Lucky... 0 #76 November 19, 2006 Quote> but how about 737's, MD-80's, etc? They'll be superseded by something else. DC-3's used to be the backbone of air transportation; they used a different sort of fuel as well. DC-3's use auto gas / av gas......... airliners (737,etc) use jet fuel, a derivative of carosene. I just don't see the probability of another fuel that will sustain the kind of properties neccessary to maintain flight. The "oil age" has spiked I believe, or is about to spike just as demand is going to become huge. I would really hate to be 20 right now. The fatcors that lead us here are wasting of fuels by the public and especially by the military. Also, this tread of Massively overpopulating the world is nothing but pathetic. 2 billion could live well for a long time, whereas 6.5 B, soon to be 9B are going to be fighting for food, clean air/water, energy and space in intercities and suburbs. I think overpopulation is the biggest error in regard to oil supply. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #77 November 19, 2006 QuoteQuote> but how about 737's, MD-80's, etc? They'll be superseded by something else. DC-3's used to be the backbone of air transportation; they used a different sort of fuel as well. DC-3's use auto gas / av gas......... airliners (737,etc) use jet fuel, a derivative of carosene. I just don't see the probability of another fuel that will sustain the kind of properties neccessary to maintain flight. . Hydrogen? Once the storage problems are worked out.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #78 November 19, 2006 Methane .... plenty of that in a jump plane. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,995 #79 November 19, 2006 >I wonder if those ultraceptors create Ozone? Nope; in and of themselves, they just store power. I'm a bit skeptical of the ultracapacitor claims. Maxwell had a similar claim a while back. They spent years developing their product, and now they have a pretty decent capacitor, one that blows away their nearest competition - but a car full of them would give you a range of only a few miles. They have a ways to go. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #80 November 19, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuote> but how about 737's, MD-80's, etc? They'll be superseded by something else. DC-3's used to be the backbone of air transportation; they used a different sort of fuel as well. DC-3's use auto gas / av gas......... airliners (737,etc) use jet fuel, a derivative of carosene. I just don't see the probability of another fuel that will sustain the kind of properties neccessary to maintain flight. . Hydrogen? Once the storage problems are worked out. Yea, it would only allow shorts hops as of now, right? Hey, they could arial refuel!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #81 November 19, 2006 QuoteMethane .... plenty of that in a jump plane. That and chronic halitosis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #82 November 19, 2006 Is that why you wear a full face helmet with visor? (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,995 #83 November 19, 2006 >I just don't see the probability of another fuel that will sustain the kind >of properties neccessary to maintain flight. Biodiesel/alcohol _already_ have the properties needed to sustain flight. The problem will be providing them in sufficient quantities to make them an economical form of fuel in large quantities. >I think overpopulation is the biggest error in regard to oil supply. That's certainly one of the issues. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #84 November 20, 2006 Quote>I just don't see the probability of another fuel that will sustain the kind >of properties neccessary to maintain flight. Biodiesel/alcohol _already_ have the properties needed to sustain flight. The problem will be providing them in sufficient quantities to make them an economical form of fuel in large quantities. And think outside the square, Like Earnest Ruthorford did early last century. Nuclear is old technology now and definately has its cons, but that sort of thing is possible. magnatism is another souce of energy constantly available too. With wind water earth and fire anything is possible. Could you fathom Mobile phone,GPS, MP3 player, Dictaphone, computer and internet all available from a handset that was 100mmx30mmx15mm in the 1970's?(if you are that old?) Back then I was still tripping out on push button landline phones and the wire that when you push the button it would pause the VCR so you don't record the ads!"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,995 #85 November 20, 2006 >Nuclear is old technology now and definately has its cons, but that sort of thing is possible. Yep. One idea I've heard involves a nuclear-thermal powered "aircraft carrier." It cruises across the US and back at 25,000 feet; aircraft fly to it and either draft it or catch a tow rope to provide them a free ride across the US. During 90% of the trip the towed aircraft shut down their engines and just run their APU's for power/pressurization. But if you _really_ want to get outside the box, just drill a straight shaft from NY to LA. Pump the air out and drop a frictionless (magnetically levitated) capsule down the shaft. It will appear at the far end in 42 minutes with zero energy expended. >magnatism is another souce of energy constantly available too. Magnetism is a way to transport/transform energy, not really an energy source. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #86 November 20, 2006 Quote Magnetism is a way to transport/transform energy, not really an energy source. You just need the right flux capacitor.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #87 November 20, 2006 QuoteMagnetism is a way to transport/transform energy, not really an energy source. ceramics were used to make tiles origionaly but now these ultraceptors. The Earth is one big magnet, we just need to learn to tap into it properly!"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #88 November 20, 2006 Quote>I just don't see the probability of another fuel that will sustain the kind >of properties neccessary to maintain flight. Biodiesel/alcohol _already_ have the properties needed to sustain flight. The problem will be providing them in sufficient quantities to make them an economical form of fuel in large quantities. >I think overpopulation is the biggest error in regard to oil supply. That's certainly one of the issues. Yea, I'll cincede that, bio-fuels work, just the quantity required at this point are prohibitive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #89 November 20, 2006 Tow rope? Expound here, I think I'm being duped. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,995 #90 November 20, 2006 >Tow rope? Expound here, I think I'm being duped. Nuclear-thermal engines are decent at putting out moderate thrust for years, but not so good at putting out very high thrust. So an application where they use a booster to become airborne, then cruise for, say, 5 years, would be the most efficient use of that technology. Also, the greatest risk for most aircraft takes place during takeoff and landing. A reactor that is power-dense enough to make a reasonable jet engine is going to be very, very dangerous if it's involved in a crash, so takeoff and landing for this craft would likely have to be in an unpopulated desert. They've shown that DC-10's can tow other aircraft around without much trouble. So design a "drone" that takes off and flies a circle route around the country. Plane takes off in LA, grabs the tow rope (or drafts the drone, or gets a magnetic lock on the drone) and shuts down its engines. At NY the plane releases and flies down to land in NY. The drone then flies back to LA with another aircraft. Another advantage is that nuclear-thermal jets generate zero pollution. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #91 November 20, 2006 QuoteQuoteMagnetism is a way to transport/transform energy, not really an energy source. ceramics were used to make tiles origionaly but now these ultraceptors. The Earth is one big magnet, we just need to learn to tap into it properly! Unfortunately magnetic monopoles do not seem to exist. Finding these would appear to be a pre-requisite for tapping the earth's field. Back to the flux capacitor.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #92 November 21, 2006 QuoteThe Earth is one big magnet, we just need to learn to tap into it properly! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Unfortunately magnetic monopoles do not seem to exist. Many things did not seem to exist 100 years ago or even 10 years ago. got a link to this flux capacitor or are you just being smart and making reference to 'Back to the Future'? rhys"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #93 November 21, 2006 QuoteAnother advantage is that nuclear-thermal jets generate zero pollution. So the nuclear thermal jets could be the energy source for the ultraceptors recharge unit and the ultraceptors can run the boosters for the aircraft when they take off and if nessecary land."When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #94 November 21, 2006 QuoteQuoteThe Earth is one big magnet, we just need to learn to tap into it properly! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Unfortunately magnetic monopoles do not seem to exist. Many things did not seem to exist 100 years ago or even 10 years ago. got a link to this flux capacitor or are you just being smart and making reference to 'Back to the Future'? rhys Flux Capacitors exist. Presently, they're just prohibitively expensive to use. Therefore no new ones are being built. The real solution is dilithium crystals. It's a well known fact that the Earth's core is full of these incomparable energy resources. Unfortunately, we still lack the technology to find and harvest them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #95 November 21, 2006 QuoteQuoteThe Earth is one big magnet, we just need to learn to tap into it properly! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Unfortunately magnetic monopoles do not seem to exist. Many things did not seem to exist 100 years ago or even 10 years ago. got a link to this flux capacitor or are you just being smart and making reference to 'Back to the Future'? rhys If monopoles exist they must have energy > 174GeV or they would have been produced and observed at Fermilab during the Top Quark experiment. Therefore, if they exist they must (a) require a prodigious energy to create, and (b) they would decay to something else in a matter of femtoseconds. Both of which suggest to me that using them to power cars, planes and trains is most unlikely.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #96 November 21, 2006 QuoteIf monopoles exist maybe they don't but narrowing down the possibility of tapping into the earths magnetic field to the existence of these so called monopoles is not exactly looking outside the square now is it?"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #97 November 21, 2006 Quote>Tow rope? Expound here, I think I'm being duped. Nuclear-thermal engines are decent at putting out moderate thrust for years, but not so good at putting out very high thrust. So an application where they use a booster to become airborne, then cruise for, say, 5 years, would be the most efficient use of that technology. Also, the greatest risk for most aircraft takes place during takeoff and landing. A reactor that is power-dense enough to make a reasonable jet engine is going to be very, very dangerous if it's involved in a crash, so takeoff and landing for this craft would likely have to be in an unpopulated desert. They've shown that DC-10's can tow other aircraft around without much trouble. So design a "drone" that takes off and flies a circle route around the country. Plane takes off in LA, grabs the tow rope (or drafts the drone, or gets a magnetic lock on the drone) and shuts down its engines. At NY the plane releases and flies down to land in NY. The drone then flies back to LA with another aircraft. Another advantage is that nuclear-thermal jets generate zero pollution. I have never heard that whackiness. Not saying it's unachievable, just sounds strange. One problem is direction, but I guess you could stagger them at 1,000ft intervals for different directions. I don't really see it happening, but there are a lot of things that baffle me, like setting 12:00 on my VCR. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #98 November 21, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteThe Earth is one big magnet, we just need to learn to tap into it properly! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Unfortunately magnetic monopoles do not seem to exist. Many things did not seem to exist 100 years ago or even 10 years ago. got a link to this flux capacitor or are you just being smart and making reference to 'Back to the Future'? rhys If monopoles exist they must have energy > 174GeV or they would have been produced and observed at Fermilab during the Top Quark experiment. Therefore, if they exist they must (a) require a prodigious energy to create, and (b) they would decay to something else in a matter of femtoseconds. Both of which suggest to me that using them to power cars, planes and trains is most unlikely. This shit is all greek to me. Either I'm being duped with, "back to the future" language, or this shit is way over my head. Tell me, you must have gone in the military right out of high School, huh? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #99 November 21, 2006 QuoteIs that why you wear a full face helmet with visor? Yea, so I don't have to smell the other chronic halitosis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #100 November 21, 2006 Took you a week (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
