WHERE do these people come from?

[popsjumper 2]

Waving a red flag in front of a bull and the bull gores you...who's fault is it?

All you people arguing against responsibility for your actions really should back up and think...You are responding emotionally to a fucked up situation and not thinking it through. Take the emotionally-charged act out of it and go from there...where's the line?

Freedom to do as you want and then get pissed because it incites a negative reaction? Asking for trouble? Tempting fate? Increasing bad odds? Your right to expect non-reaction? What?

In an ideal world, well...but then again, this isn't Utopia.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[NWFlyer 2]

Andy, re-read my posts. I'm all for taking responsibility, and you know I've been up front about that. I'm just not for blaming the victim.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[Royd 0]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've never seen a salesman who displays his wares, and then slaps your hand when you want to handle the merchandise.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote

So it's okay to rape a woman who wears a short skirt because she was "asking for it"?

We're talking RAPE here, not flirting.

I personally think that rape is a crime worthy of the death penalty.

A woman who goes into a bar full of men wearing a short skirt, with little to nothing underneath, lets it all hang out, which, by the way, didn't just happen, and flirts with men she barely knows, is no different than the person driving a new Mercedes with $1000 wheels, and parks it unattended on the seedy side of town, or the person who decides to get money from an ATM at midnight next to some raucous night club.

[Thanatos340 1]

Quote

A woman who goes into a bar full of men wearing a short skirt, with little to nothing underneath, lets it all hang out, which, by the way, didn't just happen, and flirts with men she barely knows, is no different than the person driving a new Mercedes with $1000 wheels, and parks it unattended on the seedy side of town, or the person who decides to get money from an ATM at midnight next to some raucous night club.

It seems to me that I discover more and more sick twisted people every day in this world.

I dont care if she walked in Butt ass nekkid, Laid on the floor and started masturbating... The fist sick fuck that puts an uninvited hand on her should get brains blown out right then and there.

Women can dress and act anyway they damn well please. None of it in way, shape, form, or fashion invites, justifies or excuses anyone that puts their hands on them uninvited in anyway.

Anyone that thinks otherwise is an ignorant sick fuck in my opinion.

[Royd 0]

Quote

It seems to me that I discover more and more sick twisted people every day in this world.

I dont care if she walked in Butt ass nekkid, Laid on the floor and started masturbating... The fist sick fuck that puts an uninvited hand on her should get brains blown out right then and there.

I know you're not talking to me. I said rape is worthy of the death penalty.

I have a job trailer with about $20,000 worth of carpentry tools. I have a ball lock, a tongue lock , and heavy padlocks on the doors, just in case I have to drop it on a job site and leave it.

If I take no effort to secure my tools, and they get stolen, who's fault is it?

Slime balls are everywhere, and I hold the final responsibility for my own well being.

[Thanatos340 1]

So you think we need get out some good old chastity belts?? Nice big padlocks?? How about a nice Burka too??

Gotta lock up those valuables right??

Fuck that.

ANYONE that puts their hands on a woman uninvited reguardless of what she is wearing is the problem.

Does the same thing apply if she is at the Beech or swinmming pool?? Lots of skin shown there. Are they asking to get raped too??

[billvon 2,989]

>The fist sick fuck that puts an uninvited hand on her should get
>brains blown out right then and there.

Well, this is getting out of hand.

The first "sick fuck" that does something like that should be told to cut it out. If he doesn't, then you could claim he's crossing the line. Women have a responsibility to say what they want, and what they don't want. Men have a responsibility to respect their stated desires. (And vice versa of course.)

A woman can dress like a slut, no problem. A guy can hit on her and try to slide his hand up her leg. If she says "cut it out" and he doesn't stop - that's a problem. If she wants him to stop but doesn't say anything - that's also a problem. The issue is not how people dress, it's whether their stated limits are respected.

>Anyone that thinks otherwise is an ignorant sick fuck in my opinion.

Must be tough living in a world where most people are ignorant sick fucks, eh?

[Thanatos340 1]

Quote

Must be tough living in a world where most people are ignorant sick fucks, eh?

You got that right.

[wmw999 2,439]

Obviously you haven't started smoking again! Good for you.
Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[cameramonkey 0]

Quote

Slime balls are everywhere, and I hold the final responsibility for my own well being.

(puts on his nomex suit in case someone decides to misinterpret the following...)

