Animal Cruelty

[PLFXpert 0]

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There are so many ways to make this world a better place, thanks for your contribution. Sincerely.

Most definitely!

This is how I feel regarding one's own contribution.

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[bloody_trauma 2]

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christ...what do you say to that?
I guess, if I were faced with human suffering and tragedy on a daily basis it might piss me off to come across a thread about animal rights.
There are so many ways to make this world a better place, thanks for your contribution. Sincerely.
It's not much, but I'm trying to do my part, too.
Yeah, I guess I am a fuckin' hippie.

way to double space

hey i love animals.. some of them are tasty and some of them are cute, some of them... not so.
whats best in when they are cute and tasty

but seriously i love animals and was at one point considering going into veterinary medicine, but i opted for human medicine instead, i love my german shepard dog almost as much as i love my wife. i have a guinea pig and a rabbit who live together, and a cat that has some wierd form of mange dog bless its soul. pun intended.

but we eat these animals for cryin out loud, i don't care how they die, its not like theres some fiendish owner of a chicken farm out there who plans elaborate painful deaths for poultry.

and its not as if cattle and other animals have any cognitive thoughts about death, heres a day in the life of a cow
cow sleeps standing up/cow wakes up/cow eats,shits & pisses/cow goes back to sleep
the cow doesn't run around its pen thinking about how its going to die and could probably care less.

in the hunting gathering days if you were the guy that thought killing animals was wrong or cared about how they died, then you didn't eat because you couldn't contribute. they didn't have vegetarians back then because no body had that mentality, maybe in other parts of the world like india, but this is an american thing, if peta went to india or turkey and tried to bitch about animal rights they themselves would probably be eaten.

and speaking of animal rights...
WE KILL THEM SO WE CAN EAT THEM!
we don't raise them in a controlled environment so we can give them rights.
we americans have the bill of rights. its the first part of the constitution
no where in there does it say anything about giving the animals any equality to us, and you know why?...
CUZ WE EAT THEM YA HIPPIES!

people want to treat animals humanely, that is to say we want to treat them like humanity, elaborating further leads us to, i want to treat that animal like a human, and that were you get these people who dress thier cats up in stupid outfits and spurt gibberish baby talk at them as if they understand

seems like odd behaviour to me

Fly it like you stole it

[livetofall 0]

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There are humane ways to control sea lion/seal populations. I briefly touched on that earlier in this thread (but b/c it's off the original topic of free-range I did not dive into the full solution).

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reaaaaalllllly..........would you like to share ONE way that works..they have been trying every humane way, even capure and back to CA..guess what they come right back to the river over 1000 miles swim lust so they can sit on their fat blubbery ass next to the fish ladder and pick them off. They are also a wasteful predator, they only eat the stomach. They have been over populated due to OUR interference. Like I said, theyre just so cute until one grabs someones 2 yr old off the dock. It will happen.

www.911missinglinks.com the definitive truth of 9/11..the who and why, not how

You can handle the TRUTH www.theforbiddentruth.net

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[micro 0]

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people want to treat animals humanely, that is to say we want to treat them like humanity, elaborating further leads us to, i want to treat that animal like a human, and that were you get these people who dress thier cats up in stupid outfits and spurt gibberish baby talk at them as if they understand

seems like odd behaviour to me

it IS very odd behavior... it's anthropomorphic. animals aren't human and shouldn't be treated as human. but just as the paris hilton's w/ their stupid pet dogs have gone too far one way, you've gone too far the other way. treating an animal humanely doesn't mean we're wanting to ascribe to it "human" qualities and "human" rights, it simply means we are wanting to treat it in a manner in which it's nature requires. As humans, we have dominion over animals. we CAN us them as food and IMO it isn't wrong to do so. however, it IS wrong IMO to cause them undo suffering in order to GET that food, i.e. by making them live in squalor, in packed food lots where they can't move, where they ingest cannabalized products that lead to mad cow disease, etc.

in many ways these creatures cannot defend themselves from us and therefore it behooves us to protect them from undue suffering. just b/c we're eventually going to kill them and consume them doesn't mean we can ipso facto do whatever the hell we want to in the interim. what a childish, self-absorbed attitude.

i highly recommend Dominion by Matthew Scully to you. He's a former Bush speech writer. It's a real eye opener.

I miss Lee.
And JP.
And Chris. And...

[diverdad 0]

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christ...what do you say to that?
I guess, if I were faced with human suffering and tragedy on a daily basis it might piss me off to come across a thread about animal rights.
There are so many ways to make this world a better place, thanks for your contribution. Sincerely.
It's not much, but I'm trying to do my part, too.
Yeah, I guess I am a fuckin' hippie.

way to double space

hey i love animals.. some of them are tasty and some of them are cute, some of them... not so.
whats best in when they are cute and tasty

but seriously i love animals and was at one point considering going into veterinary medicine, but i opted for human medicine instead, i love my german shepard dog almost as much as i love my wife. i have a guinea pig and a rabbit who live together, and a cat that has some wierd form of mange dog bless its soul. pun intended.

but we eat these animals for cryin out loud, i don't care how they die, its not like theres some fiendish owner of a chicken farm out there who plans elaborate painful deaths for poultry.

and its not as if cattle and other animals have any cognitive thoughts about death, heres a day in the life of a cow
cow sleeps standing up/cow wakes up/cow eats,shits & pisses/cow goes back to sleep
the cow doesn't run around its pen thinking about how its going to die and could probably care less.

in the hunting gathering days if you were the guy that thought killing animals was wrong or cared about how they died, then you didn't eat because you couldn't contribute. they didn't have vegetarians back then because no body had that mentality, maybe in other parts of the world like india, but this is an american thing, if peta went to india or turkey and tried to bitch about animal rights they themselves would probably be eaten.

and speaking of animal rights...
WE KILL THEM SO WE CAN EAT THEM!
we don't raise them in a controlled environment so we can give them rights.
we americans have the bill of rights. its the first part of the constitution
no where in there does it say anything about giving the animals any equality to us, and you know why?...
CUZ WE EAT THEM YA HIPPIES!

people want to treat animals humanely, that is to say we want to treat them like humanity, elaborating further leads us to, i want to treat that animal like a human, and that were you get these people who dress thier cats up in stupid outfits and spurt gibberish baby talk at them as if they understand

seems like odd behaviour to me

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Just when I thought everybody had lost their common sense, you had to go putting the truth in here. Couldn't have said it better myself.

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[bloody_trauma 2]

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what a childish, self-absorbed attitude.

if you do agree with me thats cool, but don't write like that about my opinions. and even so i can be childish and self absorbed because (drum roll please)..... i could care less

Fly it like you stole it

[bloody_trauma 2]

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just b/c we're eventually going to kill them and consume them doesn't mean we can ipso facto do whatever the hell we want to in the interim

yes it does

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by making them live in squalor, in packed food lots where they can't move, where they ingest cannabalized products that lead to mad cow disease, etc.

geez you make it sound like that theres an animal hitler out there causeing a livestock holocaust
uh for the record i would like to state that pigs uh... live in one spot anyways and roll around in thier own shit, and i uh.. talked to one of them and he said he didn't mind being close to his buds

Fly it like you stole it

[micro 0]

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just b/c we're eventually going to kill them and consume them doesn't mean we can ipso facto do whatever the hell we want to in the interim

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yes it does

see my previous comments about childish and self-absorbed attitudes... i wonder how you feel when you step on your dogs tail.

I miss Lee.
And JP.
And Chris. And...

[akarunway 1]

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just b/c we're eventually going to kill them and consume them doesn't mean we can ipso facto do whatever the hell we want to in the interim

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yes it does

see my previous comments about childish and self-absorbed attitudes... i wonder how you feel when you step on your dogs tail.

Or piss off THIS pig> "Nurse 'savaged' by enraged giant pig

Woman horserider attacked by wild pig

A nurse has spoken of her terror after she was attacked by a giant pig which charged the horse she was riding and then savaged her after she was thrown to the ground.

Suffering from broken ribs from the fall, Carolyn Robinson feared for her life as the enraged pig hurtled at her.

The ferocious beast, which she describes as "huge", mauled the 51 year old and snapped at her legs as she tried desperately to fight it off while lying prone in a quiet country lane.

The pig was eventually driven off by Mrs Robinson's worried teenage daughter, with the help of passers-by.

Animal experts say the attack could have been deadly as pigs have been known to become violent if they feel under threat or when protecting a food source or their young.

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[bloody_trauma 2]

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i wonder how you feel when you step on your dogs tail.

personal attacks are cheap and pathetic, lets not turn this into a my values are better than yours conversation, besides that i don't step on my dogs tail, i don't abuse my dog, she is one of my companions, not an animal that intend to eat, ive made it perfectly clear that i don't care about how farm animals are treated. thats just what i think about the issue and I don't expect you to side with me but i'd appreciate it if you respected that.

Fly it like you stole it

[Royd 0]

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who wants to go eat a bucket of chicken outside the offices of PETA with me?

Will it be deep fried in animal fat.

fuckin hippies

[Royd 0]

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in the hunting gathering days if you were the guy that thought killing animals was wrong or cared about how they died, then you didn't eat because you couldn't contribute. they didn't have vegetarians back then because no body had that mentality

The word "vegetarian" is an old Indian word meaning " poor hunter."

[micro 0]

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i wonder how you feel when you step on your dogs tail.

personal attacks are cheap and pathetic, lets not turn this into a my values are better than yours conversation, besides that i don't step on my dogs tail, i don't abuse my dog, she is one of my companions, not an animal that intend to eat, ive made it perfectly clear that i don't care about how farm animals are treated. thats just what i think about the issue and I don't expect you to side with me but i'd appreciate it if you respected that.

well, thanks for completely missing the point on that. it wasn't a personal attack at all... let me break this down for you in a different way...

so you've never ever stepped on a dogs tail accidentally huh? and i suppose you were like, oh get the fuck over it when the dog yelped at you, as if it were saying OUCH, that's my tail! And what was it conveying to you by it's yelp? C'mon, you're a nurse (or someone in the medical related field, you can figure this out).... PAIN!!! It experienced PAIN!!! You know, that wonderful substance P!!!

Most people I know who step on the tail of a pet, a personal companion, are all "oh, I'm sorry sport, oh is it better, oh, forgive me." as they hug and kiss on fido and fido licks the face of his master to convey that the slight has been forgiven.

Do you see the disconnect? The cognitive dissonance? Do you treat your pets, if you have them or ever had them, any differently than you would farm animals? Why? What's the difference? Why should it matter just b/c the farm animals are going to be consumed as food? In some ways the farm animals impending sacrifice is more noble since their very existence is to support YOUR very existence! And yet you'd rather treat them in the most contemptible way imaginable.

So you don't give a rats ass if other animals are unnecessarily inflicted w/ undue, wanton cruelty.

"I don't care how farm animals are treated."

That's what you said.

Well, guess what... when farm animals are abused, the increased levels of stress hormones are introduced into their meat. And then guess what... YOU EAT THAT MEAT.

yum. eat up pal.

I miss Lee.
And JP.
And Chris. And...

[freeflybella 0]

What micro said...

(without the "eating them" part)

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i love my german shepard dog almost as much as i love my wife.

If you would get enraged over someone kicking your dog or stealing him and using him in animal experiments - then you know where I am coming from.

It seems to be common that it's ok if happens to millions of animals, just not ok if it happens to MY animal.

The end does not justify the means. In almost every instance this is true for me. For me it's the WAY we acheive our goals that shows our true character/morals/integrity, etc. Who cares if you're rich and are a soulless prick? Who cares if you're 'happy' but left people heartbroken and struggling in your wake?

Anyway, my dad was an army colonel - I've been called hippie, pinko, commie...you name it. He called our cat "Buttlicker" when I was a kid. But every morning after he left for work, that cat smelled like his aftershave.
This is how I developed the faith that compassion is in all of us. It's just that greed is just so easy to succumb to.

Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

[billvon 3,058]

>see my previous comments about childish and self-absorbed attitudes . . .

Your one warning.

[bloody_trauma 2]

i do realize that this forum started out from PETA calling for the extermination of pits, or at least thats what i gathered from it, but i somehow turned into farm animals.

now domesticated animals are animals that we humans keep around as sources of pleasure. yeah all living animals feel pain, and yes animals made for consumption can be domesticated, but it makes little difference to me whether an animal walks around in its own fecal matter or not. i'm not going to eat my dog but i am going to eat what ever it is that someone killed for me to purchase and eat because i have no emotional attachment to that animal.

this thread is kinda wierd for me now cuz my wife just told me our gunea pig died and in the "food i hate" thread people are talking about eating guinea pigs... blech, for a second i thought about my dog getting ahold of its carcas and laying waste to it in my living room, oh that would kill my wife.

oh and me being a healthcare provider has nothing to do with how compasionate i am toward animals, i have an obligation to humans not critters. i'm plenty compassionate i just don't have any reservations about how an animal is killed.

what really needs to be paid attention to is kosher butchers, cows are slaughtered at the hand of a god fearing murderer everyday and no one is stopping them! i keed i keed

Fly it like you stole it

[kelpdiver 2]

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Well, guess what... when farm animals are abused, the increased levels of stress hormones are introduced into their meat. And then guess what... YOU EAT THAT MEAT.

yum. eat up pal.

So what does pain taste like?

I think I'd worry much more about the antibiotics being fed to them, than the cortisol levels.

[freeflybella 0]

No. This thread was started on the topic of farm animals. Specifically turkeys. Check out post number one.

You've made your position pretty clear. Cool. Looks like you won't be joining any protest marches. I wouldn't expect everyone to just give in and give up meat.

But you have a spare moment or two, I second the recommendation by Micro. Dominion is an enlightening read.

Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

[jakee 1,557]

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I wouldn't expect everyone to just give in and give up meat.

I wouldn't expect anyone to give up meat. To decide that animals shouldn't be kept in pain and suffering their entire life until slaughter (battery chickens come to mind) isn't too much to ask though, right?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[freeflybella 0]

Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

[Shell666 0]

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just b/c we're eventually going to kill them and consume them doesn't mean we can ipso facto do whatever the hell we want to in the interim

yes it does

Why do you feel it gives you that right???

My grandparents had a cattle farm, so don't think that I'm asking this because I don't know about raising cattle or that I don't eat meat (I do). My family raised cattle and did so without making them live in conditions that you seem to think are fine.

Would you let your dog live in the same conditions??? Probably not.

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by making them live in squalor, in packed food lots where they can't move, where they ingest cannabalized products that lead to mad cow disease, etc.

geez you make it sound like that theres an animal hitler out there causeing a livestock holocaust

[Shell666 0]

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oh and me being a healthcare provider has nothing to do with how compasionate i am toward animals, i have an obligation to humans not critters. i'm plenty compassionate i just don't have any reservations about how an animal is killed.

If you EAT that animal, you should have some reservations about how it's killed. If you don't care about how it's treated BEFORE it's killed, you might want to consider how it's treated AFTER it's killed. You're eating it.

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what really needs to be paid attention to is kosher butchers, cows are slaughtered at the hand of a god fearing murderer everyday and no one is stopping them! i keed i keed

And what, exactly, do you mean by those comments?

You seem to be very narrow minded.

And that's just sad.

'Shell

'Shell

[quack 0]

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Speaking of eating organically and antibiotics...

Freeflybella, when was the last time you actually needed antibiotics?

For me I think it was high school.

I haven't had so much as the common cold in 4 years, either.

While, I wouldn't dare say I'm 100% organic, I do opt for the organic choice more often than not. Purchasing foods & household products/items most accordingly to my animal welfare conscience is my main area of focus.

Still, I'd be interested, now, to read research on the correlation of those who eat organically and how often they get sick vs. those who do not. My theory is one would find the person putting less chemicals into their body get sick far less.

There's no evidence either way that organic foods result in a healthier outcome for the eater. Or I should say, there is evidence that supports both sides, like anything in this world. Also, the potential increased risks from pathogenic bacteria on organic produce, for example, is a concern. Because of the manner in which they are fertilized and packaged, they may be of bigger concern for some high risk consumers. (My comments aren't merely a result of the spinach recalls of this past month - I just have an interest.)

Organic animal production may follow the standards set out by the certifying body, but in the end the slaughter practices are very similar (and typically performed in the same faciity as conventional raised animals). Temple Grandin's website has lots of info and should be checked out: http://www.grandin.com/

You're probably right though. Less artificial chemicals in the body should intuitively mean increased health. But where could a person live to not be exposed to the thousands of chemicals in their immediate environment?

But you have to understand, mental illness is like cholesterol. There is the good kind and the bad. Without the good kind- less flavor to life. - Serge A. Storms

[quack 0]

I do find it interesting that there can be such heated debate on this topic of humane slaughter when you consider the following:

Inmates on death row opting for lethal injection have their skin wiped with antiseptic prior to the needle being inserted. Now there's a disconnect.

But you have to understand, mental illness is like cholesterol. There is the good kind and the bad. Without the good kind- less flavor to life. - Serge A. Storms

[jenfly00 0]

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So, there we have it! Pit bulls aren't lovable like other animals! Therefore, they are worthy of being destroyed.

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You know sometimes, I think you are one of the more intelligible people here and then you go and make statements like this.

I have no intention to sit and debate this all day long, so I will just make this post in response. Having had a pitbull (which was the most loveable dog I ever saw) for 15 happy years, I know that this statement is a crock. To go even further my sister has a pitbull that is 10 years old and with the time I spent around that dog is also enough to that your statement was a crock. Then there is my grandmother who had a pitbull that sadly died at 7 years old. But that dog too proved to me that your statement was a crock. Come to think of it your statement seems to be utter ignorance which I have heard time and time again by people who just don't know any better.

Its true drug dealers and assholes who like to fight pitbulls tend to pick these dogs but the problem there is NOT the dogs its the OWNERS.

Going by that logic one would want to make guns illegal because bad people might get their hands on them.

Hmmm. Emergency Departments have to keep records of dog bites, including breed. In the late 90's the large county hospital in Miami (JMH) published some data that identified Rotweiliers and pitbulls as the dogs involved in about 35% of all dog bites serious enough to seek emergency treatment and somewhere around 85% of all fatal attacks. The fatalities were almost always young children and the dogs were most commonly beloved family pets of either their parents or their neighbors.

I accept what you say as truthful and that the majority are lovable dogs, but with statistics like these, how could one choose them as a family pet?

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"O brave new world that has such people in it".