Six Muslim Clerics Removed from USAir Flight for Praying

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But we haven't killed tens of thousands by hijacking airplanes and crashing them into buildings

Total death count was less then 2500 on 9/11. More people are killed then that every month in alcohol related motor vechicle accidents. I'm not sure where you got your tens of thousands of people figure at.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

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This is pretty simple stuff. The six Muslim men were free to say their prayers. The other passengers were free to take offense. At least the Americans among them have no right to not be offended. The airline has the right to land and refuse to do further business with the Muslim men. Security had the right to remove the men forcibly from the airplane when they didn't want to comply. In the future, Muslims may wish to avoid airlines that will not allow them to worship in the manner their religion dictates. Non-muslims may wish to avoid airlines which do allow such prayer. And everyone involved shouldn't be such fucking pussies.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[Butters 0]

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Cuba-US_aircraft_hijackings

You should probably be more in fear of Cubans

Not all of those planes are US planes and not all of those planes are commercial. However, it does show that if you are flying from the southern portion of the US you should be aware of Cuban hijackers more than Arab hijackers.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

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This is pretty simple stuff. The six Muslim men were free to say their prayers. The other passengers were free to take offense. At least the Americans among them have no right to not be offended. The airline has the right to land and refuse to do further business with the Muslim men. Security had the right to remove the men forcibly from the airplane when they didn't want to comply. In the future, Muslims may wish to avoid airlines that will not allow them to worship in the manner their religion dictates. Non-muslims may wish to avoid airlines which do allow such prayer. And everyone involved shouldn't be such fucking pussies.

Blues,
Dave

Your such a diplomat

Its all true though. Thats the worrying thing

[Zipp0 1]

I consider myself a pretty tolerant/open-minded and fair person, but if 6 muslim men stood up in the plane I was on and started praying I would have probably stabbed the nearest one in the throat with a pen and hoped the rest of the passengers followed my lead.

I'm sorry, but you just don't freaking do that shit on an airplane now-a-days. If they at least had the courtesy of asking those on the flight with them if they would like to pray together according to their religious traditions, maybe it would have not freaked out the other passengers.

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

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But we haven't killed tens of thousands by hijacking airplanes and crashing them into buildings

Total death count was less then 2500 on 9/11. More people are killed then that every month in alcohol related motor vechicle accidents. I'm not sure where you got your tens of thousands of people figure at.

Comparing people killed in alcohol related motor vehicle accidents to people killed in hijacked planes is comparing apples to orangutans.

Read all the previous posts and you will understand where tens of thousands comes from.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[billvon 2,990]

>Making a joke about a bomb, will get you arrested, but it's
>okay to chant "Death to Americans"?

Like I said -

If they were saying "I will kill those yellow-dog infidels in the name of Allah" then arrest em.

If they were saying "The US seems to have no solution to the problems in Iraq" - then arresting them is a pretty clear overreaction.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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I consider myself a pretty tolerant/open-minded and fair person, but if 6 muslim men stood up in the plane I was on and started praying I would have probably stabbed the nearest one in the throat with a pen and hoped the rest of the passengers followed my lead.

I'm sorry, but you just don't freaking do that shit on an airplane now-a-days. If they at least had the courtesy of asking those on the flight with them if they would like to pray together according to their religious traditions, maybe it would have not freaked out the other passengers.

I have read this whole thread, good for a chuckle or two as people make things up along the way. Specially funny how people cannot make a distinction between anti-american talk and actual death threats, that's just hilarious.

All I could think about while reading the thread is, the terrorists have already won in the US.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Cuba-US_aircraft_hijackings

You should probably be more in fear of Cubans

Not all of those planes are US planes and not all of those planes are commercial. However, it does show that if you are flying from the southern portion of the US you should be aware of Cuban hijackers more than Arab hijackers.

What was the number fatalities of all those hijackings? How about after exclude deaths of the hijackers?

[billvon 2,990]

>but if 6 muslim men stood up in the plane I was on and started praying . . .

Once again, this did not happen on the plane. It happened IN THE TERMINAL.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Cuba-US_aircraft_hijackings

You should probably be more in fear of Cubans

Not all of those planes are US planes and not all of those planes are commercial. However, it does show that if you are flying from the southern portion of the US you should be aware of Cuban hijackers more than Arab hijackers.

What was the number fatalities of all those hijackings? How about after exclude deaths of the hijackers?

We were discussing the issue of being hijacked, not the issue of dying, so the amount of deaths does not matter. (You can follow the previous link and tally the deaths up if you want to.)

