Bring it on!

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Anyone reading the entire thread will realize you are trying to fool them. I will admit I was wrong about the long term cost as long as you will admit you had no clue either.

You don't have to admit anything, your posts are archived for all to read who are interested.

I don't have to admit anything either. My posts are also archived for all to read who are interested.

The interested reader will quickly discern who has been more accurate, from the WMD lies and the AQ connection lies in 2003, to the costs, all the way to the current quagmire.

Yep, apparently the CIA and most Dems were lying about WMD's. So was Clinton, Albright, Berger and almost anyone else in Govt. in the 1990's. So was most intelligence agency's in the world. So was SH apparently since he thought he had them, too.

I'm trying to remember what you said about Rove, Bush and Libby.

[kallend 2,106]

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Anyone reading the entire thread will realize you are trying to fool them. I will admit I was wrong about the long term cost as long as you will admit you had no clue either.

You don't have to admit anything, your posts are archived for all to read who are interested.

I don't have to admit anything either. My posts are also archived for all to read who are interested.

The interested reader will quickly discern who has been more accurate, from the WMD lies and the AQ connection lies in 2003, to the costs, all the way to the current quagmire.

Yep, apparently the CIA and most Dems were lying about WMD's. So was Clinton, Albright, Berger and almost anyone else in Govt. in the 1990's. So was most intelligence agency's in the world. So was SH apparently since he thought he had them, too.

.

Misery loves company.
Don't like being proven wrong, do you?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Gawain 0]

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Misery loves company.
Don't like being proven wrong, do you?

I think it's more the perception that those who stand on the other side of the debate behave as if they were never wrong.

The shrill from the "left" has been from a position of "see we told you so" when in fact, everyone was singing in unison.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[kallend 2,106]

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Misery loves company.
Don't like being proven wrong, do you?

I think it's more the perception that those who stand on the other side of the debate behave as if they were never wrong.

The shrill from the "left" has been from a position of "see we told you so" when in fact, everyone was singing in unison.

Wrong. I wasn't. Billvon wasn't. Quade wasn't - to name but three from around here. And I very strongly suspect that those that were singing along were doing so in response to the misinformation coming out of the White House.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Gawain 0]

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Wrong. I wasn't. Billvon wasn't. Quade wasn't - to name but three from around here. And I very strongly suspect that those that were singing along were doing so in response to the misinformation coming out of the White House.

I'm painting with a broader brush than simply dz.com. I'm also drawing on a longer timeline than from 2001. Throughout the 1990s, the consensus was nearly unanimous. To this day, there are several prominant democrats in Congress who stand by their vote.

There is a difference between misinformation and wrong information.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[kallend 2,106]

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Wrong. I wasn't. Billvon wasn't. Quade wasn't - to name but three from around here. And I very strongly suspect that those that were singing along were doing so in response to the misinformation coming out of the White House.

I'm painting with a broader brush than simply dz.com. I'm also drawing on a longer timeline than from 2001. Throughout the 1990s, the consensus was nearly unanimous. To this day, there are several prominant democrats in Congress who stand by their vote.

There is a difference between misinformation and wrong information.

"The Buck Stops Here" was on the President's desk, not some junior senator's.

The intelligence manipulation prior to the invasion has been very well documented by the Senate Intelligence Committee.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[livetofall 0]

I like your humor, I bet you also belong to a DZ to a group that goes to other small DZs, mostly jumpers that are older that give you nicknames that are either offensive or jab a little because your all friends and nobody takes anything seriously or personal. I really love the iraqi oil qoute I cant wait for 13k jumps to be $8 also..Just goto Brazil or Venezuela! I like how the guy talking has real white hands in the video..he really has a nice Iraqi accent too

www.911missinglinks.com the definitive truth of 9/11..the who and why, not how

You can handle the TRUTH www.theforbiddentruth.net

[livetofall 0]

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So, it was about the oil all along then?

Oil was definitely a factor.

Remember when you wrote this, on 3/2/2003?

"I also get a kick out of those who whine about the cost of going to war and how much the long term cost will be.
After the Gulf War in 1991, 80% of the 80 Billion the U.S. spent was reimbursed by Kuwait and Saudi Arabia.
Remember, Iraq is not without natural resources. I'm sure going to enjoy filling up my SUV with that $.49 per gallon Iraqi oil.

