GQ_jumper 4 #101 December 12, 2006 So far the evidence indicates the cops were in the wrong. Quote You really crack me up, you preach assumption of innocence but sit there and point fingers after drawing a little bit of evidence from some news stories. I'm sorry if you have had a lot of negative dealings with law enforcement officials, but that shouldn't lead you to always look at them in such a demeaning manner. And maybe you wouldn't have a lot of negative dealings with the police if you wouldn't put yourself in situations where they are likely to show up, and maybe the dealings wouldn't have been negative if there had been a bit more effort on YOUR part to keep it from going that way.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #102 December 12, 2006 QuoteYou really crack me up, you preach assumption of innocence but sit there and point fingers after drawing a little bit of evidence from some news stories. I'm sorry if you have had a lot of negative dealings with law enforcement officials, but that shouldn't lead you to always look at them in such a demeaning manner. And maybe you wouldn't have a lot of negative dealings with the police if you wouldn't put yourself in situations where they are likely to show up, and maybe the dealings wouldn't have been negative if there had been a bit more effort on YOUR part to keep it from going that way. My position has been very consistent. No. I haven't even claimed the cops should be tried, yet. However, based on the evidence that has thus far been presented, which is admittedly incomplete, the cops were in the wrong in this situation, for more than a single reason. I never try to give a cop a reason to be a dick. Nor do I voluntarily give up my rights. I also will not ignore evidence just so I can have a warm fuzzy feeling about the police.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #103 December 12, 2006 Some of your posts imply that you would be non-compliant with police because you, "know your rights," how is that not asking for a negative interaction?History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #104 December 12, 2006 QuoteSome of your posts imply that you would be non-compliant with police because you, "know your rights," how is that not asking for a negative interaction? A better question: How is exercising my rights asking for a negative reaction from the police?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #105 December 12, 2006 QuoteYou are suck a badass, I am so impressed I put down what I would do in a situation where some wingnuts pulled guns.. in civilian clothing.. so no one knows they are cops.. and I was in a car.. I guess YOU would go all macho and pull out a gun.. and start shooting back... WHOA. I am so impressed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #106 December 13, 2006 A better question: How is exercising my rights asking for a negative reaction from the police? Quote If exercising your rights means being non-compliant you are aking for trouble, maybe they are stepping on your rights in a given situation, but in there head they need to handle a situation in a certain manner. Now do you think yu are better off going with what they say and when the time is appropriate(the situation has de-escelated and you now have a chance to speak with the officer) make an attempt to exercise your rights, maybe explaining to them how they are infringing on them, and if they pursue further action by taking you in and they were in violation of your rights, well for one you have nothing to worry about because you will get off clean, and two you will probably get a nice settlement out of it. Or do you think you would be better off making an issue and refusing to follow their directions because they aren't allowing you to fully exercise your rights. when they have decided something needs to happen they are going to make it happen whether it be the right answer or not, and who is going to have the high ground in court, a man who cooperated with the officers and through a mistake ended up in handcuffs, or a man who starts problems screaming "I have my rights"? It's common sense, they control the situation, and even if a fucked up macho attitude led them to take action go with it, swallow your pride and take action when appropriate. Honestly I truly believe it's your own fault you have had negative experiences with the law, maybe ou should consider a lifestyle change so you won't find yourself in these situations, and if you must continue down such a path, maybe exercise a little more restraint when it comes to mouthing off or taking action in defense of "your rights".History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,026 #107 December 13, 2006 QuoteA better question: How is exercising my rights asking for a negative reaction from the police? Quote If exercising your rights means being non-compliant you are aking for trouble, maybe they are stepping on your rights in a given situation, but in there head they need to handle a situation in a certain manner. Now do you think yu are better off going with what they say and when the time is appropriate(the situation has de-escelated and you now have a chance to speak with the officer) make an attempt to exercise your rights, maybe explaining to them how they are infringing on them, and if they pursue further action by taking you in and they were in violation of your rights, well for one you have nothing to worry about because you will get off clean, and two you will probably get a nice settlement out of it. ". If rights are conditional as you suggest here, they aren't rights at all.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #108 December 13, 2006 QuoteIf exercising your rights means being non-compliant you are aking for trouble, maybe they are stepping on your rights in a given situation, but in there head they need to handle a situation in a certain manner. If they cannot perform their duties within the guidelines of the Constitution and laws, they have no business having a badge. Exercising my rights should not imply guilt in any way. QuoteNow do you think yu are better off going with what they say and when the time is appropriate(the situation has de-escelated and you now have a chance to speak with the officer) make an attempt to exercise your rights, maybe explaining to them how they are infringing on them, and if they pursue further action by taking you in and they were in violation of your rights, well for one you have nothing to worry about because you will get off clean, and two you will probably get a nice settlement out of it. LMAO. You've never been hassled by cops, have you? It doesn't work like that. First off, if you speak, you've waived his/her right to remain silence. I'm not trying to scheme a paycheck from the local tax revenue. I want to be able to exercise my rights with an assumption of guilt. That's how it's supposed to work in free countries. QuoteOr do you think you would be better off making an issue and refusing to follow their directions because they aren't allowing you to fully exercise your rights. Yes, I should be able to exercise all my rights, fully, everytime, no matter what. That's why they are called rights. Quotewhen they have decided something needs to happen they are going to make it happen whether it be the right answer or not, and who is going to have the high ground in court, a man who cooperated with the officers and through a mistake ended up in handcuffs, or a man who starts problems screaming "I have my rights"? I'm FAR more likely to end up in handcuffs by not exercising my rights. Much better not to go to jail to start out with, IMO. That is most probable if I exercise all my rights. QuoteHonestly I truly believe it's your own fault you have had negative experiences with the law, maybe ou should consider a lifestyle change so you won't find yourself in these situations, and if you must continue down such a path, maybe exercise a little more restraint when it comes to mouthing off or taking action in defense of "your rights". Awfully judgmental aren't you? My record's clean (minor traffic violations not withstanding). I don't do anything to cause problems. That doesn't mean I don't get hassled by Johnny Law for whatever reason he might conjure up. A soldier of all people should not judge a civilian for exercising his rights. Or is that whole "defend the Constitution" oath just lip service? Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #109 December 13, 2006 If rights are conditional as you suggest here, they aren't rights at all.Quote Do you even read my posts?History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #110 December 13, 2006 QuoteQuoteIf rights are conditional as you suggest here, they aren't rights at all. Do you even read my posts? I did. To paraphrase, you suggested rights are conditional.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #111 December 13, 2006 I did. To paraphrase, you suggested rights are conditional. Quote good god, is your last name really Kallend? obviously you didn't read my post or you would have realized that question wasn't even to you. Remember what I have said in many previous posts about people not listening? perfect example right here, this and your other post, I am making an attempt to see things from your side and understand where you are coming from, and to an extent I do, and even agree with certain parts of your take on this. You on the other hand seem to not take a second to understand the point I am trying to get across but rather simply look at the words on the screen and throw out a contradictory reply. It seems futile to continue to debate you, but I'm going to continue to try regardless, even if I can't change your mind maybe I can at least get you to stop and make an attempt to understand where I am coming from, maybe I just haven't stated my point clearly and if I haven't I apologize I'll try and do it better.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #112 December 13, 2006 Quotegood god, is your last name really Kallend? obviously you didn't read my post or you would have realized that question wasn't even to you. Remember what I have said in many previous posts about people not listening? If people are constantly misunderstanding you, perhaps you should choose your words more carefully. And use the return key once in a while, for crying out loud. Quoteperfect example right here, this and your other post, I am making an attempt to see things from your side and understand where you are coming from, and to an extent I do, and even agree with certain parts of your take on this. You on the other hand seem to not take a second to understand the point I am trying to get across but rather simply look at the words on the screen and throw out a contradictory reply. I know of no other way to understand your thoughts than to just look at your words on the screen. If my reply seem contradictory, it is probably because I disagree with your post, and I'm bored. QuoteIt seems futile to continue to debate you, but I'm going to continue to try regardless, even if I can't change your mind maybe I can at least get you to stop and make an attempt to understand where I am coming from, maybe I just haven't stated my point clearly and if I haven't I apologize I'll try and do it better. I'm just shocked that exercising ones rights on a regular basis seems to some to be radical behavior. Have we really slipped that far down the slope?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,026 #113 December 13, 2006 QuoteIf rights are conditional as you suggest here, they aren't rights at all.Quote Do you even read my posts? I did indeed. Your statement on the exercise of your rights is that it is wise to refrain from doing so if the conditions aren't conducive. THAT is saying that they are not rights at all, but are conditional, (or to put it another way, privileges dependent on timing and the goodwill of the cop). Easy, really.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,026 #114 December 13, 2006 QuoteI did. To paraphrase, you suggested rights are conditional. Quote good god, is your last name really Kallend? obviously you didn't read my post or you would have realized that question wasn't even to you. . If a question is just for one person, you can PM it. You posted a question on an open forum, so it's fair game for anyone to answer.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #115 December 13, 2006 I'm just shocked that exercising ones rights on a regular basis seems to some to be radical behavior. Have we really slipped that far down the slope?Quote please don't feel that this is what I am trying to say, I don't consider exercising your rights to be radical behavior. Give me a few hours and I think I may be able to convey my point in a way you might like a bit better, and from looking at your replies and trying to understand where you are coming from I think you may even agree with me. But for now I'm in the middle of trying to get my wireless router back up and running so I keep unplugging the modem, and am about to take a break from that to head to the gym, so I'll wrap this one up in a few hours or possibly in the morning. Take careHistory does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Scoop 0 #116 December 13, 2006 Look up Betaris Box It explains perfectly, how psychologically a negative or aggressive attitude can escalate a situation. So stop being awkward and just be reasonable and maybe you'll find things go along much smoother from now on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #117 December 13, 2006 QuoteLook up Betaris Box It explains perfectly, how psychologically a negative or aggressive attitude can escalate a situation. So stop being awkward and just be reasonable and maybe you'll find things go along much smoother from now on. My point is, exercising one's rights should not be seen as negative or aggressive behavior. It should not escalate the situation at all.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CameraNewbie 0 #118 December 13, 2006 QuoteI'm reading this stuff and I'm wondering why he even said that if his profile says he lives in Jersey. Where you from miss thang? I was born and bred in NYC and I've lived here for over 37 years. I just moved to NJ less than 3 mos ago. If you would have read that I know Brownsville, Brooklyn, The South Bronx & South Queens you would have figured out I know the fucked up part of NYC. QuoteI don't know what papers you're reading but I have yet to hear of a gun INSIDE the car (how'd it get out? was it like in the old western movies when you hold up a gun and Clint Eastwood shoots it RIGHT out of your hand?) Read the papers Miss April Cat Diva. It said that the police officers said that they strongly believed that there was a gun in the car. I never said that there was one. The newspapers did. Hoy Ve! Forget all that noise. My main point is that why don't we trust the American Justice System and allow them to do their job. Wait till all the facts are presented in court and see what verdict the jury comes up with. We're not crime scene investigators that were at the scene. We're not eye witnessess that were at the scene. We're not cops that were at the scene. We're not victims that were at the scene. Ya feel me? Know I mean?What do protesters want? Dead cops! When do they want it? Every 2 weeks! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites aprilcat 0 #119 December 15, 2006 Ya feel me? Know I mean? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Please do not condescend to me and feel the need to have to speak 'ghetto' to me. I have an education and I am able to converse in English. If you feel there is some need to talk to me differently as you would any other poster on this forum it makes it easy to believe people are getting shot at in their cars because of skin color. Go back to your original post. You worked with people in the mailroom who have served time and 'heard from the horses mouth.....'..not every horse has the same experience. I personally don't care what neighborhood a person is from or in. It doesn't matter what crime someone in a car has served time for BEFORE (that the cops would have no way of knowing. What the hell good is it to release criminals if we continually criminalize them in our minds?) There isn't much a human can do that warrants over 50 shots into a car when there is no KNOWN crime committed. But if you insist on speaking 'ghetto' I'll sum it up like this: I ain't trying to hear the cops no mo'. Dis is bullshit, yo. *sigh* Make sense now?~~April edited: because I mispelled 'dis'. Camelot II, the Electric Boogaloo! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #120 December 15, 2006 ' I'll sum it up like this: I ain't trying to hear the cops no mo'. Dis is bullshit, yo. *sigh* Make sense now?~~April edited: because I mispelled 'dis'. Shame on you for dat shizzle WTF would I know about speaking "ghetto" NOT A FUCKING THING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #121 December 15, 2006 Quote' I'll sum it up like this: I ain't trying to hear the cops no mo'. Dis is bullshit, yo. *sigh* Make sense now?~~April edited: because I mispelled 'dis'. Shame on you for dat shizzle WTF would I know about speaking "ghetto" NOT A FUCKING THING let me ax you sumptin Since CameraNewbie also wrote "hoy vei" can I assume he also thinks April must be some kind of yiddish-ghetto-college grad with matching gear? (but at least nice avatar) ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #122 December 16, 2006 QuoteMiss April Cat Ya feel me? Know I mean?Diva ya know, i've been on the far opposite end of a debate with aprilcat a few times, but i've never spoken in such a disrespectful manner to her. hell, i'm pretty damn tipsy right now and i'm still able to speak to someone i don't care for without being an ass about it, if me of all people can pull it off while drunk, what's ur excuse??History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DaVinci 0 #123 December 19, 2006 QuoteI guess YOU would go all macho and pull out a gun.. and start shooting back... WHOA. I am so impressed. Not even close, YOU are the only one talking about how badass you are. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DaVinci 0 #124 December 19, 2006 QuoteIt would be that simple if there had been a weapon found. A vehicle is a weapon even if the SOP requires more. QuoteSomeone posted previously in this thread that SOP for NYPD is there must be another weapon besides the vehicle to justify deadly force. Just because the SOP is that it requires more than a car...does not mean that a car is not deadly force. QuoteBesides, it hasn't been shown that the three gentlemen who were shot were trying to run anyone over. There has been statements where the cops said they had to dodge to avoid being hit by the car, AND the suspects vehicle did hit an unmarked police car. Quote I haven't seen any evidence suggesting they knew the gunmen were cops, or that they intentionally tried to run any of the gunmen down. You don't need to prove they were cops. If a vehicle comes running at you, do you think that is a threat? QuoteSo far the evidence indicates the cops were in the wrong. I agree based on the "need more than a vehicle". However, you have to agree that if the suspect did run into an unmarked cop car and tried to hit a cop or two that the shoot, while not policy, is also not a crime. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #125 December 19, 2006 QuoteI guess YOU would go all macho and pull out a gun.. and start shooting back... WHOA. I am so impressed. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Not even close, YOU are the only one talking about how badass you are. I have stated what I would do.. that is to put distance using my car or truck in my case to put distance between me and the men with guns who are NOT identified as being police.. Even though I do carry ... AND I do have a CCP.... I would STILL try to put distance between them and me....THat my dear is not being BADDASS. THAT is being prudent in that situation. Now by all means PLEASE enlighten us all to what YOU would do.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next Page 5 of 8 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing × Sign In Sign Up Forums Dropzones Classifieds Gear Indoor Articles Photos Videos Calendar Stolen Fatalities Subscriptions Leaderboard Activity Back Activity All Activity My Activity Streams Unread Content Content I Started
jcd11235 0 #102 December 12, 2006 QuoteYou really crack me up, you preach assumption of innocence but sit there and point fingers after drawing a little bit of evidence from some news stories. I'm sorry if you have had a lot of negative dealings with law enforcement officials, but that shouldn't lead you to always look at them in such a demeaning manner. And maybe you wouldn't have a lot of negative dealings with the police if you wouldn't put yourself in situations where they are likely to show up, and maybe the dealings wouldn't have been negative if there had been a bit more effort on YOUR part to keep it from going that way. My position has been very consistent. No. I haven't even claimed the cops should be tried, yet. However, based on the evidence that has thus far been presented, which is admittedly incomplete, the cops were in the wrong in this situation, for more than a single reason. I never try to give a cop a reason to be a dick. Nor do I voluntarily give up my rights. I also will not ignore evidence just so I can have a warm fuzzy feeling about the police.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GQ_jumper 4 #103 December 12, 2006 Some of your posts imply that you would be non-compliant with police because you, "know your rights," how is that not asking for a negative interaction?History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #104 December 12, 2006 QuoteSome of your posts imply that you would be non-compliant with police because you, "know your rights," how is that not asking for a negative interaction? A better question: How is exercising my rights asking for a negative reaction from the police?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #105 December 12, 2006 QuoteYou are suck a badass, I am so impressed I put down what I would do in a situation where some wingnuts pulled guns.. in civilian clothing.. so no one knows they are cops.. and I was in a car.. I guess YOU would go all macho and pull out a gun.. and start shooting back... WHOA. I am so impressed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GQ_jumper 4 #106 December 13, 2006 A better question: How is exercising my rights asking for a negative reaction from the police? Quote If exercising your rights means being non-compliant you are aking for trouble, maybe they are stepping on your rights in a given situation, but in there head they need to handle a situation in a certain manner. Now do you think yu are better off going with what they say and when the time is appropriate(the situation has de-escelated and you now have a chance to speak with the officer) make an attempt to exercise your rights, maybe explaining to them how they are infringing on them, and if they pursue further action by taking you in and they were in violation of your rights, well for one you have nothing to worry about because you will get off clean, and two you will probably get a nice settlement out of it. Or do you think you would be better off making an issue and refusing to follow their directions because they aren't allowing you to fully exercise your rights. when they have decided something needs to happen they are going to make it happen whether it be the right answer or not, and who is going to have the high ground in court, a man who cooperated with the officers and through a mistake ended up in handcuffs, or a man who starts problems screaming "I have my rights"? It's common sense, they control the situation, and even if a fucked up macho attitude led them to take action go with it, swallow your pride and take action when appropriate. Honestly I truly believe it's your own fault you have had negative experiences with the law, maybe ou should consider a lifestyle change so you won't find yourself in these situations, and if you must continue down such a path, maybe exercise a little more restraint when it comes to mouthing off or taking action in defense of "your rights".History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,026 #107 December 13, 2006 QuoteA better question: How is exercising my rights asking for a negative reaction from the police? Quote If exercising your rights means being non-compliant you are aking for trouble, maybe they are stepping on your rights in a given situation, but in there head they need to handle a situation in a certain manner. Now do you think yu are better off going with what they say and when the time is appropriate(the situation has de-escelated and you now have a chance to speak with the officer) make an attempt to exercise your rights, maybe explaining to them how they are infringing on them, and if they pursue further action by taking you in and they were in violation of your rights, well for one you have nothing to worry about because you will get off clean, and two you will probably get a nice settlement out of it. ". If rights are conditional as you suggest here, they aren't rights at all.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #108 December 13, 2006 QuoteIf exercising your rights means being non-compliant you are aking for trouble, maybe they are stepping on your rights in a given situation, but in there head they need to handle a situation in a certain manner. If they cannot perform their duties within the guidelines of the Constitution and laws, they have no business having a badge. Exercising my rights should not imply guilt in any way. QuoteNow do you think yu are better off going with what they say and when the time is appropriate(the situation has de-escelated and you now have a chance to speak with the officer) make an attempt to exercise your rights, maybe explaining to them how they are infringing on them, and if they pursue further action by taking you in and they were in violation of your rights, well for one you have nothing to worry about because you will get off clean, and two you will probably get a nice settlement out of it. LMAO. You've never been hassled by cops, have you? It doesn't work like that. First off, if you speak, you've waived his/her right to remain silence. I'm not trying to scheme a paycheck from the local tax revenue. I want to be able to exercise my rights with an assumption of guilt. That's how it's supposed to work in free countries. QuoteOr do you think you would be better off making an issue and refusing to follow their directions because they aren't allowing you to fully exercise your rights. Yes, I should be able to exercise all my rights, fully, everytime, no matter what. That's why they are called rights. Quotewhen they have decided something needs to happen they are going to make it happen whether it be the right answer or not, and who is going to have the high ground in court, a man who cooperated with the officers and through a mistake ended up in handcuffs, or a man who starts problems screaming "I have my rights"? I'm FAR more likely to end up in handcuffs by not exercising my rights. Much better not to go to jail to start out with, IMO. That is most probable if I exercise all my rights. QuoteHonestly I truly believe it's your own fault you have had negative experiences with the law, maybe ou should consider a lifestyle change so you won't find yourself in these situations, and if you must continue down such a path, maybe exercise a little more restraint when it comes to mouthing off or taking action in defense of "your rights". Awfully judgmental aren't you? My record's clean (minor traffic violations not withstanding). I don't do anything to cause problems. That doesn't mean I don't get hassled by Johnny Law for whatever reason he might conjure up. A soldier of all people should not judge a civilian for exercising his rights. Or is that whole "defend the Constitution" oath just lip service? Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #109 December 13, 2006 If rights are conditional as you suggest here, they aren't rights at all.Quote Do you even read my posts?History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #110 December 13, 2006 QuoteQuoteIf rights are conditional as you suggest here, they aren't rights at all. Do you even read my posts? I did. To paraphrase, you suggested rights are conditional.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #111 December 13, 2006 I did. To paraphrase, you suggested rights are conditional. Quote good god, is your last name really Kallend? obviously you didn't read my post or you would have realized that question wasn't even to you. Remember what I have said in many previous posts about people not listening? perfect example right here, this and your other post, I am making an attempt to see things from your side and understand where you are coming from, and to an extent I do, and even agree with certain parts of your take on this. You on the other hand seem to not take a second to understand the point I am trying to get across but rather simply look at the words on the screen and throw out a contradictory reply. It seems futile to continue to debate you, but I'm going to continue to try regardless, even if I can't change your mind maybe I can at least get you to stop and make an attempt to understand where I am coming from, maybe I just haven't stated my point clearly and if I haven't I apologize I'll try and do it better.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #112 December 13, 2006 Quotegood god, is your last name really Kallend? obviously you didn't read my post or you would have realized that question wasn't even to you. Remember what I have said in many previous posts about people not listening? If people are constantly misunderstanding you, perhaps you should choose your words more carefully. And use the return key once in a while, for crying out loud. Quoteperfect example right here, this and your other post, I am making an attempt to see things from your side and understand where you are coming from, and to an extent I do, and even agree with certain parts of your take on this. You on the other hand seem to not take a second to understand the point I am trying to get across but rather simply look at the words on the screen and throw out a contradictory reply. I know of no other way to understand your thoughts than to just look at your words on the screen. If my reply seem contradictory, it is probably because I disagree with your post, and I'm bored. QuoteIt seems futile to continue to debate you, but I'm going to continue to try regardless, even if I can't change your mind maybe I can at least get you to stop and make an attempt to understand where I am coming from, maybe I just haven't stated my point clearly and if I haven't I apologize I'll try and do it better. I'm just shocked that exercising ones rights on a regular basis seems to some to be radical behavior. Have we really slipped that far down the slope?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,026 #113 December 13, 2006 QuoteIf rights are conditional as you suggest here, they aren't rights at all.Quote Do you even read my posts? I did indeed. Your statement on the exercise of your rights is that it is wise to refrain from doing so if the conditions aren't conducive. THAT is saying that they are not rights at all, but are conditional, (or to put it another way, privileges dependent on timing and the goodwill of the cop). Easy, really.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,026 #114 December 13, 2006 QuoteI did. To paraphrase, you suggested rights are conditional. Quote good god, is your last name really Kallend? obviously you didn't read my post or you would have realized that question wasn't even to you. . If a question is just for one person, you can PM it. You posted a question on an open forum, so it's fair game for anyone to answer.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #115 December 13, 2006 I'm just shocked that exercising ones rights on a regular basis seems to some to be radical behavior. Have we really slipped that far down the slope?Quote please don't feel that this is what I am trying to say, I don't consider exercising your rights to be radical behavior. Give me a few hours and I think I may be able to convey my point in a way you might like a bit better, and from looking at your replies and trying to understand where you are coming from I think you may even agree with me. But for now I'm in the middle of trying to get my wireless router back up and running so I keep unplugging the modem, and am about to take a break from that to head to the gym, so I'll wrap this one up in a few hours or possibly in the morning. Take careHistory does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Scoop 0 #116 December 13, 2006 Look up Betaris Box It explains perfectly, how psychologically a negative or aggressive attitude can escalate a situation. So stop being awkward and just be reasonable and maybe you'll find things go along much smoother from now on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #117 December 13, 2006 QuoteLook up Betaris Box It explains perfectly, how psychologically a negative or aggressive attitude can escalate a situation. So stop being awkward and just be reasonable and maybe you'll find things go along much smoother from now on. My point is, exercising one's rights should not be seen as negative or aggressive behavior. It should not escalate the situation at all.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CameraNewbie 0 #118 December 13, 2006 QuoteI'm reading this stuff and I'm wondering why he even said that if his profile says he lives in Jersey. Where you from miss thang? I was born and bred in NYC and I've lived here for over 37 years. I just moved to NJ less than 3 mos ago. If you would have read that I know Brownsville, Brooklyn, The South Bronx & South Queens you would have figured out I know the fucked up part of NYC. QuoteI don't know what papers you're reading but I have yet to hear of a gun INSIDE the car (how'd it get out? was it like in the old western movies when you hold up a gun and Clint Eastwood shoots it RIGHT out of your hand?) Read the papers Miss April Cat Diva. It said that the police officers said that they strongly believed that there was a gun in the car. I never said that there was one. The newspapers did. Hoy Ve! Forget all that noise. My main point is that why don't we trust the American Justice System and allow them to do their job. Wait till all the facts are presented in court and see what verdict the jury comes up with. We're not crime scene investigators that were at the scene. We're not eye witnessess that were at the scene. We're not cops that were at the scene. We're not victims that were at the scene. Ya feel me? Know I mean?What do protesters want? Dead cops! When do they want it? Every 2 weeks! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites aprilcat 0 #119 December 15, 2006 Ya feel me? Know I mean? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Please do not condescend to me and feel the need to have to speak 'ghetto' to me. I have an education and I am able to converse in English. If you feel there is some need to talk to me differently as you would any other poster on this forum it makes it easy to believe people are getting shot at in their cars because of skin color. Go back to your original post. You worked with people in the mailroom who have served time and 'heard from the horses mouth.....'..not every horse has the same experience. I personally don't care what neighborhood a person is from or in. It doesn't matter what crime someone in a car has served time for BEFORE (that the cops would have no way of knowing. What the hell good is it to release criminals if we continually criminalize them in our minds?) There isn't much a human can do that warrants over 50 shots into a car when there is no KNOWN crime committed. But if you insist on speaking 'ghetto' I'll sum it up like this: I ain't trying to hear the cops no mo'. Dis is bullshit, yo. *sigh* Make sense now?~~April edited: because I mispelled 'dis'. Camelot II, the Electric Boogaloo! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #120 December 15, 2006 ' I'll sum it up like this: I ain't trying to hear the cops no mo'. Dis is bullshit, yo. *sigh* Make sense now?~~April edited: because I mispelled 'dis'. Shame on you for dat shizzle WTF would I know about speaking "ghetto" NOT A FUCKING THING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #121 December 15, 2006 Quote' I'll sum it up like this: I ain't trying to hear the cops no mo'. Dis is bullshit, yo. *sigh* Make sense now?~~April edited: because I mispelled 'dis'. Shame on you for dat shizzle WTF would I know about speaking "ghetto" NOT A FUCKING THING let me ax you sumptin Since CameraNewbie also wrote "hoy vei" can I assume he also thinks April must be some kind of yiddish-ghetto-college grad with matching gear? (but at least nice avatar) ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #122 December 16, 2006 QuoteMiss April Cat Ya feel me? Know I mean?Diva ya know, i've been on the far opposite end of a debate with aprilcat a few times, but i've never spoken in such a disrespectful manner to her. hell, i'm pretty damn tipsy right now and i'm still able to speak to someone i don't care for without being an ass about it, if me of all people can pull it off while drunk, what's ur excuse??History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DaVinci 0 #123 December 19, 2006 QuoteI guess YOU would go all macho and pull out a gun.. and start shooting back... WHOA. I am so impressed. Not even close, YOU are the only one talking about how badass you are. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DaVinci 0 #124 December 19, 2006 QuoteIt would be that simple if there had been a weapon found. A vehicle is a weapon even if the SOP requires more. QuoteSomeone posted previously in this thread that SOP for NYPD is there must be another weapon besides the vehicle to justify deadly force. Just because the SOP is that it requires more than a car...does not mean that a car is not deadly force. QuoteBesides, it hasn't been shown that the three gentlemen who were shot were trying to run anyone over. There has been statements where the cops said they had to dodge to avoid being hit by the car, AND the suspects vehicle did hit an unmarked police car. Quote I haven't seen any evidence suggesting they knew the gunmen were cops, or that they intentionally tried to run any of the gunmen down. You don't need to prove they were cops. If a vehicle comes running at you, do you think that is a threat? QuoteSo far the evidence indicates the cops were in the wrong. I agree based on the "need more than a vehicle". However, you have to agree that if the suspect did run into an unmarked cop car and tried to hit a cop or two that the shoot, while not policy, is also not a crime. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #125 December 19, 2006 QuoteI guess YOU would go all macho and pull out a gun.. and start shooting back... WHOA. I am so impressed. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Not even close, YOU are the only one talking about how badass you are. I have stated what I would do.. that is to put distance using my car or truck in my case to put distance between me and the men with guns who are NOT identified as being police.. Even though I do carry ... AND I do have a CCP.... I would STILL try to put distance between them and me....THat my dear is not being BADDASS. THAT is being prudent in that situation. Now by all means PLEASE enlighten us all to what YOU would do.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next Page 5 of 8 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
