Islamic War?

[Michele 1]

Before you answer, think about this for a moment.

The question is:
How likely is it, do you think, that the US/Western "world" will be in a war along the scale of the Korean War or WWII in our lifetime? Where the war would affect (i.e. rations, draft, et cetera) our "daily" lives? Where it would touch every life in a very direct, personal way?

And what, in your opinion, would precipitate such a war?

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[bobsled92 0]

Quote

Before you answer, think about this for a moment.

The question is:
How likely is it, do you think, that the US/Western "world" will be in a war along the scale of the Korean War or WWII in our lifetime? Where the war would affect (i.e. rations, draft, et cetera) our "daily" lives? Where it would touch every life in a very direct, personal way?

And what, in your opinion, would precipitate such a war?

Ciels-
Michele

A Family (needed) film/documentary to watch, then make a choice: www.obsessionthemovie.com

_______________________________
If I could be a Super Hero,
I chose to be: "GRANT-A-CLAUS". and work 365 days a Year.
http://www.hangout.no/speednews/

[Michele 1]

Quote

A Family (needed) film/documentary to watch, then make a choice:

It's also on YouTube...I've been watching it over the last few days. Not done watching it, but it definitely is interesting.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[bobsled92 0]

Thank you for this Thread.
THis is not One party or another but, survival of
Civial Humanity around the World.

_______________________________
If I could be a Super Hero,
I chose to be: "GRANT-A-CLAUS". and work 365 days a Year.
http://www.hangout.no/speednews/

[Royd 0]

If you are talking about a face to face war with the religion of Islam, where the enemy donns a uniform, probably not.

To armour up without the help of another industrialized nation would take a complete change in their everyday mindset. That is an affront to them.

[Amazon 7]

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How likely is it, do you think, that the US/Western "world" will be in a war along the scale of the Korean War or WWII in our lifetime? Where the war would affect (i.e. rations, draft, et cetera) our "daily" lives? Where it would touch every life in a very direct, personal way?

Depending on the arrogance and policies of this country towards the rest of the world has a huge bearing on it.
When you have a grouip of men who staunchly believe in the rapture and end times prophecies.. and do EVERYTHING they can to bring on those predictions... I think its not too far off to have a global conflict and the fighting centered in the Middle East.. with the islamic world attacking us in ANY way they can here in this country... right thru those porous ports and borders that same group of men have done so little to secure.

[warpedskydiver 0]

Depending on the arrogance and policies of this country towards the rest of the world has a huge bearing on it.
When you have a grouip of men who staunchly believe in the rapture and end times prophecies.. and do EVERYTHING they can to bring on those predictions... I think its not too far off to have a global conflict and the fighting centered in the Middle East.. with the islamic world attacking us in ANY way they can here in this country... right thru those porous ports and borders that same group of men have done so little to secure.

[Skyrad 0]

Quote

Before you answer, think about this for a moment.

The question is:
How likely is it, do you think, that the US/Western "world" will be in a war along the scale of the Korean War or WWII in our lifetime? Where the war would affect (i.e. rations, draft, et cetera) our "daily" lives? Where it would touch every life in a very direct, personal way?

And what, in your opinion, would precipitate such a war?

Ciels-
Michele

I think this is simply fantasy. Its a nonsense. If you are getting your information from programmes like Obsession then I can understand why you fear that this might be the case but its a non starter. For a start although there are Islamic extremists who would love to see this happen they are massivly in the minority. The film has taken clips out of context and fused them together to produce a propergander scare film. Islamic extremists are being fought against by Islamic countries all over the Muslim world. They can't even suceed in taking on a Muslim country on the scale that you're worrying about let alone go to war in a conventional manner against the west.(With maybe the exception of Afghanistan which is a failed state)
Also you make the mistake of lumping all Muslims (Or even all extremists togather) Islamic extremists have different goals and not that many of them are seriouly interested in a global take over of Islam. They are more interested in regional issues. ie:GIA in Algeria, Hamaz and Hezbollah in Israel and in the Lebanon. There are also differet sects of Islam and of Islamic extremists. Just look at the secatarian war that is developing in Iraq between Muslims. The war between Iraq and Iran was a good example of the fractured nature of the extremists. Understanding of the issue has been muddied further by the President and the media using the generic term Al Quieda for Islamic extremist groups regardless of thier cause, belifes or motivation. Al Quieda doesn't exist in the form that is popularly touted, it is now more of an ideology. The Terrorist threat is real but it is just that, a Terrorist Threat. It needs to be countered by Intelligence led Policing operations and by use of Special Forces in Intelligence led operations. Not by Aircraft carriers and tanks on the streets.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[steveorino 7]

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It needs to be countered by Intelligence led Policing operations and by use of Special Forces in Intelligence led operations. Not by Aircraft carriers and tanks on the streets.

Yep, what he said.

steveOrino

[Amazon 7]

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It needs to be countered by Intelligence led Policing operations and by use of Special Forces in Intelligence led operations. Not by Aircraft carriers and tanks on the streets.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Yep, what he said.

The people in power used that as a hit list of what got us to 9/11....saying it did not work.

That approach had most of the world backing us to stem the influence of the terrorists...

Going into Iraq though certainly gace a boost to those who can profit from building all the expensive gadgets that were developed to destroy the Evil Empire as defined by the last Republican group in power.

[Skyrad 0]

Terrorism is a criminal issue to defeat the terrorists its important not to play into their hands and hand them media victory after media victory. Cut off their support amoung the population that sympathises with them drain the swamp, isolate them and negate their ability to strike.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Amazon 7]

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Terrorism is a criminal issue to defeat the terrorists its important not to play into their hands and hand them media victory after media victory. Cut off their support amoung the population that sympathises with them drain the swamp, isolate them and negate their ability to strike.

I consider that to be a MUCH smarter solution.. but unfortunately.. a hell of a lot of damage has been done . Other Countries at this point are not willing to work with the USA because of past performance issues like IRAQ.

[Skyrad 0]

Not accurate. There are many counties working with the US including the UK and many other countries including Pakistan, Saudi and other Islamic countries. Sure there has been alot of damage to the image of the UK and US due to Iraq but I don't belive that the situation is unrecoverable by any means.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Amazon 7]

Personally I wonder how much they TRUELY are working with us...but behind the scenes that support is truely non existent because of what has gone on since early 2003.

[rehmwa 2]

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Personally I wonder how much they TRUELY are working with us...but behind the scenes that support is truely non existent because of what has gone on since early 2003.

AHHH, very nuanced, subtle and well reasoned and supported with data.

But BEHIND the secret veil of mystery which is beyond AND behind the scenes, they are furious gathering nuts.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Skyrad 0]

http://www.economist.com/daily/news/displaystory.cfm?story_id=8101439
The people may not be all that happy with Musharrafs efforts but none the less the efforts continue and wouldn't be able to if Musharraf was the only one.

and Saudi Arabia reguarly execute Islamic extremists.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Amazon 7]

I could have worded it better to something like....

Sure give the US this stale intelligence that will keep them happy...

The timely stuff we will use to protect our country and to hell with the USA.

[billvon 2,991]

>How likely is it, do you think, that the US/Western "world" will be in
>a war along the scale of the Korean War or WWII in our lifetime?

We are already in a war that is approaching the Korean War in scope. Whether it gets bigger from here, or whether we find our way out, is largely our decision to make.

>Where it would touch every life in a very direct, personal way?

Once it starts to do that, support for the war will plummet even more than it has, and the government will not be able to withstand the outcry. If, for example, a draft is reinstated, it will last only as long as the next election, where candidates who oppose the draft will be elected. It would be an easy way to create a one-issue election.