I am in NO way saying any woman deserves rape. Any idiot that decides he should be able to do what he wants to her should be shot.

HOWEVER... we all bear at least SOME responsibility for our actions. Just ask your insurance company. unless you are sitting at home in your living room asleep on the couch, you are at least PARTIALLY at fault no matter how small a part.

for instance, you were in an accident. driving down the road, minding your own business, driving the speed limit with your seatbelt on. You get T-boned going thru an intersection on the green. many insurance companies will apply at least a tiny portion of blame on you. "if he wasnt driving thru that intersection it wouldnt have happened. He is 10% at fault." They'll still pay out usually at 100% but they'll still apply a teeny bit of blame on you for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. (even tho it doesnt count against you)

So she wears an overtly sexy outfit into a bar. The outfit is designed to create an attraction, lust, call attention to herself, etc. Not saying she is asking for it, but she definitely wasnt looking to blend in and not be noticed. She intended to attract attention to herself. She just managed to attract too much of the wrong kind of attention. Once again, she still doesnt deserve to be raped, but she isnt helping matters by her choices. Using the insurance company logic, she is for instance 10% neglegent.... 5% for going to the bar, with a 5% bonus for attracting unwanted attention. Its not enough to say she was “asking for it” or “she deserved it” so he’s still a slimeball… He still shouldn’t have done what she didn’t want him to do. She no more deserved it than you did in the traffic example of being hit by the other driver.

With THAT being said... if I go into the woods with a vest made of veal and get mauled by a bear, its TOTALLY the bear's fault? I had no input on the outcome? Had I chosen to go into the woods without the meat vest, and instead took my bear spray(not so seedy bar), noise maker to scare bears (not so overtly slutty outfit), etc. I had a better chance of telling Mr. bear NO, and getting him to leave me alone because I wasnt appetizing looking, smelling irresistibly like a sammitch, etc.

Its an extreme, but simply to illustrate that you are NEVER totally NOT at fault in any situation. you get points for being where you chose to be, and then it adjusts based on your actions from there. you make good deciscions (dont go to the seedy bar and instead go to a better neighborhood) your risk drops. make bad choices (telling the big biker his girlfreind looks like your dad in a dress) you pay the consequences.

To tie this back into the original thread… the parents DO have at least some responsibility here. If they had instead chosen to get her into something like soccer, softball or 4H (coed club like the boy/girl scouts that has specialty groups like raising/showing specific livestock, photography, painting, etc) she may not have been in this situation due to the lack of unwanted attention.

Don’t tease the bear if you don’t want to get eaten.

Two wrongs don't make a right, however three lefts DO!

[Royd 0]

Quote

Don’t tease the bear if you don’t want to get eaten.

My point, exactly. Thanks.

[pirana 0]

Quote

Quote

And, yes, a girl that dresses like a tramp and goes to bars is probably more likely to be raped....

If I leave my wallet at a restaraunt and someone steals the money, I am partly responsible for providing temptation.

More likely, perhaps. Is it her fault she got raped? No. Should she have exercised better judgment to help keep herself safe? Perhaps, given the reality of "sick fucks" out there.

But in no way is it her fault that the sick fuck chose to rape her. In. No. Way.

Very accurate and important distinction. Dressing for attention increases the odds someone will hassle you to one degree or another. It's not an excuse for their behavior, and doesn't make it the agressee's fault; but that being said - people who dress for attention then complain about the attention get no sympathy from me.

And the primary perverts in those little girl paegents are the parents. No kid is born wanting to be a beauty queen. It's learned behavior. They get put in that place by their parents - most of whom I'd guess are living vicariously thru their children.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[pirana 0]

Quote

Quote

No one should be responsible for a sicko's actions but himself, why should anyone change who they are because of the sicko's that are in this world somewhere.

Exactly. It's along the lines of,

"What was she thinking jogging through Central Park?"

"What were you thinking parking your car there?"

"Why tempt a kleptomaniac by leaving your rig unattended?"

"Why tempt the nasty boss by showing up for work?"

"Why tempt Bubba in prison by taking that shower?"

I could go on...

I think there are things we all do differently because of the sickos in the world. For example, things I would do if there were guaranteed to be no sickos in the world:

<> Allow my kids to go to the park unsupervised.
<> Leave them in the car while I run in to the convenience store for milk and bread.
<> Not lock our doors at night.
<> Walk thru my old neighborhood (south side of Chicago) on a nice warm summer evening.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley