Origin of the species, where do you stand?

[Royd 0]

All of the conditions are simply not there as a complete group to sustain life.

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And just how the fuck do you know that? Have you looked at all the planets in even just this galaxy?

Your astronomy is as bad as your biology.

By the reasoning presented here, the ability for life to create itself and start changing to become something else should not be restricted by such things as a surface temperature of 500 degrees or 200 degrees below zero, or the presence of gases that would cause us to drop dead in 2 seconds. Life should be able to seek its own level within its own environment.

Evolutionists should be in bed with those who believe in space aliens.

Given the billions of years for progress to happen, there should be beings out there who are so far advanced that they could come and go without so much as a trace of evidence.

Maybe we're nothing more than some child's science project.

Let's open up those minds and think large!

[Royd 0]

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Order comes from chaos all the time. A hurricane is a good example.

We have consensus. Katrina cleaned up the mess known as New Orleans in just a few short hours.

[jcd11235 0]

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Order comes from chaos all the time. A hurricane is a good example.

We have consensus. Katrina cleaned up the mess known as New Orlelans in just a few short hours.

That is a pretty hateful statement. A bit ironic, huh.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[Royd 0]

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That is a pretty hateful statement. A bit ironic, huh.

Without a standard that we can use to judge good or evil, love or hate, it's just a statement.

[Amazon 7]

Love thy neighbor.. unless they do not look like you... isnt that there in the books somewhere???

[jcd11235 0]

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That is a pretty hateful statement. A bit ironic, huh.

Without a standard that we can use to judge good or evil, love or hate, it's just a statement.

True, perspective is everything. From my perspective such statements reveal much about a person's character.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[kallend 2,026]

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I believe that he put everything where it belongs, set it in motion, and left it to run its course.

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How do you know that He didn't set it in motion by means of The Big Bang, and that leaving it to run its course means that the development of the universe, and the evolution of life forms, didn't happen the way modern science believes it did?

The results of the Big Bang[ a huge explosion] goes against the current motion of every planet and solar system within this galaxy. Everything seems to turn in a giant counterclockwise motion. In a rather orderly fashion.

I've never seen an explosion that suddenly put everything into working order, unless there was someone around to clean up the mess.

So now not only the biologists are frauds, so are the physicists!

Maybe it's YOU that doesn't understand. Do you have any idea what % of the known universe is represented by our galaxy?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 2,990]

>Without a standard that we can use to judge good or evil, love or hate, it's just a statement.

True. But by human standards, calling a disaster that killed 1800 people "cleaning up a mess" is considered callous. I imagine you would feel the same if people you cared about were among those killed.

[jakee 1,489]

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By the reasoning presented here, the ability for life to create itself and start changing to become something else should not be restricted by such things as a surface temperature of 500 degrees or 200 degrees below zero, or the presence of gases that would cause us to drop dead in 2 seconds. Life should be able to seek its own level within its own environment.

Thats not the point. You have absolutely no reason to believe that there aren't any other earth like planets in the universe yet you have categorically stated there are not. While we're on the subject though, did you know that around vents in the deep ocean organisms have been found that don't metabolise oxygen? Opens up a whole new realm of possibilities.

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Evolutionists should be in bed with those who believe in space aliens.

Given the billions of years for progress to happen, there should be beings out there who are so far advanced that they could come and go without so much as a trace of evidence.

Believe in the overwhelming likelyhood of space aliens, yeah I do. Believe in aliens that are here, nah. On the one hand, the universe is big. On the other hand, the universe is really, really big. I find it hard to fathom that we (or other civilisations) could ever become advanced enough to conquer the vast distances involved in interstellar travel. And if they did, I doubt they'd waste their time anal-probing toothless dairy farmers.

One thing I sometimes idly contemplate (as jcd pointed out about telescopes being 'timemachines') is how many races we may be looking up at in the stars who have long since fallen into dust by the time their light reaches us. Hmmm.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,489]

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The results of the Big Bang[ a huge explosion] goes against the current motion of every planet and solar system within this galaxy. Everything seems to turn in a giant counterclockwise motion. In a rather orderly fashion.

I've never seen an explosion that suddenly put everything into working order, unless there was someone around to clean up the mess.

