Gawain 0
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soldiers know better than to follow an order like that. when we fight there are rules to the way we fight and that SSG and those SPC's should have questioned that order and then if they still pushed he should have taken it up higher. no one here would do something lke that without questioning it, that order would completely counter the Rules of Engagement (ROE) time and time again we roll the ROE through or heads when we do battle drills and Pre Combat Checks (PCC's) and Pre Combat Inspection's (PCI's) the Roe goes like this and what it basically is is a means to justify deadly force... or what we call escalation of force. first you signal manually or verbally (most servicemembers speak enough arabic to do this effectively and know the ethnic hand gestures, and to boot the local nationals know we dont fuck around when it comes to that shit, they know to stay away if we are postured a certain way, so after the visiua/verbal signaling we fire a warning shot, then fire a non lethal foam round. if after that they still fail to comply and are violating our cordon we shoot to kill. sometimes the speed in which event unfold dont allow for some of those steps and appropriate actions are taken. but a guy with a knife coming at me doesnt mean im going to shoot him, at the most i would strike him with my rifle. but that soldier felt threatened and would have had every right to shoot to kill. but those attackers should have never even been that close to those soldiers... there was no "fog of war" they would have had situational awareness... and further the ROE covers who we can and cant attack, we must get Positive Identification (PID) ie if a man has an AK47 and hes walking down the street or just standing there he is not a threat to me. once he begins to or does put his sights on me then ive got PID and am authorized to fire. we train and train on this and i thinks its al a load of bull for them to even come up with that shoot all military aged males. thats just throwing all that shit we were taught out the window and we as leaders stick to our training, as an NCO i am bound to train and lead those soldiers so they are the most capable and efficient fighting machines on the battle field. what a cop out, every time a soldier gets in trouble he falls back on his chain of command, not only have those soldiers nastied america, but theyve ruined several career officer and enlisted mens careers by even implicating them, what a giant buncha douches. yeah and so what if they are doing a noble thing for thier country thats just bush's glorious hyperbole eating you brain away.
solderi or civilian they should get no less of a penalty for a crime than anyone else, a crime is a crime no matter who commits it, i dont care if the pope murdered someone he should get what he/ they deserve
solderi or civilian they should get no less of a penalty for a crime than anyone else, a crime is a crime no matter who commits it, i dont care if the pope murdered someone he should get what he/ they deserve
Fly it like you stole it
Skyrad 0
A good posting... (In this thread not Iraq
)
Thanks for being informative.
)
Thanks for being informative.
When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
thanks for reading it... that was a fuckin long post
Fly it like you stole it
spoken like a true warrior . respect.
_________________________________________
people see me as a challenge to their balance
people see me as a challenge to their balance
wmw999 2,456
That was a good post. Thanks for posting it.
Wendy W.
Wendy W.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)
one of the main reasons that NCO should have never let that happen is the NCO creed that we are made to learn and live by daily. it goes like this
No one is more professional than I. I am a Non-commissioned Officer, a leader of soldiers. As a non-commissioned officer, I realize that I am a member of a time-honored corps, which is known as “The Backbone of the Army.” I am proud of the Corps of Non-commissioned Officers and will at all times conduct myself so as to bring credit upon the Corps, the military service, and my country regardless of the situation in which I find myself. I will not use my grade or position to attain pleasure, profit, or personal safety.
Competence is my watchword. My two basic responsibilities will always be uppermost in my mind - accomplishment of my mission and the welfare of my soldiers. I will strive to remain tactically and technically proficient. I am aware of my role as a non-commissioned officer. I will fulfill my responsibilities inherent in that role. All soldiers are entitled to outstanding leadership; I will provide that leadership. I know my soldiers and I will always place their needs above my own. I will communicate consistently with my soldiers and never leave them uninformed. I will be fair and impartial when recommending both rewards and punishment.
Officers of my unit will have maximum time to accomplish their duties; they will not have to accomplish mine. I will earn their respect and confidence as well as that of my soldiers. I will be loyal to those with whom I serve; seniors, peers, and subordinates alike. I will exercise initiative by taking appropriate action in the absence of orders. I will not compromise my integrity, nor my moral courage. I will not forget, nor will I allow my comrades to forget that we are professionals, Non-commissioned Officers, Leaders!
and then you have the charge of the NCO
I will discharge carefully and diligently the duties of the grade to which i have been promoted and uphold the traditions and standards of the army.