Hmmmm......... I kinda like that idea."

Wow, you are so prescient. Bush's war has been really a bargain for the taxpayers, and those low gas prices...

OK thats it.. for all f*&(ng liberals that want to go on this...yeah maybe it is about oil. what if it is? I suppose all you liberals still hang out with someone you helped in a big way alot of their life and they turn around and screwed ya.
Who invented the internal combustion engine automobile and in what country?
Cmon know you liberals can answer that one.
What the hell was this worthless sticky black goo until then. Do you realize how much we helped the arabic countries, our tecnical minds to make their Palace? Ever been to Saudia Arabia? Someskydivers have..you know who i am talking about. They are rich to where kids buy a Lambi and crash it , then trash the next. Fact is oil should be less than water to us. Without us, and Henry Ford all of them would still be using camel shit for firewood, now ony a few do, like the oppressed in Iraq. Your right on one point, this war should have never happened, either should the first one when Suddam invaded Kuwait. Every single Jihad instead of calling us the devil should have said..OK thats what happens when we bugger another oil supplying country. Bin Laden, the ungrateful cocksucker would have never had family riches if it wasnt for white, American/anglo whatever he wants to hate ,men, that found a use for that worthless black goo. So while you liberals want to say conseravtives are war mongers, why the hell dont you see us as fighting back on someone that betrayed us in the least. Thats if this was about oil. I dont know why liberals dont understand that arabs only knew how to herd animals and make sword and carpets. Look at how we just GIVE food away, we dont charge a high rate for wheat to a country because its in DEMAND...ooh that gotta hurt!

www.911missinglinks.com the definitive truth of 9/11..the who and why, not how

You can handle the TRUTH www.theforbiddentruth.net

[Skyrad 0]

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Misery loves company.
Don't like being proven wrong, do you?

I think it's more the perception that those who stand on the other side of the debate behave as if they were never wrong.

The shrill from the "left" has been from a position of "see we told you so" when in fact, everyone was singing in unison.

Simply not correct. The current situation was predicted years ago, and I was have always been against the invasion.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=463216#463216

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[jakee 1,562]

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Who invented the internal combustion engine automobile and in what country....

Without us, and Henry Ford.....

Wrong.

Try researching in a slightly less US-centric direction.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[billvon 3,068]

>yeah maybe it is about oil. what if it is?

Cool! At least some admit it.

>Who invented the internal combustion engine automobile and
>in what country?

Karl Benz. Germany.

>Do you realize how much we helped the arabic countries, our
>tecnical minds to make their Palace?

Hmm. The invention of algebra was probably more fundamental to palace-building than the invention of the car, especially since those palaces were around long before the car was.

>So while you liberals want to say conseravtives are war mongers,
>why the hell dont you see us as fighting back on someone that
>betrayed us in the least.

And who betrayed the people who gave us algebra, so we could design all those nifty SUV's?

[Amazon 7]

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Who invented the internal combustion engine automobile and in what country?

OOPS.. since you seem to think it was here in the good ole USA.. perhaps you MAY want to read this little tidbit...

Then get back to all of us conservatives AND liberals


http://inventors.about.com/library/weekly/aacarsgasa.htm

The very first self-powered road vehicles were powered by steam engines and by that definition Nicolas Joseph Cugnot of France built the first automobile in 1769 - recognized by the British Royal Automobile Club and the Automobile Club de France as being the first. So why do so many history books say that the automobile was invented by either Gottlieb Daimler or Karl Benz? It is because both Daimler and Benz invented highly successful and practical gasoline-powered vehicles that ushered in the age of modern automobiles. Daimler and Benz invented cars that looked and worked like the cars we use today. However, it is unfair to say that either man invented "the" automobile.
History of the Internal Combustion Engine - The Heart of the Automobile
An internal combustion engine is any engine that uses the explosive combustion of fuel to push a piston within a cylinder - the piston's movement turns a crankshaft that then turns the car wheels via a chain or a drive shaft. The different types of fuel commonly used for car combustion engines are gasoline (or petrol), diesel, and kerosene.

