bertusgeert 1 #1 October 31, 2006 So, what is the use of holding on to your guns that the constitution protects in order to let you fight the government (1st amendment?) when you can so easily be declared an enemy combatant. I'm not a political scientist, and I struggle to understand a lot of US politics, but this does not make sense to me. It seems like capitalism is becoming more and more like 1984? Politicians like power and want more, war opens power growth opportunities = politicians like war and the government grows? --------------------------------------------- As jy dom is moet jy bloei! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #2 October 31, 2006 I'm pretty sure you mean the 2nd amendment: QuoteA well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. The first amendment deals with different rights we used to have.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zipp0 1 #3 October 31, 2006 You don't even need to HAVE a gun to be an enemy combatant. Those idiots in FL didn't even have boots. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bertusgeert 1 #4 October 31, 2006 QuoteI'm pretty sure you mean the 2nd amendment: QuoteA well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. The first amendment deals with different rights we used to have. thanks - i knew i was probably wrong. --------------------------------------------- As jy dom is moet jy bloei! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #5 October 31, 2006 QuoteI'm pretty sure you mean the 2nd amendment: QuoteA well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. The first amendment deals with different rights we used to have. You mean the about Free Exercise of Religion? That one's a sore spot with me, too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,534 #6 October 31, 2006 QuoteYou mean the about Free Exercise of Religion? That one's a sore spot with me, too.How so -- can't you exercise your religion? Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #7 October 31, 2006 QuoteQuoteYou mean the about Free Exercise of Religion? That one's a sore spot with me, too.How so -- can't you exercise your religion? Wendy W. The shamen and Rastafari among us are prevented from doing so legally.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #8 October 31, 2006 QuoteSo, what is the use of holding on to your guns that the constitution protects in order to let you fight the government (1st 2nd amendment?) when you can so easily be declared an enemy combatant. If the government were to ever declare citizens "the enemy" for simply owning guns, then they would deserve to be overthrown, by force if necessary. And that's exactly why the 2nd Amendment exists. "One of the chief guarantees of freedom under any government, no matter how popular and respected, is the right of the citizens to keep and bear arms - just one guarantee against arbitrary government, one more safe-guard against the tyranny which now appears remote in America, but which historically has proven to be always possible." - Senator Hubert Humphrey, 1960 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #9 October 31, 2006 QuoteQuoteSo, what is the use of holding on to your guns that the constitution protects in order to let you fight the government (1st 2nd amendment?) when you can so easily be declared an enemy combatant. If the government were to ever declare citizens "the enemy" for simply owning guns, then they would deserve to be overthrown, by force if necessary. And that's exactly why the 2nd Amendment exists. "One of the chief guarantees of freedom under any government, no matter how popular and respected, is the right of the citizens to keep and bear arms - just one guarantee against arbitrary government, one more safe-guard against the tyranny which now appears remote in America, but which historically has proven to be always possible." - Senator Hubert Humphrey, 1960 You did not address his question.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #10 October 31, 2006 QuoteIf the government were to ever declare citizens "the enemy" for simply owning guns, then they would deserve to be overthrown, by force if necessary. And that's exactly why the 2nd Amendment exists. They don't have to publicly declare anything. Just make you disappear without any rights whatsoever. Do try and keep up on your current legislation. While you do still have the right to own a gun, unfortunately you do not have habeus corpus anymore. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bertusgeert 1 #11 October 31, 2006 Quote"one more safe-guard against the tyranny which now appears remote in America, but which historically has proven to be always possible." - Senator Hubert Humphrey, 1960 Tyranny: - arbitrary or unrestrained exercise of power - oppressive or unjustly severe government on the part of any ruler. - undue severity or harshness. Is the US all that far removed from a tyranny? What are you gonna do? they got 99 cops and you got a pistol. Then they detain you, put you in prison for being some kind of terrorist threat, and you are never heard from again. --------------------------------------------- As jy dom is moet jy bloei! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #12 October 31, 2006 Quoteunfortunately you do not have habeus corpus anymore. You just gotta laugh at this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #13 October 31, 2006 QuoteQuoteunfortunately you do not have habeus corpus anymore. You just gotta laugh at this. Right!.. Only people the President fingers are denied Habeas Corpus.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #14 October 31, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteunfortunately you do not have habeus corpus anymore. You just gotta laugh at this. Right!.. Only people the President fingers are denied Habeas Corpus. Yep. With past presidents all they got was a book deal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freethefly 6 #15 October 31, 2006 QuoteQuoteSo, what is the use of holding on to your guns that the constitution protects in order to let you fight the government (1st 2nd amendment?) when you can so easily be declared an enemy combatant. If the government were to ever declare citizens "the enemy" for simply owning guns, then they would deserve to be overthrown, by force if necessary. And that's exactly why the 2nd Amendment exists. "One of the chief guarantees of freedom under any government, no matter how popular and respected, is the right of the citizens to keep and bear arms - just one guarantee against arbitrary government, one more safe-guard against the tyranny which now appears remote in America, but which historically has proven to be always possible." - Senator Hubert Humphrey, 1960 For the history of the 2nd amendment see; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution The Smith Act of 1940 more or less voids the second admendment as any attempt to go against the Feds, State or any property of the U.S. is a Federal offence. In short, you cannot take up arms against the U.S. government regardless of what the government does. Sec. 2385. Advocating overthrow of Government Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government; or Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so; or Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof - Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction. If two or more persons conspire to commit any offense named in this section, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction. As used in this section, the terms ''organizes'' and ''organize'', with respect to any society, group, or assembly of persons, include the recruiting of new members, the forming of new units, and the regrouping or expansion of existing clubs, classes, and other units of such society, group, or assembly of persons. Source (June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 808; July 24, 1956, ch. 678, Sec. 2, 70 Stat. 623; June 19, 1962, Pub. L. 87-486, 76 Stat. 103; Sept. 13, 1994, Pub. L. 103-322, title XXXIII, Sec. 330016(1)(N), 108 Stat. 2148.) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- HISTORICAL AND REVISION NOTES Based on title 18, U.S.C., 1940 ed., Sec. 10, 11, 13 (June 28, 1940, ch. 439, title I, Sec. 2, 3, 5, 54 Stat. 670, 671). Section consolidates sections 10, 11, and 13 of title 18, U.S.C., 1940 ed. Section 13 of title 18, U.S.C., 1940 ed., which contained the punishment provisions applicable to sections 10 and 11 of title 18, U.S.C., 1940 ed., was combined with section 11 of title 18, U.S.C., 1940 ed., and added to this section. In first paragraph, words ''the Government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein'' were substituted for ''any government in the United States''. In second and third paragraphs, word ''such'' was inserted after ''any'' and before ''government'', and words ''in the United States'' which followed ''government'' were omitted. In view of these changes, the provisions of subsection (b) of section 10 of title 18, U.S.C., 1940 ed., which defined the term ''government in the United States'' were omitted as unnecessary. Reference to conspiracy to commit any of the prohibited acts was omitted as covered by the general conspiracy provision, incorporated in section 371 of this title. (See reviser's note under that section.) Words ''upon conviction thereof'' which preceded ''be fined'' were omitted as surplusage, as punishment cannot be imposed until a conviction is secured. The phraseology was considerably changed to effect consolidation but without any change of substance. AMENDMENTS 1994 - Pub. L. 103-322 substituted ''fined under this title'' for ''fined not more than $20,000'' in fourth and fifth pars. 1962 - Pub. L. 87-486 defined the terms ''organizes'' and ''organize''. 1956 - Act July 24, 1956, substituted ''$20,000'' for ''$10,000'', and ''twenty years'' for ''ten years'' in the paragraph prescribing penalties applicable to advocating overthrow of government and inserted provisions relating to conspiracy to commit any offense named in this section. EFFECTIVE DATE OF 1956 AMENDMENT Amendment by act July 24, 1956, as applicable only with respect to offenses committed on and after July 24, 1956, see section 3 of act July 24, 1956, set out as a note under section 2384 of this title. CANAL ZONE Applicability of section to Canal Zone, see section 14 of this title. CROSS REFERENCES Alien advocates of overthrow of government, exclusion of, see section 1251 of Title 8, Aliens and Nationality. Disqualification from holding any office of honor, trust, or profit, additional grounds for, see sections 592, 593, 1901, 2071, 2381, and 2387 of this title. Disqualification from holding public office of trust or profit under Guam government, see section 1421b of Title 48, Territories and Insular Possessions. Federal retirement benefits, forfeiture upon conviction of offenses described hereunder, see section 8312 of Title 5, Government Organization and Employees. Forfeiture of veterans' benefits upon conviction under this section see section 6105 of Title 38, Veterans' Benefits. United States nationality as lost by attempting by force to overthrow or bearing arms against the United States, see sections 1481 to 1489 of Title 8, Aliens and Nationality. SECTION REFERRED TO IN OTHER SECTIONS This section is referred to in section 14 of this title; title 5 section 8312; title 8 section 1481; title 38 section 6105; title 50 App. section 34."...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
akarunway 1 #16 October 31, 2006 QuoteYou don't even need to HAVE a gun to be an enemy combatant. Those idiots in FL didn't even have boots.Who? The politicians rigging the voting machinesI hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
