McCain, Warner, Graham and Powell act honorably

[kallend 2,108]

www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20060915.TERROR15/TPStory/TPInternational/America/


I wonder how the White House will smear them.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Amazon 7]

I guess this is what happens when you have to actually live work and FIGHT under the Geneva Conventions... and really pay attention to all that training you get when in the military concerning Code of Conduct.

[freethefly 6]

There is no doubt to McCain's integrity. He is, without doubt, the most honest man in D.C..
If he runs, he has my vote.
A McCain/Powell ticket?

http://www.mccainforpresident.org/

http://www.straighttalkamerica.com/

http://www.mccainmovement.com/

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[stoneycase 0]

Quote

There is no doubt to McCain's integrity. He is, without doubt, the most honest man in D.C..
If he runs, he has my vote.
A McCain/Powell ticket?

http://www.mccainforpresident.org/

http://www.straighttalkamerica.com/

http://www.mccainmovement.com/

If I was a betting man, I'd bet the house on Powell never setting foot in a political office again.

Does whisky count as beer? - Homer
There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner
Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell

[billvon 3,079]

> I'd bet the house on Powell never setting foot in a political office again.

Well, certainly not during the Bush administration. But this split within the GOP may just save the party. If it continues to develop, republicans are going to have a more viable choice. They won't have to vote a straight pro-torture, pro-war, kill-em-all ticket. It wouldn't suprise me at all if Powell is welcomed within the emerging moderate branch of the GOP.

[StreetScooby 5]

Powell would have my vote for President in a heartbeat.

We are all engines of karma

[kelpdiver 2]

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There is no doubt to McCain's integrity. He is, without doubt, the most honest man in D.C..

fortunately for my keyboard, wasn't drinking at the time.

Were you?

At the very least take off the rosy glasses. He might be the closest thing to a viable candidate either party has for 2008, but he's not remotely what you describe, and the GOP will have to swallow hard before they'll give him the ticket.

[Gawain 0]

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There is no doubt to McCain's integrity. He is, without doubt, the most honest man in D.C..

fortunately for my keyboard, wasn't drinking at the time.

Were you?

At the very least take off the rosy glasses. He might be the closest thing to a viable candidate either party has for 2008, but he's not remotely what you describe, and the GOP will have to swallow hard before they'll give him the ticket.

That is indeed true. My only real gripe with McCain is the McCain/Feingold bill. Other than that, I don't have any other glaring problems with him. For some reason though, I'm reluctant to support him right now.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

That is indeed true. My only real gripe with McCain is the McCain/Feingold bill. Other than that, I don't have any other glaring problems with him. For some reason though, I'm reluctant to support him right now.

His imvolvement in the AGS (Americans for Gun Safety) was pretty marginal, but McCain Feingold leaves no doubt at all.

[stoneycase 0]

Quote

> I'd bet the house on Powell never setting foot in a political office again.

Well, certainly not during the Bush administration. But this split within the GOP may just save the party. If it continues to develop, republicans are going to have a more viable choice. They won't have to vote a straight pro-torture, pro-war, kill-em-all ticket. It wouldn't suprise me at all if Powell is welcomed within the emerging moderate branch of the GOP.

It wouldn't surprise me either if he was welcomed by a moderate branch of the GOP. They'd be fools not to court him and those he influences.

What would surprise me is if he was even remotely interested in political office again.

You'll have to excuse my source, as this is all I really have time for at the moment http://teacher.scholastic.com/barrier/powellchat/transcript.htm

Do you see yourself running for President of the United States in the future?
I don't see myself running for President. I considered it several years ago, but decided that I would serve the nation in private life rather than political office. It is important that we do have people who are willing to serve in political office, and I'm glad that so many Americans do want to run for political office. It's what makes democracy work. But you really have to have a passion and a commitment to the political process to become a successful politician.

Putting aside the fact that its from 2000 and the fact that it's an article geared at students, it pretty much sums up what I was looking for: Powell explaining that in order for one to be good at politics they must enjoy it and be passionate about it. He's never claimed to have that energy or passion about politics, and I think we can be fairly certain that his time with Bush pretty much ruined any chance of that passion ever developing.