PS: It does not appear that the goal of any of the Cuban hijackings was to kill mass amounts of civilians though.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[Butters 0]

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>but if 6 muslim men stood up in the plane I was on and started praying . . .

Once again, this did not happen on the plane. It happened IN THE TERMINAL.

Billvon,

There are conflicting news sources. This has and is leading to some amount of confusion (which usually occurs when discussing events taken from news stories). Can you give a link to the story you read so that I have a more well rounded idea of what transpired.

Thanks,

Leopold Stotch

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

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I consider myself a pretty tolerant/open-minded and fair person, but if 6 muslim men stood up in the plane I was on and started praying I would have probably stabbed the nearest one in the throat with a pen and hoped the rest of the passengers followed my lead.

And I would hope that you and every other passenger who joined you was convicted of murder. You would kill someone for praying?!

I will not invoke Godwin's Law. I will not invoke Godwin's Law. I will not invoke Godwin's Law. I will not invoke Godwin's Law. But dammit, it really actually fits this time!! jlahrdjyvrzkjhguueee

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I'm sorry, but you just don't freaking do that shit on an airplane now-a-days. If they at least had the courtesy of asking those on the flight with them if they would like to pray together according to their religious traditions, maybe it would have not freaked out the other passengers.

Having to announce one's intentions to pray is absurd. Asking others to join them in prayer (including those who were sleeping and those who don't pray) is rude. You live in a country where the freedom of religion was bought with blood, and yet you expect adherents to the second largest religion in the world to kowtow to your ignorance of their customs? If something as basic as the prayers of 21% of the world population freaks you out, perhaps cracking a book and developing a rudimentary understanding of the practice would be a stress-reducing use of your time. It would most certainly be more informative and effective then simply expecting each and every one of them who comes into contact with you to ask your permission before engaging in prayer.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[Butters 0]

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I will not invoke Godwin's Law. I will not invoke Godwin's Law. I will not invoke Godwin's Law. I will not invoke Godwin's Law. But dammit, it really actually fits this time!! jlahrdjyvrzkjhguueee

This attachment is just for you!

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[SkyDekker 1,465]

you mean like get me one of them fancy edumacations?

[NCclimber 0]

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What was the number fatalities of all those hijackings? How about after exclude deaths of the hijackers?

We were discussing the issue of being hijacked, not the issue of dying, so the amount of deaths does not matter. (You can follow the previous link and tally the deaths up if you want to.)

PS: It does not appear that the goal of any of the Cuban hijackings was to kill mass amounts of civilians though.

IMO, it is relevant because Cuban hijackings are by and large matters of transportation, whereas Muslim hijackings in this country are about killing people.

[NCclimber 0]

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Having to announce one's intentions to pray is absurd. Asking others to join them in prayer (including those who were sleeping and those who don't pray) is rude. You live in a country where the freedom of religion was bought with blood, and yet you expect adherents to the second largest religion in the world to kowtow to your ignorance of their customs? If something as basic as the prayers of 21% of the world population freaks you out, perhaps cracking a book and developing a rudimentary understanding of the practice would be a stress-reducing use of your time. It would most certainly be more informative and effective then simply expecting each and every one of them who comes into contact with you to ask your permission before engaging in prayer.

Blues,
Dave

I'm amazed that so many people seem incapable of (or are unwilling to) recognize that this incident was significantly more than just an innocent evening prayer session.

For those who don't get it, try and figure out why it's against the law to yell FIRE in a crowded theater.

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if they showed the same outrage for someone commiting terrorist acts in the name of islam as they showed for a picture of mohammed or towards the pope for quoting an ancient text, maybe this sort of shit wouldn't happen.

Very well put.

If EVERYONE showed more consideration for others the world would be a nicer place.

if everyone smoke a joint and got laid 3 times a day the world would be a much nicer place, but it just isn't going to happen.

To those debating who hijacked what and what group killed how many people: does it really fucking matter? what matters in this situation is perseption. regardless of the actual statistics, the passengers, the flight crew, and most importantly the pilot in command who is responsible for everbody's safety perceived a threat and took action. i'm sure he didn't check with wikipedia to see if cubans or dead queens were statistically more likely to hijack an american plane.

"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com

[Zipp0 1]

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I consider myself a pretty tolerant/open-minded and fair person, but if 6 muslim men stood up in the plane I was on and started praying I would have probably stabbed the nearest one in the throat with a pen and hoped the rest of the passengers followed my lead.

And I would hope that you and every other passenger who joined you was convicted of murder. You would kill someone for praying?!

