We should hang our heads in shame.

[BIGUN 1,486]

I've been an a plane roughly 40 times this year. Me; I understand. Soldiers in uniform? We should be ashamed. Write a Congressman, would ya?

http://www.sftt.org/cgi-bin/csNews/csNews.cgi?database=Unlisted.db&command=viewone&id=52

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[narcimund 0]

"Dear congressman,

Please sponsor legislation to exempt uniformed military personnel from security screenings at airports.

After all, there's no chance a hijacker would wear a counterfeit uniform.

Thank you very much,

-- Your constituent"

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[steveorino 7]

I agree it is dispicable. You can't screen who needs to be screened because it isn't PC. So, we screen grandmas and little babies, while allowing the people who fit the profile that performed the terrorist act walk on by. Political correctness at its worst.

Before anyone calls me a fundie, or bigot I'm the first to say SCREEN me! I'm dark skinned, I have an accent (okay, it is Texas accent, but none the less) Let grandman go by.

steveOrino

[Revillusion 0]

100% - I support "profiling" at airports. Nothing to do with racial profiling, but terrorist profiling. TSA and HS needs to step up and do what is required.

VIRTUS JUNXIT MORS NON SEPARABIT

[mnealtx 0]

While I understand both of your (you and Kieth's) points, and agree with them emotionally, I think we should be emulating El Al Airlines in regards to security.

EVERYONE gets checked, no exceptions. That way there's no gripes about favoritism or profiling.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Amazon 7]

Quote

EVERYONE gets checked, no exceptions. That way there's no gripes about favoritism or profiling.

BINGO.. for once we agree...BUT

I think they have moved on to other means to attack now...the ports are all still fairly wide open...the borders are a joke...`more needs to be done..BEFORE there is an area of the country that is closed to human habitation

[steveorino 7]

Quote

While I understand both of your (you and Kieth's) points, and agree with them emotionally, I think we should be emulating El Al Airlines in regards to security.

EVERYONE gets checked, no exceptions. That way there's no gripes about favoritism or profiling.

No problem with that. As one poster indicated, it is not that unfeasible for a terrorist to wear a uniform. Perhaps one "part" of the solution would be to issue the soldiers a badge that is not easily copied and let him/her scan it and move on.

steveOrino

[Skyrad 0]

Quote

the U.S. military requires soldiers to travel in uniform from theater.

Once a few have been targeted and hit on their way home or at home that will change and no doubt everyone will be shocked that it has happened You'd think when fighting a war on terror it might be useful to try learning from those around the world who've been fighting it for decades already.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Quote

While I understand both of your (you and Kieth's) points, and agree with them emotionally, I think we should be emulating El Al Airlines in regards to security.

EVERYONE gets checked, no exceptions. That way there's no gripes about favoritism or profiling.

No problem with that. As one poster indicated, it is not that unfeasible for a terrorist to wear a uniform. Perhaps one "part" of the solution would be to issue the soldiers a badge that is not easily copied and let him/her scan it and move on.

The problem with that is what one group can make, another can copy....

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[warpedskydiver 0]

I think that sure, screen them as you would anyone who isn't on a watch list.

I don't see them scrutinizing people who should be.

So why treat Soldiers in uniform like criminals?

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

I think that sure, screen them as you would anyone who isn't on a watch list.

I don't see them scrutinizing people who should be.

So why treat Soldiers in uniform like criminals?

Again - I agree with the sentiment on an emotional level, but that's not solving the problem. As Narci said, uniforms can be stolen/counterfeited. As I said, documents can be faked.

The problem, again, is that they DON'T check everyone... so when someone DOES get checked, they feel singled out. So, here's the solution; check everyone...then nobody can gripe that they got singled out.

And, more importantly...they just MIGHT catch someone meaning harm.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[steveorino 7]

Do they check everyone somewhere? For the life of me, I'd see that a logistical nightmare, but maybe it could be done. Or we could profile and check the people who have committed the crimes in our air and PC be damned.

steveOrino

[warpedskydiver 0]

Quote

Do they check everyone somewhere? For the life of me, I'd see that a logistical nightmare, but maybe it could be done. Or we could profile and check the people who have committed the crimes in our air and PC be damned.

Israel comes to mind.

If you're gonna check anyone at all, check everyone.

[PhreeZone 20]

El Al screens everyone. Full body scans, cargo, everything. It is recommended to be at the security line 2 hours in advance in Isreal to clear and get to your plane. That is not arrive at the airport, that is be in the security line that far in advance.

US air cargo is even more vunerable then the passengers are. US mail flies on most commercial airlines and it is almost always unscreened before they load it. Freight is only screend about 10% of the time. What are you more worried about, someone shipping a 50 pound bomb or someone carrying a knife on board?

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[mnealtx 0]

Yup, as warped said above and in my original post... Israel checks everyone, as far as I can recall.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[opurt 0]

Screening should not be about respecting or insulting people. It should be about trying to identify potential attackers.

Just now, in Iraq, over 100 people were kidnapped by gunmen dressed as police.

The last two airliners destroyed by terrorists were suicide - bombed by white women.

Soldiers aren't being hassled because they're soldiers. They're being hassled because someone could dress like a soldier, do the whole "What kind of scumbag would hassle a soldier returning from theater?" scene, and smuggle a bomb on the airliner.

A few years ago, an Egypt Air jet full of Egyptian political and military officials was crashed. By the copilot.

Terrorists aren't smart enough to do all this? I'll admit it is farfetched. But getting 19 guys on 4 different airliners, hijacking them and flying them into American landmarks is ridiculously farfetched too.

Terrorists aren't effective because they behave like we expect them to.

Planting a bomb in the wheelchair of a 90 year old white haired woman couldn't happen?

If you're serious about saving lives, you have to think outside the box.

[BIGUN 1,486]

Quote

I think we should be emulating El Al Airlines in regards to security. EVERYONE gets checked, no exceptions. That way there's no gripes about favoritism or profiling.

I agree with this. But, as it stands right now, Pilots, crew and "Elite" passengers" get a pass - special lane, no extra checks, etc. If the argument is emulating a soldier, the same argument could be applied to pilots and crew. If one; then all.

I have expressed my views on TSA's nonsecurity "security" on here before.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Quote

I think we should be emulating El Al Airlines in regards to security. EVERYONE gets checked, no exceptions. That way there's no gripes about favoritism or profiling.

I agree with this. But, as it stands right now, Pilots, crew and "Elite" passengers" get a pass - special lane, no extra checks, etc. If the argument is emulating a soldier, the same argument could be applied to pilots and crew. If one; then all.

I have expressed my views on TSA's nonsecurity "security" on here before.

Agreed...everyone means everyone... flight crew, the ground crew going out to the planes, ALL cargo ... if it contacts the plane, it gets checked.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[billvon 3,119]

Allowing such exceptions is a bad idea, even if there's a foolproof way of identifying someone's affiliations. Had we had such exceptions in 1990, then an off-duty policeman might have gotten hassled while Timothy McVeigh got a pass.

Easy solution - screen everyone. I've flown El Al a few times, and while it is a royal pain in the ass, their security works.

[Gawain 0]

Quote

I've been an a plane roughly 40 times this year. Me; I understand. Soldiers in uniform? We should be ashamed. Write a Congressman, would ya?

http://www.sftt.org/cgi-bin/csNews/csNews.cgi?database=Unlisted.db&command=viewone&id=52

Being a soldier, and wonded vet, I hate the idea emotionally, as I get hand searched, every time now due to metal in my body and on my prosthetic, however, it is so easy to get a set of ACUs, or DCUs. Anyone can buy them, get the name tapes made, sew on the badges, and insignia.

If anything, it makes more sense to search every uniformed serviceman or woman because of the emotional desire to just give them a pass.

Now, when entire units are in deployment or re-deployment transit, these searches do not occur.

As for soldiers who are traveling to/from mid-tour leave, etc., I think TSA could set up a similar program they have for wounded vets: a liaison program which "fast tracks" the individual through security. Everything still gets searched, even hand-patted, but the cut through the lines, and get personal treatment from check-in through security through the gate terminal.

The program works for the wounded vets with their "stuff" it would work just as well with these servicemen and women.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Casurf1978 0]

Quote

Easy solution - screen everyone. I've flown El Al a few times, and while it is a royal pain in the ass, their security works.

How feasible would it be to implement that on a grand scale? For example LAX and JFK let alone nationwide. Also how about the expense. Airline companies will flip out if you pass any of the extra cost to them. I'm all for increased security, but where do you plan to get all this money from. We also do want airport security going to the lowest bidder. Just some thoughts.

[kallend 2,150]

Quote

Do they check everyone somewhere? For the life of me, I'd see that a logistical nightmare, but maybe it could be done. Or we could profile and check the people who have committed the crimes in our air and PC be damned.

At Heathrow during the IRA "troubles" I've been on flights where everyone was screened

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 3,119]

>How feasible would it be to implement that on a grand scale?

No question it will be feasible. Just takes money and time.

>Also how about the expense. Airline companies will flip out if you
>pass any of the extra cost to them.

Not if they are all hit equally by the additional costs. Then all ticket prices go up and they remain competitive with each other. A few will still likely go out of business, since the increased costs mean that fewer people will be able to afford to fly.

>I'm all for increased security, but where do you plan to get all this
>money from.

From us. The two wars going on right now, billed as protecting us from terrorism, cost us about $200 million a day. If that's affordable, surely we can spare, say, $2 million a day to do something much more concrete to protect us from terrorism.

>We also do want airport security going to the lowest bidder.

I assume you meant "don't." That's why we now have the TSA running airport security instead of rent-a-cops.

[Andy9o8 2]

Quote

As for soldiers who are traveling to/from mid-tour leave, etc., I think TSA could set up a similar program they have for wounded vets: a liaison program which "fast tracks" the individual through security. Everything still gets searched, even hand-patted, but the cut through the lines, and get personal treatment from check-in through security through the gate terminal.

Good idea. My dad gets similar treatment at airports because he has a pacemaker and can't go thru the full-body metal detector, and has to be searched manually.

[warpedskydiver 0]

Now, when entire units are in deployment or re-deployment transit, these searches do not occur.

As for soldiers who are traveling to/from mid-tour leave, etc., I think TSA could set up a similar program they have for wounded vets: a liaison program which "fast tracks" the individual through security. Everything still gets searched, even hand-patted, but the cut through the lines, and get personal treatment from check-in through security through the gate terminal.

The program works for the wounded vets with their "stuff" it would work just as well with these servicemen and women.