Animal Cruelty

[PLFXpert 0]

Here we go; I'm opening my can of worms.

Here's the first submission:

Butterball Turkey Video



In future posts I will cite many additional, credible sources other than PETA, however PETA just happened to be the one w/ actual video footage.

This Thanksgiving (if you lika ze meata) when you purchase your turkey, please look for a "certified humane" label. There is almost always at least one brand available at every local grocer.

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[rehmwa 2]

Not me, turkey killed my brother in 'Nam. I want him to suffer before we stuff him.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[micro 0]

I didn't watch this video, but I will. And a whole new world is starting to open up to me, about large corporate farms, the inhumane treatment of animals, how we want our little hobby farm to be different, etc.

For example, these two calves we have... one is ours, the other is our neighbors. He doesn't have enough land/pasture to have one, so he keeps his w/ ours and in exchange, he buys the grain over the winter months when the cows can't be purely grass fed. Well, he came over w/ this protein mix for the cows to help them grow faster... I looked at the ingredients, it has ground up pig in it. To me, that's just bad and unnatural to feed cows pig. That isn't part of their natural diet and it shouldn't be done.

Also, we won't take these cows to a butcher whos doesn't follow humane practices for killing them. There is no point in making these creatures go through unnecessary pain and suffering. It's not consistent w/ our values.

Now, I'm certainly no fan of PETA. To me it stands for People Eating Tasty Animals. I think the PETA folks take it too far. But I agree IN PRINCIPLE at least w/ some of their mission. Animals should'nt be abused and misused. We will certainly do our part on our farm to raise natural beef and any other live stock that respects their lives, that doesn't use growth accelerants nor introduces all sort of unnatural crap into their lives/diets, etc. We also don't believe in couping them up in small pens where they wade in their own feces for hours on end. They have 16 acres to roam free and BE grazing animals, the way God intended.

I miss Lee.
And JP.
And Chris. And...

[sundevil777 102]

Q: What are some of the perks of this job?

A: You get to do whatever you want to a turkey, here are some ideas...

Am I the only one that thought about the cow-like animal on the Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy that was able to tell you it looked forward to being eaten?

edit - I haven't eaten meat since '80.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[PLFXpert 0]

Smiles to everything you said.

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Now, I'm certainly no fan of PETA (and about 10x/month to other human organizations). To me it stands for People Eating Tasty Animals. I think the PETA folks take it too far. But I agree IN PRINCIPLE at least w/ some of their mission. Animals should'nt be abused and misused.

I agree!

I donate the minimum membership fee to PETA (and about 10 x as much to other humane organizations). Unfortunately actually seeing the horrific photos and video--ie: "shock value"--is all that gets through to some people. But, I myself disagree with some of PETA's methods of getting a point across.

I can't deny the major changes they've influenced and pioneered, however. Certainly, for someone who wants to learn, PETA can provide a wealth of information and credible sources. You can even fact-check their sources first and form your own opinion; as I often do.

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[Shawndiver 0]

Well, there are some signs of progress as well...

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/02/us/politics/02pets.html?ex=1317441600&en=db14c9d4be4bf4d3&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss

_________________

[PLFXpert 0]

Oh definitely!
But, the link you referenced has nothing to do with Butterball turkey; a company that could use some major reform (as many, many others). Igorance is bliss--if one doesn't know about it then they can't/won't opt for another choice.

I will also post happy updates as well. I wanted to do so in the same thread but figured the negative stuff would have to stay in SC. So I might have two threads; a happy one in Bonfire and the stuff that makes me so in SC.

At the encouragement of others I've decided to throw it out there and post some of the info I read & research. I will update every so often; meaning this thread might be resurrected in a couple months with another link & horrible video.

I do what I can; like The Young Man & the Starfish.

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[lawrocket 3]

Ingrid Newkirk was one of the founders of PETA and its current president. Your timing of this post is interesting, for I was going to post about her (and therefore implicitly PETA's) recent written statement which calls for a holocaust on pit bulls.

Here it is:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/06/08/EDGDLD4G1S1.DTL

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From California to New York, many shelters have enacted policies requiring the automatic destruction of the huge and ever-growing number of "pits" they encounter. This news shocks and outrages the compassionate dog-lover.

Here's another shocker: People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, the very organization that is trying to get you to denounce the killing of chickens for the table, foxes for fur or frogs for dissection, supports the shelters' pit-bull policy, albeit with reluctance. We further encourage a ban on breeding pit bulls.

So, here PETA is actively attempting to make a specis of animal extinct, through mandatory slaying and through a givernment ban on breeding. Sure, it's evil to kill a baby seal, but pit bulls should be destroyed completely and forever.

Why? First, the pit bull was a human breed. However, this is much like any number of other dogs and animals.

Second, "pit bulls are perhaps the most abused dogs on the planet." Why? Because they are the choice of drug dealers and pimps and favorites of the poor and underclass. (I really could not believe what I was reading there - implying that it's the rabble who would have such a dog, and that such low class people are unworthy. And I wonder whether she votes Republican. What are royal snob!) She seems to think that only pit bulls are mistreated like that. I find her viewpoint despicable.

Her third reason is that it is naive to suggest a breeding ban or forced shelter euthanasia, because children get mauled. Does she realize that all types of dogs maul people?

At the end, though, I found her real reason for doing what she does. This here is the choice snippet - I've added emphasis:

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People who genuinely care about dogs won't be affected by a ban on pit- bull breeding. They can go to the shelter and save one of the countless other breeds and lovable mutts sitting on death row.

So, there we have it! Pit bulls aren't lovable like other animals! Therefore, they are worthy of being destroyed.

So, how can PETA be at all defensible. What is ethical about destroying a species of animal? What does it say about PETA when it's president and co-founder believes that some animals are not worth saving because they are man-made breeds, abused, unlovable, and kept only by vile inner city people?

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[lisamariewillbe 1]

Ive no comments because I am anti peta except for this ....

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finger into a turkey's cloaca (vagina).

One worker told an investigator: "If you jump on their stomachs right, they'll pop ... or their insides will come out of their [rectums]

A birds vagina and rectum is the same not two seperate holes as this article seemed to imply .... hence why its called a cloaca.

I worked at Tyson for a bit.... I still eat their chicken and they have a similar (if not the same) process as butterball.... maybe thats why the turkeys so juicy

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[lawrocket 3]

Oh! I just checked PETA's website! HYPOCRISY AT ITS FINEST!

Look here. http://www.peta.org/ Scroll down to "Featured stories." What do we see?

"ANIMALS ARE NOT OURS TO EXPLOIT
Victory: Governor Schwarzenegger Signs Bill to Restrict Cruel, Dangerous Chaining of Dogs!
A bill that would help make California a safer place for dogs and the public has been signed into law by Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger."

The story says tethering "is cruel because it deprives these highly social pack animals of proper socialization and often leaves them unable to reach whatever food, water, and shelter they've been provided. The dogs grow aggressively protective of their tiny spaces and often attack children and other people who come near them."

Whoa! Last week, PETA's president said that pit bulls need chains because "(they easily break regular collars and harnesses)." WHOA! So, they need to do this to help public and animal safety,

Hypocrisy.

And the worst? What's the photo they use to demonstrate this plight?http://www.helpinganimals.com/photos/santana.jpg

Yes! It's Santana the pit bull. If PETA had it's way, Santana would be destroyed, and no more Santanas would ever inhabit the earth. It's an atrocity what happened to Santana. It's also disturbing to suggest that an entire species be wiped out because of what happened to Santana.

It is thoroughly disgusting to me, especially in light of PETA's main page statement(bottom middle of home page) that "PETA believes that animals have rights and deserve to have their best interests taken into consideration, regardless of whether they are useful to humans."

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[DJL 235]

That actually made me hungry. I just started thinking about turkey and stuffing.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[PLFXpert 0]

Same article by Ingrid E. Newkirk: "It can easily be argued that as long as there are any dogs who are sitting homeless on death row in shelters, no dogs need to be bred. But, since pit bulls are the most abused dogs..."

I'm not going to spend my time refuting the PETA opposition. I conceded myself that I do not agree with some of their tactics.

Pit Bulls have nothing to do with what I chose to post about and once again used a PETA link b/c they were the only ones who, in addition to the facts, provided a video.

I also mentioned I would provide numerous links from various sources (credible) in addition to PETA.

Rather than refute what I posted, you bashed PETA. Well, OK.

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[Michele 1]

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is cruel because it deprives these highly social pack animals of proper socialization and often leaves them unable to reach whatever food, water, and shelter they've been provided. The dogs grow aggressively protective of their tiny spaces and often attack children and other people who come near them."

That will apply to any animal who is chained, ignored, and abused...not solely pits. Do the same to a chihuahua, or a horse, or an elephant...you'll get an aggressive, uncontrollable pet.

There are quite a few pits in my neighborhood. One kid lets his take him skating...it's great to watch. Another belongs to a mother who regularly takes her boy in his stroller when they go on a walk. And a third patiently waits for his owners outside the grocery store. I've interacted with all these animals, and have not once been concerned for my safety...Joker thinks it's fun to see me; he gets all wiggly and happy 'cause he knows I'll love on him (he's the skating one).

I was mauled by a herd of poodles. I don't blame the entire breed. I was bit on the hiney by two dobies - and in that instance, it was completely my fault (and I knew so at the time).

Pits are big, strong dogs. So are Newfies and Labs and St. Bernards. But only pits get aggressive when penned/chained? Oh please. All social animals will...nothing to do with their breed, and everything to do with their treatment.

PETA is weird, often criminal, and cruel to species...and I just don't like them at all. The local rescue groups get what cash I can afford; PETA will not ever see a penny that I've earned.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[kelpdiver 2]

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I can't deny the major changes they've influenced and pioneered, however. Certainly, for someone who wants to learn, PETA can provide a wealth of information and credible sources. You can even fact-check their sources first and form your own opinion; as I often do.

I'm sure al Queda and its media outlets offer some credible information too. But it doesn't change the fact that they are a terrorist organization.

PETA falls into the same category. The best depicition of their pathetic 'animals before humans' stance comes from Futurama (episode Popplers).

[ryoder 1,590]

Penn & Teller have a show on Showtime called "Bullshit". I've been renting DVD's of the show via NetFlix. One episode was about PETA. It was an eye-opener. They turned up quite a few amazing bits of hypocrisy in that organization.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[sundevil777 102]

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Pits are big, strong dogs. So are Newfies and Labs and St. Bernards. But only pits get aggressive when penned/chained? Oh please. All social animals will...nothing to do with their breed, and everything to do with their treatment.

I disagree. Dog lovers can tell you about many behaviors that are characteristic of certain breeds. For instance, are we to believe that the herding instinct can be stronger in certain breeds, but just plain agressiveness is not such an inherited behavior? I think not. Just because there are many nice pit bulls doesn't mean they are just as safe as a golden retriever when a kid does something to make it mad.

All dogs have potential for bad, aggressive behavior, but no way in hell would I trust a pit bull as much as many others.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[PLFXpert 0]

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That will apply to any animal who is chained, ignored, and abused...not solely pits. Do the same to a chihuahua, or a horse, or an elephant...you'll get an aggressive, uncontrollable pet.

Absolutely.
To everyone else; I have no response b/c your reply has nothing at all to do with my original post; nor did you pay attention to my thoughts on fact-checking PETA or any other organization for that matter.

I didn't post about pit bulls. I didn't post about ways in which PETA can appear (or even is) hypocritical. In fact, just about everyone and every organization will bend the rules to suit their purpose. I do on occassion. And so do you all. I'm not supporting or opposing PETA.

And any further replies not having anything at all to do with my point (be it in support of or against) I will ignore.

P.S. to Sundevil. Right on!

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[Michele 1]

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For instance, are we to believe that the herding instinct can be stronger in certain breeds, but just plain agressiveness is not such an inherited behavior?

Nope, didn't say that, and don't agree with that. Frankly, if you look at them , you'll see that some dogs will have certain traits (i.e. herding, scenting, et cetera) that are there. It means that specific training is needed, as well as an understanding of the dog's nature, is in order. If I want to bring a dog's scenting behavior as dominant, I work that and exercise it, and train it. Same with herding.

If I create an environment where that need is not tended to, and in fact creates issues which exacerbate that behavior, I will have an animal with issues on my hands...

If a child is learning to read, and they're not doing so well, is it right to say 'well, can't do anything...they just can't read'? Nope, we do everything we can do to help the child get that skill sharper. If we ignore it, we end up with an illiterate, or very frustrated child...and that is a shame.

I see it similarly when people get dogs that are herders, and get mad when the dog herds the family. When dogs that are swimmers and leap into the pool, and the owners get mad. Or when a dog has an aggressive streak, and is not well socialized, trained, and is constantly chained up and abused so that their aggressive nature is pinpointed and brought to the fore. That's the issue...

The pits I've met have all had families which understood their nature...and which have treated them accordingly from early on. And I've met poodles who'd rather bite than sit...with the owners crooning "aw, isn't that funny? She can't hurt you..."

It's the owners' responsibility...know the breed, accommodate the breed, train the breed.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[lawrocket 3]

I find that abuse of the turkeys is bad, vile, despicable and wrong. I find that abuse of any animal is bad vile, despicable and wrong.

My apologies for my post getting off topic. As I told Darius earlier, "Sorry. I'm in an asshole kind of mood today."

On the unnecessary cruelty note, I agree with PETA. However, PETA implictly attempts to blame an entire industry on the cruelty that is inevitable with anything or anyone. Not all PETA members are hypocrites. I would actually posit that the vast, vast majority of PETA members are good and caring people like you.

