"How the US Military Hurts the Poor And Uneducated"

[juanesky 0]

Hey Hero, First of all when I'm referring to HS diploma, it means either through a HS, or GED program.

Fact is not based on a bet or any negative emotions you may have on the military. Don't bet on the Army waiving that requirement, a simple search would have given you this answer. Don't bet anything next time, just look it up as many in here with far more experience in the subject have told you.

To refer to NCO's at higher level the word is "senior". You shoud at least learn about the topic before sticking your foot in your mouth. Otherwise and E-6 is always going to be the upper of an e-5 ans so forth. IMO.

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[Lucky... 0]

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Hey Hero, First of all when I'm referring to HS diploma, it means either through a HS, or GED program.

OK slick, do you really want me to believe that a GED is the same as a hign school diploma? I dropped out after the 10th, never really attending class, average GPA 1.00ish. I went and walked all over that GED at 17, so do you want me to believe that it's the same?

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Fact is not based on a bet or any negative emotions you may have on the military. Don't bet on the Army waiving that requirement, a simple search would have given you this answer.

I don't know for a fact, but I do know they can waive anything they want, be it criminal background, education, etc.. And in time of need, they do. I don't have negative emotions of the military, thanks for transposing that to me. I think the world of people who serve, especially enlisted.

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Don't bet anything next time, just look it up as many in here with far more experience in the subject have told you.

Enlighten me with your 20 some years of experience. Again, they can waive whatever they want, care to challenge that? When I enlisted the recruiter said it makes it easier if I just got the GED, but they could work around it if I couldn't pass or refused to test. AND THAT WAS THE AIR FORCE.

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To refer to NCO's at higher level the word is "senior".

Let's get semantic since YOU don't have an argument. Upper level, senior, higher-ups, superior, these are all words to describe NCO's above you.

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You shoud at least learn about the topic before sticking your foot in your mouth. Otherwise and E-6 is always going to be the upper of an e-5 ans so forth

Where was the foot in the mouth? I knew of the topic b4 you did and altho it evolves, much of it stays the same. So how did I not infer or state that an E-6 is going to be the upper of an E-5? You make no sense.

To get it back on topic, take that GED into your SAT's and see how things go. Wanna bet who scores higher? Take that GED and 2.0 undergrad degree into grad school and see how things go. You make my points. THX

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I don't get all fuzzy on holidays. I really dislike the idea of acting differently on birthdays, holidays, etc...

It is about respect.... for those who are not here that we get.. not warm and fuzzy but sad and in this case fighing thru tears. I lost someone to a war...and I served for 8 years myself. I am willing to pay my respect to those who are no longer with us.

Today is about respecting those who are not with us... those that paid a disproportiate price for the freedoms you are certainly taking advantage of. It is also about respecting and paying tribute to all who have served and to those serving now.

Let me give you little story here.....not trying to patronize you or to condescend you, just a little story.

I had a guy at work, Danny Frazier, kill himself when he went drinking, came home and was showing a 9mm to his friends. He dropped the clip and put it to his head thinking it would be unloaded. You know what happened.

He wasn't super close, but a great guy, in fact an Army vet. So to pay tribute to him, the last thing he was working on were some seat track splices for an Alitalia MD-11, so we finished them and made stencils reading, "In memory of Daniel Frazier, gave his date of birth/death." Anyway, we installed them to some protest from others who thought it was against policy - fuck em.

I went to the wake like many co-wrkers did, 1 manager as they're basically slime as we all know . I gave a card to his family, he was only 30 with a 7YO daughter who was sleeping when he killed himself, so his family took custody and had a big battle after that to keep her away from the ex who was a druggy. I wrote them a letter and explained what we did and it really shook them in a big way, they sent me pics of his daughter, their beacon of life at at that point.

Anyway, there was an elder at work who was a good friend of Dannys who didn't attend the wake. We were getting all the people we could to attend the wake and I asked him if he was going. He declined. I said that Danny would spend the day helping him move or whatever if asked, yet he won't go to this final ceremony. I said it really sucked. He replied by telling me that my thinking was finite, that he didn't like wakes.

At the time I was thinking, FU, but as time goes, people have the right to celebrate how they wish w/o the intervention of others. And to assign a way to greive for someone else is disrespectful of their emotions. I'm not worried about semantic birthdays, anniversaries, etc... I tend to have constant thought year round. I really despise relationships where people treat each other well one day a year, like shit the rest.

Point is, I didn't OBJECTIVELY disparge anyone, I merely celebrate my own way.... peace.

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After you read the budget - or at least skim it - and CBO projections on future budgets, you might also want to spend some time with some military recruiters, since you tend to post about such things with some regularity.

After you actually make an argument I'll addreess it. Make the argument by subject, topic, ect... Pose an issue, support it with evidence.

[Lucky... 0]

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After you read the budget - or at least skim it - and CBO projections on future budgets, you might also want to spend some time with some military recruiters, since you tend to post about such things with some regularity.

I hear if you scrape the big stuff off your shoes it makes it easier to clean the rest.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15197832/

Altho they claim they require HS diploma, which means GED (joke), the other article states:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2006/10/01/ING42LCIGK1.DTL

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...a "joint marketing communications and market research and studies" program designed to attract, among others, dropouts and those with criminal records for military service, ...

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In February, the Baltimore Sun wrote that there was "a significant increase in the number of recruits with what the Army terms 'serious criminal misconduct' in their background" -- a category that included "aggravated assault, robbery, vehicular manslaughter, receiving stolen property and making terrorist threats." From 2004 to 2005, the number of those recruits rose by more than 54 percent, while alcohol and illegal drug waivers, reversing a four-year decline, increased by more than 13 percent.

So criminals are up, druggies are down. Notice teh word, "waiver" in there? Hell, you can get into law school if they decide to take you w/o an undergrad degree.

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." In fact, as the military's own data indicated, "the percentage of recruits entering the Army with waivers for misdemeanors and medical problems has more than doubled since 2001."

And more....

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One beneficiary of the Army's new moral-waiver policies gained a certain prominence this summer. After Steven Green, who served in the 101st Airborne Division, was charged in a rape and quadruple murder in Mahmudiyah, Iraq, it was disclosed that he had been "a high-school dropout from a broken home who enlisted to get some direction in his life, yet was sent home early because of an anti-social personality disorder."

Fishing.....

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With Green in jail awaiting trial, the Houston Chronicle reported in August that Army recruiters were trolling around the outskirts of a Dallas-area job fair for ex-convicts.

Right.....

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The Army has even looked behind prison bars for fill-in recruits -- in one reported case, they went to a "youth prison" in Ogden, Utah. Although Steven Price had asked to see a recruiter while still incarcerated, he was "barely 17 when he enlisted last January" and his divorced parents say "recruiters used false promises and forged documents to enlist him."

Finally:

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With a growing majority of Americans opposed to the war in Iraq and even ardent hawks refusing to enlist in droves, new policies creating a lower-quality officer corps and the Pentagon pulling out ever more stops and sinking to new lows to recruit and train troops, a new all-volunteer generation of UUUU's may emerge -- the underachieving, unable, unexceptional, unintelligent, unsound, unhinged, unacceptable, unhealthy, undesirable, unloved and uncivil -- all led by the unqualified, doing the unnecessary for the ungrateful.

[Lucky... 0]

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After you read the budget - or at least skim it - and CBO projections on future budgets, you might also want to spend some time with some military recruiters, since you tend to post about such things with some regularity.

Even more:

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To allow more recruits to join, the Army last fall amended its rule that it can sign up no more than 2 percent of recruits who score between 15 and 30 out of 99 on the Army's aptitude test. Now, up to 4 percent of Army recruits can score under 30 on the aptitude test, which measures such things as the applicants' knowledge of mathematics and command of the English language, said Lt. Col. Bryan Hilferty, an Army spokesman.

Aha...

http://www.refuseandresist.org/war/art.php?aid=1840

He said the Army has already added recruiters and taken measures to expand the pool of potential soldiers, by accepting older recruits and more people without high school diplomas. Other changes are being considered, he said.

Still, they must sign up two recruits a month. Anyone with outstanding criminal cases, health problems or poor test scores is disqualified. Most months, at least one must have a high school diploma and score in the top 50 percent of an aptitude test.


For the first time since 1998, the Army has lowered its standards, last week increasing its age limit for Reserve and National Guard recruits to 39. Last year, it agreed to accept thousands more recruits without high school diplomas.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2006/02/02/waivers/index_np.html

Facing an enlistment crisis, the Army is granting "waivers" to an increasingly high percentage of recruits with criminal records -- and trying to hide it.


It was about 10 p.m. on Sept. 1, 2002, when a drug deal was arranged in the parking lot of a mini-mall in Newark, Del. The car with the drugs, driven by a man who would become a recruit for the Delaware Air National Guard, pulled up next to a parked car that was waiting for the exchange. Everything was going smoothly until the cops arrived.

[Royd 0]

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I don't know for a fact, but I do know they can waive anything they want, be it criminal background, education, etc.. And in time of need, they do. I don't have negative emotions of the military, thanks for transposing that to me. I think the world of people who serve, especially enlisted.

Remember"The Dirty Dozen."

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I don't know for a fact, but I do know they can waive anything they want, be it criminal background, education, etc.. And in time of need, they do. I don't have negative emotions of the military, thanks for transposing that to me. I think the world of people who serve, especially enlisted.

Remember"The Dirty Dozen."

Meaning it's good to have criminals in the service??? OK and I guess we should exonerate them when they murder people in wartime then. I thought the idea was to raise the bar????

Oh well, I think I have established that the demographic of the service enlistees has fallen. I think they are less educated, less ethical AS AN AVERAGE.

[TheAnvil 0]

Like I said...you really should - once you skim the budget and familiarize yourself with it a bit - spend some time with military recruiters.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[Lucky... 0]

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Like I said...you really should - once you skim the budget and familiarize yourself with it a bit - spend some time with military recruiters.

You've done nothing, you even avoided my pages of replies. Jebus, we get it, you have no relply.

[Royd 0]

Remember"The Dirty Dozen."

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Meaning it's good to have criminals in the service??? OK and I guess we should exonerate them when they murder people in wartime then. I thought the idea was to raise the bar????

Oh well, I think I have established that the demographic of the service enlistees has fallen. I think they are less educated, less ethical AS AN AVERAGE.

Should I have used an icon, or don't you recognize tongue in cheek humor?

[TheAnvil 0]

Again - read the budget, spend time with recruiters, revise your opinions accordingly, then get back with us.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[Lucky... 0]

My bad

[Lucky... 0]

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Again - read the budget, spend time with recruiters, revise your opinions accordingly, then get back with us.

Write out your point...don't forget to cite my data and info.

[juanesky 0]

So you don't know for a fact, yet you know? How interesting...

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[juanesky 0]

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I don't know for a fact, but I do know they can waive anything they want, be it criminal background, education, etc.. And in time of need, they do. I don't have negative emotions of the military, thanks for transposing that to me. I think the world of people who serve, especially enlisted.

Remember"The Dirty Dozen."

Meaning it's good to have criminals in the service??? OK and I guess we should exonerate them when they murder people in wartime then. I thought the idea was to raise the bar????

Oh well, I think I have established that the demographic of the service enlistees has fallen. I think they are less educated, less ethical AS AN AVERAGE.

Well, it's seems that based on your own admissions you don't know for fact, yet you know by hunch that we are less ethical. Right.....

Perhaps one day you will be able to understand how the military has changed a a whole, and how greater length is emphasized about rules of engagement (ROE's) procedures, etc. You have no idea the pressures nowadays about law of war, etc, but that is all wasted as you ave conveyed that based on your experience 20 years ago, you know enough to make such uneducated guesses....

Happy vet day hero...and thanks for lumping us all in the same (self admitted ignorance on the subject) boat as your own self (a far as being dumb, unethical, etc).

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

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So you don't know for a fact, yet you know? How interesting...

Don't know what for a fact? Could you shield your lack of a counterargument any more with your ambiguity? At least quote what I'm supposed to answer.

[Lucky... 0]

Hey man, I don't need the personal attack:

self admitted ignorance on the subject) boat as your own self (a far as being dumb, unethical, etc).

I also don't need the entire thing in bold, but that isn't against the rules.

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Well, it's seems that based on your own admissions you don't know for fact, yet you know by hunch that we are less ethical. Right.....

No, I posted several sites that no one has replied to yet that clearly state the Army is lowering the bar to meet their needs. The Navy and Air Force aren't, as they are meeting their needs. Again, I'm talking average, not individual. There are some sharpies in the enlisted ranks, which makes it easy to WAPS (former test for the AF) test over the ones who are less than bright. All I;m saying is that if we tested 1% of the enlisted ranks for IQ, then tested 1% of college kids, the latter would score higher. The former would be in better shape as someone said, but I stand by my assertion that college kids are smarter than enlisted troops. I think I have supported that assertion with several sites that, again, no one has bothered replying to.

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but that is all wasted as you ave conveyed that based on your experience 20 years ago, you know enough to make such uneducated guesses....

I think it's supported with the myriad of various sites that report how they are accepting kids w/o high school, accepting criminals, etc..

[billvon 2,991]

Your one warning.

[juanesky 0]

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I don't know for a fact, but I do know they can waive anything they want,.....

What's the matter, can't you read your own posts?

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

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I don't know for a fact, but I do know they can waive anything they want,.....

What's the matter, can't you read your own posts?

What that does is to assert a very string opinion, but unlike you guys, I'm not stating it as fact.

Common knowledge: when a person has no argument they refer strictly to spelling, grammar, syntax. COme on, address all of the avoided issues I posted, like the articles about lowering standards for GI's. Let's see it, explain letting gang bangers in, lowering scores and now even accepting recruits without high school diplomas.

[warpedskydiver 0]

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Your one warning.

Bill I didn't see anything needing a warning

[Amazon 7]

a PA is a PA... I know how touchy Bill is on this....

[Zipp0 1]

OK, who held up military officers as an example of intelligence in the US military?

Yeah, real smart - get an education and THEN join the military. Nice. IQ, maybe, but definitely not very bright.

(that was satire, and I was enlisted, so I may have a skewed opinion on the subject)

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.