kallend 2,026 #107 December 13, 2006 QuoteA better question: How is exercising my rights asking for a negative reaction from the police? Quote If exercising your rights means being non-compliant you are aking for trouble, maybe they are stepping on your rights in a given situation, but in there head they need to handle a situation in a certain manner. Now do you think yu are better off going with what they say and when the time is appropriate(the situation has de-escelated and you now have a chance to speak with the officer) make an attempt to exercise your rights, maybe explaining to them how they are infringing on them, and if they pursue further action by taking you in and they were in violation of your rights, well for one you have nothing to worry about because you will get off clean, and two you will probably get a nice settlement out of it. ". If rights are conditional as you suggest here, they aren't rights at all.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #108 December 13, 2006 QuoteIf exercising your rights means being non-compliant you are aking for trouble, maybe they are stepping on your rights in a given situation, but in there head they need to handle a situation in a certain manner. If they cannot perform their duties within the guidelines of the Constitution and laws, they have no business having a badge. Exercising my rights should not imply guilt in any way. QuoteNow do you think yu are better off going with what they say and when the time is appropriate(the situation has de-escelated and you now have a chance to speak with the officer) make an attempt to exercise your rights, maybe explaining to them how they are infringing on them, and if they pursue further action by taking you in and they were in violation of your rights, well for one you have nothing to worry about because you will get off clean, and two you will probably get a nice settlement out of it. LMAO. You've never been hassled by cops, have you? It doesn't work like that. First off, if you speak, you've waived his/her right to remain silence. I'm not trying to scheme a paycheck from the local tax revenue. I want to be able to exercise my rights with an assumption of guilt. That's how it's supposed to work in free countries. QuoteOr do you think you would be better off making an issue and refusing to follow their directions because they aren't allowing you to fully exercise your rights. Yes, I should be able to exercise all my rights, fully, everytime, no matter what. That's why they are called rights. Quotewhen they have decided something needs to happen they are going to make it happen whether it be the right answer or not, and who is going to have the high ground in court, a man who cooperated with the officers and through a mistake ended up in handcuffs, or a man who starts problems screaming "I have my rights"? I'm FAR more likely to end up in handcuffs by not exercising my rights. Much better not to go to jail to start out with, IMO. That is most probable if I exercise all my rights. QuoteHonestly I truly believe it's your own fault you have had negative experiences with the law, maybe ou should consider a lifestyle change so you won't find yourself in these situations, and if you must continue down such a path, maybe exercise a little more restraint when it comes to mouthing off or taking action in defense of "your rights". Awfully judgmental aren't you? My record's clean (minor traffic violations not withstanding). I don't do anything to cause problems. That doesn't mean I don't get hassled by Johnny Law for whatever reason he might conjure up. A soldier of all people should not judge a civilian for exercising his rights. Or is that whole "defend the Constitution" oath just lip service? Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #109 December 13, 2006 If rights are conditional as you suggest here, they aren't rights at all.Quote Do you even read my posts?History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #110 December 13, 2006 QuoteQuoteIf rights are conditional as you suggest here, they aren't rights at all. Do you even read my posts? I did. To paraphrase, you suggested rights are conditional.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #111 December 13, 2006 I did. To paraphrase, you suggested rights are conditional. Quote good god, is your last name really Kallend? obviously you didn't read my post or you would have realized that question wasn't even to you. Remember what I have said in many previous posts about people not listening? perfect example right here, this and your other post, I am making an attempt to see things from your side and understand where you are coming from, and to an extent I do, and even agree with certain parts of your take on this. You on the other hand seem to not take a second to understand the point I am trying to get across but rather simply look at the words on the screen and throw out a contradictory reply. It seems futile to continue to debate you, but I'm going to continue to try regardless, even if I can't change your mind maybe I can at least get you to stop and make an attempt to understand where I am coming from, maybe I just haven't stated my point clearly and if I haven't I apologize I'll try and do it better.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #112 December 13, 2006 Quotegood god, is your last name really Kallend? obviously you didn't read my post or you would have realized that question wasn't even to you. Remember what I have said in many previous posts about people not listening? If people are constantly misunderstanding you, perhaps you should choose your words more carefully. And use the return key once in a while, for crying out loud. Quoteperfect example right here, this and your other post, I am making an attempt to see things from your side and understand where you are coming from, and to an extent I do, and even agree with certain parts of your take on this. You on the other hand seem to not take a second to understand the point I am trying to get across but rather simply look at the words on the screen and throw out a contradictory reply. I know of no other way to understand your thoughts than to just look at your words on the screen. If my reply seem contradictory, it is probably because I disagree with your post, and I'm bored. QuoteIt seems futile to continue to debate you, but I'm going to continue to try regardless, even if I can't change your mind maybe I can at least get you to stop and make an attempt to understand where I am coming from, maybe I just haven't stated my point clearly and if I haven't I apologize I'll try and do it better. I'm just shocked that exercising ones rights on a regular basis seems to some to be radical behavior. Have we really slipped that far down the slope?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,026 #113 December 13, 2006 QuoteIf rights are conditional as you suggest here, they aren't rights at all.Quote Do you even read my posts? I did indeed. Your statement on the exercise of your rights is that it is wise to refrain from doing so if the conditions aren't conducive. THAT is saying that they are not rights at all, but are conditional, (or to put it another way, privileges dependent on timing and the goodwill of the cop). Easy, really.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,026 #114 December 13, 2006 QuoteI did. To paraphrase, you suggested rights are conditional. Quote good god, is your last name really Kallend? obviously you didn't read my post or you would have realized that question wasn't even to you. . If a question is just for one person, you can PM it. You posted a question on an open forum, so it's fair game for anyone to answer.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #115 December 13, 2006 I'm just shocked that exercising ones rights on a regular basis seems to some to be radical behavior. Have we really slipped that far down the slope?Quote please don't feel that this is what I am trying to say, I don't consider exercising your rights to be radical behavior. Give me a few hours and I think I may be able to convey my point in a way you might like a bit better, and from looking at your replies and trying to understand where you are coming from I think you may even agree with me. But for now I'm in the middle of trying to get my wireless router back up and running so I keep unplugging the modem, and am about to take a break from that to head to the gym, so I'll wrap this one up in a few hours or possibly in the morning. Take careHistory does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Scoop 0 #116 December 13, 2006 Look up Betaris Box It explains perfectly, how psychologically a negative or aggressive attitude can escalate a situation. So stop being awkward and just be reasonable and maybe you'll find things go along much smoother from now on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #117 December 13, 2006 QuoteLook up Betaris Box It explains perfectly, how psychologically a negative or aggressive attitude can escalate a situation. So stop being awkward and just be reasonable and maybe you'll find things go along much smoother from now on. My point is, exercising one's rights should not be seen as negative or aggressive behavior. It should not escalate the situation at all.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CameraNewbie 0 #118 December 13, 2006 QuoteI'm reading this stuff and I'm wondering why he even said that if his profile says he lives in Jersey. Where you from miss thang? I was born and bred in NYC and I've lived here for over 37 years. I just moved to NJ less than 3 mos ago. If you would have read that I know Brownsville, Brooklyn, The South Bronx & South Queens you would have figured out I know the fucked up part of NYC. QuoteI don't know what papers you're reading but I have yet to hear of a gun INSIDE the car (how'd it get out? was it like in the old western movies when you hold up a gun and Clint Eastwood shoots it RIGHT out of your hand?) Read the papers Miss April Cat Diva. It said that the police officers said that they strongly believed that there was a gun in the car. I never said that there was one. The newspapers did. Hoy Ve! Forget all that noise. My main point is that why don't we trust the American Justice System and allow them to do their job. Wait till all the facts are presented in court and see what verdict the jury comes up with. We're not crime scene investigators that were at the scene. We're not eye witnessess that were at the scene. We're not cops that were at the scene. We're not victims that were at the scene. Ya feel me? Know I mean?What do protesters want? Dead cops! When do they want it? Every 2 weeks! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites aprilcat 0 #119 December 15, 2006 Ya feel me? Know I mean? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Please do not condescend to me and feel the need to have to speak 'ghetto' to me. I have an education and I am able to converse in English. If you feel there is some need to talk to me differently as you would any other poster on this forum it makes it easy to believe people are getting shot at in their cars because of skin color. Go back to your original post. You worked with people in the mailroom who have served time and 'heard from the horses mouth.....'..not every horse has the same experience. I personally don't care what neighborhood a person is from or in. It doesn't matter what crime someone in a car has served time for BEFORE (that the cops would have no way of knowing. What the hell good is it to release criminals if we continually criminalize them in our minds?) There isn't much a human can do that warrants over 50 shots into a car when there is no KNOWN crime committed. But if you insist on speaking 'ghetto' I'll sum it up like this: I ain't trying to hear the cops no mo'. Dis is bullshit, yo. *sigh* Make sense now?~~April edited: because I mispelled 'dis'. Camelot II, the Electric Boogaloo! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #120 December 15, 2006 ' I'll sum it up like this: I ain't trying to hear the cops no mo'. Dis is bullshit, yo. *sigh* Make sense now?~~April edited: because I mispelled 'dis'. Shame on you for dat shizzle WTF would I know about speaking "ghetto" NOT A FUCKING THING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #121 December 15, 2006 Quote' I'll sum it up like this: I ain't trying to hear the cops no mo'. Dis is bullshit, yo. *sigh* Make sense now?~~April edited: because I mispelled 'dis'. Shame on you for dat shizzle WTF would I know about speaking "ghetto" NOT A FUCKING THING let me ax you sumptin Since CameraNewbie also wrote "hoy vei" can I assume he also thinks April must be some kind of yiddish-ghetto-college grad with matching gear? (but at least nice avatar) ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #122 December 16, 2006 QuoteMiss April Cat Ya feel me? Know I mean?Diva ya know, i've been on the far opposite end of a debate with aprilcat a few times, but i've never spoken in such a disrespectful manner to her. hell, i'm pretty damn tipsy right now and i'm still able to speak to someone i don't care for without being an ass about it, if me of all people can pull it off while drunk, what's ur excuse??History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DaVinci 0 #123 December 19, 2006 QuoteI guess YOU would go all macho and pull out a gun.. and start shooting back... WHOA. I am so impressed. Not even close, YOU are the only one talking about how badass you are. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DaVinci 0 #124 December 19, 2006 QuoteIt would be that simple if there had been a weapon found. A vehicle is a weapon even if the SOP requires more. QuoteSomeone posted previously in this thread that SOP for NYPD is there must be another weapon besides the vehicle to justify deadly force. Just because the SOP is that it requires more than a car...does not mean that a car is not deadly force. QuoteBesides, it hasn't been shown that the three gentlemen who were shot were trying to run anyone over. There has been statements where the cops said they had to dodge to avoid being hit by the car, AND the suspects vehicle did hit an unmarked police car. Quote I haven't seen any evidence suggesting they knew the gunmen were cops, or that they intentionally tried to run any of the gunmen down. You don't need to prove they were cops. If a vehicle comes running at you, do you think that is a threat? QuoteSo far the evidence indicates the cops were in the wrong. I agree based on the "need more than a vehicle". However, you have to agree that if the suspect did run into an unmarked cop car and tried to hit a cop or two that the shoot, while not policy, is also not a crime. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #125 December 19, 2006 QuoteI guess YOU would go all macho and pull out a gun.. and start shooting back... WHOA. I am so impressed. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Not even close, YOU are the only one talking about how badass you are. I have stated what I would do.. that is to put distance using my car or truck in my case to put distance between me and the men with guns who are NOT identified as being police.. Even though I do carry ... AND I do have a CCP.... I would STILL try to put distance between them and me....THat my dear is not being BADDASS. THAT is being prudent in that situation. Now by all means PLEASE enlighten us all to what YOU would do.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next Page 5 of 8 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
jcd11235 0 #108 December 13, 2006 QuoteIf exercising your rights means being non-compliant you are aking for trouble, maybe they are stepping on your rights in a given situation, but in there head they need to handle a situation in a certain manner. If they cannot perform their duties within the guidelines of the Constitution and laws, they have no business having a badge. Exercising my rights should not imply guilt in any way. QuoteNow do you think yu are better off going with what they say and when the time is appropriate(the situation has de-escelated and you now have a chance to speak with the officer) make an attempt to exercise your rights, maybe explaining to them how they are infringing on them, and if they pursue further action by taking you in and they were in violation of your rights, well for one you have nothing to worry about because you will get off clean, and two you will probably get a nice settlement out of it. LMAO. You've never been hassled by cops, have you? It doesn't work like that. First off, if you speak, you've waived his/her right to remain silence. I'm not trying to scheme a paycheck from the local tax revenue. I want to be able to exercise my rights with an assumption of guilt. That's how it's supposed to work in free countries. QuoteOr do you think you would be better off making an issue and refusing to follow their directions because they aren't allowing you to fully exercise your rights. Yes, I should be able to exercise all my rights, fully, everytime, no matter what. That's why they are called rights. Quotewhen they have decided something needs to happen they are going to make it happen whether it be the right answer or not, and who is going to have the high ground in court, a man who cooperated with the officers and through a mistake ended up in handcuffs, or a man who starts problems screaming "I have my rights"? I'm FAR more likely to end up in handcuffs by not exercising my rights. Much better not to go to jail to start out with, IMO. That is most probable if I exercise all my rights. QuoteHonestly I truly believe it's your own fault you have had negative experiences with the law, maybe ou should consider a lifestyle change so you won't find yourself in these situations, and if you must continue down such a path, maybe exercise a little more restraint when it comes to mouthing off or taking action in defense of "your rights". Awfully judgmental aren't you? My record's clean (minor traffic violations not withstanding). I don't do anything to cause problems. That doesn't mean I don't get hassled by Johnny Law for whatever reason he might conjure up. A soldier of all people should not judge a civilian for exercising his rights. Or is that whole "defend the Constitution" oath just lip service? Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GQ_jumper 4 #109 December 13, 2006 If rights are conditional as you suggest here, they aren't rights at all.Quote Do you even read my posts?History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #110 December 13, 2006 QuoteQuoteIf rights are conditional as you suggest here, they aren't rights at all. Do you even read my posts? I did. To paraphrase, you suggested rights are conditional.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #111 December 13, 2006 I did. To paraphrase, you suggested rights are conditional. Quote good god, is your last name really Kallend? obviously you didn't read my post or you would have realized that question wasn't even to you. Remember what I have said in many previous posts about people not listening? perfect example right here, this and your other post, I am making an attempt to see things from your side and understand where you are coming from, and to an extent I do, and even agree with certain parts of your take on this. You on the other hand seem to not take a second to understand the point I am trying to get across but rather simply look at the words on the screen and throw out a contradictory reply. It seems futile to continue to debate you, but I'm going to continue to try regardless, even if I can't change your mind maybe I can at least get you to stop and make an attempt to understand where I am coming from, maybe I just haven't stated my point clearly and if I haven't I apologize I'll try and do it better.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #112 December 13, 2006 Quotegood god, is your last name really Kallend? obviously you didn't read my post or you would have realized that question wasn't even to you. Remember what I have said in many previous posts about people not listening? If people are constantly misunderstanding you, perhaps you should choose your words more carefully. And use the return key once in a while, for crying out loud. Quoteperfect example right here, this and your other post, I am making an attempt to see things from your side and understand where you are coming from, and to an extent I do, and even agree with certain parts of your take on this. You on the other hand seem to not take a second to understand the point I am trying to get across but rather simply look at the words on the screen and throw out a contradictory reply. I know of no other way to understand your thoughts than to just look at your words on the screen. If my reply seem contradictory, it is probably because I disagree with your post, and I'm bored. QuoteIt seems futile to continue to debate you, but I'm going to continue to try regardless, even if I can't change your mind maybe I can at least get you to stop and make an attempt to understand where I am coming from, maybe I just haven't stated my point clearly and if I haven't I apologize I'll try and do it better. I'm just shocked that exercising ones rights on a regular basis seems to some to be radical behavior. Have we really slipped that far down the slope?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,026 #113 December 13, 2006 QuoteIf rights are conditional as you suggest here, they aren't rights at all.Quote Do you even read my posts? I did indeed. Your statement on the exercise of your rights is that it is wise to refrain from doing so if the conditions aren't conducive. THAT is saying that they are not rights at all, but are conditional, (or to put it another way, privileges dependent on timing and the goodwill of the cop). Easy, really.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,026 #114 December 13, 2006 QuoteI did. To paraphrase, you suggested rights are conditional. Quote good god, is your last name really Kallend? obviously you didn't read my post or you would have realized that question wasn't even to you. . If a question is just for one person, you can PM it. You posted a question on an open forum, so it's fair game for anyone to answer.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #115 December 13, 2006 I'm just shocked that exercising ones rights on a regular basis seems to some to be radical behavior. Have we really slipped that far down the slope?Quote please don't feel that this is what I am trying to say, I don't consider exercising your rights to be radical behavior. Give me a few hours and I think I may be able to convey my point in a way you might like a bit better, and from looking at your replies and trying to understand where you are coming from I think you may even agree with me. But for now I'm in the middle of trying to get my wireless router back up and running so I keep unplugging the modem, and am about to take a break from that to head to the gym, so I'll wrap this one up in a few hours or possibly in the morning. Take careHistory does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Scoop 0 #116 December 13, 2006 Look up Betaris Box It explains perfectly, how psychologically a negative or aggressive attitude can escalate a situation. So stop being awkward and just be reasonable and maybe you'll find things go along much smoother from now on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #117 December 13, 2006 QuoteLook up Betaris Box It explains perfectly, how psychologically a negative or aggressive attitude can escalate a situation. So stop being awkward and just be reasonable and maybe you'll find things go along much smoother from now on. My point is, exercising one's rights should not be seen as negative or aggressive behavior. It should not escalate the situation at all.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CameraNewbie 0 #118 December 13, 2006 QuoteI'm reading this stuff and I'm wondering why he even said that if his profile says he lives in Jersey. Where you from miss thang? I was born and bred in NYC and I've lived here for over 37 years. I just moved to NJ less than 3 mos ago. If you would have read that I know Brownsville, Brooklyn, The South Bronx & South Queens you would have figured out I know the fucked up part of NYC. QuoteI don't know what papers you're reading but I have yet to hear of a gun INSIDE the car (how'd it get out? was it like in the old western movies when you hold up a gun and Clint Eastwood shoots it RIGHT out of your hand?) Read the papers Miss April Cat Diva. It said that the police officers said that they strongly believed that there was a gun in the car. I never said that there was one. The newspapers did. Hoy Ve! Forget all that noise. My main point is that why don't we trust the American Justice System and allow them to do their job. Wait till all the facts are presented in court and see what verdict the jury comes up with. We're not crime scene investigators that were at the scene. We're not eye witnessess that were at the scene. We're not cops that were at the scene. We're not victims that were at the scene. Ya feel me? Know I mean?What do protesters want? Dead cops! When do they want it? Every 2 weeks! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites aprilcat 0 #119 December 15, 2006 Ya feel me? Know I mean? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Please do not condescend to me and feel the need to have to speak 'ghetto' to me. I have an education and I am able to converse in English. If you feel there is some need to talk to me differently as you would any other poster on this forum it makes it easy to believe people are getting shot at in their cars because of skin color. Go back to your original post. You worked with people in the mailroom who have served time and 'heard from the horses mouth.....'..not every horse has the same experience. I personally don't care what neighborhood a person is from or in. It doesn't matter what crime someone in a car has served time for BEFORE (that the cops would have no way of knowing. What the hell good is it to release criminals if we continually criminalize them in our minds?) There isn't much a human can do that warrants over 50 shots into a car when there is no KNOWN crime committed. But if you insist on speaking 'ghetto' I'll sum it up like this: I ain't trying to hear the cops no mo'. Dis is bullshit, yo. *sigh* Make sense now?~~April edited: because I mispelled 'dis'. Camelot II, the Electric Boogaloo! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #120 December 15, 2006 ' I'll sum it up like this: I ain't trying to hear the cops no mo'. Dis is bullshit, yo. *sigh* Make sense now?~~April edited: because I mispelled 'dis'. Shame on you for dat shizzle WTF would I know about speaking "ghetto" NOT A FUCKING THING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #121 December 15, 2006 Quote' I'll sum it up like this: I ain't trying to hear the cops no mo'. Dis is bullshit, yo. *sigh* Make sense now?~~April edited: because I mispelled 'dis'. Shame on you for dat shizzle WTF would I know about speaking "ghetto" NOT A FUCKING THING let me ax you sumptin Since CameraNewbie also wrote "hoy vei" can I assume he also thinks April must be some kind of yiddish-ghetto-college grad with matching gear? (but at least nice avatar) ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #122 December 16, 2006 QuoteMiss April Cat Ya feel me? Know I mean?Diva ya know, i've been on the far opposite end of a debate with aprilcat a few times, but i've never spoken in such a disrespectful manner to her. hell, i'm pretty damn tipsy right now and i'm still able to speak to someone i don't care for without being an ass about it, if me of all people can pull it off while drunk, what's ur excuse??History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DaVinci 0 #123 December 19, 2006 QuoteI guess YOU would go all macho and pull out a gun.. and start shooting back... WHOA. I am so impressed. Not even close, YOU are the only one talking about how badass you are. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DaVinci 0 #124 December 19, 2006 QuoteIt would be that simple if there had been a weapon found. A vehicle is a weapon even if the SOP requires more. QuoteSomeone posted previously in this thread that SOP for NYPD is there must be another weapon besides the vehicle to justify deadly force. Just because the SOP is that it requires more than a car...does not mean that a car is not deadly force. QuoteBesides, it hasn't been shown that the three gentlemen who were shot were trying to run anyone over. There has been statements where the cops said they had to dodge to avoid being hit by the car, AND the suspects vehicle did hit an unmarked police car. Quote I haven't seen any evidence suggesting they knew the gunmen were cops, or that they intentionally tried to run any of the gunmen down. You don't need to prove they were cops. If a vehicle comes running at you, do you think that is a threat? QuoteSo far the evidence indicates the cops were in the wrong. I agree based on the "need more than a vehicle". However, you have to agree that if the suspect did run into an unmarked cop car and tried to hit a cop or two that the shoot, while not policy, is also not a crime. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #125 December 19, 2006 QuoteI guess YOU would go all macho and pull out a gun.. and start shooting back... WHOA. I am so impressed. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Not even close, YOU are the only one talking about how badass you are. I have stated what I would do.. that is to put distance using my car or truck in my case to put distance between me and the men with guns who are NOT identified as being police.. Even though I do carry ... AND I do have a CCP.... I would STILL try to put distance between them and me....THat my dear is not being BADDASS. THAT is being prudent in that situation. Now by all means PLEASE enlighten us all to what YOU would do.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next Page 5 of 8 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
