freethefly 6 #26 August 30, 2006 My understanding is that I am not the center of the universe yet I am the center of all that surrounds me. I am no more important than a grain of sand yet, I am just as important to the making of a population as a grain of sand is to the making of a beach, although removing me does not cause the population to cease to exist the same as removing a grain of sand does not cause the beach to disappear. Each and everything upon our planet and beyond is just as important as the next. I should not concern myself with myself. Egotism and vanity does not contribute to the well being of the one nor the whole. Vast amounts of riches do not ensure happiness nor good health but contributes to loneliness and ill will. No one can harness the universe or control the future. I surely cannot as I once believed that I could. What happens to us is merely the flow of ciircumstance. I have no more control over death than I do over life. I am to only do what is right and to see others as I do myself. If I am starving then I should eat when I can. If I am amongst many who are starving then I should strive to feed them and they should strive to feed me. As of now I have very little. All of my money has gone to medical bills in the last couple of years. I have only tomatos that I grew to eat. I am fine with that. There are others who have nothing to eat and will die today. If I could give them my last tomato, I would. I cannot afford propane to heat my water but, I can still bathe. There are many who have only enough water to drink. I am grateful that I can do both. I am not worried for myself and fully realize that I will be dead within the next two years as AIDS has taken a major toll on me. I am not concerned with it anymore. For me the point of Taoism is to not concern yourself with yourself but with the concern of others and to truely be a part of the One. From the Tao Teh Ching: 81: True words are not necessarily beautiful. Beautiful words are not necessarily truthful. One who is achieved does not argue, and one who argues is not achieved. One who knows the deepest truth does not need segmented information. One who knows vast amounts of information may not know the truth. One of deep vitue is not occupied with amassing material goods, yet the more he lives for others, the richer his life becomes. The more he gives, the more his life abounds. The subtle Way of the universe is beneficial, not harmful. The integral nature of a person is to extend one's virtue unconditionally and to contend with no one."...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #27 August 30, 2006 QuoteQuoteThe teachings of Jesus are a near mirror image of the teachings of Lao Tzu. All truth is God's truth regardless of who said it. NOW your going to hell... cant have an infallible SOLE WORD of God if all Divine Experiences are True ***As far as Christ not being a deity then how did he heal people and raise the dead? If he was only a good jew trying to reform his own religion why did he accept Peter (John 11:27) and Thomas's (John 20:28) affirmation that he was God? John, and his followers who most likely wrote the Gospel of John, were devout Jews. still you mistake the (possible) factual existence with the PROPAGANDA used to create a Religion.. please provide a SINGLE OBJECTIVE SOURCE that confirms ANY Gospel assertion on the actions and statements of Jesus. there isnt one, not one, anywhere.. all you have is Religious Propaganda you accept as Truth on the basis of Faith.____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #28 August 30, 2006 QuoteOne who is achieved does not argue, and one who argues is not achieved. First off, let me say that I am sorry for your circumstances. Is there no family, friends, or community around to lighten your load? If your situation is as desperate as it sounds, why can't you get gov. assistance? Now, if you have become elevated and enlightened, what are you doing on here starting arguments? The problem with the whole pacifist mentality is this:All you have to eat is tomatoes. Along comes someone who can work, but thinks the world owes him something just because he exists, and suddenly has a hankering for a tomato sandwich.So he takes your tomatoes. If you are not divine, you will be pissed. There goes your pacifist philosophy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #29 August 30, 2006 I think you're preaching to the converted. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackC 0 #30 August 30, 2006 QuoteMy understanding is that I am not the center of the universe yet I am the center of all that surrounds me. I am no more important than a grain of sand yet, I am just as important to the making of a population as a grain of sand is to the making of a beach, although removing me does not cause the population to cease to exist the same as removing a grain of sand does not cause the beach to disappear. Each and everything upon our planet and beyond is just as important as the next. I should not concern myself with myself. Egotism and vanity does not contribute to the well being of the one nor the whole. Vast amounts of riches do not ensure happiness nor good health but contributes to loneliness and ill will. No one can harness the universe or control the future. I surely cannot as I once believed that I could. What happens to us is merely the flow of ciircumstance. I have no more control over death than I do over life. I am to only do what is right and to see others as I do myself. If I am starving then I should eat when I can. If I am amongst many who are starving then I should strive to feed them and they should strive to feed me. As of now I have very little. All of my money has gone to medical bills in the last couple of years. I have only tomatos that I grew to eat. I am fine with that. There are others who have nothing to eat and will die today. If I could give them my last tomato, I would. I cannot afford propane to heat my water but, I can still bathe. There are many who have only enough water to drink. I am grateful that I can do both. I am not worried for myself and fully realize that I will be dead within the next two years as AIDS has taken a major toll on me. I am not concerned with it anymore. For me the point of Taoism is to not concern yourself with yourself but with the concern of others and to truely be a part of the One. It's not often you read something as impressive as that, anywhere and certainly not in here. I've got to tip my hat to you, that was quite inspirational. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #31 August 30, 2006 QuoteAn amazing display of unknowing arrogance. Do you know how deeply offensive that sort of thinking is to free men? Maybe YOU are to obey him... Me? I are to do whatever the hell I want which doesn't include subservience to the imagined wishes of a long-dead itinerant prophet. What is it with hardcore religious types making emperor-like statements about "you will proclaim the lord" "you will drop to your knees" or whatever?You are more than likely subservient to someone somewhere, and chances are that they are no better or worse than you as a human. Following Christ does not mean that you have to be anybody's door mat. Don't think for a minute that as a Christian I have a responsibility to go to New Orleans and rebuild someone's house, while they sit on their fat ass watching me. Ain't gonna happen! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,031 #32 August 30, 2006 >The problem with the whole pacifist mentality is this:All you have to > eat is tomatoes. Along comes someone who can work, but thinks > the world owes him something just because he exists, and suddenly > has a hankering for a tomato sandwich.So he takes your tomatoes. > If you are not divine, you will be pissed. Right. A warmonger would then kill him, his family and his friends - and still not have any tomatoes. A pacifist would grow more tomatoes and hope no one else comes along. A more reasonable person (the sort that seems to never exist in any SC examples) would grow more tomatoes, put up a fence and get a guard dog. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #33 August 30, 2006 Quote more reasonable person (the sort that seems to never exist in any SC examples) would grow more tomatoes, put up a fence and get a guard dog. He would do that in the first place, unless he didn't have money for fence posts or dog food. Or maybe, some people just like the martyr/victim image. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,031 #34 August 30, 2006 >He would do that in the first place . . . . . . thus avoiding the problem to begin with, and ensuring he wouldn't end up in any Speaker's Corner examples! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #35 August 30, 2006 Quote A more reasonable person (the sort that seems to never exist in any SC examples) would grow more tomatoes, put up a fence and get a guard dog. And a gun We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freethefly 6 #36 August 30, 2006 QuoteNow, if you have become elevated and enlightened, what are you doing on here starting arguments? What you take as argument, I see as a discussion with many fine points being made by many of different opinion. The devout christians make fine points and I research what they say for a better understanding of their faith. By doing the research on my own I can go far beyond what they originally said and see the connection to Taoism. I have elavated myself by doing so but, I am far from enlightened. QuoteIs there no family, friends, or community around to lighten your load? I much prefer to carry my own load. When it gets to be a strain, I rest and then afterwards carry on. QuoteIf your situation is as desperate as it sounds, why can't you get gov. assistance? I have chosen not to seek anymore assistance. I have ended all medical care as I have dropped myself from medicare and will not go back to the doctor. My situation looks bad, on the surface but, below that I am content. There are so many whose situation is far more bleak than mine. I own my house, I have something to eat, I have water to drank and bathe in and I have good friends. What else could I need? Last December, I reached the breaking point of depression and some how made it through. Between suicidal episodes, reading the Tao Teh Ching and some good words from quite a few here at DZ.com I was able to clear my mind and start anew. If I die of AIDS complications, so be it. I could just as easily die in a skydive accident or get hit by a car. I have no more control over it than you or anyone else. I could prolong my life by taking meds but, to be honest, I am tired. The weight loss (from 250 to my current 130 pounds), the nausea, fever and night sweats along with other complications are wearing me down. Yet, I am content with my desicission to let it flow to where it will. QuoteThe problem with the whole pacifist mentality is this:All you have to eat is tomatoes. Along comes someone who can work, but thinks the world owes him something just because he exists, and suddenly has a hankering for a tomato sandwich.So he takes your tomatoes. If you are not divine, you will be pissed. There goes your pacifist philosophy No one is going to come along and take my tomatoes. If someone does and I confront that person, I will let them have them. The vines are full. Last year I gave away close to 500 tomatoes and I still have close to 50 tomatoes in the freezer from last summer. No need to get pissed. I could shoot the squirrels and rabbits that feed off of my plants but they are marked for the fall (not safe to kill and eat rabbits during the summer months anyways as they carry a parasite untill the first frost). Does the devine not get anrgy? What about the wrath of god? Seems I have read quite abit in the bible concerning the anger of god. Does this mean that god is not devine? Being a pacifist does not mean that one cannot get angered when confronted and forced into a conflict. Being a pacifist means that one will exhaust all means to end a conflict by diplomacy before having to take the harsher route."...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #37 August 30, 2006 QuoteMy situation looks bad, on the surface but, below that I am content. I truly wish you peace in your adversity. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
windcatcher 0 #38 August 31, 2006 Merely opinion. Mother to the cutest little thing in the world... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #39 August 31, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteThe teachings of Jesus are a near mirror image of the teachings of Lao Tzu. All truth is God's truth regardless of who said it. NOW your going to hell... cant have an infallible SOLE WORD of God if all Divine Experiences are True I DID NOT say all "Divine Experiences" are true. I said all truth is "divine" -- Big difference! EDITED TO ADD: Attached is a diagram of my theory about truth and God steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skysaintj 0 #40 August 31, 2006 Quote One of deep vitue is not occupied with amassing material goods, yet the more he lives for others, the richer his life becomes. The more he gives, the more his life abounds. The subtle Way of the universe is beneficial, not harmful. The integral nature of a person is to extend one's virtue unconditionally and to contend with no one. _____________________________________________ If there is a path for all of our spirits when our time expires i believe that such a path would be determined by various factors that we will never comprehend now .. i'm sure that if you had a belief system that led you to live a good life no matter what religion or none at all , surely you won't end up in a bad place If at first, the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,536 #41 August 31, 2006 QuoteEDITED TO ADD: Attached is a diagram of my theory about truth and God It's contagious! May Sol Invictus have mercy on you allDo you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SpeedRacer 1 #42 August 31, 2006 oh, wait, I thought he said "Jesus was a Toast." sorry. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pirana 0 #43 August 31, 2006 QuoteI also harbor Taoist beliefs. When I was in a Victoria's Secret store in Louisiana a few years agoQuote Whoa, whoa, whoa! Back up a bit, and put the Jesus stuff on hold for a second. I'm very dissappointed this was missed or ignored until now. Tell me, slowly and in detail, preferably with pictures to assure the fullest possible understanding; exactly what did you purchase in that visit to Vicky's Secret?" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites StreetScooby 5 #44 August 31, 2006 Quote EDITED TO ADD: Attached is a diagram of my theory about truth and God Quote God has truth not revealed anywhere. It is unknown to anyone. “God’s ways are not our ways; his thoughts are not our thoughts” Scripture reveals part of the truth about God Scripture, properly interpreted and applied is 100% true. Other theories reveal some truth found in scripture and some truths not found in scripture Other theories are not always 100% true Define scripture, please.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites StreetScooby 5 #45 August 31, 2006 Quote oh, wait, I thought he said "Jesus was a Toast." Step away from the Vodka... BWAHAHA We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites steveorino 7 #46 August 31, 2006 QuoteDefine scripture, please. As a Christian I call the Bible scripture. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites StreetScooby 5 #47 August 31, 2006 Quote As a Christian I call the Bible scripture. I was just double checking my impression/understanding.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites hairyjuan 0 #48 September 2, 2006 Let's just ignore the 1000 years of Inquisitons, witch burnings, and the 50 million 'heathen savages' murdered by Catholics and Protestants, that wanton slaughter in the name of the Triune god never happened in todays christians minds, I guess.we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively wishers never choose, choosers never wish Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SabreDave 0 #49 September 2, 2006 Sounds like everyone is just trying to make their fiction the dominant one......................!?!?! I'll tell ya the real truth, the only truth that is true to be true...............truth NO wait, I won't because to say that anyone way IS THE WAY, that any ONE RELIGION/SPIRITULISM IDEAL is the right one....well, that's just pretty fucking ignorant now isn't it.SabreDave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites hairyjuan 0 #50 September 2, 2006 IF this god exists, something of this mythical god is in every brand, flavor, type, whatever that has shown its face on this planet since the very beginning, including the 'devil' GOD IS TOO BIG TO FIT INTO ANY ONE RELIGION. and now a little prayer, GOD, protect me from your followers.we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively wishers never choose, choosers never wish Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