[rehmwa 2]

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support for the war will plummet even more than it has

Once a town is cleaned up, we have to move to another. The first town then decays back to it's previous level of violence and sect vs sect warring without the help of our guys staying there and keeping the peace....

I see more and more of this lately.

I don't see closure without a much more significant effort.

Despite the good intentions and hard work of the troops, I also wonder if we just need to disengage until the Iraqi people decide they "really" want to live in a peaceful culture on their own.

Edit: Support for the 'goal' (stabilizing the cultures of that region) is commendable. But support for the war will wane if the goal looks to be self-defeating by the very populace that needs it.

This is what I think and I hope it's read as not a bash on either political position. It's harder to swallow to assume that each side is sincere in what they consider the 'right' thing to do. It requires one to humanize the other side.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Skyrad 0]

Russia
http://en.rian.ru/society/20050420/39712541.html

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20050525/40416847.html

Spain
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4149741.stm

Africa
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewForeignBureaus.asp?Page=\ForeignBureaus\archive\200510/FOR20051011c.html

Indonisa
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/30032006/143/blair-strikes-indonesian-anti-terror-deal.html

Pakistan
http://www.aljazeera.com/me.asp?service_ID=3237

http://www.dawn.com/2006/09/14/nat4.htm

Saudi Arabia
http://www.bahraintribune.com/ArticleDetail.asp?CategoryId=2&ArticleId=25572

http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000087&sid=absJVcRTz9co&refer=top_world_news

Morocco & Syria
http://www.map.ma/eng/sections/general/terror_suspects_extr/view

Just some examples

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Amazon 7]

Quote

The people may not be all that happy with Musharrafs efforts but none the less the efforts continue and wouldn't be able to if Musharraf was the only one.

and Saudi Arabia reguarly execute Islamic extremists

So Pervez makes a deal with the NW Tribal areas for a place to live for the enemies of both countries..

The Saudi's rarely will even let our people talk to those they supposedly execute...

That is not the kind of co-operation I would expect from our partners in the war on terror.

[Skyrad 0]

Clearly you di not bother to read this link

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http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2516233#2516233

Or you maybe just didn't notice that the date was after the supposed agreement that you mention. As for the Saudi's there is no 'Supposedly' about it, just pop down to Chop Chop square and you can see their heads falling off with your own eyes.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[billvon 2,991]

>Despite the good intentions and hard work of the troops, I also wonder if
>we just need to disengage until the Iraqi people decide they "really" want
>to live in a peaceful culture on their own.

Perhaps - but not a workable solution in today's political climate.

I'm thinking more and more that we pull all US troops into Bagdad, make the whole city a fortified "green zone." With 140,000 troops in Baghdad, it's likely that we'll be able to pacify at least most of it. That will give us our 'victory', give us the PNAC goal of a stable US-friendly government in the Middle East, and save a lot of US lives.

Outside Baghdad, some good and some bad. Kurdistan will do fine; it's doing fine now with minimal intervention, and they'd be happy to be on their own. The Sunni and Shi'a towns will likely see some "ethnic cleansing" but when that's over you'll have two (or three) regions where everyone is either Sunni or Shi'a. There will be intense fighting at the borders, but overall the larger cities will be more peaceful once the sectarian division is removed.

And if one of those cities asks us to come back? Then at least we're there because they wanted us there.

Iran will likely take over some parts of what is currently Iraq, but I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. Having Iran deal with this sort of violence would not be the end of the world.

At this point there are no good solutions, just compromises that are better than others.

[rehmwa 2]

That doesn't sound completely objectionable, but I hate to see people getting 'cleansed' in any city.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[billvon 2,991]

>but I hate to see people getting 'cleansed' in any city.

Me too - but it's happening right now. 100,000 Iraqi refugees are crossing into Syria and Jordan every month to escape the violence. That's 10% of Iraq's population a year. If it's going to happen anyway, why not allow both Shi'a and Sunni a place they can flee to _within_ Iraq?