jcd11235 0 #110 December 13, 2006 QuoteQuoteIf rights are conditional as you suggest here, they aren't rights at all. Do you even read my posts? I did. To paraphrase, you suggested rights are conditional.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GQ_jumper 4 #111 December 13, 2006 I did. To paraphrase, you suggested rights are conditional. Quote good god, is your last name really Kallend? obviously you didn't read my post or you would have realized that question wasn't even to you. Remember what I have said in many previous posts about people not listening? perfect example right here, this and your other post, I am making an attempt to see things from your side and understand where you are coming from, and to an extent I do, and even agree with certain parts of your take on this. You on the other hand seem to not take a second to understand the point I am trying to get across but rather simply look at the words on the screen and throw out a contradictory reply. It seems futile to continue to debate you, but I'm going to continue to try regardless, even if I can't change your mind maybe I can at least get you to stop and make an attempt to understand where I am coming from, maybe I just haven't stated my point clearly and if I haven't I apologize I'll try and do it better.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #112 December 13, 2006 Quotegood god, is your last name really Kallend? obviously you didn't read my post or you would have realized that question wasn't even to you. Remember what I have said in many previous posts about people not listening? If people are constantly misunderstanding you, perhaps you should choose your words more carefully. And use the return key once in a while, for crying out loud. Quoteperfect example right here, this and your other post, I am making an attempt to see things from your side and understand where you are coming from, and to an extent I do, and even agree with certain parts of your take on this. You on the other hand seem to not take a second to understand the point I am trying to get across but rather simply look at the words on the screen and throw out a contradictory reply. I know of no other way to understand your thoughts than to just look at your words on the screen. If my reply seem contradictory, it is probably because I disagree with your post, and I'm bored. QuoteIt seems futile to continue to debate you, but I'm going to continue to try regardless, even if I can't change your mind maybe I can at least get you to stop and make an attempt to understand where I am coming from, maybe I just haven't stated my point clearly and if I haven't I apologize I'll try and do it better. I'm just shocked that exercising ones rights on a regular basis seems to some to be radical behavior. Have we really slipped that far down the slope?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,026 #113 December 13, 2006 QuoteIf rights are conditional as you suggest here, they aren't rights at all.Quote Do you even read my posts? I did indeed. Your statement on the exercise of your rights is that it is wise to refrain from doing so if the conditions aren't conducive. THAT is saying that they are not rights at all, but are conditional, (or to put it another way, privileges dependent on timing and the goodwill of the cop). Easy, really.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,026 #114 December 13, 2006 QuoteI did. To paraphrase, you suggested rights are conditional. Quote good god, is your last name really Kallend? obviously you didn't read my post or you would have realized that question wasn't even to you. . If a question is just for one person, you can PM it. You posted a question on an open forum, so it's fair game for anyone to answer.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #115 December 13, 2006 I'm just shocked that exercising ones rights on a regular basis seems to some to be radical behavior. Have we really slipped that far down the slope?Quote please don't feel that this is what I am trying to say, I don't consider exercising your rights to be radical behavior. Give me a few hours and I think I may be able to convey my point in a way you might like a bit better, and from looking at your replies and trying to understand where you are coming from I think you may even agree with me. But for now I'm in the middle of trying to get my wireless router back up and running so I keep unplugging the modem, and am about to take a break from that to head to the gym, so I'll wrap this one up in a few hours or possibly in the morning. Take careHistory does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Scoop 0 #116 December 13, 2006 Look up Betaris Box It explains perfectly, how psychologically a negative or aggressive attitude can escalate a situation. So stop being awkward and just be reasonable and maybe you'll find things go along much smoother from now on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #117 December 13, 2006 QuoteLook up Betaris Box It explains perfectly, how psychologically a negative or aggressive attitude can escalate a situation. So stop being awkward and just be reasonable and maybe you'll find things go along much smoother from now on. My point is, exercising one's rights should not be seen as negative or aggressive behavior. It should not escalate the situation at all.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CameraNewbie 0 #118 December 13, 2006 QuoteI'm reading this stuff and I'm wondering why he even said that if his profile says he lives in Jersey. Where you from miss thang? I was born and bred in NYC and I've lived here for over 37 years. I just moved to NJ less than 3 mos ago. If you would have read that I know Brownsville, Brooklyn, The South Bronx & South Queens you would have figured out I know the fucked up part of NYC. QuoteI don't know what papers you're reading but I have yet to hear of a gun INSIDE the car (how'd it get out? was it like in the old western movies when you hold up a gun and Clint Eastwood shoots it RIGHT out of your hand?) Read the papers Miss April Cat Diva. It said that the police officers said that they strongly believed that there was a gun in the car. I never said that there was one. The newspapers did. Hoy Ve! Forget all that noise. My main point is that why don't we trust the American Justice System and allow them to do their job. Wait till all the facts are presented in court and see what verdict the jury comes up with. We're not crime scene investigators that were at the scene. We're not eye witnessess that were at the scene. We're not cops that were at the scene. We're not victims that were at the scene. Ya feel me? Know I mean?What do protesters want? Dead cops! When do they want it? Every 2 weeks! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites aprilcat 0 #119 December 15, 2006 Ya feel me? Know I mean? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Please do not condescend to me and feel the need to have to speak 'ghetto' to me. I have an education and I am able to converse in English. If you feel there is some need to talk to me differently as you would any other poster on this forum it makes it easy to believe people are getting shot at in their cars because of skin color. Go back to your original post. You worked with people in the mailroom who have served time and 'heard from the horses mouth.....'..not every horse has the same experience. I personally don't care what neighborhood a person is from or in. It doesn't matter what crime someone in a car has served time for BEFORE (that the cops would have no way of knowing. What the hell good is it to release criminals if we continually criminalize them in our minds?) There isn't much a human can do that warrants over 50 shots into a car when there is no KNOWN crime committed. But if you insist on speaking 'ghetto' I'll sum it up like this: I ain't trying to hear the cops no mo'. Dis is bullshit, yo. *sigh* Make sense now?~~April edited: because I mispelled 'dis'. Camelot II, the Electric Boogaloo! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #120 December 15, 2006 ' I'll sum it up like this: I ain't trying to hear the cops no mo'. Dis is bullshit, yo. *sigh* Make sense now?~~April edited: because I mispelled 'dis'. Shame on you for dat shizzle WTF would I know about speaking "ghetto" NOT A FUCKING THING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #121 December 15, 2006 Quote' I'll sum it up like this: I ain't trying to hear the cops no mo'. Dis is bullshit, yo. *sigh* Make sense now?~~April edited: because I mispelled 'dis'. Shame on you for dat shizzle WTF would I know about speaking "ghetto" NOT A FUCKING THING let me ax you sumptin Since CameraNewbie also wrote "hoy vei" can I assume he also thinks April must be some kind of yiddish-ghetto-college grad with matching gear? (but at least nice avatar) ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #122 December 16, 2006 QuoteMiss April Cat Ya feel me? Know I mean?Diva ya know, i've been on the far opposite end of a debate with aprilcat a few times, but i've never spoken in such a disrespectful manner to her. hell, i'm pretty damn tipsy right now and i'm still able to speak to someone i don't care for without being an ass about it, if me of all people can pull it off while drunk, what's ur excuse??History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DaVinci 0 #123 December 19, 2006 QuoteI guess YOU would go all macho and pull out a gun.. and start shooting back... WHOA. I am so impressed. Not even close, YOU are the only one talking about how badass you are. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DaVinci 0 #124 December 19, 2006 QuoteIt would be that simple if there had been a weapon found. A vehicle is a weapon even if the SOP requires more. QuoteSomeone posted previously in this thread that SOP for NYPD is there must be another weapon besides the vehicle to justify deadly force. Just because the SOP is that it requires more than a car...does not mean that a car is not deadly force. QuoteBesides, it hasn't been shown that the three gentlemen who were shot were trying to run anyone over. There has been statements where the cops said they had to dodge to avoid being hit by the car, AND the suspects vehicle did hit an unmarked police car. Quote I haven't seen any evidence suggesting they knew the gunmen were cops, or that they intentionally tried to run any of the gunmen down. You don't need to prove they were cops. If a vehicle comes running at you, do you think that is a threat? QuoteSo far the evidence indicates the cops were in the wrong. I agree based on the "need more than a vehicle". However, you have to agree that if the suspect did run into an unmarked cop car and tried to hit a cop or two that the shoot, while not policy, is also not a crime. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #125 December 19, 2006 QuoteI guess YOU would go all macho and pull out a gun.. and start shooting back... WHOA. I am so impressed. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Not even close, YOU are the only one talking about how badass you are. I have stated what I would do.. that is to put distance using my car or truck in my case to put distance between me and the men with guns who are NOT identified as being police.. Even though I do carry ... AND I do have a CCP.... I would STILL try to put distance between them and me....THat my dear is not being BADDASS. THAT is being prudent in that situation. Now by all means PLEASE enlighten us all to what YOU would do.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next Page 5 of 8 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
jcd11235 0 #112 December 13, 2006 Quotegood god, is your last name really Kallend? obviously you didn't read my post or you would have realized that question wasn't even to you. Remember what I have said in many previous posts about people not listening? If people are constantly misunderstanding you, perhaps you should choose your words more carefully. And use the return key once in a while, for crying out loud. Quoteperfect example right here, this and your other post, I am making an attempt to see things from your side and understand where you are coming from, and to an extent I do, and even agree with certain parts of your take on this. You on the other hand seem to not take a second to understand the point I am trying to get across but rather simply look at the words on the screen and throw out a contradictory reply. I know of no other way to understand your thoughts than to just look at your words on the screen. If my reply seem contradictory, it is probably because I disagree with your post, and I'm bored. QuoteIt seems futile to continue to debate you, but I'm going to continue to try regardless, even if I can't change your mind maybe I can at least get you to stop and make an attempt to understand where I am coming from, maybe I just haven't stated my point clearly and if I haven't I apologize I'll try and do it better. I'm just shocked that exercising ones rights on a regular basis seems to some to be radical behavior. Have we really slipped that far down the slope?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,026 #113 December 13, 2006 QuoteIf rights are conditional as you suggest here, they aren't rights at all.Quote Do you even read my posts? I did indeed. Your statement on the exercise of your rights is that it is wise to refrain from doing so if the conditions aren't conducive. THAT is saying that they are not rights at all, but are conditional, (or to put it another way, privileges dependent on timing and the goodwill of the cop). Easy, really.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,026 #114 December 13, 2006 QuoteI did. To paraphrase, you suggested rights are conditional. Quote good god, is your last name really Kallend? obviously you didn't read my post or you would have realized that question wasn't even to you. . If a question is just for one person, you can PM it. You posted a question on an open forum, so it's fair game for anyone to answer.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #115 December 13, 2006 I'm just shocked that exercising ones rights on a regular basis seems to some to be radical behavior. Have we really slipped that far down the slope?Quote please don't feel that this is what I am trying to say, I don't consider exercising your rights to be radical behavior. Give me a few hours and I think I may be able to convey my point in a way you might like a bit better, and from looking at your replies and trying to understand where you are coming from I think you may even agree with me. But for now I'm in the middle of trying to get my wireless router back up and running so I keep unplugging the modem, and am about to take a break from that to head to the gym, so I'll wrap this one up in a few hours or possibly in the morning. Take careHistory does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Scoop 0 #116 December 13, 2006 Look up Betaris Box It explains perfectly, how psychologically a negative or aggressive attitude can escalate a situation. So stop being awkward and just be reasonable and maybe you'll find things go along much smoother from now on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #117 December 13, 2006 QuoteLook up Betaris Box It explains perfectly, how psychologically a negative or aggressive attitude can escalate a situation. So stop being awkward and just be reasonable and maybe you'll find things go along much smoother from now on. My point is, exercising one's rights should not be seen as negative or aggressive behavior. It should not escalate the situation at all.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CameraNewbie 0 #118 December 13, 2006 QuoteI'm reading this stuff and I'm wondering why he even said that if his profile says he lives in Jersey. Where you from miss thang? I was born and bred in NYC and I've lived here for over 37 years. I just moved to NJ less than 3 mos ago. If you would have read that I know Brownsville, Brooklyn, The South Bronx & South Queens you would have figured out I know the fucked up part of NYC. QuoteI don't know what papers you're reading but I have yet to hear of a gun INSIDE the car (how'd it get out? was it like in the old western movies when you hold up a gun and Clint Eastwood shoots it RIGHT out of your hand?) Read the papers Miss April Cat Diva. It said that the police officers said that they strongly believed that there was a gun in the car. I never said that there was one. The newspapers did. Hoy Ve! Forget all that noise. My main point is that why don't we trust the American Justice System and allow them to do their job. Wait till all the facts are presented in court and see what verdict the jury comes up with. We're not crime scene investigators that were at the scene. We're not eye witnessess that were at the scene. We're not cops that were at the scene. We're not victims that were at the scene. Ya feel me? Know I mean?What do protesters want? Dead cops! When do they want it? Every 2 weeks! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites aprilcat 0 #119 December 15, 2006 Ya feel me? Know I mean? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Please do not condescend to me and feel the need to have to speak 'ghetto' to me. I have an education and I am able to converse in English. If you feel there is some need to talk to me differently as you would any other poster on this forum it makes it easy to believe people are getting shot at in their cars because of skin color. Go back to your original post. You worked with people in the mailroom who have served time and 'heard from the horses mouth.....'..not every horse has the same experience. I personally don't care what neighborhood a person is from or in. It doesn't matter what crime someone in a car has served time for BEFORE (that the cops would have no way of knowing. What the hell good is it to release criminals if we continually criminalize them in our minds?) There isn't much a human can do that warrants over 50 shots into a car when there is no KNOWN crime committed. But if you insist on speaking 'ghetto' I'll sum it up like this: I ain't trying to hear the cops no mo'. Dis is bullshit, yo. *sigh* Make sense now?~~April edited: because I mispelled 'dis'. Camelot II, the Electric Boogaloo! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #120 December 15, 2006 ' I'll sum it up like this: I ain't trying to hear the cops no mo'. Dis is bullshit, yo. *sigh* Make sense now?~~April edited: because I mispelled 'dis'. Shame on you for dat shizzle WTF would I know about speaking "ghetto" NOT A FUCKING THING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #121 December 15, 2006 Quote' I'll sum it up like this: I ain't trying to hear the cops no mo'. Dis is bullshit, yo. *sigh* Make sense now?~~April edited: because I mispelled 'dis'. Shame on you for dat shizzle WTF would I know about speaking "ghetto" NOT A FUCKING THING let me ax you sumptin Since CameraNewbie also wrote "hoy vei" can I assume he also thinks April must be some kind of yiddish-ghetto-college grad with matching gear? (but at least nice avatar) ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #122 December 16, 2006 QuoteMiss April Cat Ya feel me? Know I mean?Diva ya know, i've been on the far opposite end of a debate with aprilcat a few times, but i've never spoken in such a disrespectful manner to her. hell, i'm pretty damn tipsy right now and i'm still able to speak to someone i don't care for without being an ass about it, if me of all people can pull it off while drunk, what's ur excuse??History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DaVinci 0 #123 December 19, 2006 QuoteI guess YOU would go all macho and pull out a gun.. and start shooting back... WHOA. I am so impressed. Not even close, YOU are the only one talking about how badass you are. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DaVinci 0 #124 December 19, 2006 QuoteIt would be that simple if there had been a weapon found. A vehicle is a weapon even if the SOP requires more. QuoteSomeone posted previously in this thread that SOP for NYPD is there must be another weapon besides the vehicle to justify deadly force. Just because the SOP is that it requires more than a car...does not mean that a car is not deadly force. QuoteBesides, it hasn't been shown that the three gentlemen who were shot were trying to run anyone over. There has been statements where the cops said they had to dodge to avoid being hit by the car, AND the suspects vehicle did hit an unmarked police car. Quote I haven't seen any evidence suggesting they knew the gunmen were cops, or that they intentionally tried to run any of the gunmen down. You don't need to prove they were cops. If a vehicle comes running at you, do you think that is a threat? QuoteSo far the evidence indicates the cops were in the wrong. I agree based on the "need more than a vehicle". However, you have to agree that if the suspect did run into an unmarked cop car and tried to hit a cop or two that the shoot, while not policy, is also not a crime. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #125 December 19, 2006 QuoteI guess YOU would go all macho and pull out a gun.. and start shooting back... WHOA. I am so impressed. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Not even close, YOU are the only one talking about how badass you are. I have stated what I would do.. that is to put distance using my car or truck in my case to put distance between me and the men with guns who are NOT identified as being police.. Even though I do carry ... AND I do have a CCP.... I would STILL try to put distance between them and me....THat my dear is not being BADDASS. THAT is being prudent in that situation. Now by all means PLEASE enlighten us all to what YOU would do.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next Page 5 of 8 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
kallend 2,026 #114 December 13, 2006 QuoteI did. To paraphrase, you suggested rights are conditional. Quote good god, is your last name really Kallend? obviously you didn't read my post or you would have realized that question wasn't even to you. . If a question is just for one person, you can PM it. You posted a question on an open forum, so it's fair game for anyone to answer.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #115 December 13, 2006 I'm just shocked that exercising ones rights on a regular basis seems to some to be radical behavior. Have we really slipped that far down the slope?Quote please don't feel that this is what I am trying to say, I don't consider exercising your rights to be radical behavior. Give me a few hours and I think I may be able to convey my point in a way you might like a bit better, and from looking at your replies and trying to understand where you are coming from I think you may even agree with me. But for now I'm in the middle of trying to get my wireless router back up and running so I keep unplugging the modem, and am about to take a break from that to head to the gym, so I'll wrap this one up in a few hours or possibly in the morning. Take careHistory does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Scoop 0 #116 December 13, 2006 Look up Betaris Box It explains perfectly, how psychologically a negative or aggressive attitude can escalate a situation. So stop being awkward and just be reasonable and maybe you'll find things go along much smoother from now on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #117 December 13, 2006 QuoteLook up Betaris Box It explains perfectly, how psychologically a negative or aggressive attitude can escalate a situation. So stop being awkward and just be reasonable and maybe you'll find things go along much smoother from now on. My point is, exercising one's rights should not be seen as negative or aggressive behavior. It should not escalate the situation at all.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CameraNewbie 0 #118 December 13, 2006 QuoteI'm reading this stuff and I'm wondering why he even said that if his profile says he lives in Jersey. Where you from miss thang? I was born and bred in NYC and I've lived here for over 37 years. I just moved to NJ less than 3 mos ago. If you would have read that I know Brownsville, Brooklyn, The South Bronx & South Queens you would have figured out I know the fucked up part of NYC. QuoteI don't know what papers you're reading but I have yet to hear of a gun INSIDE the car (how'd it get out? was it like in the old western movies when you hold up a gun and Clint Eastwood shoots it RIGHT out of your hand?) Read the papers Miss April Cat Diva. It said that the police officers said that they strongly believed that there was a gun in the car. I never said that there was one. The newspapers did. Hoy Ve! Forget all that noise. My main point is that why don't we trust the American Justice System and allow them to do their job. Wait till all the facts are presented in court and see what verdict the jury comes up with. We're not crime scene investigators that were at the scene. We're not eye witnessess that were at the scene. We're not cops that were at the scene. We're not victims that were at the scene. Ya feel me? Know I mean?What do protesters want? Dead cops! When do they want it? Every 2 weeks! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites aprilcat 0 #119 December 15, 2006 Ya feel me? Know I mean? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Please do not condescend to me and feel the need to have to speak 'ghetto' to me. I have an education and I am able to converse in English. If you feel there is some need to talk to me differently as you would any other poster on this forum it makes it easy to believe people are getting shot at in their cars because of skin color. Go back to your original post. You worked with people in the mailroom who have served time and 'heard from the horses mouth.....'..not every horse has the same experience. I personally don't care what neighborhood a person is from or in. It doesn't matter what crime someone in a car has served time for BEFORE (that the cops would have no way of knowing. What the hell good is it to release criminals if we continually criminalize them in our minds?) There isn't much a human can do that warrants over 50 shots into a car when there is no KNOWN crime committed. But if you insist on speaking 'ghetto' I'll sum it up like this: I ain't trying to hear the cops no mo'. Dis is bullshit, yo. *sigh* Make sense now?~~April edited: because I mispelled 'dis'. Camelot II, the Electric Boogaloo! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #120 December 15, 2006 ' I'll sum it up like this: I ain't trying to hear the cops no mo'. Dis is bullshit, yo. *sigh* Make sense now?~~April edited: because I mispelled 'dis'. Shame on you for dat shizzle WTF would I know about speaking "ghetto" NOT A FUCKING THING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #121 December 15, 2006 Quote' I'll sum it up like this: I ain't trying to hear the cops no mo'. Dis is bullshit, yo. *sigh* Make sense now?~~April edited: because I mispelled 'dis'. Shame on you for dat shizzle WTF would I know about speaking "ghetto" NOT A FUCKING THING let me ax you sumptin Since CameraNewbie also wrote "hoy vei" can I assume he also thinks April must be some kind of yiddish-ghetto-college grad with matching gear? (but at least nice avatar) ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GQ_jumper 4 #115 December 13, 2006 I'm just shocked that exercising ones rights on a regular basis seems to some to be radical behavior. Have we really slipped that far down the slope?Quote please don't feel that this is what I am trying to say, I don't consider exercising your rights to be radical behavior. Give me a few hours and I think I may be able to convey my point in a way you might like a bit better, and from looking at your replies and trying to understand where you are coming from I think you may even agree with me. But for now I'm in the middle of trying to get my wireless router back up and running so I keep unplugging the modem, and am about to take a break from that to head to the gym, so I'll wrap this one up in a few hours or possibly in the morning. Take careHistory does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Scoop 0 #116 December 13, 2006 Look up Betaris Box It explains perfectly, how psychologically a negative or aggressive attitude can escalate a situation. So stop being awkward and just be reasonable and maybe you'll find things go along much smoother from now on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #117 December 13, 2006 QuoteLook up Betaris Box It explains perfectly, how psychologically a negative or aggressive attitude can escalate a situation. So stop being awkward and just be reasonable and maybe you'll find things go along much smoother from now on. My point is, exercising one's rights should not be seen as negative or aggressive behavior. It should not escalate the situation at all.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CameraNewbie 0 #118 December 13, 2006 QuoteI'm reading this stuff and I'm wondering why he even said that if his profile says he lives in Jersey. Where you from miss thang? I was born and bred in NYC and I've lived here for over 37 years. I just moved to NJ less than 3 mos ago. If you would have read that I know Brownsville, Brooklyn, The South Bronx & South Queens you would have figured out I know the fucked up part of NYC. QuoteI don't know what papers you're reading but I have yet to hear of a gun INSIDE the car (how'd it get out? was it like in the old western movies when you hold up a gun and Clint Eastwood shoots it RIGHT out of your hand?) Read the papers Miss April Cat Diva. It said that the police officers said that they strongly believed that there was a gun in the car. I never said that there was one. The newspapers did. Hoy Ve! Forget all that noise. My main point is that why don't we trust the American Justice System and allow them to do their job. Wait till all the facts are presented in court and see what verdict the jury comes up with. We're not crime scene investigators that were at the scene. We're not eye witnessess that were at the scene. We're not cops that were at the scene. We're not victims that were at the scene. Ya feel me? Know I mean?What do protesters want? Dead cops! When do they want it? Every 2 weeks! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites aprilcat 0 #119 December 15, 2006 Ya feel me? Know I mean? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Please do not condescend to me and feel the need to have to speak 'ghetto' to me. I have an education and I am able to converse in English. If you feel there is some need to talk to me differently as you would any other poster on this forum it makes it easy to believe people are getting shot at in their cars because of skin color. Go back to your original post. You worked with people in the mailroom who have served time and 'heard from the horses mouth.....'..not every horse has the same experience. I personally don't care what neighborhood a person is from or in. It doesn't matter what crime someone in a car has served time for BEFORE (that the cops would have no way of knowing. What the hell good is it to release criminals if we continually criminalize them in our minds?) There isn't much a human can do that warrants over 50 shots into a car when there is no KNOWN crime committed. But if you insist on speaking 'ghetto' I'll sum it up like this: I ain't trying to hear the cops no mo'. Dis is bullshit, yo. *sigh* Make sense now?~~April edited: because I mispelled 'dis'. Camelot II, the Electric Boogaloo! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #120 December 15, 2006 ' I'll sum it up like this: I ain't trying to hear the cops no mo'. Dis is bullshit, yo. *sigh* Make sense now?~~April edited: because I mispelled 'dis'. Shame on you for dat shizzle WTF would I know about speaking "ghetto" NOT A FUCKING THING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scoop 0 #116 December 13, 2006 Look up Betaris Box It explains perfectly, how psychologically a negative or aggressive attitude can escalate a situation. So stop being awkward and just be reasonable and maybe you'll find things go along much smoother from now on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #117 December 13, 2006 QuoteLook up Betaris Box It explains perfectly, how psychologically a negative or aggressive attitude can escalate a situation. So stop being awkward and just be reasonable and maybe you'll find things go along much smoother from now on. My point is, exercising one's rights should not be seen as negative or aggressive behavior. It should not escalate the situation at all.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CameraNewbie 0 #118 December 13, 2006 QuoteI'm reading this stuff and I'm wondering why he even said that if his profile says he lives in Jersey. Where you from miss thang? I was born and bred in NYC and I've lived here for over 37 years. I just moved to NJ less than 3 mos ago. If you would have read that I know Brownsville, Brooklyn, The South Bronx & South Queens you would have figured out I know the fucked up part of NYC. QuoteI don't know what papers you're reading but I have yet to hear of a gun INSIDE the car (how'd it get out? was it like in the old western movies when you hold up a gun and Clint Eastwood shoots it RIGHT out of your hand?) Read the papers Miss April Cat Diva. It said that the police officers said that they strongly believed that there was a gun in the car. I never said that there was one. The newspapers did. Hoy Ve! Forget all that noise. My main point is that why don't we trust the American Justice System and allow them to do their job. Wait till all the facts are presented in court and see what verdict the jury comes up with. We're not crime scene investigators that were at the scene. We're not eye witnessess that were at the scene. We're not cops that were at the scene. We're not victims that were at the scene. Ya feel me? Know I mean?What do protesters want? Dead cops! When do they want it? Every 2 weeks! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aprilcat 0 #119 December 15, 2006 Ya feel me? Know I mean? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Please do not condescend to me and feel the need to have to speak 'ghetto' to me. I have an education and I am able to converse in English. If you feel there is some need to talk to me differently as you would any other poster on this forum it makes it easy to believe people are getting shot at in their cars because of skin color. Go back to your original post. You worked with people in the mailroom who have served time and 'heard from the horses mouth.....'..not every horse has the same experience. I personally don't care what neighborhood a person is from or in. It doesn't matter what crime someone in a car has served time for BEFORE (that the cops would have no way of knowing. What the hell good is it to release criminals if we continually criminalize them in our minds?) There isn't much a human can do that warrants over 50 shots into a car when there is no KNOWN crime committed. But if you insist on speaking 'ghetto' I'll sum it up like this: I ain't trying to hear the cops no mo'. Dis is bullshit, yo. *sigh* Make sense now?~~April edited: because I mispelled 'dis'. Camelot II, the Electric Boogaloo! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #120 December 15, 2006 ' I'll sum it up like this: I ain't trying to hear the cops no mo'. Dis is bullshit, yo. *sigh* Make sense now?~~April edited: because I mispelled 'dis'. Shame on you for dat shizzle WTF would I know about speaking "ghetto" NOT A FUCKING THING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #121 December 15, 2006 Quote' I'll sum it up like this: I ain't trying to hear the cops no mo'. Dis is bullshit, yo. *sigh* Make sense now?~~April edited: because I mispelled 'dis'. Shame on you for dat shizzle WTF would I know about speaking "ghetto" NOT A FUCKING THING let me ax you sumptin Since CameraNewbie also wrote "hoy vei" can I assume he also thinks April must be some kind of yiddish-ghetto-college grad with matching gear? (but at least nice avatar) ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GQ_jumper 4 #122 December 16, 2006 QuoteMiss April Cat Ya feel me? Know I mean?Diva ya know, i've been on the far opposite end of a debate with aprilcat a few times, but i've never spoken in such a disrespectful manner to her. hell, i'm pretty damn tipsy right now and i'm still able to speak to someone i don't care for without being an ass about it, if me of all people can pull it off while drunk, what's ur excuse??History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #123 December 19, 2006 QuoteI guess YOU would go all macho and pull out a gun.. and start shooting back... WHOA. I am so impressed. Not even close, YOU are the only one talking about how badass you are. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #124 December 19, 2006 QuoteIt would be that simple if there had been a weapon found. A vehicle is a weapon even if the SOP requires more. QuoteSomeone posted previously in this thread that SOP for NYPD is there must be another weapon besides the vehicle to justify deadly force. Just because the SOP is that it requires more than a car...does not mean that a car is not deadly force. QuoteBesides, it hasn't been shown that the three gentlemen who were shot were trying to run anyone over. There has been statements where the cops said they had to dodge to avoid being hit by the car, AND the suspects vehicle did hit an unmarked police car. Quote I haven't seen any evidence suggesting they knew the gunmen were cops, or that they intentionally tried to run any of the gunmen down. You don't need to prove they were cops. If a vehicle comes running at you, do you think that is a threat? QuoteSo far the evidence indicates the cops were in the wrong. I agree based on the "need more than a vehicle". However, you have to agree that if the suspect did run into an unmarked cop car and tried to hit a cop or two that the shoot, while not policy, is also not a crime. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #125 December 19, 2006 QuoteI guess YOU would go all macho and pull out a gun.. and start shooting back... WHOA. I am so impressed. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Not even close, YOU are the only one talking about how badass you are. I have stated what I would do.. that is to put distance using my car or truck in my case to put distance between me and the men with guns who are NOT identified as being police.. Even though I do carry ... AND I do have a CCP.... I would STILL try to put distance between them and me....THat my dear is not being BADDASS. THAT is being prudent in that situation. Now by all means PLEASE enlighten us all to what YOU would do.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
