006 No worries. I'm okay with what I believe in, that's all. Certainly not a figure in a piece of chocolate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Muenkel 0 #31 August 19, 2006 Quote No worries. I'm okay with what I believe in, that's all. Certainly not a figure in a piece of chocolate. Just for the record, I found the circumstances in the story Walt posted to be quite silly. I won't judge those people. It's just my opinion. Chris _________________________________________ Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #32 August 19, 2006 but the catholic apologists will STILL try to tell you their religion doenst raise sheep... sad...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,098 #33 August 19, 2006 I think it looks like Lady Macbeth in the sleepwalking scene where she says "Out, damn'd spot! out, I say!" I have a heap of dirt in my yard that looks like Jabba the Hutt.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #34 August 19, 2006 Quote i'm taking your comments as somewhat tongue-in-cheeck, and i sincerely hope that was your intent. still, for catholics, such comments as yours can easily be very offensive to others. The world doesn't care if Catholics get offended dude....haven't you heard. Unless you're Muslim, Jewish, or a Scientologist, the world won't demand apologies for relgious insensitivies. So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
micro 0 #35 August 19, 2006 Quote I think it looks like Lady Macbeth in the sleepwalking scene where she says "Out, damn'd spot! out, I say!" I have a heap of dirt in my yard that looks like Jabba the Hutt. OMG, that was too funny! Thanks for helping me cover my screen w/ milk this morning, John. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
micro 0 #36 August 19, 2006 Quote Deliberate opinion... I don't believe that Mary was a perpetual virgin. Respect that? Are you seriously trying to call cochese's prophane, disrespectful comments "deliberate opinion?" If so, that would be laughable if it first didn't leave me speechless. As for respecting your personal believes against the perpetual virginity of Mary, what ISN'T there to respect? They're YOUR beliefs, they belong to YOU. Therefore they ARE worthy of respect. All we ask is that in presenting them you don't denegrate OUR beliefs and offend us in the process. You obviously haven't done that, but cochese has. Can you see that? Gawain's post on this is apropop, for certain... I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
micro 0 #37 August 19, 2006 Quote Quote i'm taking your comments as somewhat tongue-in-cheeck, and i sincerely hope that was your intent. still, for catholics, such comments as yours can easily be very offensive to others. The world doesn't care if Catholics get offended dude....haven't you heard. Unless you're Muslim, Jewish, or a Scientologist, the world won't demand apologies for relgious insensitivies. Well said, my friend. I hope your recovery continues w/o too much pain and frustration. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveStMarys 0 #38 August 19, 2006 My whole issue with this (womans .02) Is that if you are a religious person it clearly states in Exodus 20:4-5, "You shall not make for yourself a carved image, any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God." These people are "hovering over it and placing rose petals, candles and praying at the base of it" Whats up with that?? I am not a Catholic, I do not believe that you have to go to confession all you need to do is look up and pray, God will hear you. I do believe that God gives us little reminders as to how close He is in our daily life, but I think He is disappointed when we take it too far. This is, IMPO, taking it too far (the whole chocolate statue thing). BobbiA miracle is not defined by an event. A miracle is defined by gratitude. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,554 #39 August 19, 2006 Quote Pity the atheist who is grateful but has no one to thank. Pity the religious man who can't cope with reality.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
micro 0 #40 August 19, 2006 Quote Quote Pity the atheist who is grateful but has no one to thank. Pity the religious man who can't cope with reality. Pity the non-religious who don't realize that God IS reality. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
micro 0 #41 August 19, 2006 Quote My whole issue with this (womans .02) Is that if you are a religious person it clearly states in Exodus 20:4-5, "You shall not make for yourself a carved image, any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God." These people are "hovering over it and placing rose petals, candles and praying at the base of it" Whats up with that?? I am not a Catholic, I do not believe that you have to go to confession all you need to do is look up and pray, God will hear you. I do believe that God gives us little reminders as to how close He is in our daily life, but I think He is disappointed when we take it too far. This is, IMPO, taking it too far (the whole chocolate statue thing). Bobbi Again you raise cogent points. There are those in the Catholic Church who can easily be accused of "idol worship" by the way they apparent fawn over what appears to be miraculous images from heaven in edible objects and the like. However, your quote from Exodus needs a little explanation. If the verse in Exodus means what you think it means, and you want to be a faithful bible-believing person and follow said book, you must immediately dispose of all of your pictures. Your wedding album, your baby photos, your skydiving memories, etc. You shall not make for yourself any likeness of anything.. that is in the earth beneath." Is this really what this verse means? We can't have any sort of representations of the objects of our affection? Does this really mean that we can't have reminders of what is important to us? The important events in our lives? All of you with a cross around your neck then, you must throw it out. On the other hand, the issue here is about idolatry: WORSHIPING these images, as if the statue or the picture or the representation were the thing itself that they merely symbolize. This is one of the most fundamental misconceptions that non-catholics have against catholics. They often see Catholics praying at the foot of a statue of Mary or Jesus or a saint and they think we're worshiping the statue. Not true. Instead, we're communicating with the PERSON that the image represents. Haven't you ever looked lovingly at the face of your significant other, or your grandmother, or whomever and said "talked" to them? Is the act of having the image of them hanging from your wall an act of worshiping THEM, either the picture OR the person? No, rather it's a reminder to you of who you love. Of who is important to you. That is what statues are to the Catholic. They help keep us grounded, focused on what is important. They remind of what our goal is -to get to Heaven, and of who went before us marked w/ the sign of faith. Now, that having been said, I agree... people who are bowing before chocolate, IMO, may have a little eccentricity in them. There may BE some idolatry. But this is far different from the practice of having statues and icons and paintings of saints in our churches and homes. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marcandalysse 0 #42 August 19, 2006 I'll have what they were smokin.... and some chocolate for the munchies would be nice! "The reason angels can fly is that they take themselves so lightly." --GK Chesterton Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Everon 0 #43 August 19, 2006 Quote Quote Quote Pity the atheist who is grateful but has no one to thank. Pity the religious man who can't cope with reality. Pity the non-religious who don't realize that God IS reality. Science and critical thinking are my realities, and yes I'm an atheist. And this object looks like the Maltese Falcon to me . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hairyjuan 0 #44 August 19, 2006 duh! mary is the continuing saga of the virgin born crucified saviour myth. since there are NO drawings of her at that time, what constitutes a traditional image? it is all imaginarywe are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively wishers never choose, choosers never wish Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BirdBabe1 0 #45 August 19, 2006 I wasn't referring that Cochees' comments were respectful or disrespectful. Honestly though, when you post on these forums, you're bound to recieve comments, whether they be good or bad. It's just the nature of people. So to expect or ask that everyone be respectful is almost an impossible request. If you (or me) truly believe what we individually do, then nothing anyone says should hurt or offend us. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #46 August 20, 2006 Quote Exodus 20:4-5, "You shall not make for yourself a carved image, any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God." emphasis added...as its one of the fundamental failings in the Xtain religion... why the f&%k would ANYONE possiblly worship a "supreme being" with such petty HUMAN emotions? Pride, Arrogance and Jealousy all accounted for in a single passage. the world will be better off when EVERYONE grows out of such primitive beliefs and manages to control their emotional responses... thus far the Xtain God sets a piss poor example... but apparently obliterating everyone except his chosen few, in a fit of childish rage with the way his creations behaved (exactly as designed) was all part of this 'loving God's' perfect plan.... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #47 August 20, 2006 Quote what constitutes a traditional image? you know "white anglo saxon'.. just like the blue eyed christ you see on velvet____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #48 August 20, 2006 Quote Quote i think we all could use this as a reminder, ME INCLUDED, that ya know, there are some topics that just shouldn't be the source of an attempt at "humor." This is obvoiusly one of them. (That's assuming, of course, that the poster was, in fact, attempting to be funny.) Umm NO, I dont think so, religion has been the topic of comedy for hundreds if not thousands of years in many many religious befiefs. And comeon now fanny shaped Marys and Chocolate flavoured Marys are just screaming for comedy, the fact that they may upset your sensibility is a shame, but that by no means excludes them from the Funny factory fodder. Bring it on I say You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #49 August 20, 2006 Quote Quote Quote Pity the atheist who is grateful but has no one to thank. Pity the religious man who can't cope with reality. Pity the non-religious who don't realize that God IS reality. More of the Stellar comedic stylings of Micro And whats more funny is that all you people complaining about being offended here's a tip for you STOP READING THE THREAD you guys crack me upYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
micro 0 #50 August 20, 2006 Quote Quote Quote i think we all could use this as a reminder, ME INCLUDED, that ya know, there are some topics that just shouldn't be the source of an attempt at "humor." This is obvoiusly one of them. (That's assuming, of course, that the poster was, in fact, attempting to be funny.) Umm NO, I dont think so, religion has been the topic of comedy for hundreds if not thousands of years in many many religious befiefs. And comeon now fanny shaped Marys and Chocolate flavoured Marys are just screaming for comedy, the fact that they may upset your sensibility is a shame, but that by no means excludes them from the Funny factory fodder. Bring it on I say hey squeaker... take you hand and rush it over your head really really fast while making this sound that's the sound of you missing the point of my original post... I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