Suddenly put everything in order? You're not, um, under the impression that loads of stars and planets spewed straight out of the big bang in fully formed galaxies are you?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[SpeedRacer 1]

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The results of the Big Bang[ a huge explosion] goes against the current motion of every planet and solar system within this galaxy. Everything seems to turn in a giant counterclockwise motion. In a rather orderly fashion.

I've never seen an explosion that suddenly put everything into working order, unless there was someone around to clean up the mess.

Suddenly put everything in order? You're not, um, under the impression that loads of stars and planets spewed straight out of the big bang in fully formed galaxies are you?

This is an example of why it's so hard to argue with creationists.

Speed Racer
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[jakee 1,489]

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The results of the Big Bang[ a huge explosion] goes against the current motion of every planet and solar system within this galaxy. Everything seems to turn in a giant counterclockwise motion. In a rather orderly fashion.

I've never seen an explosion that suddenly put everything into working order, unless there was someone around to clean up the mess.

Suddenly put everything in order? You're not, um, under the impression that loads of stars and planets spewed straight out of the big bang in fully formed galaxies are you?

This is an example of why it's so hard to argue with creationists.

Kids Creationists say the darndest things

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[kallend 2,026]

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The results of the Big Bang[ a huge explosion] goes against the current motion of every planet and solar system within this galaxy. Everything seems to turn in a giant counterclockwise motion. In a rather orderly fashion.

I've never seen an explosion that suddenly put everything into working order, unless there was someone around to clean up the mess.

Suddenly put everything in order? You're not, um, under the impression that loads of stars and planets spewed straight out of the big bang in fully formed galaxies are you?

This is an example of why it's so hard to argue with creationists.

Kids Creationists say the darndest things

Have you noticed how this conspiracy to foist Darwinism on the citizenry now includes paleontologists, geologists, mineralogists, crystallographers, zoologists, botanists, geneticists, biochemists, molecular biologists, molecular biophysicists, cosmologists, astronomers, and particle physicists from every nation on Earth, as well as Popes John Paul II and Benedict XVI. Organizing this vast conspiracy must have taken an effort that puts even NASA's Moon landing hoax to shame.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[jakee 1,489]

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Have you noticed how this conspiracy to foist Darwinism on the citizenry now includes paleontologists, geologists, mineralogists, crystallographers, zoologists, botanists, geneticists, biochemists, molecular biologists, molecular biophysicists, cosmologists, astronomers, and particle physicists from every nation on Earth, as well as Popes John Paul II and Benedict XVI. Organizing this vast conspiracy must have taken an effort that puts even NASA's Moon landing hoax to shame.

Yep. My earlier post about it does now seem quite inadequate at describing the sheer scale of collusion!

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Royd 0]

Without a standard that we can use to judge good or evil, love or hate, it's just a statement.

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killed 1800 people "cleaning up a mess" is considered callous. I imagine you would feel the same if people you cared about were among those killed

Just following your lead on the importance of natural selection. Anyone who can't get out of a low lying area with a week's warning probably doesn't need to be in the gene pool.

[Squeak 17]

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Without a standard that we can use to judge good or evil, love or hate, it's just a statement.

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killed 1800 people "cleaning up a mess" is considered callous. I imagine you would feel the same if people you cared about were among those killed

Just following your lead on the importance of natural selection. Anyone who can't get out of a low lying area with a week's warning probably doesn't need to be in the gene pool.

that statement is so fucked up I cant begin to say,

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[Royd 0]

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Without a standard that we can use to judge good or evil, love or hate, it's just a statement.


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killed 1800 people "cleaning up a mess" is considered callous. I imagine you would feel the same if people you cared about were among those killed

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Just following your lead on the importance of natural selection. Anyone who can't get out of a low lying area with a week's warning probably doesn't need to be in the gene pool.

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that statement is so fucked up I cant begin to say,

Please explain to me again how the human developed this thing called compassion that reaches out to those who really contribute nothing to the furtherence of the human race, and lifts them up, and gives them hope that there is something beyound the miserable life that they have been living.

[Samurai136 0]

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Without a standard that we can use to judge good or evil, love or hate, it's just a statement.

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killed 1800 people "cleaning up a mess" is considered callous. I imagine you would feel the same if people you cared about were among those killed

Just following your lead on the importance of natural selection. Anyone who can't get out of a low lying area with a week's warning probably doesn't need to be in the gene pool.

that statement is so fucked up I cant begin to say,

It's a great example of a Strawman Argument and shows a poor understanding of Natural Selection.

Natural Selection doesn't make value judgements about whom should or should not be "in the gene pool". It also doesn't specify what characteristics are "the fittest". To 'pass the test' of natural selection and survival of the fittest a species only needs to insure that their genes make it into successive future generations (i.e. have children, and grandchildren).

The moral aspect of Royd's argument is a red herring. I've never been a fan of herring; salmon, tuna and walleye are better.

"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian
Ken

[Samurai136 0]

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Please explain to me again how the human developed this thing called compassion that reaches out to those who really contribute nothing to the furtherence of the human race, and lifts them up, and gives them hope that there is something beyound the miserable life that they have been living.

Evolutionary Psychology has several answers to this question.

"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian
Ken

[freethefly 6]

Another theory that is worthy of consideration;

Details of the Ekpyrotic Universe theory

The following technical description was provided to SPACE.com by the authors (Justin Khoury, Princeton; Burt Ovrut, UPenn; Paul Steinhardt, Princeton and Neil Turok, Cambridge):

Our paper proposes a new theory of the very early universe that resolves the famous puzzles of the hot Big Bang picture -- the horizon, flatness and monopole problems -- and that generates fluctuations in energy that seed galaxy formation and produce temperature variations in the cosmic microwave background. The model is based on the idea that our hot Big Bang universe was created from the collision of two three-dimensional worlds moving along a hidden, extra dimension.

The inflationary model of the universe, developed in the 1980's by Alan Guth (MIT), Andre Linde (Stanford), Andreas Albrecht (UC Davis) and Steinhardt, was designed to resolve these very same problems, relying on a period of exponential hyper-expansion, or inflation.

Conceptually, the ekpyrotic model is very different. There is no inflation or rapid change happening at all. The approach to collision takes places very slowly over an exceedingly long period of time. It is quite fascinating that rapid change and very slow change can produce nearly the same effects. The difference results in one distinctive observational prediction, though: Inflationary cosmology predicts a spectrum of gravitational waves that may be detectable in the cosmic microwave background. The ekpyrotic model predicts no gravitational wave effects should be observable in the cosmic microwave background.

In the ekpyrotic model, when the two three-dimensional worlds collide and "stick," the kinetic energy in the collision is converted to the quarks, electrons, photons, etc. that are confined to move along three dimensions. The resulting temperature is finite, so the hot Big Bang phase begins without a singularity. The universe is homogeneous because the collision and initiation of the Big Bang phase occurs nearly simultaneously everywhere.

The energetically preferred geometry for the two worlds is flat, so their collision produces a flat Big Bang universe. According to Einstein's equations, this means that the total energy density of the universe is equal to the critical density. Massive magnetic monopoles, which are over-abundantly produced in the standard Big Bang theory, are not produced at all in this scenario because the temperature after collision is far too small to produce any of these massive particles.

Quantum effects cause the incoming three-dimensional world to ripple along the extra-dimension prior to collision so that the collision occurs in some places at slightly different times than others. By the time the collision is complete, the rippling leads to small variations in temperature, which seed temperature fluctuations in the microwave background and the formation of galaxies. We have shown that the spectrum of energy density fluctuations is scale-invariant (the same amplitude on all scales). The production of a scale-invariant spectrum from hyper-expansion was one of the great triumphs of inflationary theory, and here we have repeated the feat using completely different physics.

The building blocks of the Ekpyrotic theory are derived from Superstring theory. Superstring theory requires extra dimensions for mathematical consistency. In most formulations, 10 dimensions are required. In the mid 1990s, Petr Horava (Rutgers) and Ed Witten (IAS, Princeton) argued that, under certain conditions, an additional dimension opens up over a finite interval. Six dimensions are presumed to be curled up in a microscopic ball, called a Calabi-Yau manifold.

The ball is too small to be noticed in everyday experience, and so our universe appears to be a four-dimensional (three space dimensions and one time dimension) surface embedded in a five-dimensional space-time. This five-dimensional theory, called heterotic M-theory, was formulated by Andre Lukas (Sussex). Ovrut and Dan Waldram (Queen Mary and Westfield College, London). According to Horava-Witten and heterotic M-theory, particles are constrained to move on one of the three-dimensional boundaries on either side of the extra dimensional interval.

Our visible universe would be one of these boundaries; the other boundary and the intervening space would be hidden because particles and light cannot travel across the intervening space. Only gravity is able to couple matter on one boundary to the other sides. In addition, there can exist other three-dimensional hyper-surfaces in the interval, which lie parallel to the outer boundaries and which can carry energy.

These intervening planes are called "branes," short for membranes. The collision that ignites the hot Big Bang phase of the ekpyrotic model occurs when a three-dimensional brane is attracted to and collides into the boundary corresponding to our visible universe.

The term ekpyrosis means "conflagration" in Greek, and refers to an ancient Stoic cosmological model. According to the model, the universe is created in a sudden burst of fire, not unlike the collision between three-dimensional worlds in our model. The current universe evolves from the initial fire. However, in the Stoic notion, the process may repeat itself in the future. This, too, is possible in our scenario in principle if there is more than one brane and, consequently, more than one collision. We plan to discuss this possibility in future work, along with further speculations about what preceded the collision that made our present universe.

As a final remark, we feel that it is important to realize that Inflationary theory is based on Quantum Field theory, a well-established theoretical framework, and the model has been carefully studied and vetted for 20 years. Our proposal is based on unproven ideas in String theory and is brand new. While we appreciate the enthusiasm and interest with which the paper has been received, we would suggest some patience before promulgating these ideas in order to leave time for us to produce some follow-up papers that introduce additional elements and to allow fellow theorists time for criticism and sober judgment.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[Samurai136 0]

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Our proposal is based on unproven ideas in String theory and is brand new. While we appreciate the enthusiasm and interest with which the paper has been received, we would suggest some patience before promulgating these ideas in order to leave time for us to produce some follow-up papers that introduce additional elements and to allow fellow theorists time for criticism and sober judgment.

Not entirely brand new. Did you know that some of the ideas for large scale galactic formation were inspired by studying the formation of bubbles in beer foam?

The Invisible Pink Unicorns live in an alternate universe. One good test would be to detect the gravity waves they use to communicate with Cloe.

p.s. I like string theory but I'm not certain its appropriate for the DZ audience. Some of whom have difficulty understanding the difference between galaxies, solar systems, and the universe.

"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian
Ken

[billvon 2,990]

>Anyone who can't get out of a low lying area with a week's
>warning probably doesn't need to be in the gene pool.

Hmm. Would you extend that thinking to a child with a birth defect?

>Please explain to me again how the human developed this thing called compassion . . .

Evolution - and it's not just a human trait. If you show compassion for your offspring, then your genes are propagated - and the next generation shows compassion as well. If you abandon your children for the wolves, or show no compassion when they are sick or hungry - then your genes die out.

True for your friends as well. Chimps show compassion to others in their communities, because a community that fights together (and protects its weaker members, especially those who will bear or protect offspring) survives and passes on its genes. This makes them successful when it comes to evolution. Communities that allow their weaker members (especially pregnant females) to die don't reproduce.

As humans, we have developed enough intelligence to extend that sentiment (compassion) to people we have never met. Many people have compassion for people continents away, and demonstrate this through missionary work, charity, projects like Habitat for Humanity etc. Some people choose to not show such compassion, and could care less that people are dying in places like Iraq, Ethiopia, Rwanda or (in your case) New Orleans.

[ExAFO 0]

"Marzipan" is an intrinsically funny word. "Marzipan." Heh.

Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.

[Amazon 7]

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Some people choose to not show such compassion, and could care less that people are dying in places like Iraq, Ethiopia, Rwanda or (in your case) New Orleans.

It always amazes me how many "creationists" must not be reading the same bible others of us have read.

[Andy9o8 2]

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Some people choose to not show such compassion, and could care less that people are dying in places like Iraq, Ethiopia, Rwanda or (in your case) New Orleans.

Oh, come on people, let's call this ("gene pool in N. Orleans") what it really is. This attitude isn't a mere "lack of compassion" . . .

Edited for PA. As a reminder, while you can discuss what someone has said, you cannot attack them personally. If "everyone knows what he's really saying" then fine - it doesn't need to be posted.