GQ_jumper 4 #26 December 11, 2006 It is the judicial system's place to judge, not the police officers'. Quote So they should have to ask for permission from a judge before they can open fire? Because you know that will happen quick. My point was that if I had the choice between someone who had put me in danger, and a dog who could be credited with attempting to save me my loyalty goes to the dog. Animal or not it's still a teammate and teammates come first, I'm not saying let the person just bleed out if you can save them, but if you can only save one......I don't know how much truth there is to it but I have heard that you can defend your dog as if they are a member of your family, I know I would, I pray for the soul of the man who would ever lay a hand on my baby in a harmful manner, it wouldn't be pretty. Let me add that I haven't gotten to watch the video yet nor have I read to closely into this situation, I'm just taking what info I can pul from the posts on here thus far.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #27 December 11, 2006 QuoteSo they should have to ask for permission from a judge before they can open fire? Because you know that will happen quick. My point was that if I had the choice between someone who had put me in danger, and a dog who could be credited with attempting to save me my loyalty goes to the dog. Animal or not it's still a teammate and teammates come first, I'm not saying let the person just bleed out if you can save them, but if you can only save one......I don't know how much truth there is to it but I have heard that you can defend your dog as if they are a member of your family, I know I would, I pray for the soul of the man who would ever lay a hand on my baby in a harmful manner, it wouldn't be pretty. Let me add that I haven't gotten to watch the video yet nor have I read to closely into this situation, I'm just taking what info I can pul from the posts on here thus far. I think they should have waited for the suspect to show a weapon before firing. I watched the video, and their was no visual sign of a weapon before or after the cops killed the guy. However, my previous comment was in regards to who gets the medical treatment first. The person should get treatment first, even if he beat his pregnant girlfriend. I can understand the handler going to his dog first, but the rest of the cops also screwed up by not immediately treating the suspect after he was down.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kbordson 8 #28 December 11, 2006 QuoteI think they should have waited for the suspect to show a weapon before firing. I watched the video, and their was no visual sign of a weapon before or after the cops killed the guy. You don't know that he didn't pull a weapon. It doesn't show one from this camera angle, but we can't see the whole story. Just one perspective of it. I was once shown a set of two different views of the same situation... surprising what a difference that can make. You can't assume that you are seeing what all the cops saw. And FOR THE RECORD... I wasn't saying that cuz he beat his gf that he didn't deserve medical care... I was saying that he wasn't innocent and his actions started this chain of events that led to the conclusion... the dog however was an innocent beast that should have been better controlled or kept from harm. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #29 December 11, 2006 I can understand the handler going to his dog first, but the rest of the cops also screwed up by not immediately treating the suspect after he was down. Quote the dog was a teammate to all the officers, not just the handler. I understand your position and you have a very viable argument, my reason for saying what I do, I work in a team environment, I trust the men I work with to watch my back in some pretty bad shit, my teammates come before anyone else which is why I am all for treating the one who had your back before treating the one who if given the opportunity probably would have put a bullet in it.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Richards 0 #30 December 11, 2006 QuoteYeah...I guess that's ONE way of interpeting it! I quote "he instructed other officers "Don't let this man move. He's trying to bleed out on us. He's trying to kill himself."" Quotebut if you honestly believe police don't DO that sort of thing, What I meant was I suspect that there was some hyperbole in the statement that he was left out overnight to bleed to death. It can happen, but leaving a living breathing man out all night until dawn to die would be career suicide. THe statement must have been exagerated. My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 7 #31 December 11, 2006 I quote "he instructed other officers "Don't let this man move. He's trying to bleed out on us. He's trying to kill himself." Quote I wasn't there, but somehow I doubt that version...call me a pessimist... What I meant was I suspect that there was some hyperbole in the statement that he was left out overnight to bleed to death. It can happen, but leaving a living breathing man out all night until dawn to die would be career suicide. THe statement must have been exagerated. QuotePoint taken. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Richards 0 #32 December 11, 2006 QuoteQuoteUhh...am I the only one here who is thinking "fuck the dog"? Probably. QuoteJesus-Fucking-Christ, there is a warning to dog lovers that the video shows a dog being shot. I thought it was sad. Sorry but I felt that people who were dog lovers might be upset by it. Quote(Apparently by individuals whose motive may have been that the dog had a better chance for promotion...based on intelligence testing.) PA? QuoteThat a person is shot and killed...well, apparently that is mild viewing. He beat his pregnant wife, and brandished a gun towards the officers. He was aware of the consequences of his actions. When a man is holding a gun and surrounded by cops with guns pointed at him yelling "drop the gun" ...well if he cannot figure out the implied "or else" then I am not going to bleed my heart out for this particular Darwin nominee. As always I feel sympathy for his mother, but with respect to his girlfriend they probably did her (and the unborn child) a favour. The dog was an innocent. He did nothing wrong but spend his whole life in the service of people, and was gunned down doing it. My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Richards 0 #33 December 11, 2006 QuoteI think they should have waited for the suspect to show a weapon before firing. I watched the video, and their was no visual sign of a weapon before or after the cops killed the guy. Watch the video again. You see the gun fly from his hand as they start shooting him. QuoteHowever, my previous comment was in regards to who gets the medical treatment first. Definitely the pooch. My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Richards 0 #34 December 11, 2006 QuoteBut like I said, I like animals better than people. No hypocracy in animals. If you have a dog it truly is your best freind. My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #35 December 11, 2006 QuoteQuoteI think they should have waited for the suspect to show a weapon before firing. I watched the video, and their was no visual sign of a weapon before or after the cops killed the guy. You don't know that he didn't pull a weapon. It doesn't show one from this camera angle, but we can't see the whole story. Just one perspective of it. I was once shown a set of two different views of the same situation... surprising what a difference that can make. You can't assume that you are seeing what all the cops saw. And FOR THE RECORD... I wasn't saying that cuz he beat his gf that he didn't deserve medical care... I was saying that he wasn't innocent and his actions started this chain of events that led to the conclusion... the dog however was an innocent beast that should have been better controlled or kept from harm. I think one of the cops asked [I]if[/I] there was a gun near the end of the video. I'm well aware that perspective is everything, but the perspective of the camera does not change the fact that the dog received medical attention before the human. That's not the way it works in civilized societies.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #36 December 11, 2006 I'm well aware that perspective is everything, but the perspective of the camera does not change the fact that the dog received medical attention before the human. That's not the way it works in civilized societies. Quote And what exactly is the order of precedence when it comes to medical attention in civilized society. I'm assuming you would agree with something along the lines of women and children first, then men, then any other creature(family pet, police dog, etc.).History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #37 December 11, 2006 QuoteAnd what exactly is the order of precedence when it comes to medical attention in civilized society. People before canines.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #38 December 11, 2006 People before canines.Quote under every circumstance? come onHistory does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites akarunway 1 #39 December 11, 2006 QuoteI just can't get over the fact that in the introduction to a video in which a human being is shot to death, this fact is treated as an afterthought. Quote the man was beating his girlfriend, he should be considered one of the lowest forms of life on Earth, and deserved a death. the dog, serving the public, hold his actions on high and do everything you can to save him.So the cops get to be judge, jury and executers all in a matter of minutes. What the fuck is wrong w/ this picture? I'm a stupid motherfucker BUT ME THINKS the cops could have found a rather simple(maybe drawnout)solution to end this standoff w/o the perp or the dog being killed. Trigger happy cops IMHOI hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites akarunway 1 #40 December 11, 2006 "The dog was an innocent. He did nothing wrong but spend his whole life in the service of people, and was gunned down doing it."> Yeah buy a barrage of bullets from his trigger happy compadres. Stupid copsI hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #41 December 11, 2006 please note that I never once commented on whether or not the cops should or should not have opened fire, as I said I don't know the details on this particular incident, I am saying that in my mind, my teammates life takes precedence over a criminal.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Scoop 0 #42 December 11, 2006 The dog is innocent in all events it will encounter in its role as a police dog. Does that mean it should never be subject to any duty? Dog handlers get close to their dogs but at the same time they have to be able to let go and remember that their dog is a tool. Everytime a dog is released to pursue or detain someone it could suffer serious injury. If you were not realistic in that approach and never let go of your dog you'd be a pretty ineffective dog handler. I must admit, if its a true account I fail to see why 81 shots were fired but if there was a number of officers there and they all felt fear for their safety and reacted instinctively to a threat I suppose it could be understood. Take it they arent trained to do neat double taps and reassess the subject? I know in the UK the armed police have been criticised as gun ho and reckless by military trainers in the past. Wonder if its a general worldwide thing that police lack professionalism in these sorts of incidents Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Scoop 0 #43 December 11, 2006 Quotemy teammates life takes precedence over a criminal. Definately Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #44 December 11, 2006 Quotebut the rest of the cops also screwed up by not immediately treating the suspect after he was down. cops != paramedics, and the paramedics ORDINARILY are not called on-scene until it is cleared.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #45 December 11, 2006 QuoteQuoteBut like I said, I like animals better than people. No hypocracy in animals. If you have a dog it truly is your best freind. You know it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #46 December 11, 2006 I'm well aware that perspective is everything, but the perspective of the camera does not change the fact that the dog received medical attention before the human. That's not the way it works in civilized societies. If I shoot someone they don't need no stinking medical attention, they should die. That dog did nothing but obey his masters, I wish the dog was unhurt. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Skyrad 0 #47 December 11, 2006 I wonder why they chose that moment to open fire? He didn't move his weapon until he was hit by the force of multiple round strikes. All in all a very weird incident.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Richards 0 #48 December 11, 2006 Quote Yeah buy a barrage of bullets from his trigger happy compadres. Stupid cops No question, it seemed a bit excessive, but then I was not there. My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Richards 0 #49 December 11, 2006 QuoteQuoteI wonder why they chose that moment to open fire? He didn't move his weapon until he was hit by the force of multiple round strikes. All in all a very weird incident. It would be interesting to see the inquiry. My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Tonto 1 #50 December 11, 2006 At 30 seconds into the video the suspect suddenly throws something with his right hand down at about 30 degrees towards the police. Right or wrong, in a tense standoff - an event like that is highly likely to trigger a negative response. Our reflex and response is about 0.2 of a second, and that move seems to have prompted the same response from multiple officers. "Think fast - move slow" The faster they move, the less likely it is that the response will be the correct one. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 2 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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jcd11235 0 #27 December 11, 2006 QuoteSo they should have to ask for permission from a judge before they can open fire? Because you know that will happen quick. My point was that if I had the choice between someone who had put me in danger, and a dog who could be credited with attempting to save me my loyalty goes to the dog. Animal or not it's still a teammate and teammates come first, I'm not saying let the person just bleed out if you can save them, but if you can only save one......I don't know how much truth there is to it but I have heard that you can defend your dog as if they are a member of your family, I know I would, I pray for the soul of the man who would ever lay a hand on my baby in a harmful manner, it wouldn't be pretty. Let me add that I haven't gotten to watch the video yet nor have I read to closely into this situation, I'm just taking what info I can pul from the posts on here thus far. I think they should have waited for the suspect to show a weapon before firing. I watched the video, and their was no visual sign of a weapon before or after the cops killed the guy. However, my previous comment was in regards to who gets the medical treatment first. The person should get treatment first, even if he beat his pregnant girlfriend. I can understand the handler going to his dog first, but the rest of the cops also screwed up by not immediately treating the suspect after he was down.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kbordson 8 #28 December 11, 2006 QuoteI think they should have waited for the suspect to show a weapon before firing. I watched the video, and their was no visual sign of a weapon before or after the cops killed the guy. You don't know that he didn't pull a weapon. It doesn't show one from this camera angle, but we can't see the whole story. Just one perspective of it. I was once shown a set of two different views of the same situation... surprising what a difference that can make. You can't assume that you are seeing what all the cops saw. And FOR THE RECORD... I wasn't saying that cuz he beat his gf that he didn't deserve medical care... I was saying that he wasn't innocent and his actions started this chain of events that led to the conclusion... the dog however was an innocent beast that should have been better controlled or kept from harm. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GQ_jumper 4 #29 December 11, 2006 I can understand the handler going to his dog first, but the rest of the cops also screwed up by not immediately treating the suspect after he was down. Quote the dog was a teammate to all the officers, not just the handler. I understand your position and you have a very viable argument, my reason for saying what I do, I work in a team environment, I trust the men I work with to watch my back in some pretty bad shit, my teammates come before anyone else which is why I am all for treating the one who had your back before treating the one who if given the opportunity probably would have put a bullet in it.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Richards 0 #30 December 11, 2006 QuoteYeah...I guess that's ONE way of interpeting it! I quote "he instructed other officers "Don't let this man move. He's trying to bleed out on us. He's trying to kill himself."" Quotebut if you honestly believe police don't DO that sort of thing, What I meant was I suspect that there was some hyperbole in the statement that he was left out overnight to bleed to death. It can happen, but leaving a living breathing man out all night until dawn to die would be career suicide. THe statement must have been exagerated. My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 7 #31 December 11, 2006 I quote "he instructed other officers "Don't let this man move. He's trying to bleed out on us. He's trying to kill himself." Quote I wasn't there, but somehow I doubt that version...call me a pessimist... What I meant was I suspect that there was some hyperbole in the statement that he was left out overnight to bleed to death. It can happen, but leaving a living breathing man out all night until dawn to die would be career suicide. THe statement must have been exagerated. QuotePoint taken. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Richards 0 #32 December 11, 2006 QuoteQuoteUhh...am I the only one here who is thinking "fuck the dog"? Probably. QuoteJesus-Fucking-Christ, there is a warning to dog lovers that the video shows a dog being shot. I thought it was sad. Sorry but I felt that people who were dog lovers might be upset by it. Quote(Apparently by individuals whose motive may have been that the dog had a better chance for promotion...based on intelligence testing.) PA? QuoteThat a person is shot and killed...well, apparently that is mild viewing. He beat his pregnant wife, and brandished a gun towards the officers. He was aware of the consequences of his actions. When a man is holding a gun and surrounded by cops with guns pointed at him yelling "drop the gun" ...well if he cannot figure out the implied "or else" then I am not going to bleed my heart out for this particular Darwin nominee. As always I feel sympathy for his mother, but with respect to his girlfriend they probably did her (and the unborn child) a favour. The dog was an innocent. He did nothing wrong but spend his whole life in the service of people, and was gunned down doing it. My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Richards 0 #33 December 11, 2006 QuoteI think they should have waited for the suspect to show a weapon before firing. I watched the video, and their was no visual sign of a weapon before or after the cops killed the guy. Watch the video again. You see the gun fly from his hand as they start shooting him. QuoteHowever, my previous comment was in regards to who gets the medical treatment first. Definitely the pooch. My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Richards 0 #34 December 11, 2006 QuoteBut like I said, I like animals better than people. No hypocracy in animals. If you have a dog it truly is your best freind. My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #35 December 11, 2006 QuoteQuoteI think they should have waited for the suspect to show a weapon before firing. I watched the video, and their was no visual sign of a weapon before or after the cops killed the guy. You don't know that he didn't pull a weapon. It doesn't show one from this camera angle, but we can't see the whole story. Just one perspective of it. I was once shown a set of two different views of the same situation... surprising what a difference that can make. You can't assume that you are seeing what all the cops saw. And FOR THE RECORD... I wasn't saying that cuz he beat his gf that he didn't deserve medical care... I was saying that he wasn't innocent and his actions started this chain of events that led to the conclusion... the dog however was an innocent beast that should have been better controlled or kept from harm. I think one of the cops asked [I]if[/I] there was a gun near the end of the video. I'm well aware that perspective is everything, but the perspective of the camera does not change the fact that the dog received medical attention before the human. That's not the way it works in civilized societies.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #36 December 11, 2006 I'm well aware that perspective is everything, but the perspective of the camera does not change the fact that the dog received medical attention before the human. That's not the way it works in civilized societies. Quote And what exactly is the order of precedence when it comes to medical attention in civilized society. I'm assuming you would agree with something along the lines of women and children first, then men, then any other creature(family pet, police dog, etc.).History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #37 December 11, 2006 QuoteAnd what exactly is the order of precedence when it comes to medical attention in civilized society. People before canines.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #38 December 11, 2006 People before canines.Quote under every circumstance? come onHistory does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites akarunway 1 #39 December 11, 2006 QuoteI just can't get over the fact that in the introduction to a video in which a human being is shot to death, this fact is treated as an afterthought. Quote the man was beating his girlfriend, he should be considered one of the lowest forms of life on Earth, and deserved a death. the dog, serving the public, hold his actions on high and do everything you can to save him.So the cops get to be judge, jury and executers all in a matter of minutes. What the fuck is wrong w/ this picture? I'm a stupid motherfucker BUT ME THINKS the cops could have found a rather simple(maybe drawnout)solution to end this standoff w/o the perp or the dog being killed. Trigger happy cops IMHOI hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites akarunway 1 #40 December 11, 2006 "The dog was an innocent. He did nothing wrong but spend his whole life in the service of people, and was gunned down doing it."> Yeah buy a barrage of bullets from his trigger happy compadres. Stupid copsI hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #41 December 11, 2006 please note that I never once commented on whether or not the cops should or should not have opened fire, as I said I don't know the details on this particular incident, I am saying that in my mind, my teammates life takes precedence over a criminal.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Scoop 0 #42 December 11, 2006 The dog is innocent in all events it will encounter in its role as a police dog. Does that mean it should never be subject to any duty? Dog handlers get close to their dogs but at the same time they have to be able to let go and remember that their dog is a tool. Everytime a dog is released to pursue or detain someone it could suffer serious injury. If you were not realistic in that approach and never let go of your dog you'd be a pretty ineffective dog handler. I must admit, if its a true account I fail to see why 81 shots were fired but if there was a number of officers there and they all felt fear for their safety and reacted instinctively to a threat I suppose it could be understood. Take it they arent trained to do neat double taps and reassess the subject? I know in the UK the armed police have been criticised as gun ho and reckless by military trainers in the past. Wonder if its a general worldwide thing that police lack professionalism in these sorts of incidents Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Scoop 0 #43 December 11, 2006 Quotemy teammates life takes precedence over a criminal. Definately Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #44 December 11, 2006 Quotebut the rest of the cops also screwed up by not immediately treating the suspect after he was down. cops != paramedics, and the paramedics ORDINARILY are not called on-scene until it is cleared.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #45 December 11, 2006 QuoteQuoteBut like I said, I like animals better than people. No hypocracy in animals. If you have a dog it truly is your best freind. You know it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #46 December 11, 2006 I'm well aware that perspective is everything, but the perspective of the camera does not change the fact that the dog received medical attention before the human. That's not the way it works in civilized societies. If I shoot someone they don't need no stinking medical attention, they should die. That dog did nothing but obey his masters, I wish the dog was unhurt. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Skyrad 0 #47 December 11, 2006 I wonder why they chose that moment to open fire? He didn't move his weapon until he was hit by the force of multiple round strikes. All in all a very weird incident.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Richards 0 #48 December 11, 2006 Quote Yeah buy a barrage of bullets from his trigger happy compadres. Stupid cops No question, it seemed a bit excessive, but then I was not there. My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Richards 0 #49 December 11, 2006 QuoteQuoteI wonder why they chose that moment to open fire? He didn't move his weapon until he was hit by the force of multiple round strikes. All in all a very weird incident. It would be interesting to see the inquiry. My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Tonto 1 #50 December 11, 2006 At 30 seconds into the video the suspect suddenly throws something with his right hand down at about 30 degrees towards the police. Right or wrong, in a tense standoff - an event like that is highly likely to trigger a negative response. Our reflex and response is about 0.2 of a second, and that move seems to have prompted the same response from multiple officers. "Think fast - move slow" The faster they move, the less likely it is that the response will be the correct one. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 2 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
Richards 0 #30 December 11, 2006 QuoteYeah...I guess that's ONE way of interpeting it! I quote "he instructed other officers "Don't let this man move. He's trying to bleed out on us. He's trying to kill himself."" Quotebut if you honestly believe police don't DO that sort of thing, What I meant was I suspect that there was some hyperbole in the statement that he was left out overnight to bleed to death. It can happen, but leaving a living breathing man out all night until dawn to die would be career suicide. THe statement must have been exagerated. My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #31 December 11, 2006 I quote "he instructed other officers "Don't let this man move. He's trying to bleed out on us. He's trying to kill himself." Quote I wasn't there, but somehow I doubt that version...call me a pessimist... What I meant was I suspect that there was some hyperbole in the statement that he was left out overnight to bleed to death. It can happen, but leaving a living breathing man out all night until dawn to die would be career suicide. THe statement must have been exagerated. QuotePoint taken. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richards 0 #32 December 11, 2006 QuoteQuoteUhh...am I the only one here who is thinking "fuck the dog"? Probably. QuoteJesus-Fucking-Christ, there is a warning to dog lovers that the video shows a dog being shot. I thought it was sad. Sorry but I felt that people who were dog lovers might be upset by it. Quote(Apparently by individuals whose motive may have been that the dog had a better chance for promotion...based on intelligence testing.) PA? QuoteThat a person is shot and killed...well, apparently that is mild viewing. He beat his pregnant wife, and brandished a gun towards the officers. He was aware of the consequences of his actions. When a man is holding a gun and surrounded by cops with guns pointed at him yelling "drop the gun" ...well if he cannot figure out the implied "or else" then I am not going to bleed my heart out for this particular Darwin nominee. As always I feel sympathy for his mother, but with respect to his girlfriend they probably did her (and the unborn child) a favour. The dog was an innocent. He did nothing wrong but spend his whole life in the service of people, and was gunned down doing it. My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Richards 0 #33 December 11, 2006 QuoteI think they should have waited for the suspect to show a weapon before firing. I watched the video, and their was no visual sign of a weapon before or after the cops killed the guy. Watch the video again. You see the gun fly from his hand as they start shooting him. QuoteHowever, my previous comment was in regards to who gets the medical treatment first. Definitely the pooch. My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Richards 0 #34 December 11, 2006 QuoteBut like I said, I like animals better than people. No hypocracy in animals. If you have a dog it truly is your best freind. My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richards 0 #33 December 11, 2006 QuoteI think they should have waited for the suspect to show a weapon before firing. I watched the video, and their was no visual sign of a weapon before or after the cops killed the guy. Watch the video again. You see the gun fly from his hand as they start shooting him. QuoteHowever, my previous comment was in regards to who gets the medical treatment first. Definitely the pooch. My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richards 0 #34 December 11, 2006 QuoteBut like I said, I like animals better than people. No hypocracy in animals. If you have a dog it truly is your best freind. My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #35 December 11, 2006 QuoteQuoteI think they should have waited for the suspect to show a weapon before firing. I watched the video, and their was no visual sign of a weapon before or after the cops killed the guy. You don't know that he didn't pull a weapon. It doesn't show one from this camera angle, but we can't see the whole story. Just one perspective of it. I was once shown a set of two different views of the same situation... surprising what a difference that can make. You can't assume that you are seeing what all the cops saw. And FOR THE RECORD... I wasn't saying that cuz he beat his gf that he didn't deserve medical care... I was saying that he wasn't innocent and his actions started this chain of events that led to the conclusion... the dog however was an innocent beast that should have been better controlled or kept from harm. I think one of the cops asked [I]if[/I] there was a gun near the end of the video. I'm well aware that perspective is everything, but the perspective of the camera does not change the fact that the dog received medical attention before the human. That's not the way it works in civilized societies.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GQ_jumper 4 #36 December 11, 2006 I'm well aware that perspective is everything, but the perspective of the camera does not change the fact that the dog received medical attention before the human. That's not the way it works in civilized societies. Quote And what exactly is the order of precedence when it comes to medical attention in civilized society. I'm assuming you would agree with something along the lines of women and children first, then men, then any other creature(family pet, police dog, etc.).History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #37 December 11, 2006 QuoteAnd what exactly is the order of precedence when it comes to medical attention in civilized society. People before canines.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #38 December 11, 2006 People before canines.Quote under every circumstance? come onHistory does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites akarunway 1 #39 December 11, 2006 QuoteI just can't get over the fact that in the introduction to a video in which a human being is shot to death, this fact is treated as an afterthought. Quote the man was beating his girlfriend, he should be considered one of the lowest forms of life on Earth, and deserved a death. the dog, serving the public, hold his actions on high and do everything you can to save him.So the cops get to be judge, jury and executers all in a matter of minutes. What the fuck is wrong w/ this picture? I'm a stupid motherfucker BUT ME THINKS the cops could have found a rather simple(maybe drawnout)solution to end this standoff w/o the perp or the dog being killed. Trigger happy cops IMHOI hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites akarunway 1 #40 December 11, 2006 "The dog was an innocent. He did nothing wrong but spend his whole life in the service of people, and was gunned down doing it."> Yeah buy a barrage of bullets from his trigger happy compadres. Stupid copsI hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #41 December 11, 2006 please note that I never once commented on whether or not the cops should or should not have opened fire, as I said I don't know the details on this particular incident, I am saying that in my mind, my teammates life takes precedence over a criminal.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Scoop 0 #42 December 11, 2006 The dog is innocent in all events it will encounter in its role as a police dog. Does that mean it should never be subject to any duty? Dog handlers get close to their dogs but at the same time they have to be able to let go and remember that their dog is a tool. Everytime a dog is released to pursue or detain someone it could suffer serious injury. If you were not realistic in that approach and never let go of your dog you'd be a pretty ineffective dog handler. I must admit, if its a true account I fail to see why 81 shots were fired but if there was a number of officers there and they all felt fear for their safety and reacted instinctively to a threat I suppose it could be understood. Take it they arent trained to do neat double taps and reassess the subject? I know in the UK the armed police have been criticised as gun ho and reckless by military trainers in the past. Wonder if its a general worldwide thing that police lack professionalism in these sorts of incidents Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Scoop 0 #43 December 11, 2006 Quotemy teammates life takes precedence over a criminal. Definately Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #44 December 11, 2006 Quotebut the rest of the cops also screwed up by not immediately treating the suspect after he was down. cops != paramedics, and the paramedics ORDINARILY are not called on-scene until it is cleared.