Origin of the species, where do you stand?

[jcd11235 0]

Quote

So where did "The Designer" decide to put humans (other than "where they belong") to wait out the Jurassic, Triassic, and Cretacious periods where we don't find any human or primate fossils but we find plenty of now extinct lifeforms? Were they waiting in a volcano for an upheaval?

Duh. In the Garden of Eden. Do try and keep up.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[shropshire 0]

<
I believe that the Earth is the only sphere amongst the millions or billions out there that sustains any form of life. >>

I mean no disrespect Royd, but would you please enlighten me, on what do you base these beliefs?

.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[SpeedRacer 1]

how can one little moon 1/6 th the diameter of earth, and thousands of miles away be some kind of effective shield against meteors??

The reason it has so many craters is 1) no atmosphere to burn up small meteors as they enter and 2) no water/air/plant life to erode or cover up craters after they are made.

Speed Racer
--------------------------------------------------

[Andy9o8 2]

Quote

New map on human genetic variation unveiled

LONDON (Reuters) - An international team of scientists unveiled on Wednesday a new human genetic map, or "book of life," that fills in missing pages and chapters to explain how genes are involved in common diseases.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061122/ts_nm/science_genes_dc

[shropshire 0]

I think that he may be correct about the moon... Gravity is a very strong force... Maybe the Proff can confirm this.

It doesn't mean that it was put there by some mystic hand.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[hairyjuan 0]

THOMAS JEFFERSON: Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man

we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively


wishers never choose, choosers never wish

[kallend 2,106]

Quote

Quote

New map on human genetic variation unveiled

LONDON (Reuters) - An international team of scientists unveiled on Wednesday a new human genetic map, or "book of life," that fills in missing pages and chapters to explain how genes are involved in common diseases.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061122/ts_nm/science_genes_dc

It's a conspiracy - the black helicopters are already on their way.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,106]

Quote

I think that he may be correct about the moon... Gravity is a very strong force... Maybe the Proff can confirm this.

It doesn't mean that it was put there by some mystic hand.

To be pedantic, gravity is the weakest of the known forces, but it operates over very long range and is always attractive.

Normal celestial mechanics is all that's needed to explain the Moon. I suppose Jupiter and Saturn have so many moons because their inhabitants need more protection from meteors.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[skysaintj 0]

Degeneration : the end of the evolution theory

http://www.evolutionisdegeneration.com/index.asp?PaginaID=1102

Latest news !!

Not EVOLUTION, but DEVOLUTION

...huh !! evilution - devilution ...what da ...never mind

Me myself and i.....

If at first, the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it

[Stumpy 284]

Oh dear. And people take this stuff seriously?

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[skysaintj 0]

Quote

Oh dear. And people take this stuff seriously?

Desperate must be serious i agree

If at first, the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it

[skysaintj 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

New map on human genetic variation unveiled

LONDON (Reuters) - An international team of scientists unveiled on Wednesday a new human genetic map, or "book of life," that fills in missing pages and chapters to explain how genes are involved in common diseases.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061122/ts_nm/science_genes_dc

It's a conspiracy - the black helicopters are already on their way.

Degeneration theory ..?

http://www.evolutionisdegeneration.com/index.asp?PaginaID=1102

and

http://www.ideacenter.org/contentmgr/showdetails.php/id/1096

Kallend & Billvon what is your view on this ? really interested

If at first, the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it

[jakee 1,563]

Quote

...huh !! evilution - devilution ...what da ...never mind

Me myself and i.....

Oh is that what you were doing earlier, thats just so clever! Y'know, first time you did it - I didn't even notice. How embarrased am I!!

But I can totally see it now, you've changed one letter, and now evolution is evil! Thats just so clever - I would never have thought of doing that. Did you think that up all by yourself? Did you? Wow thats just great - I'm going to have to remember that one - evilution - wow, seriously, thats genius, really is. You can't see me, but I'm giving you a round of applause 'cos thats just blown me away -so inventive with the o and the i and the different meanings....

Well done you!

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[JackC 0]

Quote

But I can totally see it now, you've changed one letter, and now evolution is evil! Thats just so clever - I would never have thought of doing that. Did you think that up all by yourself? Did you? Wow thats just great - I'm going to have to remember that one - evilution - wow, seriously, thats genius, really is. You can't see me, but I'm giving you a round of applause 'cos thats just blown me away -so inventive with the o and the i and the different meanings....

Well done you!

I don't think you mean that.

[skysaintj 0]

Quote

Quote

...huh !! evilution - devilution ...what da ...never mind

Me myself and i.....

Oh is that what you were doing earlier, thats just so clever! Y'know, first time you did it - I didn't even notice. How embarrased am I!!

But I can totally see it now, you've changed one letter, and now evolution is evil! Thats just so clever - I would never have thought of doing that. Did you think that up all by yourself? Did you? Wow thats just great - I'm going to have to remember that one - evilution - wow, seriously, thats genius, really is. You can't see me, but I'm giving you a round of applause 'cos thats just blown me away -so inventive with the o and the i and the different meanings....

Well done you!

- please review the link , do you have a view on that jubilz ?

If at first, the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it

[jakee 1,563]

Quote

Sorry, you just seemed so proud of yourself I thought I'd chip in with some moral support.

Quote

please review the link , do you have a view on that jubilz ?

Well, I must admit I have no idea what jubilz means but I did read the article.

Basically - it's confused. Beyond the standard macro/micro dead horse whipping at the start the author trots out a bunch of ill thought out examples that, ironically, don't really conflict with evolutionary theory.

The author seems to believe that if he can show examples of animals that have lost some functionality that this will negate evolution, thats just wrong. Survival of the fittest does not mean survival of the most complex. It means survival of the best adapted life form for X environment. Often this means gaining something new, sometimes it means discarding/changing/disconnecting something old.

Some of the examples put forward on the page are shockingly bad - for example human hereditary illnesses. Why no mention of the benefits of sickle cell disease? And No4, the non-flying Cormorant. They seem to be suggesting that it has lost a gene that says "Fly" (even if that were correct, of course no mention of gaining a gene that would say "Swim").

Huge amounts of conjecture - extremely light on anything approaching science.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[kallend 2,106]

Quote

Kallend & Billvon what is your view on this ? really interested

My view is that if you spent the time to read what evolutionary theory is all about and review the overwhelming body of evidence from multiple scientific disciplines that are consistent with it, and less time looking for half-baked and silly disproofs that are based on deliberate misrepresentations, you'd be a lot better off.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[jakee 1,563]

Oh I nearly forgot - It did provide me with the funniest quote I've seen in a long while...

Quote

Besides these things, creationism provides an everlasting stream of publications.

If creationism provides a steady stream of articles worthy of academic publication then the torrent of articles supporting evolution would outflow the Amazon, the Nile, the Zambesi, the Colorado, the Mississippi, the Rhine and the Indus put together.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Andy9o8 2]

Quote

Oh I nearly forgot - It did provide me with the funniest quote I've seen in a long while...

Quote

Besides these things, creationism provides an everlasting stream of publications.

If creationism provides a steady stream of articles worthy of academic publication then the torrent of articles supporting evolution would outflow the Amazon, the Nile, the Zambesi, the Colorado, the Mississippi, the Rhine and the Indus put together.

But not the Tigris and Euphrates, which are in Iraq. Why do you support the war in Iraq?

[jakee 1,563]

Quote

Quote

Oh I nearly forgot - It did provide me with the funniest quote I've seen in a long while...

Quote

Besides these things, creationism provides an everlasting stream of publications.

If creationism provides a steady stream of articles worthy of academic publication then the torrent of articles supporting evolution would outflow the Amazon, the Nile, the Zambesi, the Colorado, the Mississippi, the Rhine and the Indus put together.

But not the Tigris and Euphrates, which are in Iraq. Why do you support the war in Iraq?

Does that mean I also support the civil war in the Congo?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Stumpy 284]

Quote

Quote

Oh dear. And people take this stuff seriously?

Desperate must be serious i agree

The fact that you even posted this link shows that you do not properly understand evolutionary theory, and the line that takes the cake is:

Quote

The most logical explanation for the generation of life, and for the information inside DNA, is that an Intelligent Creator preprogrammed the DNA.

Hmmmm, they must be using a definition of "logical" that had previously escaped me and the rest of the english speaking world.

Its all pasta anyway. So sayeth the FSM

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[billvon 3,070]

>Kallend & Billvon what is your view on this ?

Much of the article concerns things Paj and I have been discussing, so I won't repeat those points. A few comments:

"Besides these things, creationism provides an everlasting stream of publications."

Muslim scholars produce an everlasting stream of scholarly articles discussing how Islam is a superior religion. Does that mean you're converting soon? "Prolific" does not equal "accurate."

"Just as a computer-program is not created through a combination of copy-errors and selection, also the complex information inside DNA did not spring forth from copy-errors and selection."

Most computer programs do not evolve; they are specifically written not to change as they are copied. When you write a computer program to allow evolution, then new behaviors DO arise from random changes and selection. So this point really proves the opposite of what it claims to.

"Many biochemical systems, such as blood clotting, 'light-sensitivity' of the eyes, and the 'engine' (flagellum) of a bacteria, are completely useless if only one part (gene) is missing."

All of these have been proven wrong; there ARE reducible complexities in all those examples. Half a clotting mechanism makes a good digestive enzyme. Half a flagellum motor makes an ionic pump, something that all cells need to survive. Light sensitive cells allow organisms to determine when it's night or day, even if they can't "see" with them.

"One example is hemoglobin, which transports oxygen in the blood. Not a single individual can miss it. So basically, there is no significant evolution in those kind of genes."

Ah, but there IS significant evolution in the genes that code for the red blood cells that carry hemoglobin. Sickle cell anemia is a negative genetic trait, but having even one gene for the disease confers resistance to malaria - so the trait has been kept.

"and once a whole population lost the original genes, they will never return, because the information inside genes is too complex to originate from dysfunctional genes."

Incorrect. In rare cases, humans are born with functional tails - they are enervated, vascularized and have musculature attached to them. So that statement is incorrect; genetic traits that seem lost sometimes _do_ return.

"On the long run a species or population tends to lose genes and qualities which it doesn't necessarily need to survive."

Correct. And in the long run, new genes that DO help the organism to survive are kept. A good example is the recently observed mutation in the Ser447-Stop gene. This increases HDL cholesterol (the good kind) and is therefore a beneficial mutation in our modern high-fat society. If it helps people survive and have more offspring, it will be retained ("amplified" in evolutionary terms.) Which means someday people will have evolved a bit more resistance to heart disease.

"Mutations occur randomly and one single mutation can be enough to disable a gene completely (just like a typing-mismatch will block computer-instructions). Therefor all the genes of a species have the risk to be eliminated sooner or later."

They are also "at risk" of being improved, as in the example above.

"When biological change that happens today and can be observed, shows us that species go genetically downhill . . . "

That's absurd. A new gene that lets us better survive a new (high fat) environment is not a "downhill" move. Squirrels that evolve looser skin so they can spread their arms and legs and glide are not "devolving." Fish that evolve legs so they can run away from predators are not "going downhill."

[br0k3n 0]

Quote

I believe that the Earth is the only sphere amongst the millions or billions out there that sustains any form of life.

Watch this

-----------------------------------------------------------
--+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

[jakee 1,563]

Quote

Quote

I believe that the Earth is the only sphere amongst the millions or billions out there that sustains any form of life.

Watch this

A pretty high res version of the HUDF can be found here (I strongly recommend taking an hour or so to look through the archives of that site - it's truly humbling) and a cool Q and A about the image can be found here.

Some of the facts that jump out - 10,000 galaxies in a patch of sky that appears smaller than a large crater on the moon, light from the faintest objects reached the telescope at a rate of less than 1 photon per minute, and the image took 11.3 days of exposure time to build up.

And one more thing you need to look at it to find out - it is amazingly beautiful

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,563]

Which reminds me - what possible explanation can strict creationists have to gel the incredible size, beauty and complexity of the universe with their conviction of being the only intelligent life?

Along with the solar system God (completely unneccesarily) creates an entire universe of staggering immensity, variety and wonder, populated with wierd and wonderful objects like black holes, neutron stars, quasars and pulsars, billions of galaxies and star clusters, sprawling nebula's spawning new stars from the galactic debris - yet he only makes one species on one planet deemed worthy of a soul....... and then what?

Did he get bored and wander off? Did he believe he had achieved perfection? (not likely) Did shepherding us through the Old Testament trials and tribulations warrant every piece of his attention?

So, honest question to all the creationists out there - do you truly believe that all of it is just for us? If so why do you think god stopped with humans?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?