"How the US Military Hurts the Poor And Uneducated"

[Guest]

From the Strategy Page:

November 10, 2006: A constant in American politics is the assertion that the volunteer army is unfair, because it forces the uneducated and poor to fight, or starve. In actuality, the uneducated (and thus most of the poor) are deliberately excluded from the military. This is a trend that has been going on for over twenty years, and has not been interrupted by the war. For example, the percentage of enlistees from the poorest neighborhoods (those in the lowest 20 percent of household income), went from 18 percent in 1999, to 14 percent last year. The educational levels of American soldiers are well above those of the general American population of the same age and gender. Same with physical and psychological fitness. The American military is basically a force of the above-average that discriminates against the poor and uneducated.
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My emphasis.

mh

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"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[Lucky... 0]

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From the Strategy Page:

November 10, 2006: A constant in American politics is the assertion that the volunteer army is unfair, because it forces the uneducated and poor to fight, or starve. In actuality, the uneducated (and thus most of the poor) are deliberately excluded from the military. This is a trend that has been going on for over twenty years, and has not been interrupted by the war. For example, the percentage of enlistees from the poorest neighborhoods (those in the lowest 20 percent of household income), went from 18 percent in 1999, to 14 percent last year. The educational levels of American soldiers are well above those of the general American population of the same age and gender. Same with physical and psychological fitness. The American military is basically a force of the above-average that discriminates against the poor and uneducated.
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My emphasis.

mh

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The American military is basically a force of the above-average that discriminates against the poor and uneducated.

Please. Yes, the super-elite. Meanwhile doctors and lawyers are comprised of the rejects and retards.

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In actuality, the uneducated (and thus most of the poor) are deliberately excluded from the military.

Oh really? The spit-drooling retarded perhaps, but not the high school dropouts, the fuckups, they are welcomed with open arms.

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For example, the percentage of enlistees from the poorest neighborhoods (those in the lowest 20 percent of household income), went from 18 percent in 1999, to 14 percent last year.

If for some reason the demographics have changed, it's strictly due to the volunteer dynamics have changed, not the requirements overlooking/disqualifying people. When is the last time you've heard of the recruiters turning people away?

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The educational levels of American soldiers are well above those of the general American population of the same age and gender.

Oh please. I would love to see some objective data here.

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Same with physical and psychological fitness.

Now this I will buy, especially with the fat kids of today. Psychological, well, morale can be tough in certain venues, so that varies.

Look, I'm not denograting the military enlistees when I say they aren't as intelligent as their counterparts who go to college. I think the honorable thing to do is to enlist or serve as an officer, but that doesn't mean I can honestly say it is teh intelligent thing to do. If I were smarter then I would have gone to college, which I did years later and lost all the time.

When I read your post, I just think of some military upper NCO or officer telling all the troops how proud he is and how smart they are, smart than the guys who didn't join. When I was in they would try to scare us about the economy and how we would be working at a gas station if we dared to get out. There is a very undisputed psychological training that goes on in the military. Maybe it's not a bad thing, but it definately IS.

[warpedskydiver 0]

I know for a fact you are wrong.

[GQ_jumper 4]

My dear Lucky, do you really forget so quickly? A mere 4 days ago your argument was shut down in another thread, yet you come in here just looking for another excuse to call soldiers stupid and uneducated claiming that everyone elses argument has no ground because it is too small of a sample group. Well you're doing much the same thing when you call all soldiers less educated, I'm sorry if that was the case for YOU when you joined, but using only your own intelligence level at the time of enlistment doesn't constitute a sample of the whole military.

Here let me refresh your memory a bit as to what was said to disprove your theory earlier, Lucky's Argument

I personally love the paragraph at the end talking about whose accomplishments(the soldiers or a quitter's) will be remembered by society in years to come.

Take care

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

[downwardspiral 0]

I'm confused....how can anyone be forced to volunteer? Even when a judge sentences a criminal to the military the judge gives them the option of jail time.

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[Lucky... 0]

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I know for a fact you are wrong.

About???

[Lucky... 0]

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My dear Lucky, do you really forget so quickly? A mere 4 days ago your argument was shut down in another thread, yet you come in here just looking for another excuse to call soldiers stupid and uneducated claiming that everyone elses argument has no ground because it is too small of a sample group. Well you're doing much the same thing when you call all soldiers less educated, I'm sorry if that was the case for YOU when you joined, but using only your own intelligence level at the time of enlistment doesn't constitute a sample of the whole military.

Here let me refresh your memory a bit as to what was said to disprove your theory earlier, Lucky's Argument

I personally love the paragraph at the end talking about whose accomplishments(the soldiers or a quitter's) will be remembered by society in years to come.

Take care

Dear Warped, how was it shut down?

I'm not calling them stupid, but if we took a cross section of GI's, all of them not the ones cherry pickedby the military, you would see a great deficiency as compared to those kids n college. I bet you might see a close comparison to those kids who left high school with or w/o degree, then went on to labor jobs.

As for sample group, this explains the 'shut down' part of you argument. Thsi illustrates you current education as you would have the other 10 guys in your squadron, platoon, etc represent the entire US military. Anyine who knows squat about stats knows that sample size is one of the most important attributes of a survey. Other uneducated guys use their life experience. There's a name for witnesses who use their life expeience to attest to probability: professors as in PhD's. These guys can be used as professional witnesses. See, it all comes back to education... so sorry.

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Well you're doing much the same thing when you call all soldiers less educated...

You're showing where you're comming from when you misquote me as saying that all soldiers are less educated. I said to the effect that as an averahe, enlisted guys are less educated. There are stnadouts in every group, but as an average I believe that GI's would score lower on an IQ test than their contemporaries in college; that's what I said/wrote.

Then we had a former oficer pop in to tell me how wrong I am and used his OFFICER experience as a basis, when I stated I was talking enlisted. I realize it's the Rah-rah factor, which teh military needs, you are well-trained in that aspect. But understand that because you like someone or some group, that doesn't promote them to genius.

Furthermore, I'm not doing the same thing when I say that enlisted troops are less educated as it's my opinion, not fact.

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...I'm sorry if that was the case for YOU when you joined, but using only your own intelligence level at the time of enlistment doesn't constitute a sample of the whole military.

My experiences then and now were/are that people don't run to teh military becuase they like some SOB with bad breath to be up in their face, they do it for the most part becuase their life sucks. I do think there was a recent anomoly with 911 where people enlisted for reasons of patriotism, but last I checked the Navy and AF had met their enlistment goals, the Army and Marines had not; correct me if I'm wrong.

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Here let me refresh your memory a bit as to what was said to disprove your theory earlier, Lucky's Argument

I asserted, "enlisted" from the start, then this officer jumps in..... perhaps that gives me license to extend my argument to officers as well. Nah, anyone who goes to college right after high school is at least making a smart chioce, whether they are actually smart or not.

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I personally love the paragraph at the end talking about whose accomplishments(the soldiers or a quitter's) will be remembered by society in years to come.

Which ones, quote em as I don't feel like recycling that garbage again.

[Lucky... 0]

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I'm confused....how can anyone be forced to volunteer? Even when a judge sentences a criminal to the military the judge gives them the option of jail time.

It's usually a voluntary diversion program; get butt-slammed by bubba or go get your head blown off for our corporate war.... either way you will be working for the betterment of a corporation.

[warpedskydiver 0]

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I'm confused....how can anyone be forced to volunteer? Even when a judge sentences a criminal to the military the judge gives them the option of jail time.

It's usually a voluntary diversion program; get butt-slammed by bubba or go get your head blown off for our corporate war.... either way you will be working for the betterment of a corporation.

[Amazon 7]

Lucky.

Today is the day that we remember all of those who have sacrificed for this country. It is to honor them.
For whatever their motivations.. however they got there... they have served.

IT is not a day to dishonor that memory in ANY way whatsoever.

[juanesky 0]

And you actually read the bullshit he writes? LOL

He hates his experience on the military (If Any). Sometimes I doubt he ever served. Never heard of the expresson "upper NCO" before, wonder where h got that from.

He should look up the fact that High School drop outs won't make it in the military, as they need HS to enlist.

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[warpedskydiver 0]

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And you actually read the bullshit he writes? LOL

He hates his experience on the military (If Any). Sometimes I doubt he ever served. Never heard of the expresson "upper NCO" before, wonder where h got that from.

He should look up the fact that High School drop outs won't make it in the military, as they need HS to enlist.

That is why I threw the shitstained flag.

I smelled bullshit.

[Lucky... 0]

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I'm confused....how can anyone be forced to volunteer? Even when a judge sentences a criminal to the military the judge gives them the option of jail time.

It's usually a voluntary diversion program; get butt-slammed by bubba or go get your head blown off for our corporate war.... either way you will be working for the betterment of a corporation.

OK I am throwing the BULLSHIT FLAG.

[Lucky... 0]

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Lucky.

Today is the day that we remember all of those who have sacrificed for this country. It is to honor them.
For whatever their motivations.. however they got there... they have served.

IT is not a day to dishonor that memory in ANY way whatsoever.

1) How am I dishonoring them

2) I am one of them

[Lucky... 0]

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And you actually read the bullshit he writes? LOL

He hates his experience on the military (If Any). Sometimes I doubt he ever served. Never heard of the expresson "upper NCO" before, wonder where h got that from.

He should look up the fact that High School drop outs won't make it in the military, as they need HS to enlist.

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And you actually read the bullshit he writes?

Oh please, more conservative rhetoric...keep it rolling.

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He hates his experience on the military (If Any). Sometimes I doubt he ever served. Never heard of the expresson "upper NCO" before, wonder where h got that from.

My experience was mixed, glad I got out like the rest of you claimn to love it, but got out first chance they could too. Yea, that makes assloads of sense, praise how great it is, yet run the fuck away as soon as possible.

Upper NCO means upper ranking NCO's. Is that sooooo difficult?

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He should look up the fact that High School drop outs won't make it in the military, as they need HS to enlist

Or get a GED. Furthermore, I bet the Army is waiving that.

[Lucky... 0]

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And you actually read the bullshit he writes? LOL

He hates his experience on the military (If Any). Sometimes I doubt he ever served. Never heard of the expresson "upper NCO" before, wonder where h got that from.

He should look up the fact that High School drop outs won't make it in the military, as they need HS to enlist.

That is why I threw the shitstained flag.

I smelled bullshit.

Let's see, I address the issues, you call BS with no explanation.... who's shit stinks?

[downwardspiral 0]

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I'm confused....how can anyone be forced to volunteer? Even when a judge sentences a criminal to the military the judge gives them the option of jail time.

It's usually a voluntary diversion program; get butt-slammed by bubba or go get your head blown off for our corporate war.... either way you will be working for the betterment of a corporation.

OK I am throwing the BULLSHIT FLAG.

I guess it beats having to actually create a response.

[Amazon 7]

I think that today of all days... that arguements about the military could just go away...its suppsed to be about rememberance....I am remembering in a very somber mood.

[skycop 0]

We serve so guys like that can rant and rave, I just nod and smile like I do when I encounter war protesters.
Ya know the old saying, "arguing on the internet is like.............." LOL

Oh yea, I'm one of 'dem "upper NCO's"
My tag line says it all................

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[Lucky... 0]

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I'm confused....how can anyone be forced to volunteer? Even when a judge sentences a criminal to the military the judge gives them the option of jail time.

It's usually a voluntary diversion program; get butt-slammed by bubba or go get your head blown off for our corporate war.... either way you will be working for the betterment of a corporation.

OK I am throwing the BULLSHIT FLAG.

I guess it beats having to actually create a response.

His reply made sense tho.

[Lucky... 0]

Yea, well thx for directing that at me only . I don't get all fuzzy on holidays. I really dislike the idea of acting differently on birthdays, holidays, etc...

[Lucky... 0]

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We serve so guys like that can rant and rave, I just nod and smile like I do when I encounter war protesters.
Ya know the old saying, "arguing on the internet is like.............." LOL

Oh yea, I'm one of 'dem "upper NCO's"
My tag line says it all................

I was military, so do I have more of a right to bitch than others do? I dunno, I don't really think so, but for people who do think like that I guess I do. I just like the way thee a few peiople enagaing in this thread and it's all about me.

[Michele 1]

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Look, I'm not denograting the military enlistees when I say they aren't as intelligent as their counterparts who go to college.

You most certainly are denigrating them...no doubt or question. And I think that's completely wrong to do, especially on this of all days.

And frankly, I think you're out of line.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[Amazon 7]

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I don't get all fuzzy on holidays. I really dislike the idea of acting differently on birthdays, holidays, etc...

It is about respect.... for those who are not here that we get.. not warm and fuzzy but sad and in this case fighing thru tears. I lost someone to a war...and I served for 8 years myself. I am willing to pay my respect to those who are no longer with us.

Today is about respecting those who are not with us... those that paid a disproportiate price for the freedoms you are certainly taking advantage of. It is also about respecting and paying tribute to all who have served and to those serving now.

[TheAnvil 0]

After you read the budget - or at least skim it - and CBO projections on future budgets, you might also want to spend some time with some military recruiters, since you tend to post about such things with some regularity.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!