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #45 December 11, 2006 QuoteQuoteBut like I said, I like animals better than people. No hypocracy in animals. If you have a dog it truly is your best freind. You know it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #46 December 11, 2006 I'm well aware that perspective is everything, but the perspective of the camera does not change the fact that the dog received medical attention before the human. That's not the way it works in civilized societies. If I shoot someone they don't need no stinking medical attention, they should die. That dog did nothing but obey his masters, I wish the dog was unhurt. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Skyrad 0 #47 December 11, 2006 I wonder why they chose that moment to open fire? He didn't move his weapon until he was hit by the force of multiple round strikes. All in all a very weird incident.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Richards 0 #48 December 11, 2006 Quote Yeah buy a barrage of bullets from his trigger happy compadres. Stupid cops No question, it seemed a bit excessive, but then I was not there. My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #37 December 11, 2006 QuoteAnd what exactly is the order of precedence when it comes to medical attention in civilized society. People before canines.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GQ_jumper 4 #38 December 11, 2006 People before canines.Quote under every circumstance? come onHistory does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites akarunway 1 #39 December 11, 2006 QuoteI just can't get over the fact that in the introduction to a video in which a human being is shot to death, this fact is treated as an afterthought. Quote the man was beating his girlfriend, he should be considered one of the lowest forms of life on Earth, and deserved a death. the dog, serving the public, hold his actions on high and do everything you can to save him.So the cops get to be judge, jury and executers all in a matter of minutes. What the fuck is wrong w/ this picture? I'm a stupid motherfucker BUT ME THINKS the cops could have found a rather simple(maybe drawnout)solution to end this standoff w/o the perp or the dog being killed. Trigger happy cops IMHOI hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites akarunway 1 #40 December 11, 2006 "The dog was an innocent. He did nothing wrong but spend his whole life in the service of people, and was gunned down doing it."> Yeah buy a barrage of bullets from his trigger happy compadres. Stupid copsI hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #41 December 11, 2006 please note that I never once commented on whether or not the cops should or should not have opened fire, as I said I don't know the details on this particular incident, I am saying that in my mind, my teammates life takes precedence over a criminal.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Scoop 0 #42 December 11, 2006 The dog is innocent in all events it will encounter in its role as a police dog. Does that mean it should never be subject to any duty? Dog handlers get close to their dogs but at the same time they have to be able to let go and remember that their dog is a tool. Everytime a dog is released to pursue or detain someone it could suffer serious injury. If you were not realistic in that approach and never let go of your dog you'd be a pretty ineffective dog handler. I must admit, if its a true account I fail to see why 81 shots were fired but if there was a number of officers there and they all felt fear for their safety and reacted instinctively to a threat I suppose it could be understood. Take it they arent trained to do neat double taps and reassess the subject? I know in the UK the armed police have been criticised as gun ho and reckless by military trainers in the past. Wonder if its a general worldwide thing that police lack professionalism in these sorts of incidents Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Scoop 0 #43 December 11, 2006 Quotemy teammates life takes precedence over a criminal. Definately Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #44 December 11, 2006 Quotebut the rest of the cops also screwed up by not immediately treating the suspect after he was down. cops != paramedics, and the paramedics ORDINARILY are not called on-scene until it is cleared.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #45 December 11, 2006 QuoteQuoteBut like I said, I like animals better than people. No hypocracy in animals. If you have a dog it truly is your best freind. You know it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #46 December 11, 2006 I'm well aware that perspective is everything, but the perspective of the camera does not change the fact that the dog received medical attention before the human. That's not the way it works in civilized societies. If I shoot someone they don't need no stinking medical attention, they should die. That dog did nothing but obey his masters, I wish the dog was unhurt. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
akarunway 1 #39 December 11, 2006 QuoteI just can't get over the fact that in the introduction to a video in which a human being is shot to death, this fact is treated as an afterthought. Quote the man was beating his girlfriend, he should be considered one of the lowest forms of life on Earth, and deserved a death. the dog, serving the public, hold his actions on high and do everything you can to save him.So the cops get to be judge, jury and executers all in a matter of minutes. What the fuck is wrong w/ this picture? I'm a stupid motherfucker BUT ME THINKS the cops could have found a rather simple(maybe drawnout)solution to end this standoff w/o the perp or the dog being killed. Trigger happy cops IMHOI hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites akarunway 1 #40 December 11, 2006 "The dog was an innocent. He did nothing wrong but spend his whole life in the service of people, and was gunned down doing it."> Yeah buy a barrage of bullets from his trigger happy compadres. Stupid copsI hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #41 December 11, 2006 please note that I never once commented on whether or not the cops should or should not have opened fire, as I said I don't know the details on this particular incident, I am saying that in my mind, my teammates life takes precedence over a criminal.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Scoop 0 #42 December 11, 2006 The dog is innocent in all events it will encounter in its role as a police dog. Does that mean it should never be subject to any duty? Dog handlers get close to their dogs but at the same time they have to be able to let go and remember that their dog is a tool. Everytime a dog is released to pursue or detain someone it could suffer serious injury. If you were not realistic in that approach and never let go of your dog you'd be a pretty ineffective dog handler. I must admit, if its a true account I fail to see why 81 shots were fired but if there was a number of officers there and they all felt fear for their safety and reacted instinctively to a threat I suppose it could be understood. Take it they arent trained to do neat double taps and reassess the subject? I know in the UK the armed police have been criticised as gun ho and reckless by military trainers in the past. Wonder if its a general worldwide thing that police lack professionalism in these sorts of incidents Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Scoop 0 #43 December 11, 2006 Quotemy teammates life takes precedence over a criminal. Definately Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #44 December 11, 2006 Quotebut the rest of the cops also screwed up by not immediately treating the suspect after he was down. cops != paramedics, and the paramedics ORDINARILY are not called on-scene until it is cleared.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #45 December 11, 2006 QuoteQuoteBut like I said, I like animals better than people. No hypocracy in animals. If you have a dog it truly is your best freind. You know it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
akarunway 1 #40 December 11, 2006 "The dog was an innocent. He did nothing wrong but spend his whole life in the service of people, and was gunned down doing it."> Yeah buy a barrage of bullets from his trigger happy compadres. Stupid copsI hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GQ_jumper 4 #41 December 11, 2006 please note that I never once commented on whether or not the cops should or should not have opened fire, as I said I don't know the details on this particular incident, I am saying that in my mind, my teammates life takes precedence over a criminal.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scoop 0 #42 December 11, 2006 The dog is innocent in all events it will encounter in its role as a police dog. Does that mean it should never be subject to any duty? Dog handlers get close to their dogs but at the same time they have to be able to let go and remember that their dog is a tool. Everytime a dog is released to pursue or detain someone it could suffer serious injury. If you were not realistic in that approach and never let go of your dog you'd be a pretty ineffective dog handler. I must admit, if its a true account I fail to see why 81 shots were fired but if there was a number of officers there and they all felt fear for their safety and reacted instinctively to a threat I suppose it could be understood. Take it they arent trained to do neat double taps and reassess the subject? I know in the UK the armed police have been criticised as gun ho and reckless by military trainers in the past. Wonder if its a general worldwide thing that police lack professionalism in these sorts of incidents Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scoop 0 #43 December 11, 2006 Quotemy teammates life takes precedence over a criminal. Definately Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #44 December 11, 2006 Quotebut the rest of the cops also screwed up by not immediately treating the suspect after he was down. cops != paramedics, and the paramedics ORDINARILY are not called on-scene until it is cleared.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #45 December 11, 2006 QuoteQuoteBut like I said, I like animals better than people. No hypocracy in animals. If you have a dog it truly is your best freind. You know it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #46 December 11, 2006 I'm well aware that perspective is everything, but the perspective of the camera does not change the fact that the dog received medical attention before the human. That's not the way it works in civilized societies. If I shoot someone they don't need no stinking medical attention, they should die. That dog did nothing but obey his masters, I wish the dog was unhurt. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #47 December 11, 2006 I wonder why they chose that moment to open fire? He didn't move his weapon until he was hit by the force of multiple round strikes. All in all a very weird incident.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richards 0 #48 December 11, 2006 Quote Yeah buy a barrage of bullets from his trigger happy compadres. Stupid cops No question, it seemed a bit excessive, but then I was not there. My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richards 0 #49 December 11, 2006 QuoteQuoteI wonder why they chose that moment to open fire? He didn't move his weapon until he was hit by the force of multiple round strikes. All in all a very weird incident. It would be interesting to see the inquiry. My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #50 December 11, 2006 At 30 seconds into the video the suspect suddenly throws something with his right hand down at about 30 degrees towards the police. Right or wrong, in a tense standoff - an event like that is highly likely to trigger a negative response. Our reflex and response is about 0.2 of a second, and that move seems to have prompted the same response from multiple officers. "Think fast - move slow" The faster they move, the less likely it is that the response will be the correct one. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