If you dig harder, you'll find other similar quotes. I was googling a phrase I thought I had heard him say, and although I couldn't find it exactly this was at the top of the list.

FWIW, my father worked directly with Powell in JCS for a number of years. I had a chance to meet him and speak with him when I was in high school a few times, and at length at my fathers retirement. I don't think I've ever heard of, and had the pleasure to meet, a more honorable, intelligent, and respectable human being.

I'd vote for him in a heartbeat, and I'd scream for others to do the same, but I don't think I'll ever get the chance.

Kallend - not sure if you've read this yet, here is the full letter from all the retired generals and DOD officials: http://www.humanrightsfirst.info/pdf/06913-etn-military-let-ca3.pdf

The list of signee's reads like a DoD Program Manager's rolodex...too bad they're missing the folks Bush listens to: Daddy, Karl, and Rev. Falwell

Does whisky count as beer? - Homer
There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner
Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell

[kallend 2,108]

Quote

Kallend - not sure if you've read this yet, here is the full letter from all the retired generals and DOD officials: http://www.humanrightsfirst.info/pdf/06913-etn-military-let-ca3.pdf

The list of signee's reads like a DoD Program Manager's rolodex...too bad they're missing the folks Bush listens to: Daddy, Karl, and Rev. Falwell

I had not seen that, thanks. I'm sure the chickenhawks will find some way of discrediting them, though.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[stoneycase 0]

well, it didn't take long, and it came from the lead chicken hawk himself:

QUESTION: Mr. President, former Secretary of State Colin Powell says, The world is beginning to doubt the moral basis of our fight against terrorism. If a former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and former secretary of state feels this way, don’t you think that Americans and the rest of the world are beginning to wonder whether you’re following a flawed strategy?

BUSH: If there’s any comparison between the compassion and decency of the American people and the terrorist tactics of extremists, it’s flawed logic. It’s just — I simply can’t accept that. It’s unacceptable to think that there’s any kind of comparison between the behavior of the United States of America and the action of Islamic extremists who kill innocent women and children to achieve an objective.

video here: http://thinkprogress.org/2006/09/15/bush-powell/

you know, i really should be working, but shit like this just pisses me off to no end. 1 - it's a strawman, and 2 - argh...don't get me started...

Does whisky count as beer? - Homer
There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner
Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell

[airdweller 0]

There is no doubt to McCain's integrity. He is, without doubt, the most honest man in D.C..
If he runs, he has my vote.
A McCain/Powell ticket?
______________________________________________

Ditto

------------------------------------------------------
"From the mightiest pharaoh to the lowliest peasant,
who doesn't enjoy a good sit?" C. Montgomery Burns

[Royd 0]

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Powell would have my vote for President in a heartbeat.

Sorry, he knew about the Plame/Libby bs, and kept his mouth shut. Not exactly honorable in my book.

[freethefly 6]

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Quote

There is no doubt to McCain's integrity. He is, without doubt, the most honest man in D.C..

fortunately for my keyboard, wasn't drinking at the time.

Were you?

At the very least take off the rosy glasses. He might be the closest thing to a viable candidate either party has for 2008, but he's not remotely what you describe, and the GOP will have to swallow hard before they'll give him the ticket.

I do have some issues with McCain on a few things but, I do stand by what I said about him being the most honest. (My opinion)
Oh, and I don't drink.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[stoneycase 0]

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Powell would have my vote for President in a heartbeat.

Sorry, he knew about the Plame/Libby bs, and kept his mouth shut. Not exactly honorable in my book.

explain. as far as i can tell, Armitage called Powell...

Powell was called to testify to Fitzgerald's grand jury and was never charged.

Here you go: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5570006/site/newsweek/

There's no indication Powell is a subject of the probe; the department official said the secretary never talked to Novak about the Plame matter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plame_affair

scroll down to Richard Armitage...look, i'm no fanboy, and there's plenty of reasons to get upset with Powell (remember that nifty little vial he held up at the UN?), but I think you're off the mark here.

Does whisky count as beer? - Homer
There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner
Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell

[ryoder 1,590]

Quote

www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20060915.TERROR15/TPStory/TPInternational/America/


I wonder how the White House will smear them.

Nice to some of them finally growing a pair. Now when I see an impeachment being brought up for a vote, I'll be very impressed.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[kallend 2,108]

Powell's letter can be seen here:
go.philly.com/colin

IMO, we should treat our prisoners in the same way we would want our troops to be treated if captured by another nation. Bush seems to have lost sight of that concept altogether.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Gawain 0]

Quote

Powell's letter can be seen here:
go.philly.com/colin

IMO, we should treat our prisoners in the same way we would want our troops to be treated if captured by another nation. Bush seems to have lost sight of that concept altogether.

So, you think we should cut the heads off our prisoners?

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[kallend 2,108]

Quote

Quote

Powell's letter can be seen here:
go.philly.com/colin

IMO, we should treat our prisoners in the same way[RED] we would want [/RED]our troops to be treated if captured by another nation. Bush seems to have lost sight of that concept altogether.

So, you think we should cut the heads off our prisoners?

Max, I think you misread what I wrote. I'm sure you don't want our troops to be mistreated.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Gawain 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Powell's letter can be seen here:
go.philly.com/colin

IMO, we should treat our prisoners in the same way[RED] we would want [/RED]our troops to be treated if captured by another nation. Bush seems to have lost sight of that concept altogether.

So, you think we should cut the heads off our prisoners?

Max, I think you misread what I wrote. I'm sure you don't want our troops to be mistreated.

I didn't misread it per se, just "reversed" the context. Other than that, you're absolutely right. My point was that our detainees are being treated better than our troops have been treated.

I don't necessarily agree with the President's exact idea, but I understand the argument. Equally, I understand acutely Senator McCain's perspective. The Geneva Convention addresses the issues as it relates to "nations". When there is no "state" as a sponsor to one's actions against another "state", it is right that the laws be looked at, and changes proposed. The outcome will come out the way it needs to be, regardless of who proposes it.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[kallend 2,108]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Powell's letter can be seen here:
go.philly.com/colin

IMO, we should treat our prisoners in the same way[RED] we would want [/RED]our troops to be treated if captured by another nation. Bush seems to have lost sight of that concept altogether.

So, you think we should cut the heads off our prisoners?

Max, I think you misread what I wrote. I'm sure you don't want our troops to be mistreated.

I didn't misread it per se, just "reversed" the context. Other than that, you're absolutely right. My point was that our detainees are being treated better than our troops have been treated.

I don't necessarily agree with the President's exact idea, but I understand the argument. Equally, I understand acutely Senator McCain's perspective. The Geneva Convention addresses the issues as it relates to "nations". When there is no "state" as a sponsor to one's actions against another "state", it is right that the laws be looked at, and changes proposed. The outcome will come out the way it needs to be, regardless of who proposes it.

In WWII the Allies treated their prisoners far far better than the Japanese, and better than the Germans. It did us no harm then. I think it is a BIG mistake to use the behavior of those we despise as a guide to our own behavior.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Gawain 0]

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In WWII the Allies treated their prisoners far far better than the Japanese, and better than the Germans. It did us no harm then. I think it is a BIG mistake to use the behavior of those we despise as a guide to our own behavior.

Agreed, but again that is in the conduct of war between nations. I'm not going to condone torture any more than anyone else. Personally, I think a military tribunal for the detainees is not such a bad idea. It's better than many other alternatives out there.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[mnealtx 0]

Ok, fine.

Treat them as prisoners of war. No "objectionable" questioning. Also, no trials. After all, they're prisoners, not arrestees.

When there's a peace treaty between the US and AQ, negotiate release of the POW's.

Problem solved.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[kallend 2,108]

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Ok, fine.

Treat them as prisoners of war. No "objectionable" questioning. Also, no trials. After all, they're prisoners, not arrestees.

When there's a peace treaty between the US and AQ, negotiate release of the POW's.

Problem solved.

Which version do you prefer, the version written by a group of Republican Senators with extensive military experience and which is backed by a former chairman of the JCS? Or the Chickenhawk version from the White House which is opposed by the most senior JAGs from each of the four services?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.