I understand that soldiers of lesser rank are required to obey my lawful orders. Acorrdingly, I accept responsibilty for thier actions. As a Noncommisioned Officer, I accept the charge to Observe and follow the sorders and directions given by supervisors acting according to the laws, articles and rules governing the discipline of the army, I will correct conditions detrimental to the readiness therof. In so doing, I will fulfill my greatest obligation as a leader and therby confirm my status as a noncommisioned officer.
Now granted these are marines we are talking about i cant say for sure that they have theis same type of thing, but most services share the same sort of creed or statement that we adhere to.
that compounded on the geneva conventions, and on the ROE, and for me the hipocratic oath to a lesser degree... THAT SHIT SHOULD HAVE NEVER HAPPENED, i havent even read a whole lot about the dudes that got in trouble in mahmoudiyah for sexual assault but im sure its something similar, some soldiers are just fuckin retarded, but most of those guys get chaptered before they can do any damage
No one is more professional than I. I am a Non-commissioned Officer, a leader of soldiers. As a non-commissioned officer, I realize that I am a member of a time-honored corps, which is known as “The Backbone of the Army.” I am proud of the Corps of Non-commissioned Officers and will at all times conduct myself so as to bring credit upon the Corps, the military service, and my country regardless of the situation in which I find myself. I will not use my grade or position to attain pleasure, profit, or personal safety.
Competence is my watchword. My two basic responsibilities will always be uppermost in my mind - accomplishment of my mission and the welfare of my soldiers. I will strive to remain tactically and technically proficient. I am aware of my role as a non-commissioned officer. I will fulfill my responsibilities inherent in that role. All soldiers are entitled to outstanding leadership; I will provide that leadership. I know my soldiers and I will always place their needs above my own. I will communicate consistently with my soldiers and never leave them uninformed. I will be fair and impartial when recommending both rewards and punishment.
Officers of my unit will have maximum time to accomplish their duties; they will not have to accomplish mine. I will earn their respect and confidence as well as that of my soldiers. I will be loyal to those with whom I serve; seniors, peers, and subordinates alike. I will exercise initiative by taking appropriate action in the absence of orders. I will not compromise my integrity, nor my moral courage. I will not forget, nor will I allow my comrades to forget that we are professionals, Non-commissioned Officers, Leaders!
and then you have the charge of the NCO
I will discharge carefully and diligently the duties of the grade to which i have been promoted and uphold the traditions and standards of the army.
I understand that soldiers of lesser rank are required to obey my lawful orders. Acorrdingly, I accept responsibilty for thier actions. As a Noncommisioned Officer, I accept the charge to Observe and follow the sorders and directions given by supervisors acting according to the laws, articles and rules governing the discipline of the army, I will correct conditions detrimental to the readiness therof. In so doing, I will fulfill my greatest obligation as a leader and therby confirm my status as a noncommisioned officer.
Now granted these are marines we are talking about i cant say for sure that they have theis same type of thing, but most services share the same sort of creed or statement that we adhere to.
that compounded on the geneva conventions, and on the ROE, and for me the hipocratic oath to a lesser degree... THAT SHIT SHOULD HAVE NEVER HAPPENED, i havent even read a whole lot about the dudes that got in trouble in mahmoudiyah for sexual assault but im sure its something similar, some soldiers are just fuckin retarded, but most of those guys get chaptered before they can do any damage
Fly it like you stole it
You can also bet that ROE's so broad have never been issued. "Kill all military age males" as part of a raid? Give me a break. The ROE's weren't even that broad during the invasion.
The 187th Infantry Regiment is not a bunch of slackers, they're tough, if a bit arrogant. Within the 101st, there's the friendly ribbing from the other guys from the other brigades on post whenever someone talks about the "Rakkasans" because of that. They're a highly decorated unit though and not "souped-up".
Having said that, I hope they get a fair trial. If they're found guilty, I believe the death penalty is appropriate. If they're found not guilty, they'll still get the shaft, as their careers will be tarnished for good.
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!
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