skysaintj 0 #40 August 31, 2006 Quote One of deep vitue is not occupied with amassing material goods, yet the more he lives for others, the richer his life becomes. The more he gives, the more his life abounds. The subtle Way of the universe is beneficial, not harmful. The integral nature of a person is to extend one's virtue unconditionally and to contend with no one. _____________________________________________ If there is a path for all of our spirits when our time expires i believe that such a path would be determined by various factors that we will never comprehend now .. i'm sure that if you had a belief system that led you to live a good life no matter what religion or none at all , surely you won't end up in a bad place If at first, the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,536 #41 August 31, 2006 QuoteEDITED TO ADD: Attached is a diagram of my theory about truth and God It's contagious! May Sol Invictus have mercy on you allDo you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #42 August 31, 2006 oh, wait, I thought he said "Jesus was a Toast." sorry. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #43 August 31, 2006 QuoteI also harbor Taoist beliefs. When I was in a Victoria's Secret store in Louisiana a few years agoQuote Whoa, whoa, whoa! Back up a bit, and put the Jesus stuff on hold for a second. I'm very dissappointed this was missed or ignored until now. Tell me, slowly and in detail, preferably with pictures to assure the fullest possible understanding; exactly what did you purchase in that visit to Vicky's Secret?" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites StreetScooby 5 #44 August 31, 2006 Quote EDITED TO ADD: Attached is a diagram of my theory about truth and God Quote God has truth not revealed anywhere. It is unknown to anyone. “God’s ways are not our ways; his thoughts are not our thoughts” Scripture reveals part of the truth about God Scripture, properly interpreted and applied is 100% true. Other theories reveal some truth found in scripture and some truths not found in scripture Other theories are not always 100% true Define scripture, please.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites StreetScooby 5 #45 August 31, 2006 Quote oh, wait, I thought he said "Jesus was a Toast." Step away from the Vodka... BWAHAHA We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites steveorino 7 #46 August 31, 2006 QuoteDefine scripture, please. As a Christian I call the Bible scripture. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites StreetScooby 5 #47 August 31, 2006 Quote As a Christian I call the Bible scripture. I was just double checking my impression/understanding.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites hairyjuan 0 #48 September 2, 2006 Let's just ignore the 1000 years of Inquisitons, witch burnings, and the 50 million 'heathen savages' murdered by Catholics and Protestants, that wanton slaughter in the name of the Triune god never happened in todays christians minds, I guess.we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively wishers never choose, choosers never wish Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SabreDave 0 #49 September 2, 2006 Sounds like everyone is just trying to make their fiction the dominant one......................!?!?! I'll tell ya the real truth, the only truth that is true to be true...............truth NO wait, I won't because to say that anyone way IS THE WAY, that any ONE RELIGION/SPIRITULISM IDEAL is the right one....well, that's just pretty fucking ignorant now isn't it.SabreDave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites hairyjuan 0 #50 September 2, 2006 IF this god exists, something of this mythical god is in every brand, flavor, type, whatever that has shown its face on this planet since the very beginning, including the 'devil' GOD IS TOO BIG TO FIT INTO ANY ONE RELIGION. and now a little prayer, GOD, protect me from your followers.we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively wishers never choose, choosers never wish Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
StreetScooby 5 #44 August 31, 2006 Quote EDITED TO ADD: Attached is a diagram of my theory about truth and God Quote God has truth not revealed anywhere. It is unknown to anyone. “God’s ways are not our ways; his thoughts are not our thoughts” Scripture reveals part of the truth about God Scripture, properly interpreted and applied is 100% true. Other theories reveal some truth found in scripture and some truths not found in scripture Other theories are not always 100% true Define scripture, please.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #45 August 31, 2006 Quote oh, wait, I thought he said "Jesus was a Toast." Step away from the Vodka... BWAHAHA We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #46 August 31, 2006 QuoteDefine scripture, please. As a Christian I call the Bible scripture. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #47 August 31, 2006 Quote As a Christian I call the Bible scripture. I was just double checking my impression/understanding.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hairyjuan 0 #48 September 2, 2006 Let's just ignore the 1000 years of Inquisitons, witch burnings, and the 50 million 'heathen savages' murdered by Catholics and Protestants, that wanton slaughter in the name of the Triune god never happened in todays christians minds, I guess.we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively wishers never choose, choosers never wish Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SabreDave 0 #49 September 2, 2006 Sounds like everyone is just trying to make their fiction the dominant one......................!?!?! I'll tell ya the real truth, the only truth that is true to be true...............truth NO wait, I won't because to say that anyone way IS THE WAY, that any ONE RELIGION/SPIRITULISM IDEAL is the right one....well, that's just pretty fucking ignorant now isn't it.SabreDave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hairyjuan 0 #50 September 2, 2006 IF this god exists, something of this mythical god is in every brand, flavor, type, whatever that has shown its face on this planet since the very beginning, including the 'devil' GOD IS TOO BIG TO FIT INTO ANY ONE RELIGION. and now a little prayer, GOD, protect me from your followers.we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively wishers never choose, choosers never wish Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
