Cops are such hereos

[masterrig 1]

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If, someone is going to impersonate a police officer, it's not necessarily a home invasion situation. A short while back, we had a mother-son 'team' working the highways in the area. They had an old police car and were pulling people over, flashing phony badges and robbing them. I don't care how you slice it. A law gets made... someone is going to find a way to get around it or flat, break it. Any of the home invasions in our area, the 'gangers' just kicked-in the doors, flashing guns and catching folks off-guard. Seems like, if the crooks identified themselves as cops, they're just tacking-on another charge against them. I'm not saying it doesn't happen. Then too, crooks are mostly idiots to begin with.


Chuck

The question remains. What would you do if you heard a pounding on your door, people yelling that they are police and you have 20 seconds to unlock and lie spread eagle on the floor. And there was no way for you to know if they really were cops or not.

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I'd have my pistol ready and try to peek out a window to see for sure who it is. I'd yell back to let them know I was there. As for that 20-second rule, it's rarely used. As I mentioned before, announce/kick takes paperwork but, that's how it's done. Where I live now, I don't worry about that kind of thing... that's why, I moved to the mountains!

edit to add: Any of the home invasions that took place in the town I moved from, they were gang-bangers and didn't announce shit! They kicked-in the front door and held the occupants at gun point while others took cash and valuables.

Chuck

[Amazon 7]

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Where I live now, I don't worry about that kind of thing... that's why, I moved to the mountains

Yeah Randy Weaver moved to the mountains as well.

[masterrig 1]

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Where I live now, I don't worry about that kind of thing... that's why, I moved to the mountains

Yeah Randy Weaver moved to the mountains as well.

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Yup! No more car burglars, dope dealers, boomin' car stereos, gang-bangers and all that other crap. The most violence I've seen here was, buck deer bumpin' antlers. The most noise has been the birds chirpin' or the breeze blowin' through the trees.


Chuck

[likearock 2]

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The question remains. What would you do if you heard a pounding on your door, people yelling that they are police and you have 20 seconds to unlock and lie spread eagle on the floor. And there was no way for you to know if they really were cops or not.

I'd have my pistol ready and try to peek out a window to see for sure who it is. I'd yell back to let them know I was there. As for that 20-second rule, it's rarely used. As I mentioned before, announce/kick takes paperwork but, that's how it's done. Where I live now, I don't worry about that kind of thing... that's why, I moved to the mountains!

Right, but not everyone has the luxury of moving to the mountains. In particular, that 92 y.o. woman probably didn't. She was just stuck in a dangerous neighborhood where a lot of bad people had guns. And if you had been in her place and would have acted differently, please let us know.

[Zenister 0]

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...It's real easy to be a Monday morning quarterback. None of us was there. None of us has all the facts.

A fact lost on many on this board, and twisted to non-sequitor topics, such as drugs, guns, and half-assed whiny diatribes on narcissism and selfishness clothed in the deceitful guise of "personal freedom."

A fact lost on many is that we have become a society that routinely excuses cops shooting little old ladies and similar atrocities, like the Diallo case. A society that accepts phonetapping without a court order. A society that accepts cameras on street corners. A society that accepts all the trappings of a police state.

ofc. Errors and Mistakes on the part of 'the State' are "Part of the risks of the job" and are excused, but if the populace were to make the same kind of mistake the tolerance for 'error' becomes extremely low...

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Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[Lindsey 0]

ofc. Errors and Mistakes on the part of 'the State' are "Part of the risks of the job" and are excused, but if the populace were to make the same kind of mistake the tolerance for 'error' becomes extremely low...

And I don't think the same mistake on the part of "the State" would be so easily excused if this had occurred in a more affluent neighborhood and the grandmother they killed had been someone more highly regarded by society.

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[masterrig 1]

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The question remains. What would you do if you heard a pounding on your door, people yelling that they are police and you have 20 seconds to unlock and lie spread eagle on the floor. And there was no way for you to know if they really were cops or not.

I'd have my pistol ready and try to peek out a window to see for sure who it is. I'd yell back to let them know I was there. As for that 20-second rule, it's rarely used. As I mentioned before, announce/kick takes paperwork but, that's how it's done. Where I live now, I don't worry about that kind of thing... that's why, I moved to the mountains!

Right, but not everyone has the luxury of moving to the mountains. In particular, that 92 y.o. woman probably didn't. She was just stuck in a dangerous neighborhood where a lot of bad people had guns. And if you had been in her place and would have acted differently, please let us know.

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I'm really, not sure where, you are going with this. You didn't know that woman. To be realistic, she may never have been a 'sweet little old lady'. Then again, she might have baked cookies for the neighbor kids. There's a whole bunch we don't know about the whole situation... we weren't there. Making-up scenarios and 'what if's' will get us no-where. What I do in a situation has no bearing on what you or anyone else would do in a certain situation. This thread, needs to die a sudden death!


Chuck

[livendive 8]

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I agree. If, they did screw-up, they need to be held accountable... just like anyone else.


Chuck

They've taken a manslaughter plea bargain rather than go to trial for murder. I'd hope they're placed in the general population, but either way it's nice to see at least some accountability. Story Here

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ATLANTA, Georgia (AP) -- Two police officers pleaded guilty Thursday to manslaughter in the shooting death of a 92-year-old woman during a botched drug raid last fall. A third officer still faces charges in the woman's death.

Officer J.R. Smith told the judge Thursday that he regretted what had happened.

"I'm sorry," the 35-year-old said, his voice barely audible. He pleaded guilty to manslaughter, violation of oath, criminal solicitation, making false statements and perjury, which was based on untrue claims in a warrant.

Former Officer Gregg Junnier, 40, who retired from the Atlanta police force in January, pleaded guilty to manslaughter, violation of oath, criminal solicitation and making false statements. Both men are expected to face more than 10 years in prison.

The charges followed a November 21 "no-knock" drug raid on the home of Kathryn Johnston, 92. An informant had described buying drugs from a dealer there, police said. When the officers burst in without warning, Johnston fired at them, and they fired back, killing her.

Fulton County prosecutor Peter Johnson disclosed Thursday that the officers involved in Johnston's death fired 39 shots, striking her five or six times, including a fatal blow to the chest.

He said Johnston only fired once through her door and didn't hit any of the officers. That means the officers who were wounded likely were hit by their own colleagues, he said.

Junnier and Smith, who is on administrative leave, had been charged in an indictment unsealed earlier Thursday with felony murder, violation of oath by a public officer, criminal solicitation, burglary, aggravated assault with a deadly weapon and making false statements.

The third officer, Arthur Tesler, also on administrative leave, was charged with violation of oath by a public officer, making false statements and false imprisonment under color of legal process. His attorney, William McKenney, said Tesler expects to go to trial.

Tesler, 40, is "very relieved" not to face murder charges, McKenney said, "but we're concerned about the three charges."

In Junnier's and Smith's cases, prosecutors asked the judge Thursday to withhold sentencing until after a hearing later Thursday in federal court where both are expected to enter pleas.

U.S. Attorney David Nahmias told The Associated Press that the recommended federal sentence for Junnier will be 10 years and one month in prison, and for Smith, 12 years, seven months. The state and federal sentences are expected to run concurrently.

Both men could have faced up to life in prison had they been convicted of murder.

The deadly drug raid had been set up after narcotics officers said an informant had claimed there was cocaine in the home.

When the plainclothes officers burst in without notice, police said Johnston fired at them and they fired back. No cocaine was found.

The case raised serious questions about no-knock warrants and whether the officers followed proper procedures.

Atlanta Police Chief Richard Pennington asked the FBI to lead a multi-agency probe into the shootout. He also announced policy changes to require the department to drug-test its nearly 1,800 officers and mandate that top supervisors sign off on narcotics operations and no-knock warrants.

To get the warrant, officers told a magistrate judge that an undercover informant had told them Johnston's home had surveillance cameras monitored carefully by a drug dealer named "Sam."

After the shooting, a man claiming to be the informant told a television station that he never purchased drugs there, prompting Pennington to admit he was uncertain whether the suspected drug dealer actually existed.

The Rev. Markel Hutchins, a civil rights activist who serves as a spokesman for Johnston's family, said the family was satisfied with Thursday's developments.

"They have never sought vengeance. They have only sought justice," he said.

Hutchins said the family is considering civil action against the police department.

"I think what happened today makes it very clear that Ms. Johnston was violated, that her civil rights were violated," he said.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[masterrig 1]

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I agree. If, they did screw-up, they need to be held accountable... just like anyone else.


Chuck

They've taken a manslaughter plea bargain rather than go to trial for murder. I'd hope they're placed in the general population, but either way it's nice to see at least some accountability. Story Here

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ATLANTA, Georgia (AP) -- Two police officers pleaded guilty Thursday to manslaughter in the shooting death of a 92-year-old woman during a botched drug raid last fall. A third officer still faces charges in the woman's death.

Officer J.R. Smith told the judge Thursday that he regretted what had happened.

"I'm sorry," the 35-year-old said, his voice barely audible. He pleaded guilty to manslaughter, violation of oath, criminal solicitation, making false statements and perjury, which was based on untrue claims in a warrant.

Former Officer Gregg Junnier, 40, who retired from the Atlanta police force in January, pleaded guilty to manslaughter, violation of oath, criminal solicitation and making false statements. Both men are expected to face more than 10 years in prison.

The charges followed a November 21 "no-knock" drug raid on the home of Kathryn Johnston, 92. An informant had described buying drugs from a dealer there, police said. When the officers burst in without warning, Johnston fired at them, and they fired back, killing her.

Fulton County prosecutor Peter Johnson disclosed Thursday that the officers involved in Johnston's death fired 39 shots, striking her five or six times, including a fatal blow to the chest.

He said Johnston only fired once through her door and didn't hit any of the officers. That means the officers who were wounded likely were hit by their own colleagues, he said.

Junnier and Smith, who is on administrative leave, had been charged in an indictment unsealed earlier Thursday with felony murder, violation of oath by a public officer, criminal solicitation, burglary, aggravated assault with a deadly weapon and making false statements.

The third officer, Arthur Tesler, also on administrative leave, was charged with violation of oath by a public officer, making false statements and false imprisonment under color of legal process. His attorney, William McKenney, said Tesler expects to go to trial.

Tesler, 40, is "very relieved" not to face murder charges, McKenney said, "but we're concerned about the three charges."

In Junnier's and Smith's cases, prosecutors asked the judge Thursday to withhold sentencing until after a hearing later Thursday in federal court where both are expected to enter pleas.

U.S. Attorney David Nahmias told The Associated Press that the recommended federal sentence for Junnier will be 10 years and one month in prison, and for Smith, 12 years, seven months. The state and federal sentences are expected to run concurrently.

Both men could have faced up to life in prison had they been convicted of murder.

The deadly drug raid had been set up after narcotics officers said an informant had claimed there was cocaine in the home.

When the plainclothes officers burst in without notice, police said Johnston fired at them and they fired back. No cocaine was found.

The case raised serious questions about no-knock warrants and whether the officers followed proper procedures.

Atlanta Police Chief Richard Pennington asked the FBI to lead a multi-agency probe into the shootout. He also announced policy changes to require the department to drug-test its nearly 1,800 officers and mandate that top supervisors sign off on narcotics operations and no-knock warrants.

To get the warrant, officers told a magistrate judge that an undercover informant had told them Johnston's home had surveillance cameras monitored carefully by a drug dealer named "Sam."

After the shooting, a man claiming to be the informant told a television station that he never purchased drugs there, prompting Pennington to admit he was uncertain whether the suspected drug dealer actually existed.

The Rev. Markel Hutchins, a civil rights activist who serves as a spokesman for Johnston's family, said the family was satisfied with Thursday's developments.

"They have never sought vengeance. They have only sought justice," he said.

Hutchins said the family is considering civil action against the police department.

"I think what happened today makes it very clear that Ms. Johnston was violated, that her civil rights were violated," he said.

Blues,
Dave

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They screwed-up and were held accountable for their actions... good enough.
By the way, thanks Dave, for the follow-up on this.

Chuck

[SuperKat 0]

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Cops are inherent liars, so the only side we know is that of the cops. I would guess they gave a simultaneous knock-announce, so it likely startled her and she started blasting.

For those of you who don't know. There is such a thing as a "NO KNOCK" warrant.

Obviously, there is a lot of information that's being left out here. When there are fugitives involved or if the suspect poses an immediate threat to society, those are considered exigent circumstances.

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EXFAO: You shoot at a cop, you take your chances.

If a cop gets shot at, they have to put a stop to the immediate threat. There are no gray lines there.

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How do they know that there is a 92-yr. old woman shooting at them... at night?

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The warrant probably indicated who lives there.

Do you know that for a fact? Did you actually see this warrant?

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Scoop: Sounds like botched intelligence job or possibly someones moved recently. Believe it or not criminals like to make it hard to track them down and frequently move house so conducting warrants to find who your after isn't there anymore is quite common.

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Bigun: The fault wasn't in the police department's operational execution, nor her reaction. The fault was in the intel phase.

Excellent point. Cops act accordingly to the intel that's provided to them.

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The last part, it would only matter if they were told of the age of teh occupant, as they could assume the senses would be off and perhaps she could have had dimmentia.

Your points have too many what ifs...Look at the situation in black and white. Cops had a warrant for such and such fugitives or suspects. Woman on the other end of the door doesn't respond so they kick down the door. Cops burst in, looking for fugitives or suspects, they hear gun fire, 3 cops are shot at and injured by the gun fire. Do you obviously think they have the luxury to collude together and say "Hey guys, it's possible this can be an old lady with dementia firing at us. Maybe we should look into it. You and you, drag these 3 injured cops out and get them medical attention while I go find out if it's an old lady or not. Plain and simple, they're being shot at, 3 cops got shot, and they had to immediately eliminate the threat.

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No, my friend, the courts have other linguistic measures in this case to defend teh actions of cops blowingpeople away and for admission of evidence, it is called, "The good Faith exception."

You have a lot to learn my friend. DA's get gold stars for prosecuting cops for corruption, misconduct and abuse of authority. You're watching too much law and order to think that there is actually a camraderie between cops and the DA.

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That's probably fair. The intel phase includes swearing a statement, establishing the credibility of the witness(es), and the judge's discretion. The execution phase could be blamed in part, maybe, but we would have to examine the circumstances and evidence.

Now that was well said and impartial of you. How do you turn yourself on and off like that?

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The cops are self-serving; they will lie to defend each otehr to the end of time. Honorable on one end, disgusting in that it's criminal.

You are definitely watching way too many movies. You obviously don't know about IAB, Investigations, Supervisors, and cops who are rats. IAB's job is to find corrupt cops and cops who abuse their authority and prosecute them like criminals. Investigations, records and documents every single thing that you say to them and they'll hang you any chance that they can get. Supervisors will crucify you once they find out that you're up to no good. If you're under their watch, and you screw up, they will hang you by the balls. Cops who are rats will give you up in a heartbeat. Why should they lose their job, their pension and risk going to jail just to protect someone who is corrupt?

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cops in some states can hold you down and forcibly draw blood on a DUI stop.

There was an incident where a drunk driver killed a family of 4, two children, husband and wife. He was totally aware of what he had done. He fled the scene. And when he got caught, he refused to take a breathalyzer. Now, if that was your family that got killed in that accident, do you think it would be unfair to the suspect to hold him down to draw blood?

There is way too much post whoring in this thread. Look Lucky, you seem like a smart guy. You have way too much hate in your blood for cops. I'm sure there are a lot of cops out there that give other cops a bad name but there's no reason to single out the whole entire nation of cops for what a few bad ones have done. Cops are human too. They'll screw up a lot just like anyone else would. They are not perfect people. Try putting yourself in their shoes. You're monday night quarterbacking this whole situation. I guarantee you if you are presented with high stress situations such as they are day in and day out, you would probably freeze or you would definitely make a bad judgement call.

Frankly, I think you should participate in a cops' fraternity event. They have different clubs such as skiing, fishing, camping, religious groups, football teams, baseball teams, rugby teams, etc. Interact with them and you'll see that they're not bad people nor are they corrupt people.

For most of my life I have been harassed by police because they were always under the impression I was affiliated with an asian gang. I've gotten pulled over and harassed on countless occassions because of my skin color. I've had guns pulled on my face. I've had my car searched with all my stuff thrown out in the street for me to pick up when they left. I've been screamed at, roughed up, and even insulted by cops. And guess what. I became one of them. Since I'm on the other side, now I fully understand why they acted that way. It was me. I was the problem. I didn't give them any respect or courtesy. I was loud mouthed, disrespectful and confrontational.

Now, when I talk to people, put myself in this mode: How would I want a cop to talk to me or approach me if I were being pulled over or being asked questions. I'm always putting myself in that mode and let me tell you, 95% of the time I get great repoire with people. It's a great feeling when you have a 6'4" 260 lb guy curse the ever loving shit out of you for stopping him and then after deescalating the situation, he ends up apologizing to me and shaking my hand. Not only am I relieved that he didn't wipe the floor with me but I'm really glad that I left a positive impression with him regarding cops. And that's all that matters.

What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo?

[skycop 0]

Very well put.......
FOR A FREAKIN' ROOKIE..............

I could'nt have put it any better, I really enjoy using communication skills to de-escalate situations. My goal everytime I interact with people is to have them say thank you or shake my hand. Even if they disagree with me or my actions, they know where I'm coming from.
And yes, me and every supervisor I know will absolutely hammer an officer, if they willingly or knowingly act in an inappropriate or unprofessional manner.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[SuperKat 0]

P.S. Cop aren't out there to shoot people, arrest them, rough them up or drown them with tickets.

I pull over 60 people a day for no seat belts, talking on their cell phones with no hands free head set, making illegal u-turns over double yellow lines, blocking driving lanes by parking on them, yadda yadda yadda.... I check their history, for prior arrests, license suspensions, outstanding/unpaid tickets. After they come up clean, if they're polite, courteous, and they can articulate a good answer as to why they commited the traffic infraction, I let them go on their merry way with a polite but firm warning. Do you know how many moving violation summons I issue a month? 2

How's that for being a corrupt inherant lying PIG?

What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo?

[SuperKat 0]

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Very well put.......
FOR A FREAKIN' ROOKIE

Can I please go on not hearing that for just one day? Is it possible?! You know what us Rooks call know it all guys with T on the J like you? Hairbags.

You know you just made me look bad. I made it seem like I was on the job for 15 years. But you had to spoil it!

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And yes, me and every supervisor I know will absolutely hammer an officer, if they willingly or knowingly act in an inappropriate or unprofessional manner.

Dude, I hear it all the time. I get yelled at more by other cops than I do by my supervisors. It sucks being a rookie! They stop calling you a Rook only after 5 years of service. They're always playing pranks on me too. I can't wait to be a hairbag like you one day!

The other day, the seasoned guys went over the air and pretended to be the next tour that was my relief. They had me doing an equipment and supply check. I found everything except for the Left handed tire jack. I was sweating while tossing the RMP for a good 15 minutes. They finally came up to me and started laughing. You guys aren't nice!

What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo?