masterrig 1 #26 December 14, 2006 QuoteQuote they take good jobs away from U.S. Citizens for lower pay and etc. More reading on the subject. It's ill-informed remarks like the above, imo, that characterize the anti-immigration position. _______________________________ I read what you posted. Once again, the author is confusing 'legal' immigrants with 'illegal' immigrants. I'm referring to 'ILLEGAL' immigrants. I wish to God, folks would get that straight. Get your facts straight then, come back and we'll discus it. Chuck Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #27 December 14, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuote they take good jobs away from U.S. Citizens for lower pay and etc. More reading on the subject. It's ill-informed remarks like the above, imo, that characterize the anti-immigration position. _______________________________ I read what you posted. Once again, the author is confusing 'legal' immigrants with 'illegal' immigrants. I'm referring to 'ILLEGAL' immigrants. I wish to God, folks would get that straight. Get your facts straight then, come back and we'll discus it. Chuck Chuck Come on, Chuck. You know and I know most of the arguments made on behalf of illegal aliens don't hold water if you separate them from the arguments for all immigrants. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nathaniel 0 #28 December 14, 2006 Quote most of the arguments made on behalf of illegal aliens don't hold water if you separate them from the arguments for all immigrants. Apart from the statutory definition (and ramifications such as taxes), what makes an illegal immigrant different from a legal one? Is there any difference? Would the difference evaporate if we abolished artificial immigration restrictions?My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #29 December 14, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote they take good jobs away from U.S. Citizens for lower pay and etc. More reading on the subject. It's ill-informed remarks like the above, imo, that characterize the anti-immigration position. _______________________________ I read what you posted. Once again, the author is confusing 'legal' immigrants with 'illegal' immigrants. I'm referring to 'ILLEGAL' immigrants. I wish to God, folks would get that straight. Get your facts straight then, come back and we'll discus it. Chuck Chuck Come on, Chuck. You know and I know most of the arguments made on behalf of illegal aliens don't hold water if you separate them from the arguments for all immigrants. ________________________________ I wasn't trying to be 'ugly' about this, at all. I just get upset when I read or hear some of the crap that is written or in the news, about the subject. I've seen things first-hand and listened to folks. Most of the arguments for the 'illegals' is mostly 'pie-in-the-sky' and bleedin' heart thinking. The fact of the matter is, we have a problem that is over 40-yrs. old and just now, are we wanting to do something about it. We've had laws on the books to try to control illegal immigration but, in recent years, we've been saddled with 'catch and release'. Oh, I'm trying to keep it 'real', too! Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narcimund 0 #30 December 14, 2006 QuoteI'm referring to 'ILLEGAL' immigrants. I wish to God, folks would get that straight. Get your facts straight then, come back and we'll discus it If you're only referring to 'ILLEGAL' immigrants, why did you say this in your previous post? QuoteCheck-out the good paying jobs, such as construction and the like. Then, come-back and tell me how many of those high-paid workers are Hispanic! First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nathaniel 0 #31 December 14, 2006 Quote Ever heard of the "anti-coolie act"? Blatantly racist, limited in scope. KPBS (damn liberals) Quote This tsunami of immigrants produced a backlash of racism, mostly aimed as Asians. California led the anti-Asian charge in 1872. Its Anti-Coolie Act was both insultingly named and ineffective. It was completely ignored by the railroads, the main employer of Chinese labor. Congress soon piled on by passing the Chinese Exclusion Act and the Immigration Act of 1917, which excluded virtually all Asians and Pacific Islanders. Quote Are you familiar with Castle Garden or Ellis Island? Did not substantially limit immigration, mainly processed immigrants. Ellis Island Quote Only two percent of the arriving immigrants were excluded from entry. The two main reasons why an immigrant would be excluded were if a doctor diagnosed that the immigrant had a contagious disease that would endanger the public health or if a legal inspector thought the immigrant was likely to become a public charge or an illegal contract laborer. My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #32 December 14, 2006 QuoteQuote most of the arguments made on behalf of illegal aliens don't hold water if you separate them from the arguments for all immigrants. Apart from the statutory definition (and ramifications such as taxes), what makes an illegal immigrant different from a legal one? Is there any difference? Would the difference evaporate if we abolished artificial immigration restrictions? One group came to this this country through legal channels. They met specific criteria and respected our laws to gain access. The other completely disregarded the process. All industrialized nations have immigration laws. These laws exist to protect the general welfare of citizens. Look at it this way. If you have a home, that you pay for and maintain, do you have the right to say who is allowed to come into your home? Do you have the right to attend college courses for which you have not paid tuition? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nathaniel 0 #33 December 14, 2006 Quote Do you have the right to attend college courses for which you have not paid tuition? That's an interesting analogy...most people do not pay the full cost of their tuitions, we consider it a societal benefit to have educated people. We subsidize it in numerous ways, directly through taxes research grants etc. Some schools have endowments that pay significant amounts of tuition for their students (Swarthmore was an example I read about recently). Becker and Posner (two of the greatest economists alive) wrote about the cost of college education on their blog recently. But what do they know... So yes...that's a great analogy. I think people should continue go to college without paying the full cost of their tuition. Import them, educate them and make them citizens. Watch them make our nation thrive My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,067 #34 December 14, 2006 >The fact of the matter is, we have a problem that is over 40-yrs. old . . . Right, but the problem is partly of our making. If we had the equivalent of an Ellis Island by the border (which excluded people only for specific reasons, like crime and health issues) then presto! - the number of illegal immigrants would drop tremendously. Any attempt to solve the problem must have two parts to it: 1) Make it much easier for people who want to come here and work come here 2) Make it much harder for people to illegally enter The problem today is not that we have a lot of immigrants. The problem is that we have a lot of ILLEGAL immigrants. If we came up with a way for them to legally work/pay taxes/go to school we'd all be better off. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #35 December 14, 2006 I absolutely love how your post pretty well completely agrees with masterrig yet comes off as if you are disputing him and who cares if the problem is "partly of our making" - does that mean the law isn't applicable until it's perfect? sorry most things are in-the-making in this world ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #36 December 14, 2006 Quotesorry most things are in-the-making in this world I think you have the "imigrunt" thread confused with the evolution thread.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Enrique 0 #37 December 14, 2006 QuoteThey booed during the National Anthem and U.S. flags were held upside down. Although I do not justify it, I don't think that holding a flag upside down is half as bad as wearing your own Country's flag in underwear, bikinis, and just about any other object. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #38 December 14, 2006 QuoteQuoteThey booed during the National Anthem and U.S. flags were held upside down. Although I do not justify it, I don't think that holding a flag upside down is half as bad as wearing your own Country's flag in underwear, bikinis, and just about any other object. That depends entirely who is wearing it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #39 December 14, 2006 QuoteQuotesorry most things are in-the-making in this world I think you have the "imigrunt" thread confused with the evolution thread. I think you need to sit down and finish your whiskey, mister ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #40 December 14, 2006 QuoteI think you need to sit down and finish your whiskey, mister I must really be slacking. I've not even started my whisk(e)y rum yet.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Enrique 0 #41 December 14, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteThey booed during the National Anthem and U.S. flags were held upside down. Although I do not justify it, I don't think that holding a flag upside down is half as bad as wearing your own Country's flag in underwear, bikinis, and just about any other object. That depends entirely who is wearing it. I totally agree! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #42 December 14, 2006 QuoteQuoteI think you need to sit down and finish your whiskey, mister I must really be slacking. I've not even started my whisk(e)y rum yet. Mmmmmm, whiskyrum ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,067 #43 December 14, 2006 >and who cares if the problem is "partly of our making" - does >that mean the law isn't applicable until it's perfect? Not at all. Just means we should fix it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #44 December 14, 2006 Quote>and who cares if the problem is "partly of our making" - does >that mean the law isn't applicable until it's perfect? Not at all. Just means we should fix it. agreed ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #45 December 14, 2006 QuoteQuoteI'm referring to 'ILLEGAL' immigrants. I wish to God, folks would get that straight. Get your facts straight then, come back and we'll discus it If you're only referring to 'ILLEGAL' immigrants, why did you say this in your previous post? QuoteCheck-out the good paying jobs, such as construction and the like. Then, come-back and tell me how many of those high-paid workers are Hispanic! __________________________ As it happens, the majority of illegals are Hispanic. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #46 December 14, 2006 QuoteAs it happens, the majority of illegals are Hispanic. Perhaps, but don't confuse that with "the majority of Hispanics are illegal", because that just ain't so. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narcimund 0 #47 December 14, 2006 QuoteQuoteAs it happens, the majority of illegals are Hispanic. Perhaps, but don't confuse that with "the majority of Hispanics are illegal", because that just ain't so. Oh! If only more than 20% of people could follow really simple logic like this. 80% of all misunderstandings, fighting, and killing would just go away. An intelligence pill would be the greatest single improvement to humanity's chance of long term survival. First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #48 December 14, 2006 The people who needed it the most would never make it past the child-proof cap. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #49 December 14, 2006 Quote>The fact of the matter is, we have a problem that is over 40-yrs. old . . . Right, but the problem is partly of our making. If we had the equivalent of an Ellis Island by the border (which excluded people only for specific reasons, like crime and health issues) then presto! - the number of illegal immigrants would drop tremendously. Any attempt to solve the problem must have two parts to it: 1) Make it much easier for people who want to come here and work come here 2) Make it much harder for people to illegally enter The problem today is not that we have a lot of immigrants. The problem is that we have a lot of ILLEGAL immigrants. If we came up with a way for them to legally work/pay taxes/go to school we'd all be better off. _______________________________________ You have some good ideas! I do believe, we need to get control of our borders and get a better 'fix' on who enters. The way it is now, anyone can cross into this country, assimilate and get lost in the crowd. As we know, we have acquired a great number of criminals from across the border. We've also gotten some good, hard workers. We are also, realizing 'new' cases of diseases that we had wiped-out, years ago. It's kinda' funny. You mentioned 'making it easier for those who want to work to come here'. The politicians, want to make it harder for them to enter 'legally'. Where's the 'happy medium'? Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #50 December 14, 2006 QuoteQuoteAs it happens, the majority of illegals are Hispanic. Perhaps, but don't confuse that with "the majority of Hispanics are illegal", because that just ain't so. ___________________________________ With fake papers, it is hard to tell. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
