Evolution - Satan's biggest brilliant and magnificent plan !!

[billvon 3,009]

>It's bad logic to assume something came from nothing, exploded,
>and became everything.

Before we understood meteors, we'd assume that they came from nowhere, exploded, and created whole new landscapes, lakes and rivers. Now that we understand them, we don't claim that craters are "the hand of God smiting X, Y and Z." We know that they're just meteors. That's not bad logic, that's science learning more about our world and how it came to be.

[pajarito 0]

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Before we understood meteors, we'd assume that they came from nowhere

I think the secular scientific community still does. Otherwise, where did their matter originate? I understand what I was taught. I just don't buy that it just appeared from nothing and became everything.

[beowulf 1]

Just explaining things by saying God made it that way stunts people's intelectual growth. It doesn't allow for questioning or trying to understand the world. In my opinion Religion breeds ignorance.

[quade 4]

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Before we understood meteors, we'd assume that they came from nowhere

I think the secular scientific community still does. Otherwise, where did their matter originate? I understand what I was taught. I just don't buy that it just appeared from nothing and became everything.

Then perhaps a class on quantum physics is in order?

Matter appears and disappears ALL the time.

There's nothing special about the process. If it happens experimentally and repeatably in a lab, then why is it so far fetched to believe it happens on a cosmic scale?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[pajarito 0]

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Matter appears and disappears ALL the time.

There's nothing special about the process. If it happens experimentally and repeatably in a lab, then why is it so far fetched to believe it happens on a cosmic scale?

The Law of Conservation of Matter: Matter is not created or destroyed but only changes form.

[billvon 3,009]

>I think the secular scientific community still does.

Both the secular and religious scientific community thinks they come from unusual solar orbits that happen to intersect the earth occasionally (fortunately not too often.)

>I just don't buy that it just appeared from nothing and became everything.

Happens all the time, even today. Particles pop into existence and are annhiliated. You can demonstrate this in a lab. (Google Casimir effect.)

[Darius11 12]

Here is Proof

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=altf2rl5zMc

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[wmw999 2,461]

Somehow, a single post that combines evolution, speaker's corner, youtube, and the word "proof" seems to be somewhat magical

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[pajarito 0]

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So the writer believes that God did not infuse scientific facts into the minds of the OT writers

The Bible isn't a science book. That's not its purpose. However, scientific ideas are present in the Bible:

Science And The Bible
The Bible and Earth's Free-float in Space
The Bible spoke of the earth's free float in space (1500 B.C.): "He . . . hangs the earth upon nothing" (Job 26:7).

The Scriptures Speak of an Invisible Structure
Only in recent years has science discovered that everything we see is composed of things that we cannot see, invisible atoms. In Hebrews 11:3, written 2,000 years ago, Scripture tells us that the "things which are seen were not made of things which do appear."

The Bible Reveals that the Earth is Round
The Scriptures tell us that the earth is round: "It is he that sits upon the circle of the earth" (Isaiah 40:22). The word translated "circle" here is the Hebrew word chuwg, which is also translated "circuit" or "compass" (depending on the context). That is, it indicates something spherical, rounded, or arched, not something that is flat or square. The book of Isaiah was written sometime between 740 and 680 B.C. This is at least 300 years before Aristotle suggested, in his book On the Heavens, that the earth might be a sphere. It was another 2,000 years later (at a time when science believed that the earth was flat) that the Scriptures inspired Christopher Columbus to sail around the world.

The Bible and the Science of Oceanography
Matthew Maury (1806-1873) is considered the father of oceanography. He noticed the expression "paths of the sea" in Psalm 8:8 (written 2,800 years ago) and said, "If God said there are paths in the sea, I am going to find them." Maury then took God at His word and went looking for these paths, and we are indebted to his discovery of the warm and cold continental currents. His book on oceanography remains a basic text on the subject and is still used in universities.

The Bible and Radio Waves
God asked Job a very strange question in 1500 B.C. He asked, "Can you send lightnings, that they may go, and say to you, Here we are?" (Job 38:35). This appears to be a scientifically ludicrous statement that light can be sent, and then manifest itself in speech. But did you know that all electromagnetic radiation, from radio waves to x-rays, travels at the speed of light? This is why you can have instantaneous wireless communication with someone on the other side of the earth. The fact that light could be sent and then manifest itself in speech wasn't discovered by science until 1864 (3,300 years later), when "British scientist James Clerk Maxwell suggested that electricity and light waves were two forms of the same thing" (Modern Century Illustrated Encyclopedia).

The Bible and Entropy
Three different places in the Bible (Isaiah 51:6; Psalm 102:25,26; and Hebrews 1:11) indicate that the earth is wearing out. This is what the Second Law of Thermodynamics (the Law of Increasing Entropy) states: that in all physical processes, every ordered system over time tends to become more disordered. Everything is running down and wearing out as energy is becoming less and less available for use. That means the universe will eventually "wear out" to the extent that (theoretically speaking) there will be a "heat death" and therefore no more energy available for use. This wasn't discovered by science until recently, but the Bible states it in concise terms.

The Bible and the Water Cycle
The Scriptures inform us, "All the rivers run into the sea; yet the sea is not full; unto the place from whence the rivers come, there they return again" (Ecclesiastes 1:7). This statement alone may not seem profound. But, when considered with other biblical passages, it becomes all the more remarkable. For example, the Mississippi River dumps approximately 518 billion gallons of water every 24 hours into the Gulf of Mexico. Where does all that water go? And that's just one of thousands of rivers. The answer lies in the hydrologic cycle, so well brought out in the Bible.

Ecclesiastes 11:3 states that "if the clouds be full of rain, they empty themselves upon the earth." Look at the Bible�s concise words in Amos 9:6: "He . . . calls for the waters of the sea, and pours them out upon the face of the earth." The idea of a complete water cycle was not fully understood by science until the seventeenth century. However, more than two thousand years prior to the discoveries of Pierre Perrault, Edme Mariotte, Edmund Halley, and others, the Scriptures clearly spoke of a water cycle.

The Bible and the First Law of Thermodynamics
The Scriptures say, "Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them" (Genesis 2:1). The original Hebrew uses the past definite tense for the verb "finished," indicating an action completed in the past, never again to occur. The creation was "finished", once and for all. That is exactly what the First Law of Thermodynamics says. This law (often referred to as the Law of the Conservation of Energy and/or Mass) states that neither matter nor energy can be either created or destroyed.

It was because of this Law that Sir Fred Hoyle�s "Steady-State" (or "Continuous Creation") Theory was discarded. Hoyle stated that at points in the universe called "irtrons," matter (or energy) was constantly being created. But, the First Law states just the opposite. Indeed, there is no "creation" ongoing today. It is "finished" exactly as the Bible states.

The Bible and Ship Dimensions
In Genesis 6, God gave Noah the dimensions of the 1.5 million cubic foot ark he was to build. In 1609 at Hoorn in Holland, a ship was built after that same pattern (30:5:3), revolutionizing ship-building. By 1900 every large ship on the high seas was inclined toward the proportions of the ark (verified by "Lloyd's Register of Shipping" in the World Almanac).

The Bible and Meteorological Laws
The Scriptures describe a "cycle" of air currents two thousand years before scientists discovered them: "The wind goes toward the south, and turns about unto the north; it whirls about continually, and the wind returns again according to his circuits" (Ecclesiastes 1:6). We now know that air around the earth turns in huge circles, clockwise in one hemisphere and counter-clockwise in the other.

The Bible and Science
"In antiquity and in what is called the Dark Ages, men did not know what they now know about humanity and the cosmos. They did not know the lock but they possessed they key, which is God. Now many have excellent descriptions of the lock, but they have lost the key. The proper solution is union between religion and science. We should be owners of the lock and the key. The fact is that as science advances, it discovers what was said thousands of years ago in the Bible." Richard Wurmbrand, Proofs of God's Existence

[pajarito 0]

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Both the secular and religious scientific community thinks they come from unusual solar orbits that happen to intersect the earth occasionally (fortunately not too often.)

Where they hang out or how they get near us is not what I was talking about.

[Andy9o8 2]

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there are a number of vastly different theories on how life began on this planet. At best, they are educated guesses.

Utter nonsense.

Your belief in a deity is not threatened by the fact of evolution. Why you let what seems to be an intelligent, educated, analytical mind surrender itself to irrational denial on this subject is beyond me.

[rehmwa 2]

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Just explaining things by saying God made it that way stunts people's intelectual growth. It doesn't allow for questioning or trying to understand the world. In my opinion Religion breeds ignorance.

really? I see a lot of questioning here right now.

apathy breeds ignorance. So if someone is apathetic or lazy and uses religion as a crutch, then I agree. But I would not grossly generalize per your statement.

Religion has always tried to apply some type of explanation for the unexplained. as in all theories, they are challenged. And, in some cases, we have enough smarts and good enough measuring sticks to then come up with better theories.

I'd like to see how good of theories you'd have come up with for, example - gravity, with the resources and education available a couple thousand years ago. Frankly, I hear equivalent stupid stuff about how things work when 3 or 4 guys in a garage get together and talk. Those 3 guys have way more education and experience than many of the ancient scholars.

At worst, religion provides a list of unexplained phenomena that should be examined periodically to see if we are able to figure out. Yet. If not, keep the list and try again in a hundred years

The abuse we see isn't about religion, it's about political and power (ab)using religion (i.e., organized church) that tries to stifle growth. (Don't you see the same thing being exercised in the DFL and RNC?)

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Darius11 12]

you forgot south park.

I am very disappointed in you Wendy.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[SpeedRacer 1]

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"The Scripture does indeed supply legitimate conclusions on religious matters. But those conclusions are not reached easily and are seldom found in one pointed quote. And as for answers to scientific questions, the Bible is not really the place to look for them. The science of the Bible writers was primitive, and it is doubtful God thought to accelerate human knowledge in this field by infusing scientific facts into the mind of the sacred authors. People cannot make of Scripture a weapon to use superficially against all those with whom they wish to disagree (Ibid, p. 1373)"

So the writer believes that God did not infuse scientific facts into the minds of the OT writers, but that he did infuse religious facts into them. Why the one and not the other?

Um, because it's a religious book, not a science book.

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[quade 4]

Please stop just posting tracts you've copied and pasted from other places. It's pointless.

http://www.livingwaters.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=122

Please speak with your own voice on the subject. Quote relevant material, but simply copying and pasting other people's works ad nauseum is pointless.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[pajarito 0]

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Please stop just posting tracts you've copied and pasted from other places. It's pointless.

You'll just have to ban me if you're not going to allow me to post what I want to within the forum rules. If that's the case then so be it...

Added: By the way, It wasn't my intent to pass that along as if it was my own. I don't do that. If you don't like it, just say you don't like it. That's your choice. I don't care either way.

Added: Also, the 2 links in my sig line point to everything available on livingwaters.com including the book where that came from.

[jakee 1,501]

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Um, because it's a religious book, not a science book.

I thought it was supposed to be a book of truth?

Do you believe god inspired the authors of the bible, specifically the OT?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[quade 4]

It is a barrier to -actual- communication.

I'm not going to ban you, but it's just pointless to do what you've been doing.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[NCclimber 0]

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there are a number of vastly different theories on how life began on this planet. At best, they are educated guesses.

Utter nonsense.

Deja Vu -

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Do you exclude the possiblity that life began from the lifeless primordial soup?

There is evidence suggesting that that is not an unreasonable hypothesis.

But not much.

Oh, please.
It's actually painful to hear intelligent people say that.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2498808#2498808

[pajarito 0]

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It is a barrier to -actual- communication.

I'm not going to ban you, but it's just pointless to do what you've been doing.

And that is your opinion. I'm sorry if mine offends you but that won't stop me from expressing it.

[jakee 1,501]

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The Scriptures Speak of an Invisible Structure
Only in recent years has science discovered that everything we see is composed of things that we cannot see, invisible atoms. In Hebrews 11:3, written 2,000 years ago, Scripture tells us that the "things which are seen were not made of things which do appear."

Bullshit. How does that one phrase possibly describe the existence of atoms?

For a real ancient version of atomic theory read Lucretius "On the Nature of the Universe", published 2,061 years ago.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[SpeedRacer 1]

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Um, because it's a religious book, not a science book.

I thought it was supposed to be a book of truth?

Do you believe god inspired the authors of the bible, specifically the OT?

Yes I do. And yes, the Bible is a book of truth about spiritual matters.

The Bible, however, is completely worthless when it comes to explaining how to build a nuclear fusion reactor though. Evidently the Bible was not written for that purpose.

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[jakee 1,501]

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Yes I do. And yes, the Bible is a book of truth about spiritual matters.

In dealing with the creator of the universe spiritual matters include at least a brief outline of how he did it. Would you dispute that the writers of genesis literally belived its story?

If god inspired it why did he make it so wrong? Not simply short on detail, but actually wrong?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[billvon 3,009]

Right, and physics books make points about morality.

Working together - Prompt nuclear fusion can only occur in greater-than-critical-mass assemblies. So people working together can do a lot more than people working separately.

Strong nuclear force - if two nucleons repel each other (due to being of similar charge) they will tend to remain apart. But if you can force them together, sometimes they will bond; the strong nuclear force will come into play. So if you can keep someone close, a bond will develop.

Opposites attract - opposite charges on particles will cause an attraction between them. So it's perfectly natural for completely opposite people to be attracted to each other.

Now, despite these similarities, physics books make terrible books on morality, and if you tried to claim that "we should annhiliate all that oppose us just as matter annihilates antimatter" you'd be basing decisions on some very silly justifications. Similarly, if you try to claim that we can't have descended from animals, because god said we were created before cattle, you'd be using some very faulty premises. Trying to use a book on morality to "prove" science is as silly as using a book on science to "prove" morality.

[SpeedRacer 1]

It is correct: God created the universe. The Creation story in Genesis came through the Bible writers within a context that they could understand. The Bible writers were inspired by God, they weren't taking dictation from God.

The writings in the Bible are divinely inspired, but they were not written in a vacuum. They were written down by human beings who occupied a particular culture. That particular culture had a very primitive level of scientific development.

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