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QuoteEarlier Thursday, Barker wept during his closing statement, accepted responsibility for the rape and killings and said violence he encountered left him "angry and mean" when it came to Iraqis.
The constant exposure to violence sometimes brings out the worst that is inside all of us. Much like mob mentality. There is far more involved than just the acts that these soldiers commited, although, they are ultimately responsible for their actions. I can't help but to think of the kids who commit violent crimes and then state that it was from being exposed to violent video games. Or the violence that spills over from contact sports onto the street after a game. True, most of us are able to control any urge that may come from such exposure but, there will always be those who feel that they must act on these urges. Such acts are but an extention of the violence from the enviroment in which they are fostered in. Without that one starting point I believe that men such as these guys would had never committed such acts with the exception of pvt. Green due to his mental disorder.
"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young
QuoteNo, it is leftist thing to bash America over 3-4 guys out of 200,000 but let Islamic facists slide.
I'm gonna sorta agree with Lucky on this one. When the nation, America, sends hundreds of thousands of troops to invade another sovereign country, the actions of those troops, good or bad, can be properly attributed to the nation of America...we sent them as our representatives.
Similarly, when the terrorist organization Al Queda sends dozens of terrorists to the United States to wreak havoc and murder and mayhem, the actions of those terrorists can be properly characterized as representative of Al Queda. It's all about the organization the individuals are there representing.
You and I are both partially responsible for the shitty things a few of our troops do over there. You and I elected the government who put them in a position to be such dickheads. But for our actions (as a voting populace), these crimes would not have been committed. We should be proud of our boys when they do good, but we should also be ashamed of them when they do evil. Either way, their actions do reflect on us.
Blues,
Dave
"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)
(drink Mountain Dew)
Darius11 12
Oh please don’t say that dude. How many Threads have you seen on here generalizing about Islam, and Muslims? It is not a left or right thing. It is a stupid thing to generalize any group for the actions of a minority in that group.
I think for once the Troops who committed a crime got what they deserved, and that’s what we need to keep on doing. When we don’t give the troops who commit a crime a free pass it shows that it was an individual crime that we do not agree with. When people have knee jerk reaction to protect such criminals or give them weak punishment it makes all of us look bad.
The people who started this war and supported this war are also people to blame. I bet you non-of these kids would have committed such a crime if they were not in that environment.
War sucks and the people who seem to jump on the bandwagon to support unjust wars should take a deep look at them selves.
Wars make many good people do bad things and they should pay for there crimes, but lets not forget the chain does not end at the person who commits the crime but the weak administration and it’s supporters who put our men and woman in that situation.
I think for once the Troops who committed a crime got what they deserved, and that’s what we need to keep on doing. When we don’t give the troops who commit a crime a free pass it shows that it was an individual crime that we do not agree with. When people have knee jerk reaction to protect such criminals or give them weak punishment it makes all of us look bad.
The people who started this war and supported this war are also people to blame. I bet you non-of these kids would have committed such a crime if they were not in that environment.
War sucks and the people who seem to jump on the bandwagon to support unjust wars should take a deep look at them selves.
Wars make many good people do bad things and they should pay for there crimes, but lets not forget the chain does not end at the person who commits the crime but the weak administration and it’s supporters who put our men and woman in that situation.
I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain
QuoteOh please don’t say that dude. How many Threads have you seen on here generalizing about Islam, and Muslims? It is not a left or right thing. It is a stupid thing to generalize any group for the actions of a minority in that group.
You're right -- it is stupid, whether the generalizations are made about Americans, Muslims, Christians, Brits, French (well, maybe not the French.
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QuoteI think for once the Troops who committed a crime got what they deserved, and that’s what we need to keep on doing. When we don’t give the troops who commit a crime a free pass it shows that it was an individual crime that we do not agree with. When people have knee jerk reaction to protect such criminals or give them weak punishment it makes all of us look bad.
I agree
QuoteThe people who started this war and supported this war are also people to blame.
I respectfully disagree
QuoteI bet you non-of these kids would have committed such a crime if they were not in that environment.
Maybe not, maybe. I guess we will never know. How many 100,000 soldiers were in that enviornment and didn't commit autrocities? I'm too much an existentialist to give them that pass.
Quote
Wars make many good people do bad things ...
See my reply about me being an existentialist.
steveOrino
<Saudis or Muslims in general for 11/9>>
Oh but we are and that's o.k how?
(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome
Oh but we are and that's o.k how?
(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome
Quote
Like I said in another thread, he doesn't represent virtually all other soldiers, but he does represent America.... we can't denounce others for bashing America after this crap.
I think America and America's soldiers are far more accurately represented by the actions taken against the rapist. This is a case where pretty much every single person, republican and democrat alike, has said "This was NOT right and it will not happen again."
Like Gawain said, you can't always weed out the bad apples. It's not the actions of the offender that defines us, it's our response to those actions that matters.
rehmwa 2
QuoteIt's not the actions of the offender that defines us, it's our response to those actions that matters.
I tried that philosophy here in SC once and got called all sorts of names. I hope you fare better with it.
...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
There are wrong doers in all segments of society and the miltary is no different from any others (or you lot wouldn't need stockades and we wouldn't need glasshouses!!).
Just because a member of a group does wrong, should not reflect upon the rest of the group - that would be just plain daft.... If a soldier being naughty means that soldiers are naughty, then if any single American is naughty then all Americans are naughty - clearly stupid.
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(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome
Just because a member of a group does wrong, should not reflect upon the rest of the group - that would be just plain daft.... If a soldier being naughty means that soldiers are naughty, then if any single American is naughty then all Americans are naughty - clearly stupid.
.
(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome
Quote
The people who started this war and supported this war are also people to blame. I bet you non-of these kids would have committed such a crime if they were not in that environment.
War sucks and the people who seem to jump on the bandwagon to support unjust wars should take a deep look at them selves.
Wars make many good people do bad things and they should pay for there crimes, but lets not forget the chain does not end at the person who commits the crime but the weak administration and it’s supporters who put our men and woman in that situation.
That’s bullshit! A professional soldier (this has nothing to with nationality) is given training and is expected to carry out lawful orders. This person is a disgrace period!!!! Your drivel there is a cop out for people who look for an out for lack of responsibility for ones actions. Being a professional solider is not day care they volunteered to join the service and passed enough basic aptitude tests that some one of a leader ship role should not have to be telling people raping and killing civilians is wrong.
War doses not make people do immoral acts only a person’s lack of integrity and self control. “I bet you non-of these kids would have committed such a crime if they were not in that environment.” Maybe but I’m would be more worried of what they are capable of if they were not in controlled organization like the military.
SO this one time at band camp.....
"Of all the things I've lost I miss my mind the most."
"Of all the things I've lost I miss my mind the most."
Nor does he represent the vast majority of all other soldiers. From what you wrote, it's easy to infer you think he and soldiers like him are something more than the rare exception.
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