Royd 0 #26 November 27, 2006 QuoteGiven that In Chrstian belief god created us and our nature maybe he set the standard too high if everyone falls short?That's why people are graduating from high school without being able to read. Let's just dumb it all down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #27 November 27, 2006 Quotereligion and morality ...have nothing to do with each other in the real world. There are good people and bad people of all faiths (and none). Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freethefly 6 #28 November 27, 2006 QuoteQuoteAs an aside to Paj - the hotel that hosts the British Parachute Ass'n AGM (and pissup) has a 10 foot high statue of Poseidon in their foyer. Is that one of the ten most immoral things they could do? Only if it represents what they worship above God. Is it an idol or just a statue? 3. You shall have no other gods before Me. So this god hates all other gods? 4. You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; Seems that ALL churches are on the hell bound train considering the number of statues and such. 5. you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, Seems god operates solely on emotion and not rational thought. 6. but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments. Free thought not allowed."...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #29 November 27, 2006 QuoteQuoteGod is a "He"? You're joking, right? If God is everywhere, don't you think it transcends gender? God makes much more sense as a verb, rather than a noun. God has revealed Himself in three ways: In creation, in the Bible, and in Jesus (Rom. 1:18-20; 1 Cor. 15:3; John 5:39; Acts 10:43; Heb. 1:1-3; John 14:9). Jesus was a man. God does transcend gender. However, that's the reason we refer to him in the masculine. The Old Testament refers to God in the masculine gender, and it was written prior to the life of Jesus, and thus the custom of referring to God in the masculine pre-dates Jesus. You raise an interesting hypothetical, though: if Jesus had been a female, would Christians refer to God in the feminine? I suggest "no", because - to Jesus - God is referred to as the father. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #30 November 27, 2006 QuoteQuoteGiven that In Chrstian belief god created us and our nature maybe he set the standard too high if everyone falls short? Perhaps "The Designer" just did a rotten job. Like "The Decider?" Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #31 November 28, 2006 Quotehave nothing to do with each other in the real world. There are good people and bad people of all faiths (and none). I know of more than one "good Christian" who goes to church every sunday.. gets absolution for their sins.. then goes out the door to strat screwing over people as soon as they can... nearly a total lack of anything most of us would call morals. the whole "christians are not perfect.. they are forgiven".. leads to some very screwed up sinful people who will stab you in the back in a heartbeat... yet.. they are right there in church asking for forgiveness on Sundy morning... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #32 November 28, 2006 There are also bad atheists, bad Muslims, bad Jews and bad Hindus. On the opposite end of the spectrum, all of those groups (including Christians) also have some very kind, moral people among their numbers. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #33 November 28, 2006 QuoteThe Old Testament refers to God in the masculine gender, and it was written prior to the life of Jesus, and thus the custom of referring to God in the masculine pre-dates Jesus. You raise an interesting hypothetical, though: if Jesus had been a female, would Christians refer to God in the feminine? I suggest "no", because - to Jesus - God is referred to as the father. I don't know about the whole Jesus as a woman thing. Seems like a silly thing to consider really since it just wasn't that way. However, I agree with your Old Testament assessment. I stand corrected. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #34 November 28, 2006 Quote3. You shall have no other gods before Me. So this god hates all other gods? 4. You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; Seems that ALL churches are on the hell bound train considering the number of statues and such. 5. you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, Seems god operates solely on emotion and not rational thought. 6. but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments. Free thought not allowed. Your assessment above is grossly misunderstood. You are going to die one day and will have to face a completely holy & just God who will judge you for every thought & deed during your life. How will you account for your own lawlessness. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nathaniel 0 #35 November 28, 2006 Quote You shall have no other gods before Me. I've always wondered about this bit. Because in Genesis all old Mighty has to do is pronounce something for it to exist. So it seems that He or She all of a sudden creates other gods at once in order to belittle them. Or is god not omnipotent in that god cannot create other gods... hmm... The least Christians could do is acknowledge their god's actions, and thus recognize other gods, even if they do not worship them.My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #36 November 28, 2006 It goes directly to who were the OTHER people outside of Adam and Eve and their 2 sons.... Many of those OTHERS were of the older ( than the people of the bible) goddess religions that were all around the biblical people who were doing all the begatting thruout the early books of the bible. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #37 November 28, 2006 QuoteQuote3. You shall have no other gods before Me. So this god hates all other gods? 4. You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; Seems that ALL churches are on the hell bound train considering the number of statues and such. 5. you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, Seems god operates solely on emotion and not rational thought. 6. but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments. Free thought not allowed. Your assessment above is grossly misunderstood. So the Bible is not to be taken at face value when it disagrees with Christian dogma, but is otherwise the revealed word of God?? Quote You are going to die one day and will have to face a completely holy & just God who will judge you for every thought & deed during your life. How will you account for your own lawlessness. You have absolutely zero, nil, none, zip, nix, and no evidence whatsoever to support that statement.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
br0k3n 0 #38 November 28, 2006 Hey Paj, Just a small query I have about this Jesus fella. I recently read John E. Remsburg, The Christ: A Critical Review and Analysis of the Evidence of His Existence , in this he lists the following writers who lived during the time, or within a century after the time, that Jesus is supposed to have lived: Josephus Philo-Judæus Seneca Pliny Elder Arrian Petronius Dion Pruseus Paterculus Suetonius Juvenal Martial Persius Plutarch Pliny Younger Tacitus Justus of Tiberius Apollonius Quintilian Lucanus Epictetus Hermogones Silius Italicus Statius Ptolemy Appian Phlegon Phædrus Valerius Maximus Lucian Pausanias Florus Lucius Quintius Curtius Aulus Gellius Dio Chrysostom Columella Valerius Flaccus Damis Favorinus Lysias Pomponius Mela Appion of Alexandria Theon of Smyrna According to Remsburg, "Enough of the writings of the authors named in the foregoing list remains to form a library. Yet in this mass of literature there is to be found no mention of Jesus Christ." nor do any of these authors make note of the Disciples or Apostles. Why would this be????----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #39 November 28, 2006 because they were all heathens that didn't know shit jesus is the only one we should listen to oh and god too coz then life is worth dying for see! why did god create the other gods to confuse people again? he made everything right? I thought jelousy is an evil emotion? why is god allwed to be jelous?"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
philh 0 #40 November 28, 2006 How do you know god is just? Because he or his followers told you? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vpozzoli 0 #41 November 28, 2006 QuoteWait ... are you trying to say that God isn't an elderly white man with flowing white hair and beard ... blasphemy. You must be thinking of Bill Booth. He's brilliant, but I don't think he thinks of himself in such terms Vale Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #42 November 28, 2006 Quote3. You shall have no other gods before Me. So this god hates all other gods? The Ten Commandments were given to the Jews. Every culture had idols to which they bowed and offered sacrifices. These were nothing more than statues, inanimate objects, which had no power. They were giving the attributes of God to nothing more than a piece of stone. Basically, they were no different than those who say," If you can't see it, touch it, or feel it, it doesn't exist." The Bible says that no man can see God, and live. Assuming for a moment that a single force could create everything in existance, and this force revealed itself in physical form, other than human form, I doubt if there would be a single human who wouldn't be paralysed by fear. After all, we see people who have debilitating fear over such things as spiders, snakes, fish,etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #43 November 28, 2006 QuoteQuote You shall have no other gods before Me. I've always wondered about this bit. Because in Genesis all old Mighty has to do is pronounce something for it to exist. So it seems that He or She all of a sudden creates other gods at once in order to belittle them. Or is god not omnipotent in that god cannot create other gods... hmm... The least Christians could do is acknowledge their god's actions, and thus recognize other gods, even if they do not worship them. There is only one God (Mk. 12:32, Mk. 12:29, 1 Tim. 2:5, 1 Cor. 8:4, Gal. 3:20, James 2:19, Ps. 86:10, Deut. 6:4,5, Isa. 44:8, Isa. 45:21, Isa. 45:22, Isa. 46:9, Isa. 45:5, Isa. 45:18, Mal. 2:10) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #44 November 28, 2006 Let us pretend that your God and Bible are real. How do you consider your God to be moral when there is a story in your Bible about your God drowning almost all the men, women, and children (and all other creatures) on Earth?"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,493 #45 November 28, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuote You shall have no other gods before Me. I've always wondered about this bit. Because in Genesis all old Mighty has to do is pronounce something for it to exist. So it seems that He or She all of a sudden creates other gods at once in order to belittle them. Or is god not omnipotent in that god cannot create other gods... hmm... The least Christians could do is acknowledge their god's actions, and thus recognize other gods, even if they do not worship them. There is only one God (Mk. 12:32, Mk. 12:29, 1 Tim. 2:5, 1 Cor. 8:4, Gal. 3:20, James 2:19, Ps. 86:10, Deut. 6:4,5, Isa. 44:8, Isa. 45:21, Isa. 45:22, Isa. 46:9, Isa. 45:5, Isa. 45:18, Mal. 2:10) Simple quantity of repetition has no bearing on the truth of a statement.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #46 November 28, 2006 QuoteLet us pretend that your God and Bible are real. How do you consider your God to be moral when there is a story in your Bible about your God drowning almost all the men, women, and children (and all other creatures) on Earth? You might say that he was cleaning up the moral gene pool. Noah spent 120 yr. building a huge boat and it had never rained upon the earth. There was plenty of time to get one's act together. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #47 November 28, 2006 QuoteQuoteLet us pretend that your God and Bible are real. How do you consider your God to be moral when there is a story in your Bible about your God drowning almost all the men, women, and children (and all other creatures) on Earth? You might say that he was cleaning up the moral gene pool. Noah spent 120 yr. building a huge boat and it had never rained upon the earth. There was plenty of time to get one's act together. Was Adolph Hitler, Joseph Stalin, or ... also cleaning up the moral gene pool?"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #48 November 28, 2006 So the Bible is not to be taken at face value when it disagrees with Christian dogma, but is otherwise the revealed word of God??Quote 1. You shall have no other gods before me. This command prohibited polytheism that characterized all the religions of the ancient Near East. Israel was not to worship or call on any of the gods of other nations, but was commanded to fear the one and only true God and serve him alone. We are to love him with all of our heart, mind, soul, and strength to much that our love for our parents, kids, friends, even our own lives should seem like hatred by comparison. 2. You shall not make to yourself any graven image. The prohibition against the worship of other gods required that no image be made of them, nor could anyone make an image of the Lord God himself. He is too great to be represented by anything made by human hands. God warns that idolaters will not inherit the kingdom of God. 3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. This is misusing God’s name including making a false promise by it, pronouncing it insincerely or thoughtlessly, or cursing and blaspheming. God’s name must be hallowed, honored and respected as profoundly sacred, and it may be used only in a holy manner. God promises that he will not hold anyone blameless who takes his name in vain. 4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. The OT Sabbath was the seventh day of the week. To keep that day holy meant setting it apart as different from other days by ceasing one’s labor in order to rest, serve God and concentrate on the things concerning eternity, spiritual life and God’s honor. 5. Honor your father and your mother. This includes all necessary acts of kindness, material support, respect and obedience to one’s parents. It prohibits unkind words and injurious acts. There is a reciprocal duty of the father and mother to love their children and teach them the fear of the Lord and the ways of God. 6. You shall not kill. This forbids willful murder or the unlawful taking of life. Jesus said that if you merely call your brother a fool, you are in danger of judgment, and the Bible says if you’ve ever hated anyone, you are a murderer in God’s eyes. God does not simply judge actions. He knows the intentions of the heart. He sees your thought life. Every improper thought or deed done in secret is seen and recorded and will be used as evidence against you. 7. You shall not commit adultery. This prohibits adultery which encompasses immorality and all sexual sins. Jesus said whoever looks upon a woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her already in his heart. Again, he sees your thought life. 8. You shall not steal. This prohibits the stealing of money or anything belonging to another. Cheating is also a form of stealing. This commandment demands honesty in all our dealings with people. It includes things you might have taken when you were younger. It includes stuff you might have taken from work rationalizing with yourself that they won’t miss it. 9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. This protects the name and reputation of other persons. No one may make false statements about anyone’s character or actions. We must speak about all people in a fair and just manner. 10. You shall not covet. This prohibits the desire or lust for what belongs to another person. It reveals a lack of gratitude for what God has already given you. QuoteYou are going to die one day and will have to face a completely holy & just God who will judge you for every thought & deed during your life. How will you account for your own lawlessness? You have absolutely zero, nil, none, zip, nix, and no evidence whatsoever to support that statement. QuoteIt is appointed to men once to die, but after this the judgment. Hebrews 9:27 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,493 #49 November 28, 2006 QuoteNoah spent 120 yr. building a huge boat and it had never rained upon the earth. There was plenty of time to get one's act together. Lol! No he didn't.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #50 November 28, 2006 QuoteHey Paj, Just a small query I have about this Jesus fella. I recently read John E. Remsburg, The Christ: A Critical Review and Analysis of the Evidence of His Existence , in this he lists the following writers who lived during the time, or within a century after the time, that Jesus is supposed to have lived: According to Remsburg, "Enough of the writings of the authors named in the foregoing list remains to form a library. Yet in this mass of literature there is to be found no mention of Jesus Christ." nor do any of these authors make note of the Disciples or Apostles. Why would this be???? “About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man [if indeed one ought to call him a man.] For he was one who wrought surprising feats and was a teacher of such people as accept the truth gladly. He won over many Jews and many of the Greeks. [He was the Christ.] When Pilate, upon hearing him accused by men of the highest standing amongst us, had condemned him to be crucified, those who had in the first place come to love him did not give up their affection for him. [On the third day he appeared to them restored to life, for the prophets of God had prophesied these and countless other marvelous things about him.] And the tribe of the Christians, so called after him, has still to this day not disappeared.” --Josephus Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