I will not invoke Godwin's Law. I will not invoke Godwin's Law. I will not invoke Godwin's Law. I will not invoke Godwin's Law. But dammit, it really actually fits this time!! jlahrdjyvrzkjhguueee

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I'm sorry, but you just don't freaking do that shit on an airplane now-a-days. If they at least had the courtesy of asking those on the flight with them if they would like to pray together according to their religious traditions, maybe it would have not freaked out the other passengers.

Having to announce one's intentions to pray is absurd. Asking others to join them in prayer (including those who were sleeping and those who don't pray) is rude. You live in a country where the freedom of religion was bought with blood, and yet you expect adherents to the second largest religion in the world to kowtow to your ignorance of their customs? If something as basic as the prayers of 21% of the world population freaks you out, perhaps cracking a book and developing a rudimentary understanding of the practice would be a stress-reducing use of your time. It would most certainly be more informative and effective then simply expecting each and every one of them who comes into contact with you to ask your permission before engaging in prayer.

Blues,
Dave

Theoretically, I agree with you. Realistically, 6 muslim men suddenly standing and praying on an airplane would make me, and 99% of the Americans on board think they were probably preparing to meet their maker.

I wonder how many here who say they would have no problem with it might react differently if they were on the plane. It's like the anti-abortion crowd. They are against it until their daughter is raped.

If, in fact, they were praying in the terminal, I would never have a second thought about it.

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[shropshire 0]

I hope one crosses themselves next time I' at an airport... or I'll have to call for a sky marshall....

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

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Having to announce one's intentions to pray is absurd. Asking others to join them in prayer (including those who were sleeping and those who don't pray) is rude. You live in a country where the freedom of religion was bought with blood, and yet you expect adherents to the second largest religion in the world to kowtow to your ignorance of their customs? If something as basic as the prayers of 21% of the world population freaks you out, perhaps cracking a book and developing a rudimentary understanding of the practice would be a stress-reducing use of your time. It would most certainly be more informative and effective then simply expecting each and every one of them who comes into contact with you to ask your permission before engaging in prayer.

Blues,
Dave

I'm amazed that so many people seem incapable of (or are unwilling to) recognize that this incident was significantly more than just an innocent evening prayer session.

For those who don't get it, try and figure out why it's against the law to yell FIRE in a crowded theater.

I'm neither incapable nor unwilling to recognize that more than prayer was involved. I stated that these people deserved to be arrested for not leaving the airplane when asked. Your quote of me above is in reply to a person who said he would kill someone for praying, and your analogy of prayer to yelling fire in a theater is bewildering. It's logical for people to be afraid of fire, as fire routinely hurts and kills. Being afraid of prayer though? When was the last time someone was hurt or killed by a prayer?

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[kallend 2,026]

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Nonsense - between 1968 and 1972 alone there were 124 hijackings of US planes.

Once again, can you please supply your sources. I looked at wikipedia like you mentioned and did not find that information.

[billvon 2,990]

>Can you give a link to the story you read so that I have a more well
>rounded idea of what transpired.


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US airline vows probe after six imams kicked off flight
2 hours, 58 minutes ago

WASHINGTON (AFP) - US Airways said it was investigating an incident in which six Muslim imams were handcuffed and removed from a flight at a Minnesota airport but later released without charges.

"We are diligently conducting our own investigation today," US Airways spokeswoman Valerie Wunder said in a statement.

A civil liberties group for US Muslims expressed concern the six imams had been singled out without cause out of fear and prejudice.

The pilot asked authorities to remove the six men on Monday after passengers expressed "concern" about their actions, said Patrick Hogan, spokesman for Minneapolis-St Paul International airport

In the gate area before boarding the aircraft bound for Phoenix, Arizona, the six Muslims "were praying loudly and spouting some kind of anti-US rhetoric regarding the war in Iraq and Saddam Hussein," said Hogan, citing a police investigation.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20061121/ts_alt_afp/usairlinesecurity_061121191503

[Gravitymaster 0]

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When was the last time someone was hurt or killed by a prayer?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12467604/?GT1=7938

[kallend 2,026]

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But you aren't taking into account history. Christians have not commited a terrorist act invovling the hijacking of Arab airplanes and crashing them into Arab buildings in an attempt to kill Arab people.

Don't need to, we've killed tens of thousands by invading their country and dropping bombs on them.

But we haven't killed tens of thousands by hijacking airplanes and crashing them into buildings (hence the context which you refuse to take into account).

So killing them our way is acceptable, but their killing us their way is unacceptable?

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.