kallend 2,070 #126 September 17, 2006 QuoteI don't think the Pope has really apologized; he (through spokesmen) has only "explained", and said that he finds this all very upsetting. Sometimes, in the interest of peace, if someone's offended at something you say, even if you didn't mean anything wrong, the best thing is just to UNEQUIVOCALLY say "Sorry" and move on. So why can't his staff stop giving out non-apology apologies? The offended parties want him - personally, not some spokesman - to say "I'm sorry", in just so many words. Is that really so hard? It took about 400 years to apologize for the treatment of Galileo, and I'm not sure they ever really apologized for the Inquisition. Don't hold your breath.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #127 September 17, 2006 QuoteWhen are they going to get it through their fat skulls that he has nothing to apologize for? Even assuming, for discussion, that that's correct, it misses the real point, which is: people were offended, and have asked for - not his head, but just a simple personal apology. Instead, we get waffle-words from spokesmen. If his mom were still alive, she'd probably say, "Oh for Pete's sake, Joey, just say you're sorry!" A couple days ago, he might have nipped this all in the bud by just saying into a microphone, "I really never meant to offend anyone, but since they are - I'm sorry." But now it's taken on a life of its own, and it's probably too late to quell this the easy way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rasmack 0 #128 September 17, 2006 QuoteQuoteWhen are they going to get it through their fat skulls that he has nothing to apologize for? Even assuming, for discussion, that that's correct, it misses the real point, which is: people were offended, and have asked for - not his head, but just a simple personal apology... ...by burning churches. I believe that he is a peace-loving man and he will do what he can to save the situation. It just seems extremely strange to me that quoting a 14th century figure on how you should not spread your religion with a sword is suddently disallowed when the example is islam. Noone would have noticed had he used the crusades as an example but apparently islam is too perfect to admit that it might at times have done wrong.HF #682, Team Dirty Sanchez #227 “I simply hate, detest, loathe, despise, and abhor redundancy.” - Not quite Oscar Wilde... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #129 September 17, 2006 Quote...by burning churches. A few assholes tossed a couple Molotovs. But some more credible sources (like the PM of Turkey) basically asked for a simple apology. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #130 September 17, 2006 The problems is the Fundies (on all sides) will never 'Move On'. Saying sorry for something is a bit like trying to uninvent something... cann't be done. . (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #131 September 17, 2006 QuoteIt just shows now that coddling muslims is the new PC. They just ned reasons to be angry, and they'll be mad about something else if not that. They've been becoming the most sensitive group in the world. As a christian, i've seen Christianity as the butt of numerous jokes and critisism across the spectrum of the media. You don't see me taking to the streets in violent protest every time I see something desrespectful to Jesus.It's just another form of terrorism that they are able to get the PC crowd to bow to. It's the equivalent of the brat riding in the shopping cart who starts throwing a tantrum as soon as they are in the candy aisle. Instead of taking a bag of candy, and smacking him in the side of the head one time to teach him a lesson, she just buys the candy to shut him up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #132 September 17, 2006 Ha...... finally we find something to aggree on Badly behaved kids it's the parents fault, not society or anyone else. . (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #133 September 17, 2006 Quote And because your a hetrosexual male I guess that makes you a rapist thenAbsolutely. I said call them what they are. The whole pedophile thing is just the PC way of avoiding the truth. After all, offending homosexuals with the truth is like offending Muslims with the truth. They both get indignant. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #134 September 17, 2006 QuotePost: Ha...... finally we find something to aggree on Badly behaved kids it's the parents fault, not society or anyone else.So, if the mullahs of the peace loving religion of Islam want to prove their point to the world, they need to put the smack down on the radicals. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #135 September 17, 2006 No, because they have no authority over them.... The Fundies are NOT related to the Mullahs/Pope/Other Religeous leader and so the analogy is not the same as Parent/Child one. . (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #136 September 17, 2006 QuoteNo, because they have no authority over them.... The Fundies are NOT related to the Mullahs/Pope/Other Religeous leader and so the analogy is not the same as Parent/Child one. Authority and influence might be two different things. If they can whip the masses into frenzy over some silly ass cartoon, they can surely calm them down to prove that they are a religion of peace. I personally think that Islam and the Arab race are inherently angry and violent. Peas in pod! At some point, the rest of the world has to tell them, "Sit down, and shut the hell up!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
micro 0 #137 September 17, 2006 QuoteQuoteI don't think the Pope has really apologized; he (through spokesmen) has only "explained", and said that he finds this all very upsetting. Sometimes, in the interest of peace, if someone's offended at something you say, even if you didn't mean anything wrong, the best thing is just to UNEQUIVOCALLY say "Sorry" and move on. So why can't his staff stop giving out non-apology apologies? The offended parties want him - personally, not some spokesman - to say "I'm sorry", in just so many words. Is that really so hard? It took about 400 years to apologize for the treatment of Galileo, and I'm not sure they ever really apologized for the Inquisition. Don't hold your breath. Once again I refer you to the writings of John Paul II. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #138 September 17, 2006 <> - 100% agree. <> - 100% disagree. They are people like all others .... Good & Bad. You wouldn't say the same thing (I presume) about say Americans although there are clearly evil people in your country too (otherwise the jails would be empty!). But if some of them are angry, you kind of have to ask why? Tarring a complete race of people with the same brush is disingenuous at best. . . (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,070 #139 September 17, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteI don't think the Pope has really apologized; he (through spokesmen) has only "explained", and said that he finds this all very upsetting. Sometimes, in the interest of peace, if someone's offended at something you say, even if you didn't mean anything wrong, the best thing is just to UNEQUIVOCALLY say "Sorry" and move on. So why can't his staff stop giving out non-apology apologies? The offended parties want him - personally, not some spokesman - to say "I'm sorry", in just so many words. Is that really so hard? It took about 400 years to apologize for the treatment of Galileo, and I'm not sure they ever really apologized for the Inquisition. Don't hold your breath. Once again I refer you to the writings of John Paul II. The Inquisition still exists. It has simply been renamed (1908, 1965, 1983) to its current incarnation, Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. When was the apology for the ill treatment of Galileo? 1992! As I recall, the apologies were NOT on behalf of the church or its leaders, just on behalf of its sinning members.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #140 September 17, 2006 What makes you think he SHOULD apologize, Kallend? And for what might he be apologizing? I don't think the onus is on anyone to apologize for the ignorance or hypersensitivity of anyone else. Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,070 #141 September 17, 2006 QuoteWhat makes you think he SHOULD apologize, Kallend? And for what might he be apologizing? I don't think the onus is on anyone to apologize for the ignorance or hypersensitivity of anyone else. Galileo was ignorant and hypersensitive? Inquisition victimes were hypersensitive? Have you been at the tequila already today?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
micro 0 #142 September 17, 2006 QuoteThe Inquisition still exists. It has simply been renamed (1908, 1965, 1983) to its current incarnation, Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. That is not quite right... you might want to do a little reading on that to fine tune your understanding. That is, if you are able to break through the incredibly deep seated hatred you have towards all things Catholic (somehow I doubt it). I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
micro 0 #143 September 17, 2006 QuoteQuoteWhat makes you think he SHOULD apologize, Kallend? And for what might he be apologizing? I don't think the onus is on anyone to apologize for the ignorance or hypersensitivity of anyone else. Galileo was ignorant and hypersensitive? Inquisition victimes were hypersensitive? Have you been at the tequila already today? Those aren't the people Vinny was referring to John, and you know it. Quit being so damned difficult. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #144 September 17, 2006 Here's the Pope's latest statement, delivered in person: "At this time I wish also to add that I am deeply sorry for the reactions in some countries to a few passages of my address," the pope told pilgrims Sunday. Is it an apology? (I'm sure many will label it as such.) Or is it more like saying, "I'm sorry for your reaction to what I said"? For good or ill, I make a living at (among many other things) recognizing waffle-wording, or carefully crafting it myself, so I think I know it when I see it. And I think I still see it. The Vatican senior staffers are not doing a very competent job on public relations and damage control on this one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #145 September 17, 2006 <> - 100% disagree. They are people like all others .... Good & Bad. You wouldn't say the same thing (I presume) about say Americans although there are clearly evil people in your country too (otherwise the jails would be empty!). But if some of them are angry, you kind of have to ask why? QuoteTarring a complete race of people with the same brush is disingenuous at best. Genesis 16:11-12 And the angel of the Lord said unto her, Behold, thou art with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the Lord hath heard thy affliction. And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man and every man's hand against him. It's in their blood. they just can't help it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #146 September 17, 2006 <> - BS : No it's not WE ARE ALL THE SAME - read my DNA. <> - We're done here Bye. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #147 September 17, 2006 QuoteThe Vatican senior staffers are not doing a very competent job on public relations and damage control on this one.Why should the worry about damage control. The Pope may have revealed his attitude about Muslims, but the Muslims have definately tipped their hand. Not that we haven't seen it before. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
micro 0 #148 September 17, 2006 QuoteQuoteThe Vatican senior staffers are not doing a very competent job on public relations and damage control on this one.Why should the worry about damage control. The Pope may have revealed his attitude about Muslims, but the Muslims have definately tipped their hand. Not that we haven't seen it before. He wasn't revealing his attitudes about Muslims AT ALL!!! Go back and read the speech. He was decrying the wedding of violence and religion. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,070 #149 September 17, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteWhat makes you think he SHOULD apologize, Kallend? And for what might he be apologizing? I don't think the onus is on anyone to apologize for the ignorance or hypersensitivity of anyone else. Galileo was ignorant and hypersensitive? Inquisition victimes were hypersensitive? Have you been at the tequila already today? Those aren't the people Vinny was referring to John, and you know it. Quit being so damned difficult. In that case, why was he responding to MY post?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,070 #150 September 17, 2006 QuoteHere's the Pope's latest statement, delivered in person: "At this time I wish also to add that I am deeply sorry for the reactions in some countries to a few passages of my address," the pope told pilgrims Sunday. Is it an apology? (I'm sure many will label it as such.) Or is it more like saying, "I'm sorry for your reaction to what I said"? . I'm sorry for their reactions to what he said too too. He should have apologized for being a complete twit in saying such a thing in the first place. And they should apologize for over-reacting. A POX on all of them.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
