I just don't get why Bush has not been Impeached!

[kelpdiver 2]

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Iraq lead by Hussein posed a real threat to the country's interests.

Would you mind elaborating?

no thanks, it's not a serious question you're asking, is it?

I've heard enough bullshit tales of peaceful nice Iraq in the Bay Area to last a lifetime.

[freethefly 6]

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Iraq lead by Hussein posed a real threat to the country's interests.

Would you mind elaborating?

no thanks, it's not a serious question you're asking, is it?

I've heard enough bullshit tales of peaceful nice Iraq in the Bay Area to last a lifetime.

All indicators point towards the Iraqi people much prefering Saddam to the wasteland that was created by this incompentant baboon of a president and his warhappy monkeys. The current exodus of people leaving for neighboring countries such as Iran, Syria and Jordan is proof of the colossal failure and lack of direction that the Bush admin has set into action. People are losing life and limbs for absolutely nothing. As I see it, the soldiers are not fighting to protect America they are fighting to protect their own lifes. The number of soldier interviews indicate this to be so. For this administration to continue to send men and women into a spiraling deathtrap should be itself a crime worthy of a charge of manslaughter if not 1st degree murder.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[billvon 3,009]

>I've heard enough bullshit tales of peaceful nice Iraq in the Bay Area to last a lifetime.

Indeed.

Right wingers would have you believe that Iraq was once an intolerable hellhole, where you couldn't walk down the street without being raped or killed - and is now a peaceful, nice place, a lot like LA - just a bit hotter.

Left wingers would have you believe that Iraq was once a really nice place to live, and is now a slaughterhouse where you can't go outside without getting cut to pieces by flying shrapnel.

Both are, of course, bullshit.

[DaVinci 0]

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try reading the constitution. when all else fails look within one's self

I have read it...It is clear you have not.

[NCclimber 0]

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On this issue, the link you need is to reality.

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Ditch the dogma and people will (eventually) overlook your rigid, straight line support of a president who defiles his country.

It's much like you continue to rant that the earth is flat, then feign a triumphant laugh when others do not respond to your disconnect from reality as if you had said something remotely reasonable.

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I suspect if your right wing ideology was turned to religion, you would be speaking in tongues and spontaneously bleeding from your hands and feet.

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Ditch the dogma and people will (eventually) overlook your rigid, straight line support of a president who defiles his country anything that is against the current administration.

It's much like you continue to rant that the earth is flat, then feign a triumphant laugh when others do not respond to your disconnect from reality as if you had said something remotely reasonable.

With the change above, the same could be said for you...

Here ya go:

http://reality.edu/

You're a regular two trick pony... assert posters are out of touch with reality (while doing nothing to refute their points) or simply labelling them as a right wing idealogue.

You go, girl.

[idrankwhat 0]

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>provide a relevency to the distinction you're trying to make.

I am not trying to "provide a relevancy," just trying to point out an error. You said that congress voted to go to war; that is incorrect. They voted to support the president's use of the military to defend the USA against threats, including possible threats from Iraq. I would vote for that too; I suspect you would as well.

yes, they gave him a blank check, and with the exception of Barbara Lee gave their support to flattening Iraq. While we don't call these declarations of war anymore, that's as close as we get.

.

That blank check was issued with conditions attached for cashing it. Conditions that we were told were satisfied prior to the invasion, but in fact were not satisfied at all.

Actually I think that there are also some conditions that have be satisfied after the fact. I may be mistaken here but I think that there is supposed to be some sort of review given to Congress every 60 days.

[NCclimber 0]

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Actually I think that there are also some conditions that have be satisfied after the fact. I may be mistaken here but I think that there is supposed to be some sort of review given to Congress every 60 days.

Cue Foghorn Leghorn:

I say, I say there boy. We got a war on our hands. We can't to be bothered with no silly ole review nonsense. This is WAR.

Don't go worrying your purty little head over such stuff. Just leave it all to me and my chickenhawks.

We'll take care of everything.

[goofyjumper 0]

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I am not trying to "provide a relevancy," just trying to point out an error. You said that congress voted to go to war; that is incorrect. They voted to support the president's use of the military to defend the USA against threats, including possible threats from Iraq. I would vote for that too; I suspect you would as well.

In the post 9/11 world almost NO ONE would have voted against ANYTHING this administration wanted...The PNAC boys counted on that..anyone who did was seen as un patriotic.. a terrorist sympathizer...etc
and were vilified for it.

Hell you mods even banned me for calling some right wing poster a name for suggesting I was a terrorist sympathizer.

True, they have played the fear card for too long!

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I love and Miss you so much Honey!
Orfun #3 ~ Darla

[NCclimber 0]

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We have a man (and his administration) who made a bold face lie about going to Iraq.

"Hussein has WMD and we know for sure!"

That is a lie right there.

Hey Goofy,

I'm still waiting for you to provide a link for that quote. Or is you claim that Bush said those exact words...










a lie?

[idrankwhat 0]

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We have a man (and his administration) who made a bold face lie about going to Iraq.

"Hussein has WMD and we know for sure!"

That is a lie right there.

Hey Goofy,

I'm still waiting for you to provide a link for that quote. Or is you claim that Bush said those exact words...

Does Rummy count? March 2003:

STEPHANOPOULOS: [I]s it curious to you that given how much control U.S. and coalition forces now have in the country, they haven’t found any weapons of mass destruction?

RUMSFELD: Not at all. If you think — let me take that, both pieces — the area in the south and the west and the north that coalition forces control is substantial. It happens not to be the area where weapons of mass destruction were dispersed. We know where they are. They’re in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat.

[NCclimber 0]

Considering that claim was made after we invaded Iraq, it does nothing to support the premise that "Bush lied" to justify going to war.

However, in reading the transcript for that interview, it's interesting to read what Rumsfeld said regarding troop numbers and requests for additional troops.

Growing up I was told "If you're gonna do something, do it right".

[goofyjumper 0]

I thought I did.

Now, I did put that original message in quotes when I shouldn't have. I will admit that and say that I was wrong. I really did it to show the message I was making. I really didn't mean for it to be a quote I just put it in quotes to show my message.

Sorry, I didn't mean to mislead anybody.

Here is the closest think I found.


President George W. Bush on Chemical and Biological Weapons:

"We found the weapons of mass destruction. We found biological laboratories. You remember when Colin Powell stood up in front of the world, and he said, Iraq has got laboratories, mobile labs to build biological weapons. They're illegal. They're against the United Nations resolutions, and we've so far discovered two. And we'll find more weapons as time goes on. But for those who say we haven't found the banned manufacturing devices or banned weapons, they're wrong, we found them."
Source: Interview of the President by TVP, Poland, White House (5/29/2003).

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I love and Miss you so much Honey!
Orfun #3 ~ Darla

[goofyjumper 0]

Of course that was afterwe invaded Iraq.

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I love and Miss you so much Honey!
Orfun #3 ~ Darla

[SkyDekker 1,465]

yeah but that still isn't really a lie, cause some poor schmuck at CIA was told to tell him that or lose his job. Technically the president didn't lie.

I do believe that Bush severly cherry picked who he chose to listen to and what to believe. To me what he did is worse than lying.

[idrankwhat 0]

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Considering that claim was made after we invaded Iraq, it does nothing to support the premise that "Bush lied" to justify going to war.

Sorry, this is the best I can do on short notice and still do my work today.

Aug. 26, 2002
Dick Cheney, Vice President
"Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction."

Sep. 12, 2002
George W. Bush, Speech to UN General Assembly
"Right now, Iraq is expanding and improving facilities that were used for the production of biological weapons."

Oct. 5, 2002
George W. Bush, Radio Address
"Iraq has stockpiled biological and chemical weapons, and is rebuilding the facilities used to make more of those weapons."

Oct. 7, 2002
George W. Bush
"The Iraqi regime . . . possesses and produces chemical and biological weapons. It is seeking nuclear weapons. We know that the regime has produced thousands of tons of chemical agents, including mustard gas, sarin nerve gas, VX nerve gas."

Jan. 28, 2003
George W. Bush
"Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent" and "upwards of 30,000 munitions capable of delivering chemical agents... "

May 30, 2003
Bush cites 2 trailers found as evidence of " the weapons of mass destruction" that were the United States' primary justification for going to war.

"Right now, Iraq is expanding and improving facilities that were used for the production of biological weapons."
George W. Bush, Speech to UN General Assembly 9/12/2002

"Iraq has stockpiled biological and chemical weapons, and is rebuilding the facilities used to make more of those weapons. We have sources that tell us that Saddam Hussein recently authorized Iraqi field commanders to use chemical weapons -- the very weapons the dictator tells us he does not have."
George W. Bush, Radio Address 10/5/2002

"The Iraqi regime . . . possesses and produces chemical and biological weapons. It is seeking nuclear weapons. We know that the regime has produced thousands of tons of chemical agents, including mustard gas, sarin nerve gas, VX nerve gas."
George W. Bush, Cincinnati, Ohio Speech 10/7/2002

"We've also discovered through intelligence that Iraq has a growing fleet of manned and unmanned aerial vehicles that could be used to disperse chemical or biological weapons across broad areas."
George W. Bush, Cincinnati, Ohio Speech 10/7/2002

"Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent."
George W. Bush, State of the Union Address 1/28/2003

“The best way for peace is for Mr. Saddam Hussein to disarm,” he insists. “It's up to him to make his decision.” [White House, 12/4/02]

Bush says. “He's the person who gets to decide war and peace.” [White House, 2/7/03]

Sep. 18, 2002
Donald Rumsfeld
His regime has amassed large, clandestine stockpiles of biological weapons—including anthrax and botulism toxin, and possibly smallpox.

His regime has amassed large, clandestine stockpiles of chemical weapons—including VX, sarin, cyclosarin and mustard gas.

His regime has an active program to acquire and develop nuclear weapons.

[mnealtx 0]

I guess all these people were lying and need to be impeached, too!!

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"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..."
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
- President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
- President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

"We must stop Saddam from ever again jeopardizing the stability and security of his neighbors with weapons of mass destruction."
- Madeline Albright, Feb 1, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
- Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton.
- (D) Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, others, Oct. 9, 1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
- Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and th! e means of delivering them."
- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[jcd11235 0]

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Iraq lead by Hussein posed a real threat to the country's interests.

Would you mind elaborating?

no thanks, it's not a serious question you're asking, is it?

I've heard enough bullshit tales of peaceful nice Iraq in the Bay Area to last a lifetime.

As I have heard enough bullshit tales about how bad things were in Iraq before we come in bombing. Iraq posed no threat to us or her neighbors. Iraq had no WMD. Iraq had running water and electricity.

Since you refuse to elaborate, I have to assume it's because you realize that facts do not support your assertions. If I'm wrong, and you do have supporting facts please feel free to bring them forward for those of us who have maintained enough awareness to realize that the Bush administration has yet to offer up such evidence.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[idrankwhat 0]

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I guess all these people were lying and need to be impeached, too!!

And how many of those quotes were based on the cherry picked intelligence that was provided to Congress as routed through the office of special plans via Cheney's office? And how many of those quotes were made after the UN inspectors (who said they only needed six more months) were in Iraq with the "unfettered" access that they requested? Didn't matter did it? The "imminent" threat of a nooookular cloud demanded immediate action. Bush Sr knew it was a bad idea but George had to, as he put it "defer to a higher father". Maybe the boy blunder should have listened to his "lower" father.
Here's Bush (41) on the issue.
"Trying to eliminate Saddam, extending the ground war into an occupation of Iraq, would have violated our guideline about not changing objectives in midstream, ..... We would have been forced to occupy Baghdad and, in effect, rule Iraq. The coalition would instantly have collapsed, the Arabs deserting it in anger and other allies pulling out as well. ....... Going in and occupying Iraq, thus unilaterally exceeding the U.N.'s mandate, would have destroyed the precedent of international response to aggression we hoped to establish. Had we gone the invasion route, the U.S. could conceivably still be an occupying power in a bitterly hostile land. It would have been a dramatically different — and perhaps barren — outcome."

[NCclimber 0]

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I guess all these people were lying and need to be impeached, too!!

And how many of those quotes were based on the cherry picked intelligence that was provided to Congress as routed through the office of special plans via Cheney's office?

It's a pretty safe bet that at least seven of them were not.

[idrankwhat 0]

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I guess all these people were lying and need to be impeached, too!!

And how many of those quotes were based on the cherry picked intelligence that was provided to Congress as routed through the office of special plans via Cheney's office?

It's a pretty safe bet that at least seven of them were not.

You're right. I forgot to qualify those quotes which were made before we had the "unfettered" access to any and all of Iraq. Bush waved his big stick and helped to get the UN in there. I'll give him that much. Too bad he blew it after that. And again I should probably make note that Bush was pretty much just the enabler to those neo-cons who had been driving this war for nearly a decade. So in retrospect, I don't know if you can impeach someone for being a chump.

[NCclimber 0]

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What is your point? The debate is whether Bush lied, not others.

His point was Bush made claims that were consistent with the opinions of top Democrats, for the previous four years.

Much like the Foley drama, this is a case of selective outrage. All along, while Bill, Hillary, Madeline, Kerry, Sandy, Nancy, Ted et al made claims of Saddam's capabilities - the standard response is "Oh. Okay. Thanks for the info". Then when Bush says the same thing, every one is crying Bush lied! Bush lied!!!

That's the reality of the situation.

[idrankwhat 0]

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His point was Bush made claims that were consistent with the opinions of top Democrats, for the previous four years.

Much like the Foley drama, this is a case of selective outrage. All along, while Bill, Hillary, Madeline, Kerry, Sandy, Nancy, Ted et al made claims of Saddam's capabilities - the standard response is "Oh. Okay. Thanks for the info". Then when Bush says the same thing, every one is crying Bush lied! Bush lied!!!

That's the reality of the situation.

[billvon 3,009]

>That's the reality of the situation.

No, This (and this) is the reality of the situation. What you're talking about is a bunch of politicians (and partisan types) yelling at each other. That's not reality outside Washington, DC.

[mailin 0]

I think next year, when the republicans lose control in the house and senate, we'll see progress made toward a change in the oval office in the same year.

One can only hope

Arianna Frances

[kelpdiver 2]

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His point was Bush made claims that were consistent with the opinions of top Democrats, for the previous four years.

Much like the Foley drama, this is a case of selective outrage. All along, while Bill, Hillary, Madeline, Kerry, Sandy, Nancy, Ted et al made claims of Saddam's capabilities - the standard response is "Oh. Okay. Thanks for the info". Then when Bush says the same thing, every one is crying Bush lied! Bush lied!!!

That's the reality of the situation.

Yes, that is exactly so. The Democratic leadership was just as interested in slapping down Hussein, but now that it's 4 years later and there's political capital to be earned, can pretend otherwise.

Until Dean shook up the party in the primaries, they were in perfect step with the overlords in the WH.