A brief outline of the history of the internal combustion engine includes the following highlights:

1680 - Dutch physicist, Christian Huygens designed (but never built) an internal combustion engine that was to be fueled with gunpowder.
1807 - Francois Isaac de Rivaz of Switzerland invented an internal combustion engine that used a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen for fuel. Rivaz designed a car for his engine - the first internal combustion powered automobile. However, his was a very unsuccessful design.
1824 - English engineer, Samuel Brown adapted an old Newcomen steam engine to burn gas, and he used it to briefly power a vehicle up Shooter's Hill in London.
1858 - Belgian-born engineer, Jean Joseph Étienne Lenoir invented and patented (1860) a double-acting, electric spark-ignition internal combustion engine fueled by coal gas. In 1863, Lenoir attached an improved engine (using petroleum and a primitive carburetor) to a three-wheeled wagon that managed to complete an historic fifty-mile road trip. (See image at top)
1862 - Alphonse Beau de Rochas, a French civil engineer, patented but did not build a four-stroke engine (French patent #52,593, January 16, 1862).
1864 - Austrian engineer, Siegfried Marcus*, built a one-cylinder engine with a crude carburetor, and attached his engine to a cart for a rocky 500-foot drive. Several years later, Marcus designed a vehicle that briefly ran at 10 mph that a few historians have considered as the forerunner of the modern automobile by being the world's first gasoline-powered vehicle (however, read conflicting notes below).
1873 - George Brayton, an American engineer, developed an unsuccessful two-stroke kerosene engine (it used two external pumping cylinders). However, it was considered the first safe and practical oil engine.
1866 - German engineers, Eugen Langen and Nikolaus August Otto improved on Lenoir's and de Rochas' designs and invented a more efficient gas engine.
1876 - Nikolaus August Otto invented and later patented a successful four-stroke engine, known as the "Otto cycle".
1876 - The first successful two-stroke engine was invented by Sir Dougald Clerk.
1883 - French engineer, Edouard Delamare-Debouteville, built a single-cylinder four-stroke engine that ran on stove gas. It is not certain if he did indeed build a car, however, Delamare-Debouteville's designs were very advanced for the time - ahead of both Daimler and Benz in some ways at least on paper.
1885 - Gottlieb Daimler invented what is often recognized as the prototype of the modern gas engine - with a vertical cylinder, and with gasoline injected through a carburetor (patented in 1887). Daimler first built a two-wheeled vehicle the "Reitwagen" (Riding Carriage) with this engine and a year later built the world's first four-wheeled motor vehicle.
1886 - On January 29, Karl Benz received the first patent (DRP No. 37435) for a gas-fueled car.
1889 - Daimler built an improved four-stroke engine with mushroom-shaped valves and two V-slant cylinders.
1890 - Wilhelm Maybach built the first four-cylinder, four-stroke engine.
Further Reading - The Mechanics of Internal Combustion Engines - What is a 2-stroke? 4-stroke?
Engine design and car design were integral activities, almost all of the engine designers mentioned above also designed cars, and a few went on to become major manufacturers of automobiles. All of these inventors and more made notable improvements in the evolution of the internal combustion vehicles.
The Importance of Nicolaus Otto
One of the most important landmarks in engine design comes from Nicolaus August Otto who in 1876 invented an effective gas motor engine. Otto built the first practical four-stroke internal combustion engine called the "Otto Cycle Engine," and as soon as he had completed his engine, he built it into a motorcycle. Otto's contributions were very historically significant, it was his four-stoke engine that was universally adopted for all liquid-fueled automobiles going forward. (Learn more about Nicolaus Otto)

The Importance of Karl Benz
In 1885, German mechanical engineer, Karl Benz designed and built the world's first practical automobile to be powered by an internal-combustion engine. On January 29, 1886, Benz received the first patent (DRP No. 37435) for a gas-fueled car. It was a three-wheeler; Benz built his first four-wheeled car in 1891. Benz & Cie., the company started by the inventor, became the world's largest manufacturer of automobiles by 1900. Benz was the first inventor to integrate an internal combustion engine with a chassis - designing both together. (Learn more about Karl Benz)

The Importance of Gottlieb Daimler
In 1885, Gottlieb Daimler (together with his design partner Wilhelm Maybach) took Otto's internal combustion engine a step further and patented what is generally recognized as the prototype of the modern gas engine. Daimler's connection to Otto was a direct one; Daimler worked as technical director of Deutz Gasmotorenfabrik, which Nikolaus Otto co-owned in 1872. There is some controversy as to who built the first motorcycle Otto or Daimler.

The 1885 Daimler-Maybach engine was small, lightweight, fast, used a gasoline-injected carburetor, and had a vertical cylinder. The size, speed, and efficiency of the engine allowed for a revolution in car design. On March 8, 1886, Daimler took a stagecoach and adapted it to hold his engine, thereby designing the world's first four-wheeled automobile. Daimler is considered the first inventor to have invented a practical internal-combustion engine.

In 1889, Daimler invented a V-slanted two cylinder, four-stroke engine with mushroom-shaped valves. Just like Otto's 1876 engine, Daimler's new engine set the basis for all car engines going forward. Also in 1889, Daimler and Maybach built their first automobile from the ground up, they did not adapt another purpose vehicle as they had always been done previously. The new Daimler automobile had a four-speed transmission and obtained speeds of 10 mph.

Daimler founded the Daimler Motoren-Gesellschaft in 1890 to manufacture his designs. Eleven years later, Wilhelm Maybach designed the Mercedes automobile. (Learn more about Gottlieb Daimler & Wilhelm Maybach)

*If Siegfried Marcus built his second car in 1875 and it was as claimed, it would have been the first vehicle powered by a four-cycle engine and the first to use gasoline as a fuel, the first having a carburetor for a gasoline engine and the first having a magneto ignition. However, the only existing evidence indicates that the vehicle was built circa 1888/89 - too late to be first

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Isn't everything invented in America?

[freethefly 6]

Oh, come on now, Henry Ford? The world could had done without him. He embraced Nazism, dispised organized labor and hated Jews with a passion. The world would had moved along just fine without his kind.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[livetofall 0]

Well Davinci came up with the flying machine also , but how long before we flew. He despised organized labor? Could be. The whole point is that until his mass production of the internal combustion engine, there would have been no use for foreing oil. None. I guess I dont take this squabble as serious and dont try to hunt down counter facts, if they are even actual facts at all, on the internet. We can go to the Alexander Bell conspiracy too, why not? Im only writing on these paasing time while injured. Damn morphine keeps you awake. At least i didnt fill a page. So did Hans Schrueber of the first 3 cylinder, or Milli Vannili the maker of the first refrigerated ice cream truck, help the middle east find a use for their black goo?

www.911missinglinks.com the definitive truth of 9/11..the who and why, not how

You can handle the TRUTH www.theforbiddentruth.net

[Darius11 12]

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The truth of what is really going on in Iraq brought to you in English by the media platoon of the Islamic Jihad Army.

Stirring stuff.

I would have been rather more persuaded by this if the "Iraqi Resistance" had been active during Saddam Hussein's rule.

One wonders what the "Iraqi Resistance" reaction would be if The Coalition were to say: "Okay. Sorry. We should never have invaded. Give us a week to release the Ba'ath Party leadership, re-instate them and rearm them to the point before we invaded, then we'll leave and lift the sanctions! It'll be just like we were never here."

Wouldn't this be the quickest way to rebuild a peaceful & stable Iraq?
Mike.

Your forgetting we supported Sadam just as we did OBL.

Our list of questionable deeds is very long.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[livetofall 0]

I forgot to mention.. who gives a shit about 1769? your talling about steam...they didnt use gasoline..If we relied on gasoline to make steam, the railways woud have been years behind. If your going to counterpoint me..at least keep it to my point of Middle east oil...Bozo the Clown could have came up with steam or gasoline, I dont care. Who started the big kick for black gold? maybe you have the time to search and find out

www.911missinglinks.com the definitive truth of 9/11..the who and why, not how

You can handle the TRUTH www.theforbiddentruth.net

[billvon 3,068]

>Well Davinci came up with the flying machine also , but how long before we flew.

DaVinci came up with a flying machine; the Wright Brothers flew for the first time. Heck, DaVinci came up with a compressionless internal combustion engine in 1509, and Eugenio Barsanti patented an internal combustion engine in 1854. It wasn't until Benz put them all together that we had the first internal-combustion-engine car.

Ford didn't come up with anything really new. He just did it more cheaply.

>The whole point is that until his mass production of the
>internal combustion engine, there would have been no use for
>foreing oil. None.

Even well after that. Until about 1960, the great majority of our oil came from the US. Then we hit the US Hubbert Peak around 1970, and our production has been declining ever since.

Back in Henry's time, we had a lot of choices. There were steam cars that could burn anything, including wood. There were electric cars. My grandfather's first job was fixing electric delivery trucks. We chose internal-combustion vehicles which needed some pretty specific fuels. Our decision; we should accept the consequences of our decisions.

>I guess I dont take this squabble as serious and dont try to
>hunt down counter facts . . .

Well, this is Speaker's Corner. Facts are definitely optional.

[miked10270 0]

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...Damn morphine keeps you awake...

Evidently that's not all it does.

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...help the middle east find a use for their black goo?

That would have been the Royal Navy, who decided to shift from coal-fired-steam to oil-fired-steam based on the relative costs & availability of oil around the empire. An oil-fired boiler used between 1/2 & 1/3rd of the fuel by weight, giving ships far greater range & endurance. Oil-Fired-Steam was also a lot less labour intensive.

That decision was made around 1880 if I remember correctly. Hence the discovery of Middle-East Oil (in Iraq) in 1908 was of vital interest to the British Empire which used & owned the Suez Canal & used Aden as a major bunkering stop.

Mike.

PS: Isn't the Wright Brothers claim to the first powered flight in some dispute now? That'd leave America as the inventors of nothing. Still... They copy stuff almost as well as the Chinese.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[Amazon 7]

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I forgot to mention.. who gives a shit about 1769? your talling about steam...they didnt use gasoline..If we relied on gasoline to make steam, the railways woud have been years behind. If your going to counterpoint me..at least keep it to my point of Middle east oil...Bozo the Clown could have came up with steam or gasoline, I dont care. Who started the big kick for black gold? maybe you have the time to search and find out

Youre premise aqbout Ford... DUDE.. that is laughable... you did not READ the rest of that did you... you asked for WHO invented the Internal Combustion.... guess what... Last time I checked Steam sure as hell is not EXTERNAL...... so if you want Gas or Diesel Power....... OOOOPS.... it was those smart dudes in Germany Daimler unt Benz.


I know its hard.. but you have LOTS of time on your hands... perhaps YOU can go do some research...for yourself.

[kallend 2,106]

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Im only writing on these paasing time while injured. Damn morphine keeps you awake. At least i didnt fill a page?

The nature of your posts starts to make sense now that you've told us you write them while under the influence of drugs.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[freethefly 6]

For all that Ford was (or not) he did have some amazing visions of the future. Unfortunately the good ones were not realized.

Ford And Deisel Never
Intended Cars
To Use Gasoline
8-15-5

Henry Ford's first Model-T was built to run on hemp gasoline and the CAR ITSELF WAS CONSTRUCTED FROM HEMP! On his large estate, Ford was photographed among his hemp fields. The car, 'grown from the soil,' had hemp plastic panels whose impact strength was 10 times stronger than steel; Popular Mechanics, 1941.

http://www.illuminati-news.com/marijuana-conspiracy.htm

Rudolf Diesel, the inventor of the diesel engine, designed it to run on vegetable and seed oils like hemp; he actually ran the thing on peanut oil for the 1900 World's Fair. Henry Ford used hemp to not only construct cars but also fuel them.

As an alternative to methanol, hemp has at least one glowing report: the plant produces up to four times more cellulose per acre than trees. And a hemp crop grows a little quicker than a forest.

As for an alternative to petroleum...

Hemp grows like mad from border to border in America; so shortages are unlikely. And, unlike petrol, unless we run out of soil, hemp is renewable.

Growing and harvesting the stuff has much less environmental impact than procuring oil.

Hemp fuel is biodegradable; so oil spills become fertilizer not eco-catastrophes.

Hemp fuel does not contribute to sulfur dioxide air poisoning.

Other noxious emissions like carbon monoxide and hydrocarbons are radically slashed by using "biodiesel.

Hemp fuel is nontoxic and only a mild skin irritant; anybody who,s ever cleaned out an old carburetor with gasoline can confirm the same is not true for petrol.

Growing hemp for fuel would be a tremendous boon for American farmers and the agricultural industry, as opposed to people like, say, the Bush family.

And that,s why hemp might not go anywhere as a fuel alternative. Oil interests are big and donate likewise to politicians, and selling a man on an idea that will cost him more than he,ll benefit requires an amazingly skilled orator -- or a gun. Unfortunately, unless you,re the federal government, gunpoint conversions are usually illegal. Ergo, PR is about the best bet right now.

There are many people working hard on this front, including the Hemp Car and its intrepid crew. Currently ginning up for a trans-America evangelism tour, the Hemp Car plans to spread the good word of hemp-fuel viability at stops in both the U.S. and Canada.

For whatever good it will do, they should make sure to stop by Washington, D.C., and have a word with President George W. Bush. The current oil crisis and our nation,s dependency on sometimes-persnickety foreign sources might find the new chief executive with an open mind to fuel sources other than Texas tea -- regardless of his oily bank accounts. And, while salvaging his dad's legacy is not Goal 1 for Dubya, it might also help him look more forward thinking in terms of energy policy and the environment.

Of course, hemp fuel may never take off. It might dry up like all those hemp crops left unattended after the feds banned their cultivation in the 1930s. One way or the other, Bush should consider freeing up the market to innovate with alternative fuels like hemp oil -- it couldn,t hurt, and it stands the chance to help. In so doing, he,ll end his term with a far better moniker than the "environmental president." For, if other policy decisions he makes go in a similar direction, we can perhaps call him the "free-market president."

http://www.rockhawk.com/gasoline_and_hemp.htm

Fuel of the Future

When Henry Ford told a New York Times reporter that ethyl alcohol was "the fuel of the future" in 1925, he was expressing an opinion that was widely shared in the automotive industry. "The fuel of the future is going to come from fruit like that sumach out by the road, or from apples, weeds, sawdust -- almost anything," he said. "There is fuel in every bit of vegetable matter that can be fermented. There's enough alcohol in one year's yield of an acre of potatoes to drive the machinery necessary to cultivate the fields for a hundred years."

Ford recognized the utility of the hemp plant. He constructed a car of resin stiffened hemp fiber, and even ran the car on ethanol made from hemp. Ford knew that hemp could produce vast economic resources if widely cultivated.

Ford's optimistic appraisal of cellulose and crop based ethyl alcohol fuel can be read in several ways. First, it can be seen as an oblique jab at a competitor. General Motors had come to considerable grief that summer of 1925 over another octane boosting fuel called tetra-ethyl lead, and government officials had been quietly in touch with Ford engineers about alternatives to leaded gasoline additives. Secondly, by 1925 the American farms that Ford loved were facing an economic crisis that would later intensify with the depression. Although the causes of the crisis were complex, one possible solution was seen in creating new markets for farm products. With Ford's financial and political backing, the idea of opening up industrial markets for farmers would be translated into a broad movement for scientific research in agriculture that would be labelled "Farm Chemurgy." 2

Why Henry's plans were delayed for more than a half century:

Ethanol has been known as a fuel for many decades. Indeed, when Henry Ford designed the Model T, it was his expectation that ethanol, made from renewable biological materials, would be a major automobile fuel. However, gasoline emerged as the dominant transportation fuel in the early twentieth century because of the ease of operation of gasoline engines with the materials then available for engine construction, a growing supply of cheaper petroleum from oil field discoveries, and intense lobbying by petroleum companies for the federal government to maintain steep alcohol taxes. Many bills proposing a National energy program that made use of Americas vast agricultural resources (for fuel production) were killed by smear campaigns launched by vested petroleum interests. One noteworthy claim put forth by petrol companies was that the U.S. government's plans "robbed taxpayers to make farmers rich".

http://www.hempcar.org/ford.shtml

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[jakee 1,562]

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you asked for WHO invented the Internal Combustion.... guess what... Last time I checked Steam sure as hell is not EXTERNAL

And now your fact checking is even worse.
Combustion is the operative word, are you going to try and tell me the fire is inside the water/ steam system?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[freethefly 6]

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you asked for WHO invented the Internal Combustion.... guess what... Last time I checked Steam sure as hell is not EXTERNAL

And now your fact checking is even worse.
Combustion is the operative word, are you going to try and tell me the fire is inside the water/ steam system?

Actually steam engines are External Combustion Heat Engines

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[jakee 1,562]

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Actually steam engines are External Combustion Heat Engines

You do realise that was the exact same point I just made right?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?