However, I find it sickening that PETA will, on one hand, publically state its support for the eradication of pit bulls, while on the other hand will post a picture of an abused and neglected pit bull to gain sympathy.

People abused turkeys. It is a fact that was documented on video.

I would, however, look at "Certified Humane" turkeys as being a "feel good" sort of thing. IT means that for meat, dairy and eggs, the animals are: 1) allowed to engage in natural behaviors; 2) have sufficient space, shelter and gentle handling to limit stressl and 3) have ample fresh water and a healthy diet without antibiotics or hormones.

What does this mean? Does this mean that egg-laying hens can't be kept in cages? Or that they must be released for an hour of free exercise every day? What does this mean?

My concern is with what is driving this. Is there money to be made by issuing "certified humane" labels? What difference can you expect to see between "Certified Humane" and USDA certifications?

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[sundevil777 102]

Sounds like you agree with me. Certain breeds are more likely to be agressive, independent of whether that was caused by some cruelty to the dog. Just like some dogs are more likely to herd by instinct, even if it hasn't been trained.

I'll prefer the breeds that are naturally less agressive, and not trust at all the breeds that have a well deserved reputation for more unpredictable agression.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[PLFXpert 0]

Even certified humane has its problems; but I don't buy any meat other than wild caught fish (that is dolphin/sea turtle/mammal safe) so....

But I realize other people do and certainly certified humane is a better option for those people. In fact, the reason I can't call myself officially "vegan" or "vegetarian" is b/c I DON'T make others conform to me and thus when I visit friends/relatives (though my closest ones accommodate me anyways) I will likely eat whatever they have prepared (with the exception of pig).

My goal is not to turn the world vegetarian. Assuredly if everyone believed as I do (wouldn't that be perfect) then even I would eat more meat as I DO believe in the food chain.

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What does this mean? Does this mean that egg-laying hens can't be kept in cages? Or that they must be released for an hour of free exercise every day? What does this mean?

I don't know, offhand, the exact answer to your question. I do know the horrible experiences most farms which keep (and only keep) their chickens in cages do to their chickens.

I will post links to that at another time. I am only one person to all of you and with little help must be able to refute (and provide credible links & evidence to support such) each topic. Thus, I must stick to one topic at a time to do so efficiently (and still have time to work & play outside of DZ.com.).

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[kelpdiver 2]

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I'll prefer the breeds that are naturally less agressive, and not trust at all the breeds that have a well deserved reputation for more unpredictable agression.

Dalmations have characteristics that make them lousy family dogs, and this truth is rediscovered after every 101 movie.

I think would be pit bull owners have to realize they're getting a powerful dog that tends towards the hyper, excitable side. I wouldn't fear it myself, being stronger. But I find them ugly as hell.

The reputations for certain breeds gets overstated by owner abuse. The differences between Rotties and German Shepards versus 'tamer' breeds is pretty small stuff when you remove the environmental attributes.

[MNM604 0]

Atleast some people can open there eyes to animal abuse. It is something that I deal with everyday in my job. The satisfaction I get when I prosecute someone for animal cruelty is awesome. People always ask me how I feel after, and I always tell them there are no words to describe it, I just feel a certain way and it the best feeling in the world. I have put thousands of animal to sleep and that makes me feel pretty shity. People always tell me that they could not do my job because they love animals to much. I always tell them, it is because I love animals so much that I do my job.

[freeflybella 0]

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My concern is with what is driving this. Is there money to be made by issuing "certified humane" labels? What difference can you expect to see between "Certified Humane" and USDA certifications?

Who cares?

Everytime you eat fastfood or buy Tyson meat - you're lining the pocket of someone directly or indirectly responsible for animal torture. Why not make a thoughtful choice and support those who are trying to stop it?

Somewhere, somehow - someone will find a way to make money on everything.

Just because you haven't actually said "I want to eat tortured animals" doesn't mean you haven't made that choice. If you haven't purposefully chosen the alternative, you've made that choice.

Food animals are tortured. If you're going to eat animals - do what you can to support more humane treatment. It's the least you can do.

Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

[freeflybella 0]

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I am only one person

Nope! I'm vegan too.

Although I'm admittedly not super great at internet debate...

The point I always try to make is just 'be thoughtful'. Be willing to witness what's going on, be open to even small changes that (if you believe in the butterfly effect) may make a difference.

Re: the link to Schwarzenegger...

There is something just not 'right' about a society that will put a person in jail for leaving a dog on leash for more than 3 hours - and will then allow the production and sale of paté and veal...Talk about hypocrisy.

Regardless of the hypocrisy - it IS a step in the right direction. It still saves many dogs from suffering.

Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi