steveorino 7 #351 December 23, 2006 QuoteWhat about Jesus in the wilderness talking to the devil. Was that a dream too? The devil didn't actually take Jesus to the top of a mountain and show him all the kingdoms of the world? Actually, the word used there was "haarets" and often is interpreted as the kingdom of Judea. Which could have been seen or represented from a high mountain. At that time the kingdom of Judea was divided into three parts (for Herod's three sons) I believe Satan was tempting JC that he could unite Judea into one nation again. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackC 0 #352 December 23, 2006 Yep, no matter how rediculous or incomprehensible the passage is, there's always an excuse. God sure needs a lot of excuses. I'll pass. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #353 December 23, 2006 QuoteYep, no matter how rediculous or incomprehensible the passage is, there's always an excuse. God sure needs a lot of excuses. I'll pass. You'll pass because you have no clue how to exegete scripture. It doesn't make a difference if you are an atheist fundy or a christian fundy. You have only one way to read a passage. What a pity! What a waste! steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackC 0 #354 December 23, 2006 QuoteYou'll pass because you have no clue how to exegete scripture. It doesn't make a difference if you are an atheist fundy or a christian fundy. You have only one way to read a passage. What a pity! What a waste! Why do I have to "exegete" scripture? Why is there a special way of reading and interpreting the Bible that's different from reading say Time magazine? What is so special about the Bible that means I can't just take the words to mean what they say? But the bible isn't like that, there is always context this or translation that or it's a parable or an alegory or something. Even after 2000 years of study by thousands of people, still there's no agreement. Like it or not, the Bible is contradictory, incoherent, ambiguous, poorly written and has some pretty dubious morals in it. I don't see why anyone would waste their time with it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #355 December 23, 2006 QuoteQuoteYou'll pass because you have no clue how to exegete scripture. It doesn't make a difference if you are an atheist fundy or a christian fundy. You have only one way to read a passage. What a pity! What a waste! Why do I have to "exegete" scripture? Why is there a special way of reading and interpreting the Bible that's different from reading say Time magazine? What is so special about the Bible that means I can't just take the words to mean what they say? But the bible isn't like that, there is always context this or translation that or it's a parable or an alegory or something. Even after 2000 years of study by thousands of people, still there's no agreement. Like it or not, the Bible is contradictory, incoherent, ambiguous, poorly written and has some pretty dubious morals in it. I don't see why anyone would waste their time with it. Well, unfortunate for some it doesn't read like a first grade primary book. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackC 0 #356 December 23, 2006 QuoteWell, unfortunate for some it doesn't read like a first grade primary book. No but it reads like it was written by a first grader. Seriously, I've got books on quantum field theory that are easier to understand. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #357 December 23, 2006 QuoteQuoteWell, unfortunate for some it doesn't read like a first grade primary book. No but it reads like it was written by a first grader. You obviously have not studied literature. Even if you don't accept the Bible as true, it is full of beautiful poetry, allegories, and other writings. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spudboy 0 #358 December 23, 2006 that is an interesting statement, yet many people are not OK with the concept of creating laws out of that beautiful poetry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #359 December 23, 2006 Quotethat is an interesting statement, yet many people are not OK with the concept of creating laws out of that beautiful poetry What statement? What laws are created on biblical poetry? I never said it all is poetry. I simply said it is sad, some are such fundamental atheist they can only interpret scripture one way ... literally. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #360 December 23, 2006 Quote Even if you don't accept the Bible as true, it is full of beautiful poetry, allegories, and other writings. I have heard it referred to as the Hewbrew Book of Fables. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spudboy 0 #361 December 23, 2006 why is it sad that someone interprets what they have read as being just that? What frightens many atheists is the fact that in the last decade many lawmakers have attempted to create laws based upon their interpretations of the Bible. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #362 December 23, 2006 it is one thing to believe The Bible is true or not but is an entirely different stance to go ahead and say its a silly book, poorly written and the like... first, The Bible, more than any other book, is the most influential book of all time, it has sold more copies than any other book written... now does that say it's true, it's right? of course not, to be sure... but it is definately a book worth reading and taking in if only for it's tremendous impact... i mean, more than anything written by man this book has been translated, read, and studied and quoted.. some of the most intellegent persons have read this book cover to cover ( even athiests ) and respected it's overwhelming contribution to society and law, even for it's poetry and allegories... steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackC 0 #363 December 23, 2006 So is Henry V and it's a much, much better story. Even as entertainment the Bible isn't much cop. All that death and destruction in the OT and then God gets all hippified in the second installment. He should have used a continuity advisor, it's a schoolboy error. Knocking out a universe doesn't seem to be a problem, you'd think a coherent storyline would be walk in the park by comparison. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #364 December 23, 2006 QuoteEven as entertainment the Bible isn't much cop. HEY now.. dont forget all the "begatting" in the OT....seems to be a theme there Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #365 December 23, 2006 Quotefirst, The Bible, more than any other book, is the most influential book of all time, it has sold more copies than any other book written... now does that say it's true, it's right? of course not, to be sure... but it is definately a book worth reading and taking in if only for it's tremendous impact... i mean, more than anything else written by man this book has been translated, read, and studied and quoted.. some of the most intellegent persons have read this book cover to cover ( even athiests ) and respected it's overwhelming contribution to society and law, even for it's poetry and allegories... I could kind of live with that, but there are many other influential books... but the Bible has been around for a while, so its' impact will be proportionately higher. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #366 December 23, 2006 QuoteWhat frightens many atheists is the fact that in the last decade many lawmakers have attempted to create laws based upon their interpretations of the Bible. I never knew atheists were the scaredy cat type. The atheists I ran with are not that easily intimidated. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackC 0 #367 December 23, 2006 Quoteit is one thing to believe The Bible is true or not but is an entirely different stance to go ahead and say its a silly book, poorly written and the like... first, The Bible, more than any other book, is the most influential book of all time, it has sold more copies than any other book written... now does that say it's true, it's right? of course not, to be sure... but it is definately a book worth reading and taking in if only for it's tremendous impact... i mean, more than anything written by man this book has been translated, read, and studied and quoted.. some of the most intellegent persons have read this book cover to cover ( even athiests ) and respected it's overwhelming contribution to society and law, even for it's poetry and allegories... If it was well written everyone would agree on what it means but they don't, even if it is the most read book of all time. Just because a book is popular and influencial doesn't mean it's actually good. Popularity usually has more to do with marketing than quality. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #368 December 23, 2006 QuoteIf it was well written everyone would agree on what it means Is the US Constitution well written? steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #369 December 23, 2006 QuoteIf it was well written everyone would agree on what it means but they don't, even if it is the most read book of all time. Just because a book is popular and influencial doesn't mean it's actually good. Popularity usually has more to do with marketing than quality. Some would consider Edgar Allen Poe a good writer. Sometimes I find myself saying,"What the hell is he talking about." but I keep reading, and enjoy it for what it's worth. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #370 December 23, 2006 QuoteQuoteIf it was well written everyone would agree on what it means Is the US Constitution well written? Not particularly. There are several misspelled words, and some of the language has become ambiguous as it grows more dated. Nonetheless, it serves its purpose and is very influential in that sense.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #371 December 23, 2006 "Not particularly?" You're joking, right? Is that from a view of it in US history, or your own personal bias? steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #372 December 23, 2006 Quote "Not particularly?" You're joking, right? Is that from a view of it in US history, or your own personal bias? Nope. I'm not joking, nor commenting on the ideals expressed within the document. However, looked at strictly from it's quality as a piece of professional writing, it's not exceptional. It's a nice rough draft, but wouldn't get a very good grade if turned in as a final draft. I will concede that the standards may have been raised a bit with the advent of the backspace/delete key. Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #373 December 23, 2006 Your purposely side stepping my analogy, so I'll be a little more direct. Whether or not people all agree on how something is interpreted doesn't make it good or bad. Literature is just that way, whether it is an ancient law, a book of morals or governing document. The Bible, like the US Constitution, is open to interpretation and misinterpretation. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #374 December 23, 2006 QuoteYour purposely side stepping my analogy I'm not sidestepping anything. You asked if the Constitution was well written, and I gave my opinion, and explained why I held that opinion.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #375 December 23, 2006 QuoteIf it was well written everyone would agree on what it means but they don't, even if it is the most read book of all time. What all do you apply that principle to? All literature, scripture? music? TV shows? Movies? steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
