"Suffolk Ripper"

[orribolollie 0]

well..anyhow lets not forget they werent so much criminals as murder victims!

[Butters 0]

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You do not have to understand to disapprove. I don't understand why some people do some things (and sometimes they don't either) and yet I can and still disapprove of them sometimes

Then for you ignorance is truely bliss!

I had a friend who did something stupid. When asked why he stated, "because I felt like it". I didn't understand, I did disapprove, and I don't consider myself ignorant. (Yes, ignorance is bliss, but I'm not bliss, and I'm not ignorant.)

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[rehmwa 2]

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well..anyhow lets not forget they werent so much criminals as murder victims!

So you are tired of this tangent?

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[orribolollie 0]

Nahh..im actually just really sick (like physically)..have had flu and now tonsilitus the last twelve god damn bored and pissed off days..hence the forum assaults.

Everynow and then I just crash....but woe be tied when i return to full strength.

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[orribolollie 0]

No drugs, no need to be on streets. Simple

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Agreed! So simple how come the police just cant manage that simple thing?

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[Amazon 7]

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The terms ain't politically correct but there's nothing politically correct about being a whore, and I should damn well hope there's a stigma about being a whore.

And how many sexual partners have you had????

[billvon 3,076]

Your last warning.

[dorbie 0]

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These are truely desperate people; if you have no empathy at least be thankful that your life was so very different. Fucked daily by freaks then strangled. Awful.

I do have empathy for them but I have little tolerance for people who want to change the language to destigmatize prostitution, something that can make the problem worse. They chose to be fucked daily by strangers for the money the freaks gave them, truly awful behavior.

[dorbie 0]

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The terms ain't politically correct but there's nothing politically correct about being a whore, and I should damn well hope there's a stigma about being a whore.

And how many sexual partners have you had????

I've never charged anyone for sex, which it the issue at hand.

[Michele 1]

Maybe that's the issue to you, Dorbie, but to me, the issue is that women are being murdered. No one deserves that, irrespective of their life or "job". No one deserves to be killed. That is the issue at hand...not that the oldest profession in the world is still alive and well. We know that, it's happening all over. But there is a serial murderer out there, who should not be less hated, no less vilified, no less hunted because he targets women who are prostitutes.

Once these women were babies. They were sisters, mothers, daughters, aunties. They were alive...and now they are not. That's the issue. You might think it's about paying someone for sex; but really, it's about victimizing women.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[dorbie 0]

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Maybe that's the issue to you, Dorbie, but to me, the issue is that women are being murdered. No one deserves that, irrespective of their life or "job". No one deserves to be killed. That is the issue at hand...not that the oldest profession in the world is still alive and well. We know that, it's happening all over. But there is a serial murderer out there, who should not be less hated, no less vilified, no less hunted because he targets women who are prostitutes.

Once these women were babies. They were sisters, mothers, daughters, aunties. They were alive...and now they are not. That's the issue. You might think it's about paying someone for sex; but really, it's about victimizing women.

Ciels-
Michele

That's an issue, and a legitimate one, but does not preclude other issues raised by this thread. If you've been following the thread you'll know that people are objecting to the use of the word "prostitute" to describe whores. Women being murdered does not convey special privileges on anyone to redefine our language.

[orribolollie 0]

But there is a serial murderer out there, who should not be less hated, no less vilified, no less hunted because he targets women who are prostitutes.

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That really is the crux of this matter.

That is why respect (and Im not talking about being PC) should be used regarding the dead women and utmost distain (sp?) towards their killer.

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[Michele 1]

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If you've been following the thread you'll know that people are objecting to the use of the word "prostitute" to describe whores. Women being murdered does not convey special privileges on anyone to redefine our language.

Dorbie, that's secondary to women being killed. It's not the issue, no-one is trying to define the way you use words. Perhaps what they're suggesting is that no-one deserves to be murdered..."whores" or not. Perseveration on the words described is nothing more than fluff and distracting from the issue - women are being targeted, and murdered.

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That is why respect (and Im not talking about being PC) should be used regarding the dead women and utmost distain (sp?) towards their killer.

As it will be from me. No one deserves to be killed...and the killer deserves our utter disdain, as well as our anger and hatred directed towards him and not towards his victims.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[dorbie 0]

Lot's of things are secondary to women being murdered but the world doesn't stop for it. I didn't imagine people attempting to change the language, someone else suggested these words were unacceptable using these crimes as an opportunity to foist their PC agenda on our society.

Women prostitutes are being targeted and murdered, that is pertinent information to anyone who might be genuinely concerned about these crimes. It is VITAL to get that fact out there, and downright irresponsible to mince words over it.

Saying the killer deserves our utter disdain isn't really saying anything, almost nobody would disagree, and nobody is directing hatred towards the victims by characterizing them accurately.

[tbrown 26]

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But that's also beside the point as well. The victims are young women, whether or not they work in the sex trade.

I think the fact that these women were prostitutes is very relevant and it should not be hidden. All indications are that the killer specifically targeted prostitutes. In fact, according to Skynews, The Guardian is claiming that police are giving prostitutes money to keep them off the streets until the killer is apprehended.

Prostitutes present more opportunity as targets because of the nature of their trade. But it has also been the case, from the original Jack the Ripper to the Seattle Green River killer, that other women have been attacked and killed as well. There is still an unfortunate tendency for some people to look the other way at murdered hookers, as well as when they're raped, beaten, abused, or otherwise enslaved on a daily basis. But at least in this present case, the police appear to be taking the real issue of a serial killer seriously. Believe me, this guy's not going to restrain himself simply because he discovers his target is NOT a hooker after all.

(And to the PC crowd, I'm using the male pronoun as serial killers are almost entirely male, exceptions like Eileen Wuornos aside.)

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[Michele 1]

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Women prostitutes are being targeted and murdered, that is pertinent information to anyone who might be genuinely concerned about these crimes. It is VITAL to get that fact out there, and downright irresponsible to mince words over it.

Saying the killer deserves our utter disdain isn't really saying anything, almost nobody would disagree, and nobody is directing hatred towards the victims by characterizing them accurately.

Perhaps I've misread some statements in this thread, wherein some indication was made that less respect is accorded these women because they were prostitutes; and because of the less respect accorded, the aspect of "dispensible" comes to the fore. If I've misread anyone, I apologize. However, I don't think I have.

Prostitutes are easier targets than, say, me. They earn their living in an environment that is dangerous, and because of the transient nature of the business, they can go missing and no-one really realizes it for a time. This allows the killer two opportunities; he can get the woman into a position that they cannot fight back, and then have some time to dispose of the body without anyone realizing the prostitute is even missing. Time is on the side of the killer in this case...and in most murder cases.

But the refrain I've heard is that because they are prostitutes, they've chosen to put themselves in danger and thus deserve whatever they get...and that's wrong. Just wrong.

Again, these women were women before they were prostitutes...and they were human before that. And that means they get all the respect a human being deserves. And they'll get that from me.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[BannanaGirl 0]

Absoluetly 100% spot on.

The sad fact is that there even seems to be what are intelligent people have no ability to empathise how a situation can escalate such as it has for these women. It is easy to to say "not me". Quite the cop out really.

This thread has got lost in the rather silly and irrelevant war of words over the titles of these women. Fact is they are dead. They were dead before that mother fucker laid a hand on them.

I find this very sad.

[Erroll 80]

CNN is reporting that the police have arrested a suspect.

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The full statement read out by Gull was as follows: "Detectives investigating the murder of five women in the Ipswich area have today arrested a man.
"The 37-year-old man was arrested at his home address in Trimley, near Felixstowe, at approximately 7.20 a.m. this morning.
"He has been arrested on suspicion of murdering all five women, Gemma Adams, Tania Nicol, Anneli Alderton, Paula Clennell and Annette Nicholls.

[Skyrad 0]

Here you go Scoop

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Skyrad 0]

http://www.allwomencount.net/EWC%20Sex%20Workers/SexWorkIndex.htm

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Tonto 1]

I was watching an interview on Sky last night too, and it seems the terms "prostitute" and "sex worker" were used interchangably, as they are in the link you provided.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[Scoop 0]

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Here you go Scoop

LMAO

[rehmwa 2]

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Dorbie, that's secondary to women being killed.

his debate isn't primary or secondary to the other issue. It's a completely separate tangent to the discusssion. I don't see why you guys are trying to tie the two together. They can be discusses as separate issues as intended.

you guys are picking on Dorbie and all he was trying to do was discuss how people do try to redefine terms to change or mitigate impressions of topics that might actually need clarity. Some honestly consider that diluting the language is a serious threat to clarity of understanding and can be a barrier to improving the real lives of other humans by downplaying descriptions that create a direct and visceral response.

Most people mean well, but this site really tends to ascribe bad intentions to well meaning posters..

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[StreetScooby 5]

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but you can determine more long lasting corrections if you understand. As long as we, first, always make sure the individual is responsible for their personal actions (no matter what excuses they have, no matter how heartbreaking their story).

This is a bit off-topic, but I felt compelled to put some input here.

Rehmwa, you were privelaged to serve in the nuclear navy. I graduated at the top of my engineering class, and was invited by Rickover to serve. I wanted to, badly. Actually went to a Navy recruiter after I finished my Masters degree to sign up. The recruiter looked me up, there I was on file, and we were ready to go. Then, he asked me if I had any "physical defects". I said yes, I am deaf in one ear. Sorry, that was a no go.

How did I become deaf in one ear? There's a very good chance that my mother did that to me. See, my mother is a fundamentalist holy roller in the deep south. I figure I've been badly beaten hundreds of times by a belt, by her, because that's one of the ways in which she felt Jesus. She used to actually foam at the mouth while she beat me. Too boot, I was a goody-two-shoes kind of guy. Never really understood why I was being beat.

Some people actually have had it worse than me in this life. I've managed to do ok so far, but I have my issues (...my adrenaline system works pretty well). I can easily see where there are others that have issues and can't keep from falling off the side of the cliff. Constant psychic pain is very difficult to deal with, especially when it's hard wired into your very being.

I agree with you completely that we are responsible for our actions. But, as Newton said, there is action and reaction. Sometimes, actions are really reactions to things that happened long ago. That's a simple statement of fact, IMO.

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edit: let me clarify - 'understanding' is useful in making long term preventative corrections so others don't fall into known traps. But, it is in no way an excuse for actions that an individual has ALREADY committed. It's best to judge others by their actions, not by their stories.....

To reiterate my point, sometimes actions are really reactions. I'm not condoning violence. Absolutely not. But, life can be very difficult to those less fortunate than ourselves.

We are all engines of karma

[rehmwa 2]

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o reiterate my point, sometimes actions are really reactions. I'm not condoning violence. Absolutely not. But, life can be very difficult to those less fortunate than ourselves.

so very true. but we have no other yardstick to truly assess others except by their actions. All else is too subjective and that way lies some really messed up social values.

I refuse to give a pass for a killer just because they had a hard life, no more than I'd give a pass for a killer if they had a privileged life. If this "suffolk Ripper" had the same difficult background as the stereotype of the these prostitutes, does he deserve a lighter sentence than if the killer was a nobleman instead? Vice versa?

once the crime is committed, it's too late. Again, knowing the subjective issues is needed to make sure the criminal has a chance to not repeat the crime or so we can ensure others don't do the same thing. We have to react to the actions no matter what. We then treat based on the subjective stuff to try to head off future repeats before they happen.

It's not heartless, not by any means

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants