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Richards 0
QuoteQuoteQuote***"It's not targeting the homeless, it's targeting anyone who behaves in this way."
The rich and the poor alike are prohibited from stealing bread and sleeping in the streets.
I don't think it adresses where you sleep so much as how you conduct yourself ehen you are there.
I see your point in saying that homeless people may be more inclined to behave in a certain way but that does not in itself make the law discriminatory. If that were the case then laws againt sexual harasment could be seen as discriminatory since it is mostly men who break that law.
Richards
My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.
Andy9o8 2
QuoteQuoteQuote"It's not targeting the homeless, it's targeting anyone who behaves in this way."
The rich and the poor alike are prohibited from stealing bread and sleeping in the streets.
Exactly.
I've lived and worked in several cities. The homeless exist, and they have to urinate and defecate just like the rest of us. When virtually every public lavatory is closed to them throughout the night, they still have to relieve themselves, what do you expect them to do?
Also, keep in mind that a large number of "street bums" are mentally ill and often not fully rational, making it all the more difficult for them to successfully adhere to social conventions like finding discreet places to pee.
Plenty of public lavatories, open 24/7, would be a reasonable way to address this.
Andy9o8 2
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote***"It's not targeting the homeless, it's targeting anyone who behaves in this way."
The rich and the poor alike are prohibited from stealing bread and sleeping in the streets.
I don't think it adresses where you sleep so much as how you conduct yourself ehen you are there.
I see your point in saying that homeless people may be more inclined to behave in a certain way but that does not in itself make the law discriminatory. If that were the case then laws againt sexual harasment could be seen as discriminatory since it is mostly men who break that law.
Richards
Except this is a case where analogies fail. See my post above.
That's a fascinating, abstract point. It drifts from the original topic but it's interesting in its own right.
Are laws discriminatory when they only affect people who are inclined to do the prohibited thing? Sometimes yes and sometimes no.
* Would a law prohibiting murder be disciminatory because only some people want to do murder? No.
* How about a law prohibiting marrying someone of a different race? Probably yes.
So how about a law prohibiting anyone from sleeping on the street? I don't know... It would depend on whatever makes the key difference in the two cases above.
First Class Citizen Twice Over
Are laws discriminatory when they only affect people who are inclined to do the prohibited thing? Sometimes yes and sometimes no.
* Would a law prohibiting murder be disciminatory because only some people want to do murder? No.
* How about a law prohibiting marrying someone of a different race? Probably yes.
So how about a law prohibiting anyone from sleeping on the street? I don't know... It would depend on whatever makes the key difference in the two cases above.
First Class Citizen Twice Over
kallend 2,106
What about people who use the incorrect fork at dinner? 
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
Amazon 7
Miss Manners gets to spank you
Richards 0
QuoteI've lived and worked in several cities. The homeless exist, and they have to urinate and defecate just like the rest of us. When virtually every public lavatory is closed to them throughout the night, they still have to relieve themselves, what do you expect them to do?
Also, keep in mind that a large number of "street bums" are mentally ill and often not fully rational, making it all the more difficult for them to successfully adhere to social conventions like finding discreet places to pee.
I don't think this is so much designe to target homeless people as much as unruly thus (gangs are becoming more common in Calgary), and harrassing behavior. I am sure if a homeles guy took the trouble to walk into a back alley to urinate rather than simply whipping i out on a crowded sidewalk (as many do) the police would again exercise some discretion.
I do not see how the majority of the behaviour described there is unique to homeless people.
Richards
My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.
Richards 0
QuoteWhat about people who use the incorrect fork at dinner?
Public stonings.
Richards
My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.
Andy9o8 2
QuoteQuoteWhat about people who use the incorrect fork at dinner?
Public stonings.
Richards
I was gonna say burn them as witches.
Richards 0
QuoteQuoteThat's a fascinating, abstract point. It drifts from the original topic but it's interesting in its own right.
Are laws discriminatory when they only affect people who are inclined to do the prohibited thing? Sometimes yes and sometimes no.
* Would a law prohibiting murder be disciminatory because only some people want to do murder? No.
* How about a law prohibiting marrying someone of a different race? Probably yes.
So how about a law prohibiting anyone from sleeping on the street? I don't know... It would depend on whatever makes the key difference in the two cases above.
I think people are mistaken if they feel that homeless people are deliberately being targetted by this law.
I took it as Calgary was having problems with punk/hoodlum/thug behaviour creeping into the city and wanted to nip it in the bud, before it got out of hand as it is in most major cities.
The law does not seem that unreasonable. If you don't want a fine, act in a manner that is considerate to your fellow citizens. It is not a hard law to comply with.
Richards
My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.
Royd 0
There goes the Stampede.
What? The bar in Temecula?QuoteThere goes the Stampede.
I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.
I don't think Calgarians need to worry too much about this bylaw. Afterall there is a labor shortage and there probably isn't that many bylaw enforcement officers around to begin with. This is just another issue that North America's fastest growing city needs to learn to deal with.
Try not to worry about the things you have no control over
Try not to worry about the things you have no control over
Shell666 0
QuoteI don't think Calgarians need to worry too much about this bylaw. Afterall there is a labor shortage and there probably isn't that many bylaw enforcement officers around to begin with. This is just another issue that North America's fastest growing city needs to learn to deal with.
Maybe they wouldn't have to learn to deal with it, or pass a law against it, if people would learn to act like human beings and not animals.
If it could hit them in the pocket book, it might make some people think twice about acting like a complete jackass in public.
Then again, if they're complete jackasses to start with, it probably won't help anyway.
Edited to add: Good luck, Calgary. The problems you see seem to migrate north to us.
'Shell
'Shell
Richards 0
QuoteI've lived and worked in several cities. The homeless exist, and they have to urinate and defecate just like the rest of us. When virtually every public lavatory is closed to them throughout the night, they still have to relieve themselves, what do you expect them to do?
Much of the problem with public urination is that the individuals no longer make an effort to find a discrete location. It used to be that people would go into a back alley at least. Now it is not uncommon for some guy to simply whip it out on a public sidewalk and do his business simply because he does not care. In many cases it is not a homeless guy but some "gangsta" hood who just doesn't give a fuck.
QuoteAlso, keep in mind that a large number of "street bums" are mentally ill and often not fully rational, making it all the more difficult for them to successfully adhere to social conventions like finding discreet places to pee.
Understood, but again I don't think that the homeless are the ones being singled out . The issue is that inner city unpleasantness is starting to become more comon in Calgary
QuotePlenty of public lavatories, open 24/7, would be a reasonable way to address this.
Way too much emphasis is being placed on the public urination aspect of this law. It looks like it is more about controling loutish behaviour amongst the downtown crowd.
Richards
My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.
Amazon 7
OK Puckhead.....
What are you doing in SC..eesh...sheesh
What are you doing in SC..eesh...sheesh
smiles 0
Granville Street Vancouver, B.C.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2006/11/09/bc-camera-sullivan.html
QuotePolice went public with their concerns earlier in the week, saying the district was out of control on weekends. They said they would like cameras as part of their efforts to curb the hordes of drunks who fight, vomit and urinate along the three-block strip between Robson and Davie streets.
Police say Granville Street has become a destination for party-goers from across the Lower Mainland, who get drunk and create trouble.
(Vancouver Police Department/ CBC) "The situation there is unacceptable," said the mayor, adding that he's not ruling out anything that might help police restore public order, including cameras.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2006/11/09/bc-camera-sullivan.html
eustress. : a positive form of stress having a beneficial effect on health, motivation, performance, and emotional well-being.
Richards 0
QuoteMaybe they wouldn't have to learn to deal with it, or pass a law against it, if people would learn to act like human beings and not animals.
If it could hit them in the pocket book, it might make some people think twice about acting like a complete jackass in public.
Precisely
QuoteGood luck, Calgary. The problems you see seem to migrate north to us.
It is always easier to deal with a problem in it's infancy.
Richards
My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.
Gawain 0
I'm still coming to grips with the idea that it may be legal to take a shit, in public, in Calgary. I mean, where else...
So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!
Richards 0
QuoteQuoteI'm still coming to grips with the idea that it may be legal to take a shit, in public, in Calgary. I mean, where else...
It is quite possibly a carry-over from the cowboy days
Richards
My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.
Richards 0
QuoteThis is just another issue that North America's fastest growing city needs to learn to deal with.
True, but dealing with it does not neccessarily mean accepting it. Calgary has a beautiful culture, where you do not have he usual kind of crap you have in other big cities, and they do not have to accept the bad with the good as people seem to expect. The general redneck Alberta culture will ensure that this bylaw has plenty of support, since most albertans do not want to see thier cities degrade into cesspools. It seems that Alberta will welcome people from around the country as their job market booms but they will expect people to check thier garbage at the border.
Again this might be a good idea for Toronto. Walking down Young street makes me want to puke sometimes.
Richards
My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.
The rich and the poor alike are prohibited from stealing bread and sleeping in the streets.
First Class Citizen Twice Over
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