Evolution - Satan's biggest brilliant and magnificent plan !!

[jcd11235 0]

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You can demonstrate evolution in a lab, and even observe it in the wild. But you can still argue until the cows come home and neither side will change their positions.

You might have something there if it could be shown in the lab that random chance and natural selection could lead to the type of large scale evolutionary change you're referring to.

Have you ever had a Statistics class? Given the size of the universe, even the things that only have a 0.000000001% chance of occurring will happen many times.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[wmw999 2,452]

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very eloquent, articulate, intelligent, and inspired who wrote with a purpose other than trying to convey a fairytale

Absolutely. But the science they had did not have nearly as many discoveries behind it as the science that we have.

It's easy to say that science is wrong, but it's that same science, observing things, using trial and error to disprove what you think you see, refining, that has helped to bring us things like immunizations, pasteurization, the notion that cleanliness can help healing and prevent disease, electric lights in our houses, and a whole lot of other things, big and small.

Remember that ignorance is not the same as stupidity; no one is accusing the writers of the Bible (most of whom were likely very cultured and well-educated people) of being stupid. But they hadn't invented the Chevy Impala convertible yet.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[shropshire 0]

<>

Got a few 100s of Million years of lab time?

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[wmw999 2,452]

Splitting evolution into "micro evolution" and "macro evolution" is a brilliant tactic, because we're unlikely to ever be able to show a hummingbird "evolving" into a platypus.

Among other things, evolution doesn't have a target for the format of the critters/plants that are being evolved. That's key -- there is no target; it's all about the process of surviving, and whatever happens to survive best is the result.

It's kind of like when some artists paint; they toss stuff at the canvas, and then whatever comes out is what they intended all along.

And that's a key problem for the serious believers in Genesis, because the format of current animals is pretty clearly laid out as having been thought of in their current state. Genesis doesn't lay out a process which moves on its own, it lays out "how we got here," with here being the target, and everything else being less-than-perfect.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[jakee 1,498]

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That's not what I meant by that. The insinuation above was that they were a bunch of primitive dolts who didn't know any better. The evidence does not show that. I wasn't getting into the issue of credibility. However, their inteligence does add to that.

They could have had higher IQs than Einstein, Newton or Hawking - they were still primitive.

Have you ever studied the writing of Homer? I had a lecturer who was doing an entire PhD on the linguistic structure of a handful of verses! That does not make it any more likely that Achilles was the son of God. Homer and the authors of the Old Testament very likely have three things in common. 1) They were committing to paper a generations old oral tradition. 2) They believed the stories they were telling. 3) There is no evidence to show the stories are true.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,498]

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The Bible does not go into details about how he did it.

What came first, the earth or the sun? That is a detail, the bible has it wrong. In your analogy I would say they constructed the pipework and then hung the bricks off it.

What special value does the bible have as a book of spiritual truth when it has been written by men? You admit their physics is wrong, you must admit much of their morality is wrong, when it comes to matters purely of god and the soul are we to believe it is suddenly right?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[shropshire 0]

I'm with you.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[SpeedRacer 1]

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The Bible does not go into details about how he did it.

What came first, the earth or the sun? That is a detail, the bible has it wrong. In your analogy I would say they constructed the pipework and then hung the bricks off it.

What special value does the bible have as a book of spiritual truth when it has been written by men? You admit their physics is wrong, you must admit much of their morality is wrong, when it comes to matters purely of god and the soul are we to believe it is suddenly right?

yep.

Speed Racer
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[jakee 1,498]

Why?

Unless god did dictate that part of the bible when he only inspired the other parts, how is that information any more reliable?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[wmw999 2,452]

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Unless god did dictate that part of the bible when he only inspired the other parts, how is that information any more reliable?

My point of view is that we as humans have changed a whole lot less emotionally, spiritually, and morally, than our understanding of the physical world has changed since then. So there is great worth in listening to that.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[SpeedRacer 1]

A Chilton's manual contains accurate information for car repair, but it doesn't tell you how to bake a casserole.

What physical mechanisms took place during Creation are not important for the Bible. What is important is that God created everything in the universe. The physical mechanisms that took place during the process are not important to the focus of the Bible. Matters of the soul & one's relationship with God ARE important to the focus of the Bible.

Speed Racer
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[billvon 2,998]

>However, regardless of whether they've got pointed or floppy ears...
>they're still just foxes.

Flying foxes (australia) have wings, and they fly about. Are they still just foxes?

Some squirrels in the US are evolving wings so they can glide from tree to tree. They may still perhaps be "just squirrels" but they are their own species, and have evolved a whole new structure (a wing) from what they already had (skin.) Which is how evolution works.

Rodents in Africa (Anomaluridae) are evolving wings in a slightly different way - they use a simple cartilaginous rod to extend their wings, so the flight membrane can connect at the elbow instead of the hands/feet (thus giving them more mobility.) In a million years, that rod may well be a piece of bone that allows them to glide very long distances, gain altitude and retract their wings when not in use. In a very real way, they will still be "just rats" - but these rats will fly.

[ExAFO 0]

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>However, regardless of whether they've got pointed or floppy ears...
>they're still just foxes.

Flying foxes (australia) have wings, and they fly about. Are they still just foxes?

Some squirrels in the US are evolving wings so they can glide from tree to tree. They may still perhaps be "just squirrels" but they are their own species, and have evolved a whole new structure (a wing) from what they already had (skin.) Which is how evolution works.

Rodents in Africa (Anomaluridae) are evolving wings in a slightly different way - they use a simple cartilaginous rod to extend their wings, so the flight membrane can connect at the elbow instead of the hands/feet (thus giving them more mobility.) In a million years, that rod may well be a piece of bone that allows them to glide very long distances, gain altitude and retract their wings when not in use. In a very real way, they will still be "just rats" - but these rats will fly.

Mice have feet.

Cats also have feet. Coincidence?

Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.

[jakee 1,498]

You're both sidestepping the point.

Wendy, you say we have changed less morally and spiritually. We have changed a lot morally since the bible was written. There is a lot in there that we discard based on modern morality. Was the 'good' stuff in the bible divinely inspired and the 'bad' stuff not?

Speedracer,

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Matters of the soul & one's relationship with God ARE important to the focus of the Bible.

Then why isn't that all there is? If God was able to dictate the purely spiritual passages of the bible why did he allow the waters to be muddied with physical and moral mistakes inserted by man in the other sections? He would have known that they would be taken as literal truth for over two millenia (given a pre 500BC date for the OT) so why allow them to be so mistaken?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[billvon 2,998]

>Mice have feet. Cats also have feet. Coincidence?

I think not! Chairs have feet too. Therefore chairs = Satan.

[ExAFO 0]

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>Mice have feet. Cats also have feet. Coincidence?

I think not! Chairs have feet too. Therefore chairs = Satan.

Cassowaries also have feet, but they do have a large fingernail growing out of their heads...what is the logical conclusion?

Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.

[quade 4]

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>Mice have feet. Cats also have feet. Coincidence?

I think not! Chairs have feet too. Therefore chairs = Satan.

Who was it who said;

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And that, my liege, is how we know the earth to be banana-shaped.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[billvon 2,998]

>And that, my liege, is how we know the earth to be banana-shaped.

"That is why we'll always need an army, and may God strike me down were it to be otherwise."

(ZAP)

"Come on! Don't stand there gawping like you've never seen the Hand of God before!"

[Shotgun 1]

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Chairs have feet too. Therefore chairs = Satan.

Hmm, I seem to recall you having feet as well.

[Stumpy 284]

so do witches

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[ExAFO 0]

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so do witches

Which weigh the same as a duck.

Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.

[Stumpy 284]

and float. what else floats?

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[ExAFO 0]

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and float. what else floats?

Bread.

Apples.

Very small rocks!

Cider!

Gravy!

Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.

[Stumpy 284]

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[Shotgun 1]

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what else floats?

Cranberries.